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How much stand up do you guys do? My gym incorporates a lot of judo/wrestling into our classes even at the beginner level.
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Oct 11, 2017 16:01
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Seltzer posted:How much stand up do you guys do? My gym incorporates a lot of judo/wrestling into our classes even at the beginner level. Not enough. It's my top criticism of my club, at least among things which we can solve. We have had several people do their first roll starting from standing on the competition mat, which is a bad thing. Whenever I run a class, which happens from time to time, we do stand up and transitions from the standing game to the ground game.
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Oct 11, 2017 16:05
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CommonShore posted:What kind of stuff gets taught in a BJJ fundamentals class? What are some specific things that beginners could learn to make things safer for them? What could that girl have known to prevent spontaneous deconstructive surgery on her knee? breakfalls, posture, combat base, technical standups, shrimps, bridges, tapping early and often, controlled application of submissions, not sitting on your fukken toes if you've decided inexplicably to knee wrestle. of course you can't cover these all in one day but the fundamentals instructors at my gym stress these things if they're relevant to what is being taught, and all of it is covered over the curriculum iirc. I feel like this works in practice; we have a highly competitive team with people training multiple times a day most days and rarely do we have injuries happen because someone decided to post a limb bearing two human's worth of weight on it or whatever. if people are repeatedly doing dumb poo poo at your gym to get injured it's probably something that should be addressed with the instructors IMO, and you have to be on high alert when rolling w less skilled people. are their hands posted where you're going to sweep them? are they sitting on their toes but not coming forward? are their limbs free to post? are they about to knock heads w anyone nearby?
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Oct 11, 2017 16:07
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CommonShore posted:Not enough. It's my top criticism of my club, at least among things which we can solve. We have had several people do their first roll starting from standing on the competition mat, which is a bad thing. Yeah a majority of my classes have a standup element and breakfalls are drilled. It made me think awhile back at what point does jiu jitsu become submission grappling with jiu jitsu trappings/tradition. Kind of a dumb question but we use whatever grappling techniques are effective at our school and some jiu jitsu moves that are ineffective are shown to make people aware but the deficiencies are pointed out.
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Oct 11, 2017 16:15
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Wangsbig posted:breakfalls, posture, combat base, technical standups, shrimps, bridges, tapping early and often, controlled application of submissions, not sitting on your fukken toes if you've decided inexplicably to knee wrestle. of course you can't cover these all in one day but the fundamentals instructors at my gym stress these things if they're relevant to what is being taught, and all of it is covered over the curriculum iirc. I feel like this works in practice; we have a highly competitive team with people training multiple times a day most days and rarely do we have injuries happen because someone decided to post a limb bearing two human's worth of weight on it or whatever. Gotcha. Yes, we do most of these things regularly, especially those which can serve as warmups, stand-up problems notwithstanding. We have only like 8 blue belts, 4 purple belts, 2 brown belts, and 1 black belt among our active members, so things are skewed pretty heavily toward beginner-friendly content, even in our "intermediate" classes.
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Oct 11, 2017 16:15
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All of our classes start with a warmup which consists of a jog followed by front shoulder rolls, back shoulder rolls, hip escapes, then some stretching typically. The fundamentals class mixes in various drills like hip escape to technical standup with a partner following you down the mat, etc etc. Then they cover the basics of a position, getting to it, maintaining it, proper posture and body positioning, maybe one escape or one attack, drills, and situational sparring.
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Oct 11, 2017 17:32
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Chris Cariaso's gym in SF(formally "fight & fitness", now something else) charges 15 dollars for you first introdcutrory/trial class which I always thought was slightly less than sleezy
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Oct 11, 2017 17:52
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Seems pretty sleazy. Most gyms I know give a one week trial. Some give one month.
