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Professor Shark posted:Stephen's trading his opium addiction for cocaine was both sad and amusing. Coca leafs isn't the same as cocaine though. It's more like being addicted to super strong coffee or nicotine or using betel nuts, far, far less damaging than opium or cocaine.
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Oct 17, 2017 09:38
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builds character posted:Not as a book. It’s good as a little extra after the series is over, and of course you have to get it. But it’s not a new book. I never have and don't really plan on reading 21.
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Oct 17, 2017 15:51
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Decius posted:Coca leafs isn't the same as cocaine though. It's more like being addicted to super strong coffee or nicotine or using betel nuts, far, far less damaging than opium or cocaine. When they are chewed with a little lime they sharpen the mind to a wonderful degree, they induce a sense of well-being and they abolish both hunger and fatigue.
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Oct 17, 2017 16:11
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Professor Shark posted:
I also get this when rereading the books. There are echoes throughout of Jack's cycle of wealth and indigence, Stephen's botanising/being refused leave to botanise, and especially in Jacks romantic troubles based on jealousy and Stephen's pursuit of distant or unobtainable women. I don't think it detracts from the emotional impact of the plots, but there definitely is a repeated arc. I think the author just liked the characters too much to simply call their story 'finished' and go write something else. And who can blame him?
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Oct 18, 2017 20:31
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uPen posted:I never have and don't really plan on reading 21. As long as I never read 21, the series never really ends and Jack and Stephen are out there sailing along, forever.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:28
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Does 21 just abruptly stop?
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Oct 19, 2017 09:48
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Professor Shark posted:Does 21 just abruptly stop? Yes. It's only a few chapters. O'brien hand wrote all his manuscripts as well, so the last little bit of it is actually just photocopies of his handwritten rough manuscripts complete with little crude drawings and corrections. The writing itself is rough too - it hasn't had the proofreading, and polishing that a finished book would have.
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Oct 19, 2017 13:08
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builds character posted:When they are chewed with a little lime they sharpen the mind to a wonderful degree, they induce a sense of well-being and they abolish both hunger and fatigue. That's a small faction of what cocaine does.  The Encyclopedia of Addictive Drugs by Richard Lawrence Miller I think the first sentence is the important one: Maturin (and like him millions of people every day) is basically drinking beer compared to Cocaine's Everclear.
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Oct 23, 2017 13:30
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I'm at "Treason's Harbor" and when Stephen and Martin are in the diving bell lifting the galley's sunken "treasure", it killed me when they couldn't figure out how to tie the knot on the hook. Stephen's line about not wanting to ask for help "So they don't think I'm not a complete sailor" was so perfect. My wife asked me what was funny and I had to just say "nothing" rather than explain 3000+ pages of leadup.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:43
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Holy god Post Captain is long. Introducing Diana and Sophia, going bankrupt, escaping through Spain, the Polychrest and then the Frigate with the bees.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:23
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uPen posted:Holy god Post Captain is long. Introducing Diana and Sophia, going bankrupt, escaping through Spain, the Polychrest and then the Frigate with the bees. You are not alone in that view. https://www.tor.com/2010/10/11/out-of-his-element-patrick-obrians-post-captain/ https://www.tor.com/series/re-reading-patrick-obrians-aubrey-maturin-series/ Having finally finished all* these fantastic books, I can start catching up on what other people think about 'em without worrying about accidentally finding out when someone I like dies. The most important thing I've got from this thread so far is that anything plot-important re. sailing nerdery was explained to Stephen, which is a brilliant bit of writing craft I never even noticed. Totally going to re-read at some point too, this time with 'A Sea of Words' on hand, though going in blind with all the nautical gibberish had a certain charm to it. *Seriously. 20! And only because the author rather inconsiderately died. Has any other series even come close to that and not been utter trash, or completely lost the plot? Wheel of Time is like 13 or something (also kind of trash). And that suffered from author-death issues too come to think of it.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:10
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That Tor blog series led me to this, which is great: The Reverse of the Hammock
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Oct 27, 2017 23:44
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withak posted:That Tor blog series led me to this, which is great: That's a terrible attempt at aping O'Brian's style, but credit where it is due, 'portable brains' was funny - 'portable soup' was one of the first things I had to look up, but made perfect sense when I did.
