|
ProfessorCirno posted:Striking as Air scales to your opportunity, yeah, but something I noticed while looking at the die real early on is that it is substantially rare to get both a success and an opportunity - it only appears on the skill die, and it only appears once. Given how the roll + keep works, outside of Fire stance and it's ridiculous offense, that means taking opportunity can be a legit cost; if your enemy's TN is 3, and you have Ring 3, you literally cannot spend opportunity. Thus my statement that, later on, Striking as Air stays very useful for tanking, but starts to sap away at your offense, as you have to give up more and more hits (which can be used for extra damage) in exchange for opportunity to keep your defenses up. The razor-edged quality seems inconsistently applied. The katana, chokutō, wakizashi, and scimitar all have it. Those are all pretty straightforward: swords don't do well against armor. But the jian and dao don't have the razor-edged quality. Those are swords too--why wouldn't they be poor against armor and risk damage? I suspect the real reason is because they don't want people using iaijutsu with filthy gaijin blades (except scimitars are ok I guess). Then the knife does have it, which makes sense if we're talking about kitchen knives, but not with the thick-spined tanto: I know for a fact that daggers were used to stab through gaps in European medieval armor, and I'm pretty sure the tanto was used similarly in Feudal Japan, so it's pretty weird that knives are universally bad against armor. It's equally weird when we talk about wargear: the zanbatō is a big fuckoff sword that doesn't have the razor-edge quality, and you can't argue that's to prevent it from being used with iaijutsu because it's innately two-handed so you can't wield it one-handed as iaijutsu requires. Fine, it's a big fuckoff sword that's used to hack at people, it's made sturdier to withstand wartime abuse. But then the naginata does have the razor-edge quality, so apparently you're not supposed to use a naginata in armored combat? What? At least they weren't dumb enough to put razor-edge on the yari, I guess? I should note that I do like the idea of swords being bad against armor and risking damage--it's realistic and encourages the use of the setting's other weapons--it's just poorly applied. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Oct 18, 2017 |
#
?
Oct 18, 2017 22:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 16:11 |
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Striking as Air scales to your opportunity, yeah, but something I noticed while looking at the die real early on is that it is substantially rare to get both a success and an opportunity - it only appears on the skill die, and it only appears once. Given how the roll + keep works, outside of Fire stance and it's ridiculous offense, that means taking opportunity can be a legit cost; if your enemy's TN is 3, and you have Ring 3, you literally cannot spend opportunity. Thus my statement that, later on, Striking as Air stays very useful for tanking, but starts to sap away at your offense, as you have to give up more and more hits (which can be used for extra damage) in exchange for opportunity to keep your defenses up. Note that Fire Stance only offers bonus successes if you've already succeeded. It's exactly as hard to beat TN 3 in Air and Fire stances, the difference is that Fire can likely do so with some margins of success, rather than just barely scraping by.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
L5R 5th Edition: Daidoji With Spear Now Playable
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
Open Beta Notes sent out today from FFG: Greetings Legend of the Five Rings Open Beta Testers, We’re still gathering items for a substantial rules update, so we’re going to make our first big set of revisions a matter for next week. For today, here a summary of what we’re looking at, where you should expect major revisions next week, and some of our thoughts behind this! After you read over these notes, please fill out our Week 3 survey to give us your feedback on some of the ideas here and weigh in on which minor clan you’d like to see previewed in the next content update! Under Revision Duels There has been a lot of great feedback on Duels! Obviously, people are very passionate about dueling in Rokugan. As such, we’re making some pretty considerable changes, tying the rules for objectives much more directly into the lore surrounding duels in Rokugan. Iaijutsu Related to duels, Iaijutsu is another matter people care a lot about, and we want to get it right, so we’re going to flesh it out a bit more. Instead of being represented by single technique, Iaijutsu will be represented a number of techniques representing different draws, while the rules of the single-draw duel will be covered more deeply in duel rules themselves. Outbursts (terminology and theme) We’re not overhauling the fundamental mechanic of strife and outbursts just yet, but we’re going to continue massaging the language that surrounds them. Outbursts are intended to promote roleplaying rather than impede the story, but names often inform people’s roleplaying in subtle but influential ways. As such, we’re offering a number of alternatives to “Outburst” as the terminology in the survey (or you can vote for “Outburst,” if you’re in the camp that thinks it’s still the best fit). Additionally, the sample options available for outbursts might be adjusted, simplified, or expanded in various ways. Are options you’d want