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Oct 11, 2017 18:01
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I signed up for bjj this week after trying it a couple of times. I kinda want to do judo instead tbh which they also teach but it doesn't fit my schedule  It's fun though, but I'm absolutely terrible 😥
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Oct 11, 2017 18:22
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I had to watch a youtube video on breakfalling to learn how to do it.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:51
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I'm a big fan of having a beginner's class and a fundamentals class as two different things. Beginner's class is a 3 month cycle of classes that are designed to provide context, help people understand the major positions, and drill a positional hierarchy into them. You'd put breakfalls and safety stuff in here too. Then the fundamental class is once or twice a week, all levels attend it, and it's about mastery of basics. So blues and purples get, say, two classes of advanced basics and two classes of more esoteric stuff each week. When our gym grows a bit more I'm going to try and get that off the ground.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:52
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nickmeister posted:Just popped in to vent a pet peeve of mine: Just tell them every what if/counter is an entirely new position/move and that's not what you're learning/teaching/whatever. Seltzer posted:I usually go for and get a body triangle since I have long strong legs and then fish for an RNC. I'm just really bad at handfighting and they defend pretty well. I've finished it a handful of times but I'm pretty woeful at RNCs. I think part of it is I need to stay tighter and closer which I've been doing and I really just need to think about handfighting smarter I guess. People at my gym really like going for trapping the arm with a leg from the back but since I almost always can safely grab a body triangle I do that since worst case scenario I end up in mount. Here's a great video on hand fighting/positioning from the back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXgzv2Wy9OM
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Oct 12, 2017 03:33
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I'm a big fan of having a beginner's class and a fundamentals class as two different things. Beginner's class is a 3 month cycle of classes that are designed to provide context, help people understand the major positions, and drill a positional hierarchy into them. You'd put breakfalls and safety stuff in here too. Ah yeah. What you're describing as a "Fundamentals" class is much closer to what we offer as our "Beginner's" class. We don't have enough people to do intakes like that - people show up when they show up and we just have higher belts show them the ropes. The head instructor did a cycle of Saturday afternoon "Beginner" classes in the sense you're describing, and like four people showed.
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Oct 12, 2017 04:26
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I'm pretty new to the sport (6 months) and we've got a ufc guy in town for the week and I decided to take the plunge and get a private from him, and I must say although I was really nervous about my skill level going in it was the most rewarding experience I've had so far. He just drilled some fundamental moves and escapes with me in great detail and showed me some tricks and positioning that I had been missing before, and I feel like I gained so much from the 2 hours I had. So basically what I'm saying is if you are a newbie like myself and on the fence about getting a private because you feel like it'll be wasted on someone without great bjj knowledge ignore that inner doubt and go for it.
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Oct 13, 2017 00:03
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flashman posted:I'm pretty new to the sport (6 months) and we've got a ufc guy in town for the week and I decided to take the plunge and get a private from him, and I must say although I was really nervous about my skill level going in it was the most rewarding experience I've had so far. He just drilled some fundamental moves and escapes with me in great detail and showed me some tricks and positioning that I had been missing before, and I feel like I gained so much from the 2 hours I had. So basically what I'm saying is if you are a newbie like myself and on the fence about getting a private because you feel like it'll be wasted on someone without great bjj knowledge ignore that inner doubt and go for it. Who was it?
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Oct 13, 2017 00:05
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Another situational question: when in bottom half with knee shield, I like sitting up and shooting the underhook to the far waist, like setting up the old school sweep, back take, or rolling under if they pressure hard into me. Tonight though one particular lanky guy was whizzering the arm in to threaten the d'arce every time I tried to close space. He wasn't getting the choke but it was frustrating my sweep attempts. I tried to keep my head low and tight to his ribs but he kept getting the hand far enough around my neck to force me to deal with it. Any advice? Edit: I guess something like this seems like a good plan, I'm just reluctant to go to my back again. https://youtu.be/hym3JsDIUQM ihop fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 03:53
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Pinch your underhooking arm into your side so that instead of him blocking your entry, you're controlling his shoulder and unbalancing him upwards. Grab his darcing arm around the wrist with one/either of your hands, then spike his face into the ground by walking your hips underneath him. Hopefully you'll get a sweep but at the very least he'll have to abandon the darce and you can reset into something better while he's floating over the top of you in a compromised position. It can be a bit of a battle sometimes and you will probably have to get use to feeling some discomfort in the position. edit: once you've got the arm, open your chest up to get strong posture, that'll make it real hard for him to choke you, and help angle the sweep correctly. Also, Lucas Leite prefers to use his bottom hand to grab a 'bro handshake' kind of grip and he also kind of pulls on that hand a bit while he sweeps, which might be relevant to you if you're using the Leite-style knee torque. 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 04:15
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If someone can whizzer your underhook it's not a very good underhook, so do a better one. Or just move faster instead of hanging out there
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Oct 14, 2017 04:49
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Edit nah that makes no sense
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Oct 14, 2017 09:53
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After thinking about it for a bit, maybe you should use a high underhook until your body positioning is solid, and then switch to the low one?