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Oct 28, 2017 00:13
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So my brother has been getting into the Hornblower series and the Aubrey-Maturin books. I don't know which copies he has so I don't want to grab one for him. Instead, I want to ask you guys if you have any recommendations for books on Thomas Cochrane, the real life captain that Jack Aubrey takes inspiration from. I know a bit about Cochrane and his crazy exploits, but if you guys know any good biographies or history books about him I could get for my brother I'd appreciate it.
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Oct 28, 2017 01:04
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xiansi posted:You are not alone in that view. Wheel of time was 14 books, each of them as long as a couple of Aubrey-maturin books. It was also definitely not trash; although the final 3 that were written by Brandon Sanderson definitely didn't have the same prose writing quality as the rest. As someone who reads a lot of fantasy it seems hilarious to me when someone calls a book like Post Captain long. Post Captain is approx 154k words; The shortest wheel of time book is approx 227k words, and the longest wheel of time book is 394k words.
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Oct 28, 2017 05:11
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Arcsquad12 posted:So my brother has been getting into the Hornblower series and the Aubrey-Maturin books. I don't know which copies he has so I don't want to grab one for him. Instead, I want to ask you guys if you have any recommendations for books on Thomas Cochrane, the real life captain that Jack Aubrey takes inspiration from. I know a bit about Cochrane and his crazy exploits, but if you guys know any good biographies or history books about him I could get for my brother I'd appreciate it. Skip his autobiography if you know what's good for you. Short of one memorable incident involving a parrot's talent for mimicking the boatswain's whistle orders resulting in a group of Norwegian matrons being unceremoniously dropped into the sea, he is very light on details involving naval life or his own exploits at sea. His passion seems reserved for his apologetic diatribes which takes up an inordinate amount of space. I've only read one biography but it was so forgettable I can't even remember the name. I did learn about the Battle of Basque Roads, and once you get a sense of the scale of the ineptitude and mindboggling passivity of Admiral Lord Gambier you start to appreciate why Cochrane felt so embittered and indignant that he was effectively willing to sacrifice his naval career just to oppose a public vote of thanks to Gambier. To crib a bit from Wikipedia, Napoleon later wrote of the incident: "Cochrane "could not only have destroyed [the French ships], . . . but he might and would have taken them out, had your admiral supported him as he ought to have done . . . The French admiral was a fool [imbécile], but yours was just as bad."
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Oct 28, 2017 11:31
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Arcsquad12 posted:So my brother has been getting into the Hornblower series and the Aubrey-Maturin books. I don't know which copies he has so I don't want to grab one for him. Instead, I want to ask you guys if you have any recommendations for books on Thomas Cochrane, the real life captain that Jack Aubrey takes inspiration from. I know a bit about Cochrane and his crazy exploits, but if you guys know any good biographies or history books about him I could get for my brother I'd appreciate it. I read this one about Cochrane and enjoyed it, but idk where you could find a physical copy https://www.amazon.com/Cochrane-Master-Commander-David-Cordingly-ebook/dp/B00422LERA This is probably the same book https://www.bookdepository.com/Cochrane-the-Dauntless-David-Cordingly/9780747585459?ref=grid-view&qid=1509202824409&sr=1-1 The Lord Bude posted:Wheel of time was 14 books, each of them as long as a couple of Aubrey-maturin books. It was also definitely not trash; although the final 3 that were written by Brandon Sanderson definitely didn't have the same prose writing quality as the rest. The Aubrey/Maturin novels always felt really dense to me, giving them a level of attention that I wouldn't necessarily give to a fantasy novel that I may find myself skimming some parts.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:06
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xiansi posted:Having finally finished all* these fantastic books Congrats! I've re-read this series almost 5 times now, and every read through is practically like the first time. You'll always discover something new. Raskolnikov2089 fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Oct 28, 2017 |
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Oct 28, 2017 17:33
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PerilPastry posted:Skip his autobiography if you know what's good for you. Short of one memorable incident involving a parrot's talent for mimicking the boatswain's whistle orders resulting in a group of Norwegian matrons being unceremoniously dropped into the sea, he is very light on details involving naval life or his own exploits at sea. His passion seems reserved for his apologetic diatribes which takes up an inordinate amount of space. Imagine how much money that decision personally cost Cochrane. Bringing back a fleet of battleships would have gained him a fortune and likely set all his officers up for life.