to see missing? Are there other issues you’ve run into with the current options in play? If you have feedback on these options, either in presentation or content, please discuss them on the forums or email us your feedback directly! Wounds (terminology and theme) In the same vein, one idea that has been raised is that the theme of “wounds” might be better with a different name, reflecting a character growing more vulnerable to a serious injury (a critical strike) in battle. We’ve got a couple of alternatives that could substantially alter the theme of this mechanic, so take a look and tell us which of these you like the best! Weapon Readiness We want to maintain the paradigm of “one action per turn” during conflicts, but weapon readiness and the related “action economy” needs some work. We’re going to give this a once-over to make it clearer and possibly revamp it entirely. Numerous Small Omissions and Corrections The update we’re currently compiling for release next week has an assortment of corrections, updates, and additions to address gaps in the text. We’ll continue to gather these throughout the Open Beta, so please point them out as you observe them! Under Close Scrutiny Stances (especially Earth) A lot of people are worried about Earth stance, but we want a bit more play-session data before we make any major revisions. Right now, we’re hearing a lot of reports of various stances being too powerful compared to the others. This might be a sign that they’re all actually fairly balanced (ideally, we want every stance to feel “overpowered” when you’re using it, so that you have an incentive to shift rings), or it might just mean people need a bit more time to sift out where they actually fall. Air stance not scaling at all against dice pools that do scale is a bit concerning, so we’re keeping an eye on that. Things We’re Sticking With for Now Strife Strife is core to Legend of the Five Rings as a game of samurai drama. There are a lot of specifics that can change, but this concept—the idea that pushing yourself requires emotional investment (the decision whether to keep dice with strife results to get the associated positive result)—is important. Rokugani samurai are supposed to be stoic and, to a certain degree, even detached. But humans are beings ruled by emotion at least as much as by reason, and that emotion can be a source of strength and a vulnerability at the same time. Strife is there to help Game Masters and players roleplay this important aspect of their characters, giving them a cue of when this state hits a tipping point. Like all RPG rules, strife is a tool. Is strife serving in this role as a tool as well as it possibly can? We’d like to find that out during the Beta. Outbursts (conceptually) To those skeptical of strife and outbursts, one piece of advice: try letting outbursts happen. Instead of looking at them as something to prevent at all costs, see what happens when your character sheds tears into their sleeve publicly, cries out the name of their secret lover when they believe they are about to die, or shouts in jubilation after finally folding a paper crane properly. Remember, you (the player) get to choose where this goes. This is your character’s moment in the spotlight—what do their raw emotions reveal about them that others might not normally get to see? Where does this take the story? In the same vein, GMs, don’t look to use outbursts as a way to entrap the characters—instead, use them to further the story. An outburst might allow a character to shed their mask long enough to truly connect with someone else even as it might jeopardize a character’s reputation. The results of an outburst should match the stakes of the scene and the tenor of the moment. Of course, the name “outburst” seems to be evoking especially violent displays of emotion, so perhaps it’s not the most fitting name. The options provided mechanically might also need to be revised, expanded, or simplified in various ways. Take a look in the survey and give us your feedback directly on this matter! TNs to be Hit There are some calls for passive increases to TNs to be hit, but this is actually something we don’t want to implement based on the dice math. Simply put, the combat isn’t balanced around the assumption that characters will miss a majority of their attacks. We want defending to be a choice a character makes, with relevant costs and vulnerabilities. Earth stance protects against Opportunities. Water stance protects against strife. Air stance protects against being hit. Guard lets you protect yourself and others, but limits your offensive potential and flexiblity. The numbers might not all stack up evenly right now, and we’re evaluating those aspects, but we want defensive options to be just that: options, that have tradeoffs and create interesting choices. With that said, there are a few things that do complicate the equation. Some NPCs may benefit from a passive modifier to be hit (usually under certain circumstances or by specific attacks, forcing players to be creative in their offensive strategies). Also, kata and other abilities can provide substantial defensive boosts. Further, it seems like some people are mostly concerned with the theme that their characters can be “unhittable” rather than the mechanic that their characters never lose resources during combat as they approach a serious injury. As mentioned above, we’re by no means committed to damage turning into “wounds” if another theme is fits better, so please consider your survey answers carefully in this regard!