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Oct 14, 2017 10:21
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Quick question, a friend has just got fightpass and is interested in watching some top-level no-gi stuff, is there a single fight or fighter from (for example) EBI that stands out?
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Oct 14, 2017 11:07
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Memento posted:Quick question, a friend has just got fightpass and is interested in watching some top-level no-gi stuff, is there a single fight or fighter from (for example) EBI that stands out? Anything Garry Tonon, Gordon Ryan, Eddie Cummings, Gio Martinez, Vagner Rocha or Craig Jones.
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Oct 14, 2017 12:40
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ihop posted:Another situational question: when in bottom half with knee shield, I like sitting up and shooting the underhook to the far waist, like setting up the old school sweep, back take, or rolling under if they pressure hard into me. Tonight though one particular lanky guy was whizzering the arm in to threaten the d'arce every time I tried to close space. He wasn't getting the choke but it was frustrating my sweep attempts. I tried to keep my head low and tight to his ribs but he kept getting the hand far enough around my neck to force me to deal with it. Any advice? Just go to deep half and pop out the back or sweep him to the side where he has his whizzer since he doesn't really have a post.
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Oct 14, 2017 12:43
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Doing newaza at my judo club a lot of the black belts start in the turtle and let the lower belts attack them from there. Would you experienced BJJ guys just wreck them from that position?
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Oct 15, 2017 01:10
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Nierbo posted:Doing newaza at my judo club a lot of the black belts start in the turtle and let the lower belts attack them from there. Would you experienced BJJ guys just wreck them from that position? Out of curiosity what sort of stuff to judo guys do from turtle bottom? I have very limited judo experience but I thought it was sort of used to run out the clock or get stood up by the ref.
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Oct 15, 2017 01:38
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Nierbo posted:Doing newaza at my judo club a lot of the black belts start in the turtle and let the lower belts attack them from there. Would you experienced BJJ guys just wreck them from that position? If they don't know any offensive turtle stuff and just sit there with their hands in their collars, and there aren't any rules beyond don't strike and don't neck crank then yea.
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Oct 15, 2017 01:41
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Dr. Miracle posted:Out of curiosity what sort of stuff to judo guys do from turtle bottom? I have very limited judo experience but I thought it was sort of used to run out the clock or get stood up by the ref. yep The only sub you can really do directly from turtle is a rolling kneebar and that's illegal in judo.
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Oct 15, 2017 01:42
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Mechafunkzilla posted:yep While I think of it, anyone got any good reversals/escapes/ takedowns from turtle? I end up there a decent amount. I've had a look at Eduardo Telles' stuff and it's mostly pretty useful, and my half-guard is ok so I can try to pull that, but I'm always on the lookout for something else. I've started hunting for a low-single type ankle grab takedown, again from the Telles stuff, which I've had some success with as well. I usually get it when they try to walk around in front of my head to switch sides, or if I can trick them into selling out on a front headlock choke that isn't really there and they forget about their legs. Turtle is sort of a 'hobby' position of mine; I mostly drill the fundamental stuff, but it's fun to have something a bit weird to tinker around with at the odd open mat.
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Oct 15, 2017 02:26
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Dr. Miracle posted:While I think of it, anyone got any good reversals/escapes/ takedowns from turtle? I end up there a decent amount. Sit throughs/sit outs are money and will at least grab you a scramble for position if not top. There's a whole host of wrestling maneuvers to get you out of turtle offensively that aren't explored in BJJ for the most part in my experience. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 02:47
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:After thinking about it for a bit, maybe you should use a high underhook until your body positioning is solid, and then switch to the low one? I'll give this a try. In my head it feels like I'll have a difficult time both getting to the high underhook from knee shield and sinking down to the hips once I've got the high hook. I also am having pretty good success off scrambles with a body lock around the waist so I'm more inclined to go straight to the hips when possible. I like the sweep you described above. I've used it before but like you said, that moment before you get the sweep when all their weight is over your chest is not very comfortable. I also like the deep half idea. I don't play that position much but I should and this seems like a good excuse and entry. Edit: judo black belts say they start in turtle to practice from the worst position but really they're just using the position to catch a rest. ihop fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 02:52
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Nierbo posted:Doing newaza at my judo club a lot of the black belts start in the turtle and let the lower belts attack them from there. Would you experienced BJJ guys just wreck them from that position? A judo black belt is going to be extremely good at defending from turtle because as noted above there's no rules incentive for opening up at all. The only attacks from there are via exploiting attacker errors. Keep in mind that when a black belt does that to a lower belt, he's only going to be defending at 30%, because he wants to give the lower belts a chance to try the techniques. If you want to see what a very good jits player does to exploit this tendency, go watch Travis Stevens's matches from the Rio Olympics. He developed an offensive ne waza game specifically to smash people who turtle to stall.
