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Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Suki.

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Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!



A D1 full of potential night actions that we can discuss and try to plan, you should be in your element here.... shouldn't you?

quote:

I'm going to choose to interpret Quid as charitably as possible as a result. You're saying he's being inconsistent, my read is that he's managed to get into a D1 fight against the wall of text generator and has come out saying stuff that's either going to be misinterpreted or was entirely unintended.

The core logic Quid and I suggest is the same. We want to know what kind of information results generate for us and to not randomly assume things in a game about casting off assumptions.

What am I randomly assuming, YT? "What kind of information" are you thinking you'll get from a track, or a watch, or a stakeout, that is so wildly different from what it says on the tin that I need to check myself?

quote:

Xad asks Quid what Quid might do as a result and I suggest a manner in which to explore the game we're in most efficiently by my interpretation. I can see an argument that says my course of action is inconsistent with Quid's idea of "Not scattering everywhere," but honestly that's a really poor argument, given that only certain actions will place us in a location, so my suggestion of exploring lots of different actions necessarily places fewer people in random locations than your suggestion of staking out everything.

Quid is welcome to refute that course of action, but we're not inconsistent in the way you're suggesting.

At least you've actually suggested something, thank you. I don't see any conflict though between trying to stake out as much as possible, and having other people try different actions. I'm not assuming that everyone has that kind of capability.

As for Quid, I asked him to please demonstrate what he was planning instead, which he has so far declined to do. You honestly don't find his arguments inconsistent or suspicious at ALL? Remember I can only go by what he's deigned to say to me in thread, not whatever big extra chats he must be having with you on the side, it looks like.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


KB I fuckin hope you're watching this so you can swoop in as a vanilla civilian at some point :argh:

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bifauxnen posted:

A D1 full of potential night actions that we can discuss and try to plan, you should be in your element here.... shouldn't you?


Yes it's amazing, I can have a giant argument with you without fear of being voted out. That said in a game with fucktonnes of night actions I'm not placing a vast amount of credit on the way someone phrases an argument d1.

quote:

What am I randomly assuming, YT? "What kind of information" are you thinking you'll get from a track, or a watch, or a stakeout, that is so wildly different from what it says on the tin that I need to check myself?


Yes. We have been told to leave our assumptions at the door. I am doing so until given reason to believe otherwise. It is likely that reason will come with our first night actions.

Notably I've already chosen to do something that is not on the action list I was given and have not been corrected.

quote:

At least you've actually suggested something, thank you. I don't see any conflict though between trying to stake out as much as possible, and having other people try different actions. I'm not assuming that everyone has that kind of capability.

As for Quid, I asked him to please demonstrate what he was planning instead, which he has so far declined to do. You honestly don't find his arguments inconsistent or suspicious at ALL? Remember I can only go by what he's deigned to say to me in thread, not whatever big extra chats he must be having with you on the side, it looks like.

I mean not really? It looks like someone trying to defend a stance by arguing it a bunch of different ways and then having it broken down uncharitably.

That's fine in a game of mafia, but this is fundamentally not mafia. Raising suspicion on someone d1 doesn't matter other than via attempting to influence night actions against that person.

We don't get a flip from doing it and get distracted on a bunch of meaningless arguments that would better be served discussing possible night action plays.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Yorkshire Tea posted:

Yes. We have been told to leave our assumptions at the door. I am doing so until given reason to believe otherwise. It is likely that reason will come with our first night actions.

Notably I've already chosen to do something that is not on the action list I was given and have not been corrected.

That's cool, actually. I also noted that we were told that the list wasn't exhaustive. But if you go back and look at what I actually wrote in my first post, you should note that I was comparing between different known actions, and suggesting that people not waste time tracking if we can get people on stakeout instead, and that watchers would also be better by providing a different type of results. Regardless of what else we can do, does it not seem straightforward that 1 person getting to see multiple people traveling to 1 location is completely superior to the tracker option: requiring multiple people to track all those individuals to the same location?

quote:

I mean not really? It looks like someone trying to defend a stance by arguing it a bunch of different ways and then having it broken down uncharitably.

That's fine in a game of mafia, but this is fundamentally not mafia. Raising suspicion on someone d1 doesn't matter other than via attempting to influence night actions against that person.

We don't get a flip from doing it and get distracted on a bunch of meaningless arguments that would better be served discussing possible night action plays.