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 02:46
|
|
|
...I mean, that covers like 90% of what I've brought up here, so good to know FFG is kinda on the same page, hahahaha. As for Razor Edge not being consistent, the weapons list seems more alpha then beta, with a lot missing. While it's not applied best, I honestly do like the general rule existing and hope they do cool stuff with it. Also it's not surprising that people are whinging about strife and outbursts, but they can go gently caress themselves; I adore it, and I think it fits beautifully. Zarick posted:Note that Fire Stance only offers bonus successes if you've already succeeded. It's exactly as hard to beat TN 3 in Air and Fire stances, the difference is that Fire can likely do so with some margins of success, rather than just barely scraping by. I actually hadn't noticed that, and that tapers down Fire's strength significantly. It's still real good, and still the best pure offense stance, but it's no longer insane. Which is good!
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
yea that update gives me a lot of hope, actually, they basically laid out the most glaring issues and said 'yep! Agreed, let's rework those!'
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 04:48
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I despise iaijutsu for it does close to nothing. OH poo poo how did I not notice it compels a one-handed grip? Sweet mercy, that IS awful. As said, further discussion on that is temporarily mooted, as the dev team is apparently pushing out some changes soon to Iaijutsu and Dueling. I'm very curious where that ends up. I'm also totally behind strife and Outbursts, with some concerns I won't express now to avoid derailment. It doesn't surprise me that they apparently have to really wrestle with complaints about the system that tries to compel suboptimal conduct! I'm also very encouraged they seem to be paying some attention to math-related balance issues with Stances and TNs. However, there is not a word in there about kata/invocation imbalance. After Rank 2 had one side dual-wielding - with the Ops that fuel that dual-wield bonus damage coming at the cost of Successes that also cause damage, as Cirno reminds us - while the other side had ghost form, the power of flight, shapeshifting, and concussive magic blasts, I am hesitant to see what groggery Ranks 3+ have in store. I mean poo poo if there's one place for amazing martial feats, it's here. What did the grogs always say about DnD 4e? "Ugh, what is this, anime?" L5R would reply "pretty much, yes." PaybackJack posted:I like to splash Dragon into my Unicorn: 2 Tattooed Wanderer, 2 Let Go, and 2 Indomitable Will. I was thinking For Greater Glory seemed really cute added to Cavalry Reserves.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 06:01
|
|
|
I haven't looked at invocations and will probably never look at invocations. Shugenja have always bored me; too much wizard, not enough actual clergy social class (or rather, close to no clergy social class, usually). I also, if I'm honest, completely expect them to be super overpowered in comparison. Not because that's a GOOD thing, but because this hobby is what it is, and the wizards will always be strongest, depressingly enough.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 06:50
|
|
|
I like shugenja, but in particular I like the shugenja families who have something interesting or unique to them. I love the Moshi, for example, with their sun worship and whatnot, and recently have been enamored with the concept of the Kuni. Conversely, while I like the idea of the Phoenix Clan, I've never had a spark of inspiration when trying to figure out what to do with their shugenja, despite them basically being the best at magic, and usually wound up abandoning the ideas I had there whenever I tried something because nothing really grabbed me. A particular campaign someone runs, with more to build on than just that, could change that, but in and of themselves they're just good mages, basically.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 07:31
|
|
|
I'm splashing Dragon into Crab, 3 let go, 3 togashi wanderer, though Mirumoto Fury may force it's way in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 11:33
|
|
|
While Shugenja were always crazy powerful, I always thought their many limitations helped make them balanced somewhat, or at least not making the rest of the PCs obsolete.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 16:07
|
|
|
SuperKlaus posted:I was thinking For Greater Glory seemed really cute added to Cavalry Reserves. Cav Reserves+FGG is definitely the dream play, but in my experience it isn't nearly as reliable as just having tattooed wanderers and let gos.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 16:14
|
|
|