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Oct 28, 2017 17:44
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withak posted:That Tor blog series led me to this, which is great: Edit - I read the Sharpe novels a few years before the Aubrey-Maturin series. Give me a Sharpe title, and I'll be able to vaguely summarize what happens in it. I'd be able to do the same for AM only insofar as they are all the exact same book.
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Oct 30, 2017 09:46
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lmfao are you really trying to imply these books are MORE formulaic than Sharpe
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Oct 30, 2017 12:23
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InediblePenguin posted:lmfao are you really trying to imply these books are MORE formulaic than Sharpe
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Oct 30, 2017 13:02
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"Formulaic" implies that the *only* things that happen are according to a formula, I think. There's a basic plot engine that drives the series, sure -- [everyone's broke and lonely -> go to sea -> get rich -> come home -> gently caress up -> goto start] but what makes the series compelling is how O'Brian rings the changes on that theme.
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Oct 30, 2017 13:25
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Also, that's pretty accurate as far as sailors and sea officers go.... E: I mean, there are sea shanties about that exact thing
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Oct 30, 2017 13:54
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Yah that describes the sailors in Jack London's nonfiction book about London perfectly.
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Oct 30, 2017 16:19
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Xander77 posted:If by "trying to imply" you mean "really obviously stating in plain text", then sure. ok lol
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Oct 30, 2017 17:22
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I avoid a lot of posts in this thread, I just wanted to say that Jack's children are hilarious
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Oct 31, 2017 23:28
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Professor Shark posted:I avoid a lot of posts in this thread, I just wanted to say that Jack's children are hilarious So is Brigid. I'd love to read a YA series starring Brigid Maturin and George Aubrey adventuring across the post-Napoleonic Wars world.
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Oct 31, 2017 23:33
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uPen posted:Holy god Post Captain is long. Introducing Diana and Sophia, going bankrupt, escaping through Spain, the Polychrest and then the Frigate with the bees. Agreed, I found Post-Captain to be the hardest book to get through. The naval action at the end was one of the best of the series though, and Post Captain and HMS Surprise are really just 2 parts of that Chapter of Jack's life. HMS Surprise was one of my favorite of the series, so you just kinda get through it.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:45
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Lockback posted:Agreed, I found Post-Captain to be the hardest book to get through. The naval action at the end was one of the best of the series though, and Post Captain and HMS Surprise are really just 2 parts of that Chapter of Jack's life. HMS Surprise was one of my favorite of the series, so you just kinda get through it. Holy hell, that bit in HMS Surprise when Jack brings Stephen out of Port Mahon. "tell him that if the commandant is not here in 10 minutes, I will kill him on that machine". The extreme tension and horror of the scene is portrayed so well by the terse writing. It just sort of gets across how disjointed, quick and hard to take in the whole episode was for those involved.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:31
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Genghis Cohen posted:Holy hell, that bit in HMS Surprise when Jack brings Stephen out of Port Mahon. "tell him that if the commandant is not here in 10 minutes, I will kill him on that machine". The extreme tension and horror of the scene is portrayed so well by the terse writing. It just sort of gets across how disjointed, quick and hard to take in the whole episode was for those involved. Everything about HMS Surprise is really good. Maturin's short interactions with the Indian girl Dil and the big Naval action near the end are great. I also love how the great duel that is essentially the climax of books 2 and 3 are entirely composed of like 3 paragraphs It really is fantastic. I feel like it's a high point in the series.
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Nov 5, 2017 03:36
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Genghis Cohen posted:Holy hell, that bit in HMS Surprise when Jack brings Stephen out of Port Mahon. "tell him that if the commandant is not here in 10 minutes, I will kill him on that machine". The extreme tension and horror of the scene is portrayed so well by the terse writing. It just sort of gets across how disjointed, quick and hard to take in the whole episode was for those involved. Next few book spoilers the reader knows he is tortured and generally recovers thanks to being marooned and the characters go on and on about how much better he is, etc. but in surgeons mate O'Brian explicitly describes how Stephen is missing 3 fingernails on his right hand and I just cringe everytime I hear it or think about because 
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Nov 10, 2017 00:50
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Molybdenum posted:Next few book spoilers These books are the only time I have given a poo poo about 'spoilers', so just in case: Warm climates heal torture wounds! And good old 'sea air' of course. Also lots of drugs. Like shitloads of drugs. Being totally whacked on opium or coca leaves most of the time probably helps. And Aubrey gets repeatedly stabbed, shot and generally battered too. You kind of have to suspend disbelief for how much physical damage our heroes can take, though I guess the weird time extension thing that kicks in when O'Brian realises he wants to keep the story going forever doesn't help with that.