Don't talk to me about "uncharitably" when I WAS discussing possible night action plays like you say you want, and explicitly asked for anyone who disagreed with my thought process so far to bloody join the discussion, and Quid showed up to not criticize any specific content, but to criticize the very act of making an effortpost in the first place. If you can't see why I think that's loving bullshit from Quid you can just gently caress right off along with him.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bifauxnen posted:

That's cool, actually. I also noted that we were told that the list wasn't exhaustive. But if you go back and look at what I actually wrote in my first post, you should note that I was comparing between different known actions, and suggesting that people not waste time tracking if we can get people on stakeout instead, and that watchers would also be better by providing a different type of results. Regardless of what else we can do, does it not seem straightforward that 1 person getting to see multiple people traveling to 1 location is completely superior to the tracker option: requiring multiple people to track all those individuals to the same location?


Yes. I came to the same conclusion prior to my action submission

We still want trackers N1 because of aforementioned result ambiguity.

quote:


Don't talk to me about "uncharitably" when I WAS discussing possible night action plays like you say you want, and explicitly asked for anyone who disagreed with my thought process so far to bloody join the discussion, and Quid showed up to not criticize any specific content, but to criticize the very act of making an effortpost in the first place. If you can't see why I think that's loving bullshit from Quid you can just gently caress right off along with him.

I can see why, but it's a comedic overreaction to. "The course of action suggests by your effortpost is potentially bad and therefore I am suspicious."

Anyway, I think it best as mentioned to try to submit different actions by coordinating with your family.

As an aside I would not mention where you're going or who you're looking at specifically until after the fact.

Were I to make any assumptions about the game I'd assume the rules of the death note still apply, so kira needs at least a face to kill. Logically therefore you're at risk if you telegraph where you will be ahead of time.

Jeabus Mahogany
Feb 13, 2011

I'm mad because of a thorn in my impenetrable hide
I'm awake

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Yorkshire Tea posted:

I can see why, but it's a comedic overreaction to. "The course of action suggests by your effortpost is potentially bad and therefore I am suspicious."

How are you getting this from this:

Quidthulhu posted:

I mean yes I am definitely down to eliminate some badman but you going all EFFORTPOST before anything has even started really is kind of susp. Like I want to believe you but with a pera game there's probably still a lot of winconfirmation to figure out and you going hard on the general one we all have is weird.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Hi Jeab! Good to see you.

Jeabus Mahogany
Feb 13, 2011

I'm mad because of a thorn in my impenetrable hide

Bifauxnen posted:

Hi Jeab! Good to see you.

Good to be here!

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bifauxnen posted:

How are you getting this from this:

Because of the subsequent post:

Quidthulhu posted:

It's not that I'm not sure about my Wincon (although again, pera game, I fully expect poo poo to evolve) as it is I maybe want to see how a night phase works / plays out before we all go splitting up all over the place? I think an approach of caution until we know if walking left is gonna put us in [DARK ALLEY] all by ourselves with [J.T. RIPPER] or whatever and that requires some more information about how this poo poo goes down mechanically. I just don't see the need to rush in to things without coordinating and planning a bit, and you're encourage we all start rushing about. It's weird.

Which implies disagreement with your initial course of action.

Anyway, we're going to argue this in circles for ages if we keep going. The key here is that I think Quid is pretty silly for screaming suspicion at your post but I don't think the argument that that comes from is unfounded.

You then crying suspicion on me I view in the same light.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
Hey! This thread is supposed to be for shitposting! :argh:

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


If Quid was genuinely worried about all that stuff, why didn't he bring it up? Why was he just shitposting around, all: "lol what if Bif thinks she's targeted by Kira because she's Kira and targeting herself!!" until I asked him, hey wanna work together on stuff? And then, instead of actually voicing his concerns about all this caution, or laying out his alternative view of how we should be planning, he just got all lovely about it?

I don't see why you're being so charitable to him at all.

SHALASHASKA HAWKE
Nov 10, 2016

No child soldier in poverty by 1990
Quid said "we shpuld plan our actions" and also said "we shouldm't plan our actionx" with a straight face which is a scumlisp and he should be deaded

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?

no! quid drew a snail!

Bifauxnen posted:

KB I fuckin hope you're watching this so you can swoop in as a vanilla civilian at some point :argh:

yes, please! this crusader's words will bring you down much faster than mine!