SpaceViking posted:let go. I'm curious about this, as a 1-core-owning noob who's only played a little to test the waters. It's clear to me from discussion that everyone is very focused on attachments. Here and on cardgameDB I see lots of people talking about including Let Go. My first instinct looking at Let Go was "that sucks rear end." Coming from a Hearthstone and old-times Magic and L5R background, I don't understand this "attachment meta" that seems to have come up. Please explain to me. MonsieurChoc posted:While Shugenja were always crazy powerful, I always thought their many limitations helped make them balanced somewhat, or at least not making the rest of the PCs obsolete. The drum I've been beating here is that they do not in fact have real limitations. In past editions they had spell slots and had to either take many turns chanting out their higher-Rank spells or jack up the TNs to spit 'em out fast. In this edition, let us examine the rules particular to invocations: 1. There are no more spell slots. Instead, each spell may be cast once per Scene. However, 1a) this rule does not apply to Conflicts, which are like 90% of anything interesting happening where you'd want to cast a spell, and 1b) experienced shugenja will have a sufficient inventory of spells such that they will surely find something productive to do each turn anyway, which I anticipate will be made even easier because narrative non-Conflict Scenes demand fewer actions of the participants. 2. Channeling. This is the opposite of the old casting time limitation. It is pure benefit. A 5e shugenja may either just cast his spell right away, or cast it over as many turns as he wishes so he can gather maximum power. Casting spells right away is not unreasonable, either, so it is not the case that Channeling is secretly needed to get anything done. 3. Offerings. Need a little somethin' somethin' just to make sure you can cast right away? Make an offering and get you some rerolls. 4. Spiritual Backlash. This is the most serious limitation, but it still barely keeps anything in check. The Earth backlash is just kind of annoying, and doesn't do anything at all in non-Conflicts. The Water backlash is just a little hiccup in your plans and could even be a boon because it keeps anyone else from using Water! You could easily suffer the Water "backlash" and feel no ill effect whatsoever as your friendly non-Water-inclined shugenja party member smiles and overrides it, or an enemy shugenja grumbles and overrides it for you! Yeesh! Fire and Air are more like it. Sudden unexpected targets could definitely wreak havoc. I still disapprove because they keep narrative focus on the shugenja. The truest, realest core of the "fighter / wizard" problem is that the wizard hogs the spotlight. Explosive fuckery turning a scene upside-down on a Backlash result mechanically delivers harm to people who are not the shugenja as much as (likely more than) him, and narratively keeps everything focused on that wacky shugenja - what's he gonna do next? How's he gonna cope with this one, or how are we going to clean up his mess? I'll accept life with the Fire and Air Backlashes, but I won't like it. Earth and Water need teeth. 5. Prepared spells. If you don't think your spells are flexible enough, you can create them as magic wards and potions so you can lay traps or let your pals spend their turns being conduits for your power (narrative focus on the shugenja, see?). Or whatever. This also arguably creates a loophole around "once per scene" limitations and the Earth and Water Backlashes. 6. Importuning. What's the big deal that the spell list includes flight, shooting fire, reading minds, and so forth, you ask? A given PC will only know so many spells so he won't have all of that. I say to you horsefeathers, a PC will have a hell of a lot of that, and I say to you Importuning. Whatever insane toolbox stunt the spell list provides is in fact available at any time! There is a fee in the narrative and the TN but the point is every drat thing is available. As a little aside, I feel Importuning should be available to all characters. I did exactly this in my recent 4e L5R RPG game. I believe mechanically it evens out the power gaps just a bit and narratively it reinforces the concept of Rokugani magic. The kami are everywhere in everyone's lives and interacting with them is a matter of respectful prayer, not manipulation of some energy field, learned in an academy for the genetically special like Harry Potter. Shugenja are of course schooled in how to do it right but anyone can give it a shot. So there you have it. Invocations are out of control. I am actually not screaming for them to be cratered with nerfs. It is more accurate to say I want to see them brought down from being set to 11 while kata are simultaneously buffed and diversified. No amount of numerical fuckery will change the conceptual issue that kata only hit men with swords while kiho / invocations do whatever the hell they want. It is that conceptual issue that really must be addressed, and the best way to do that is to create wilder kata that enable super-jumping or earth-shaking stomps or aggro-taunt mechanics. Seriously, use DnD 4e martial classes and go from there. I realize I've written a lot on this point. I think I've posted more times, with longer posts, in this thread in a week than anywhere on SA in years. Good game design matters!* Prior to initializing that 4E L5R game (now transitioned to 5E) a few months ago because FFG's activities gave me the spur of nostalgia, I hadn't really bothered with RPGs in years. I used to play a ton of 'em up through around DnD 4e's life. Then I got into board games and it really became clear that RPGs almost universally suck. They're just always so badly loaded down with idiotic, no-effort, unbalanced, and outright poisonous rules, technical writing, and concepts. I really want the terms "role-playing game" and "well-designed game" to stop being mutually exclusive. L5R 5e has a chance at that: the devs have shown understanding of balance issues and math, and have done admirable things like unifying Conflicts and Techniques in sane, rational frameworks. However, fighter/wizard imbalance absolutely must end. *Also I'm a huge L5R weeb.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:22
