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Counter point: collecting pieces of heart containers is lame and not rewarding, and Zelda is actually not great compared to other games as far as a sense of progression is concerned To me the fun was always in traversing and exploring a fantasy world, not being rewarded with incremental loot or dungeon specific items
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Oct 17, 2017 21:46
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KingSlime posted:Counter point: collecting pieces of heart containers is lame and not rewarding, and Zelda is actually not great compared to other games as far as a sense of progression is concerned I guess for me it's a matter that that exploring feels less immersive as a result of how they broke up the content. I'd have honestly preferred if they took four or five shrines' worth of content, made them into rooms in a single, larger location, and put that location in a meaningful place in the world. Something that feels less "gamey" than the current system, I guess. Lore spoiler Also it's kind of hosed up that Hylia has, like, 100 Sheikah monks basically mummify themselves as part of these rituals to even provide you these spirit orbs. Like, every Shrine has a dead person in it, and they all seemingly willingly placed themselves where they are at, so the good guys of this game were sacrificing triple digits worth of people in the name of their Goddess.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:52
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Hahaha yeah I thought that was an awful lot of faith as well I'm barely 40 hours in so maybe by hour 80 I'll be wishing that the shrines had individual or even clustered themes. I'm surprised each major region doesn't even provide some half assed tileset or color scheme change. The divine beasts are a cool break but I guess those also just reuse the same environmental assets for each one of the 4
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Oct 17, 2017 21:55
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The reward system in Zelda was bonkers though if you think about it. Difficult shrines or most side quests yielded basic weapons, a simple bundle of arrows, a piece of food, especially in the first half of the game. With no real weapon or character stats or talent trees it was actually very devoid of mechanisms players could manipulate to influence combat.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:57
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Lore spoiler Eh, that was done by Sheikah 10,000 years earlier, not by the Hylians.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:59
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XyrlocShammypants posted:The reward system in Zelda was bonkers though if you think about it. Difficult shrines or most side quests yielded basic weapons, a simple bundle of arrows, a piece of food, especially in the first half of the game. With no real weapon or character stats or talent trees it was actually very devoid of mechanisms players could manipulate to influence combat. The reward is the orb itself. You cleared a shrine, etc. I get wanting a more tangible reward but they got 120 shrines to work with. Maybe they should have tucked some neat slate upgrades in a few critical, hard to miss shrines (toss a few npcs that are like DUDE YOU SHOULD REALLY GO TO THIS SHRINE while you're at it). Maybe a chu chu upgrade to the bombs, ice blocks that do area damage when shattered, a heat sensor on the camera, quicker cooldown on stasis etc. Non essential but meaningful bonuses
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Oct 17, 2017 22:04
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The one thing that I wish they'd add, but don't expect them to, is the ability to boost forward when paragliding.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:05
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I really liked breath of the wild but i always wonder how it would have been with the same open world but with like 8 big dungeons instead of the shrines and specific items being required to get certain places
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Oct 17, 2017 22:06
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whaley posted:I really liked breath of the wild but i always wonder how it would have been with the same open world but with like 8 big dungeons instead of the shrines and items being required to get certain places that almost sounds like regular zelda but with a Big Map as TP highlighted, this isn't really fun
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Oct 17, 2017 22:06
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Also it's kind of hosed up that Hylia has, like, 100 Sheikah monks basically mummify themselves as part of these rituals to even provide you these spirit orbs. Like, every Shrine has a dead person in it, and they all seemingly willingly placed themselves where they are at, so the good guys of this game were sacrificing triple digits worth of people in the name of their Goddess.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:08
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Twilight Princess had a pretty crummy overworld though
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Oct 17, 2017 22:08
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true, and maybe it could be like the plateu but taken further you start with one area with one major dungeon, then are free to run around the next 3 within a larger area after getting a glider upgrade or something. The remainder of the map with the remaining 5 dungeons opens up after those three are cleared. a layered progression a la Mega Man and Bass, I've always dug that compromise between open world and directed experience
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Oct 17, 2017 22:10