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bifauxnen posted:

If Quid was genuinely worried about all that stuff, why didn't he bring it up? Why was he just shitposting around, all: "lol what if Bif thinks she's targeted by Kira because she's Kira and targeting herself!!" until I asked him, hey wanna work together on stuff? And then, instead of actually voicing his concerns about all this caution, or laying out his alternative view of how we should be planning, he just got all lovely about it?

I don't see why you're being so charitable to him at all.

At best Quid was unclear. At worst, he's scum trying to force out a bad decision by casting suspicion on you. I just think that Quid being unclear is much more likely at this juncture. There's no need for scum to massively screw up suspicion at the moment since there's no D1 vote to control.

I'm charitable because absent a D1 vote there's not a great need to build a case on anyone at the moment and fostering a better environment for communicating ideas about how we might actually play this game is more important right now than scumhunting.

Also because it's just my default state in mafia to begin with.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Yorkshire Tea posted:

At best Quid was unclear. At worst, he's scum trying to force out a bad decision by casting suspicion on you. I just think that Quid being unclear is much more likely at this juncture. There's no need for scum to massively screw up suspicion at the moment since there's no D1 vote to control.

I'm charitable because absent a D1 vote there's not a great need to build a case on anyone at the moment and fostering a better environment for communicating ideas about how we might actually play this game is more important right now than scumhunting.

wow, that's just so weird how you say you believe this, and yet you thought Quid's posting was just fine and great and understandable when he tried to poo poo on my attempt to actually communicate ideas, in the middle of all the shitposting! And he did so by throwing suspicion around! Why, it's almost as if you're coming up with ways to excuse him after the fact, even if it doesn't quite match up with anything you say.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bifauxnen posted:

wow, that's just so weird how you say you believe this, and yet you thought Quid's posting was just fine and great and understandable when he tried to poo poo on my attempt to actually communicate ideas, in the middle of all the shitposting! And he did so by throwing suspicion around! Why, it's almost as if you're coming up with ways to excuse him after the fact, even if it doesn't quite match up with anything you say.

It was at best unclear.

I believe the best case.

Unclear is just fine and understandable if you put effort in to understand it.

You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm done, I'll check back later.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

by Fluffdaddy
:ghost: actions submitted prior to 7PM Pacific time will receive a complimentary complementary compliment :ghost:

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

A Winner is you!
Man I sure do think Kiras the best. The streets are really becoming safe for hard working law abiding citizens like me.

Kira is just the best.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

oh my god kira shut this crazy b*tch up

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Or maybe I have information about tonight that will make openly discussing night actions tomorrow A Really Bad Idea and that’s why I’m dancing around this poo poo and not expressing it as clear as I could.

In a mafia-like???? You don’t say....

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

Quidthulhu posted:

Or maybe I have information about tonight that will make openly discussing night actions tomorrow A Really Bad Idea and that’s why I’m dancing around this poo poo and not expressing it as clear as I could.

In a mafia-like???? You don’t say....

O...kay? Even if it's a really bad idea, I'm not entirely sure what impact that has on us discussing the outline of what will be done tonight.

It certainly seems weird to go from that to "If people go to locations tonight they will get mugged and die".

The12thLetter
Oct 16, 2017
Does anyone have any suggestions for me?

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Suspicions for Night 1
The current deadline is October 16th, 2017 at 10 p.m. PDT -- that's in about 11 hours, 19 minutes.

Max
Nov 30, 2002

AMIGOS

WE NOW COME TO THE PART OF OUR SHOW WHERE WE ASK YOU, OUR LOVING AUDIENCE, A QUESTION:

WHILE WE MAY HAVE DECIDED TO PROFILE SOMEONE FOR KIRA'S BENEFIT, WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE REST OF YOU ARE THINKING. SO TELL US, EVERYONE AT HOME, AND KIRA, WHOM YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE JUDGED NEXT. PLEASE MAKE SURE IT IS A PLAYER IN THIS GAME, AND NOT SOME RANDOM JACKASS.

WE HAVE ALREADY WITNESSED HIS AWESOME POWER. LET US PRAY HE SHOWS IT TO US AGAIN.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Judge MAX

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Bif you are the best!

Max
Nov 30, 2002

I CLEARLY ASKED FOR A PLAYER NAME.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Max posted:

I CLEARLY ASKED FOR A PLAYER NAME.

Yeah you did, sorry!