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Nov 10, 2017 04:35
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xiansi posted:These books are the only time I have given a poo poo about 'spoilers', so just in case: No, no, there's an explanation! quote:I have a fantastical explanation for this, if anyone would care for it. Padeen, Stephen’s almost mute Irish loblolly boy, is one of the Sidhe, and around him time runs differently. https://www.tor.com/2010/12/06/around-the-horn-patrick-obrians-the-far-side-of-the-world/
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Nov 10, 2017 05:51
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xiansi posted:
While I have no source for comparison re: Maturin, Aubrey's injuries throughout the series, and his recovery/continuation of active service, are plausible for the time. For complete length I think the sheer number is probably beyond any historical example, just as his list of single-ship duel victories is - 20 books to fill, after all! However if you look at biographies of some of the most combat experienced officers of the day (in the French Imperial Army as well as the RN) men commonly were sliced up and went back to full health afterwards. If you survived the initial trauma, blood loss and infection, we are mostly talking about simple puncture wounds after all.
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Nov 10, 2017 14:36
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Genghis Cohen posted:Holy hell, that bit in HMS Surprise when Jack brings Stephen out of Port Mahon. "tell him that if the commandant is not here in 10 minutes, I will kill him on that machine". The extreme tension and horror of the scene is portrayed so well by the terse writing. It just sort of gets across how disjointed, quick and hard to take in the whole episode was for those involved. That's one of my favorite parts of the whole series. Shivers every time I read it. "Maragall led Dutourd to the desk, put a pen in his hand. 'He says he cannot,' he reported. 'Says his honour as an officer -- ' 'His what?' cried Jack, looking at the thing from which he had unstrapped Stephen."
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Nov 10, 2017 17:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:"Formulaic" implies that the *only* things that happen are according to a formula, I think. O'Brian also intended each novel to be able to be read standalone. So, certain tropes like Jack's mother in law, Jack's ineptitude at finance, Stephen's ineptitude at sea, Stephen's double life as an agent provocateur, Jack's familiarity with the lower decks, &c, have to be explained or demonstrated, again and again, for the reader who happened to chance upon a single novel in the canon. For the dedicated reader, it's amusing, as O Brian is an excellent writer and researcher. Can we discuss the funniest quotes in the novel? Just the quotes, no context so no spoilers necessary. From memory: "Lead on, Macbeth." "Petrels do not abide the least gaucherie."
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Nov 12, 2017 04:45
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"If you managed to commit a grave sin between here and the gunroom you have a wonderful capacity for evil." "You debauched my sloth!"
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Nov 12, 2017 18:59
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Stephen posted:A virtuous esculent! Even its boldest detractors, ready to make the most hellish declarations and to swear through a nine-inch plank that the cabbage makes them fart and rumble, cannot deny that it cured their purpurae. Let them rumble till the heavens shake and resound again; let them fart fire and brimstone, the Gomorrhans, I will not have a single case of scurvy on my hands, the sea-surgeon's shame, while there is a cabbage to be culled.' And my favourite: A boy on a ship posted:"Yes, sir. It was about tea, which they did not choose to pay duty on. They called out 'No reproduction without copulation' and tossed it into Boston harbour.'"
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Nov 12, 2017 21:08
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"Babbington looked wretchedly from one to the other, licked his lips and said, ' I ate your rat, sir. I am very sorry, and I ask your pardon.' 'Did you so?' said Stephen mildly. 'Well, I hope you enjoyed it. Listen, Jack, will you look at my list, now?' 'He only ate it when it was dead,' said Jack." "Brother, I insist. I should put my bees onshore for you. Upon my sacred honor!"
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Nov 13, 2017 10:55
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