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whaley posted:I really liked breath of the wild but i always wonder how it would have been with the same open world but with like 8 big dungeons instead of the shrines and specific items being required to get certain places Basically the game would have been incredible if the same people made it for PC. Portability yea yea yea but god drat can you imagine if the hardware supported full musical scores and voice acting, more texture etc
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Oct 17, 2017 22:11
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whaley posted:I really liked breath of the wild but i always wonder how it would have been with the same open world but with like 8 big dungeons instead of the shrines and specific items being required to get certain places Better
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Oct 17, 2017 22:11
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whaley posted:I really liked breath of the wild but i always wonder how it would have been with the same open world but with like 8 big dungeons instead of the shrines and specific items being required to get certain places Hell yes.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:12
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Is Master mode even worth it in BOTW? I'm thinking of starting a new game.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:13
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KingSlime posted:that almost sounds like regular zelda but with a Big Map All of Link's mobility in BOTW is wonderful. Keep all of that, this whole engine for a new Zelda game, but just have more poo poo integrated into the actual game world. and less stealth sections. I don't even mind the number of dungeons, literally everything about this game would be fine as-is if they had come up with any other means of doling out spirit orbs than they did. It doesn't help I think that I played a LOT of Horizon Zero Dawn not too long ago and it's not fair to really compare the two games, but I think it's an open-world fatigue that's dampening my experience.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:13
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I do have a fairly major complaint against BotW. XyrlocShammypants posted:Basically the game would have been incredible if the same people made it for PC. Portability yea yea yea but god drat can you imagine if the hardware supported full musical scores and voice acting, more texture etc And locking out parts of the world is super awesome in open world games. It's always the capstone of GTA, some artificial barrier to keep you confined to 1/3rd of the area, then 2/3rds, then the 'last' island. Super innovative stuff getting thrown out here that isn't just bad rehashes of prior art.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:15
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Not artificially gating travel to regions is the best thing about BotW.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:17
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JawnV6 posted:It's cool to see folks admit "here's the part of the game I never saw and consequently deemed missing instead of the barest hint of introspection" What? I killed like two of the rock golem guys and two of the big one-eyed bastards and I got some poo poo from 'em but it was just weapons and monster parts and tons of ore, which is cool but nothing super exciting.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:18
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you, a dumb nerd: actually the universally beloved game is bad because I get sad when my leaf breaks me, normal: zelda is fun and you can throw a hammer at a goblin.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:20
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8-Bit Scholar posted:What? I killed like two of the rock golem guys and two of the big one-eyed bastards and I got some poo poo from 'em but it was just weapons and monster parts and tons of ore, which is cool but nothing super exciting. Sounds like you may have missed the Three Brothers and Frost Talus quests. Edit: Not to mention the Hinox on Eventide Island. plester1 fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 22:26
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Who said anything about innovative haha gently caress off with your buzzwords We're just having a cool friendly chat about how some successor to this engine could offer a more structured narrative while keeping the fun parts of the open world design intact
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Oct 17, 2017 22:29
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Kawabata posted:why the gently caress doesn't mario 3d world's endgame mystery house have at least one checkpoint or 2 Yeah I love 3D world a lot but the last mystery house is kinda bullshit with how long it is having no checkpoints and each section is it's own "gotcha!" challenge. Took me a lot longer than Champion's Road tbh (though Champion's Road was a lot more fun).
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Oct 17, 2017 22:41
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To be clear: the BotW world itself is your standard "ancient advanced civilization is now long gone" post-apocalyptic fantasy trope but Ganon's attack 100 years before BotW began was an averted apocalypse, but not prevented/repelled, so the world was still on the brink.XyrlocShammypants posted:Basically the game would have been incredible if the same people made it for PC. Portability yea yea yea but god drat can you imagine if the hardware supported full musical scores and voice acting, more texture etc Do you think the Switch's hardware doesn't support full musical scores and that's why they went with the minimalist music? 