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


The Lord of Hats posted:

O...kay? Even if it's a really bad idea, I'm not entirely sure what impact that has on us discussing the outline of what will be done tonight.

It certainly seems weird to go from that to "If people go to locations tonight they will get mugged and die".

THANK you Hats, ugh

Quid, I don't see what you could be dancing around that requires the type of responses you've given me. Let's imagine just for example, you were the equivalent of a doctor in this game. And you didnt want to let that on, which is reasonable. And you have some inside info through your role that maybe you need to be in the same area as your target, or maybe people will only be vulnerable when they're alone, or when their killer knows where they're going, or whatever.

Instead of sitting around not saying anything, and then throwing shade the minute someone gives you an excuse to vaguely discuss night actions in general without you looking conspicuous for it, you could have just joined the conversation and said something like "Gee Bif, I (agree/disagree) with your point about tracking, but you're totally ignoring the question of whether people location matters to their safety. Remember in Myst when being alone meant getting assassinated? Maybe we should discuss the possibility of that happening again, in this, another peragame." Or "hmm, careful Bif, it might be ok to plan in general but make sure you don't get people to start spilling all the details of where all exactly they're going, that sounds like just asking for the enemy to counter you", etc.

But no, instead I got "hmmm, effortpost already? Suspicious! Huh? Why's it suspicious? Well, uh... Ok here's some half-baked excuses"

You really don't sound like someone posting in good faith, at all. If you're town you ought to work on that.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Also, still waiting to hear your plan.

flerp
Feb 25, 2014
hey pera can you give me a dayvig for uhhhhh reasons?

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


flerp posted:

hey pera can you give me a dayvig for uhhhhh reasons?

Yeah give him a dayvig, there's no day phase so what would it hurt

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Max posted:

AMIGOS

WE NOW COME TO THE PART OF OUR SHOW WHERE WE ASK YOU, OUR LOVING AUDIENCE, A QUESTION:

WHILE WE MAY HAVE DECIDED TO PROFILE SOMEONE FOR KIRA'S BENEFIT, WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE REST OF YOU ARE THINKING. SO TELL US, EVERYONE AT HOME, AND KIRA, WHOM YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE JUDGED NEXT. PLEASE MAKE SURE IT IS A PLAYER IN THIS GAME, AND NOT SOME RANDOM JACKASS.

WE HAVE ALREADY WITNESSED HIS AWESOME POWER. LET US PRAY HE SHOWS IT TO US AGAIN.

Dear Death Shot.

I would like you to ask for Kira's judgement on the player Hal Incandenza for responding to your request incorrectly. Such a response is disrespectful and unworthy of a person who would want to live in Kira's perfect world.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Bifauxnen posted:

Also, still waiting to hear your plan.

I can't take an action tonight so I have no plan other than "wait and see."

You have bullied me into revealing this and it's not good for town, but you're leaving me no choice because otherwise you're going to hound-dog and call me scummy for literally not wanting to say "well I can't take an action so maybe we just wait and see what happens first?"

You suck, Bif!

Xad
Jul 2, 2009

"Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"

College Slice

Quidthulhu posted:

I can't take an action tonight so I have no plan other than "wait and see."

You have bullied me into revealing this and it's not good for town, but you're leaving me no choice because otherwise you're going to hound-dog and call me scummy for literally not wanting to say "well I can't take an action so maybe we just wait and see what happens first?"

You suck, Bif!

But even if YOU can't, that's no reason that anyone who CAN shouldn't try to coordinate.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back
Grimey Drawer
Hey friends! There's a lot of angry angry talk here that's bad and no good!!

Let's all turn those frowns upsidedown!!

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Quidthulhu posted:

I can't take an action tonight so I have no plan other than "wait and see."

You have bullied me into revealing this and it's not good for town

How does this logically follow in any way possible, why couldnt you try actually answering anything I specifically asked you instead of coming out with this non-sequiteur and blaming it on me bullying you

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Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

I NEVER SAID we shouldn't coordinate, I said I had a problem with Bif leading us all around by the nose as if she were God's Gift To Mafia. She's already taking a position of "doesn't agree with my plan = scummy" and bullied me into giving out information that is not pro-my-win-condition because if I don't, I'm CERTAINLY scum (which again, isn't true, I just don't agree with her and therefore that automatically makes me scummy.)

I mean do you see how ridiculous that point of view is and why I said initially "maybe don't go so hard before N1 and we get some information out?" Jesus.

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