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Oct 15, 2017 02:59
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I'm a BJJ brown belt but I'd say it depends what the rules are. If it's BJJ then ya it's a bit of a waiting game but a very passive, stalling judo guy is going to eventually get got with some kind of transition or attack. It's also interesting because judo forced standup often leaves a hole in guy's game for getting to their feet, another opportunity. With judo rules and newaza timer, very hard to do enough before the reset unless you're really focused on that scenario. Also hard with explosive guys who have prepared to standup from turtle with an attack.
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Oct 15, 2017 03:29
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Used my jiujitsu last night, nothing wild though. A guy being escorted off the premises struggled his way free from a security guy's grip and started swinging at him... one metre in front of me, facing away. Palm-to-palm RNC grip, dragged him backwards and slightly over one of my knees to break his balance. He was compliant after that, security guy replaced his grips, thanked me and dragged him off. It was kind of fun. edit: brevity 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 04:04
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Dr. Miracle posted:While I think of it, anyone got any good reversals/escapes/ takedowns from turtle? I end up there a decent amount. I've had a look at Eduardo Telles' stuff and it's mostly pretty useful, and my half-guard is ok so I can try to pull that, but I'm always on the lookout for something else. I've started hunting for a low-single type ankle grab takedown, again from the Telles stuff, which I've had some success with as well. I usually get it when they try to walk around in front of my head to switch sides, or if I can trick them into selling out on a front headlock choke that isn't really there and they forget about their legs. G-G-G-GRANBY ROLL it's the best, nobody ever knows what you just did and why they're in a front headlock now Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 06:42
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the only downside to the granby roll is that you have to shout "GRANBY ROLL" as you do it
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Oct 15, 2017 06:45
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just lol if you don't shout all your moves like a street fighter character
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Oct 15, 2017 06:50
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Dave Grool posted:just lol if you don't shout all your moves like a street fighter character I prefer to do everything in the tone of Captain Falcon
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Oct 15, 2017 09:27
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Dave Grool posted:just lol if you don't shout all your moves like a street fighter character Shrimp! Shrimp! Try to sort of half turn! Wiggle! Tap! Tap!
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Oct 15, 2017 10:11
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Xguard86 posted:With judo rules and newaza timer, very hard to do enough before the reset unless you're really focused on that scenario. Also hard with explosive guys who have prepared to standup from turtle with an attack. With the new rules, newaza is lasting longer at tournaments which is exposing the fighters who rely on it to force a mate. Refs are allowing newaza to last longer when there is some progress being made, resulting in turtle becoming a victim pose. At my last tournament, I arm-barred the one guy who turtled with waki gatame as he let me crush him into the floor and, applied weight to control, and ripped his arm out. He was upset because the ref would have called mate for not enough action, but he was not aware that refs eased up on this rule for a while. He went to complain to the head ref, who is my sensei, and all he told him was to learn how to fight with the new rules.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:00
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KildarX posted:Sit throughs/sit outs are money and will at least grab you a scramble for position if not top. There's a whole host of wrestling maneuvers to get you out of turtle offensively that aren't explored in BJJ for the most part in my experience. I have been using a sit-out from head to head with a bit of success. How do you go using it when they’re more at your side? It looks as though they’d be able to jump on your back for a rear naked between the sit-out and you spinning around to take turtle top. I mean, I get that you do it quickly and explosively so there isn’t time to grab a choke before you’re turning, but I’m a flabby goon. I mean I guess I’ll just mess around with it, and find my own answer, but you know.
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Oct 17, 2017 07:14
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