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Oct 17, 2017 22:41
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As cool as it would be to have the Shrines integrated as part of the overworld, realistically I think that would have made them much more frustrating. Encapsulating it in a separate instance means that when you have a puzzle, all the elements are very controlled and there's no risk of a player thinking "Oh that rock outcropping over there looks like the pattern on the wall of this cave to me, maybe that's a hint." And in a design process where the puzzles and every section of the open world are being developed in parallel, it would be impossible to check that changes to the overworld wouldn't give a false hint for a solution. I just wish the the loading times going into and exiting a shrine were decreased. Also, the few shrines that give you armor pieces feel really rewarding after getting nothing but consumables and spirit orbs from other shrines
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Oct 17, 2017 22:44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmy4WW8TqL8
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Oct 17, 2017 22:46
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BOTW owns. October 27th please come quickly so we can move on.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:51
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The worst part about the Shrines in BotW was Your Inventory Is Full
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Oct 17, 2017 22:56
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8-Bit Scholar posted:What? I killed like two of the rock golem guys and two of the big one-eyed bastards and I got some poo poo from 'em but it was just weapons and monster parts and tons of ore, which is cool but nothing super exciting. You hit 5% of those enemies. Like, you can whine about what's "missing" from the game but from your own description you didn't really engage with it all that much. KingSlime posted:We're just having a cool friendly chat about how some successor to this engine could offer a more structured narrative while keeping the fun parts of the open world design intact whaley posted:I really liked breath of the wild but i always wonder how it would have been with the same open world but with like 8 big dungeons instead of the shrines and specific items being required to get certain places
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Oct 17, 2017 22:58
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For what it's worth gating off areas in Bully was super cool and good
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Oct 17, 2017 23:03
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Ventana posted:Yeah I love 3D world a lot but the last mystery house is kinda bullshit with how long it is having no checkpoints and each section is it's own "gotcha!" challenge. Took me a lot longer than Champion's Road tbh (though Champion's Road was a lot more fun). I will never beat Champion’s Road. I am weak.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:04
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whaley posted:specific items being required to get certain places No!
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Oct 17, 2017 23:08
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the truth posted:I will never beat Champion’s Road. I am weak. it took me forever but the feeling afterwards was super super satisfy- wait, you mean i have to do every level with all four characters to get all the stamps? welp
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Oct 17, 2017 23:10
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Evil Fluffy posted:Do you think the Switch's hardware doesn't support full musical scores and that's why they went with the minimalist music? They went minimalist everything as a consequence of hardware limitations. Texture, music, dungeons, voice acting, probably everything was brilliantly reduced to a great game big still reduced nonetheless. Hard to say if they didn’t have ambitions they couldn’t meet or not but my guess it absolutely It perfectly explains why shrines are so samey or many elements of traditional rpgs absent. Shammypants fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 23:10
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alf_pogs posted:it took me forever but the feeling afterwards was super super satisfy- wait, you mean i have to do every level with all four characters to get all the stamps? welp not just to get the stamps, to unlock an entire world too
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Oct 17, 2017 23:12
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the truth posted:I will never beat Champion’s Road. I am weak. It's a lot easier if you try it with Rosalina. Relatively speaking at least.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:15
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alf_pogs posted:it took me forever but the feeling afterwards was super super satisfy- wait, you mean i have to do every level with all four characters to get all the stamps? welp Nope. All five!
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Oct 17, 2017 23:19
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Or just twice if you have enough controllers and no shame. You can bring in co op buddies in the last part of the stage and as long as they all touch the flagpole it counts.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:22
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New Mario Xcom DLC, it's 7bux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m52FRvyC1uU I'll probably do what I'm doing with BotW and wait until all the DLC is available before revisiting.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:22
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