|
|
|
SuperKlaus posted:I'm curious about this, as a 1-core-owning noob who's only played a little to test the waters. It's clear to me from discussion that everyone is very focused on attachments. Here and on cardgameDB I see lots of people talking about including Let Go. My first instinct looking at Let Go was "that sucks rear end." Coming from a Hearthstone and old-times Magic and L5R background, I don't understand this "attachment meta" that seems to have come up. Please explain to me. Basically, there are a lot of really strong attachments in this game, and teching to remove them is a good idea for anyone. It's not the only idea, but it's a good idea. More in-depth, some attachments warp the game around them, and most attachments are just really solid. A few examples of game-warping attachments are; Pacifism, Way of the Dragon, Togashi Kazue, Favored Mount, Above Question, Sashimono, Fiery Madness, Tattooed Wanderer. Any of these attachments can put you in a bad spot or give your opponent new options they didn't have before. Removing them helps stop some bullshit they can pull. In addition, the neutral attachments are all just really good (Cloud the Mind, Ornate Fan, Fine Katana) and you'll find them in almost every deck, meaning that going for anti-attachment will always be at least a little bit useful.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:33
|
|
|
Attachments are also less of a 2-for-1 than in other games. Removal in this game isn't like the old game with how frequently things get killed. It's usually a tempo play in a worker placement style of tableau. The card disadvantage isn't also as clear if they do get killed because number of cards drawn is a player choice and is much greater than in MTG. So the costs, including opportunity costs, are really cheap and their effects are much greater.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
I don't know, having a person blessed with the ability to command the very fabric of creation balanced with guy who does sword good seems wrong. I like a well balanced game, but tabletop RPGs can allow for differences in power. Don't like shugenja? Cool, don't allow PC Shugenja. It is also very easy to forget that Shugenja are supposed to be very dedicated pacifists.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:I don't know, having a person blessed with the ability to command the very fabric of creation balanced with guy who does sword good seems wrong. Is this seriously an argument for exponential wizards and linear fighters? Those sword guys are so good with their swords they also warp the fabric of reality with their animu powers
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:40
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:I don't know, having a person blessed with the ability to command the very fabric of creation balanced with guy who does sword good seems wrong. I appreciate your joining the discussion. I mean that sincerely, though I would dispute all of your points. 1) A game should not have Player A command the fabric of creation while Player B does sword good. This is fundamentally unfair to player B, and very boring. Further, Player A only commands creation because we arbitrarily say so in this fictional work of entertainment; Player B can just as easily perform incredible things with his sword, as Chill la Chill has said. If it helps, I would suggest that kata users draw power from their ancestors to do amazing things just as kiho draw on ki and invocations draw on kami. See? We can easily explain away "realism" concerns. 2) Simply disallowing shugenja is no solution. When you have to ignore part of the rules to make a game work, it is a bad game. Why should we ever play a bad game? 3) I do not believe that is quite accurate to the setting, but I don't really mean to argue that point. What I would say is that a dedicated pacifist shugenja nonetheless is overpowered and unbalanced because flying, reading minds, and even shooting fire all have stupendous applications to non-combat situations. L5R role-playing, even more so than other role-playing, is not exclusively about combat performance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
So am I reading it correctly that right now monks are looking like more capable fighters than bushi due to low level kiho being way more potent than low level kata? And of course shugenja are OP as gently caress but lol what else is new.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:I don't know, having a person blessed with the ability to command the very fabric of creation balanced with guy who does sword good seems wrong.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:Is this seriously an argument for exponential wizards and linear fighters? Those sword guys are so good with their swords they also warp the fabric of reality with their animu powers Exponential wizards and linear fighters make a ton of sense if that is the setting. When I play L5R it is usually heavy on the politics and social tension tension, and less wandering around murdering people as your muscles swell with all the sweet XP you harvest from the hundreds of monsters you slaughter. If I want to play a balanced game where combat is a well oiled board game that all can delight in perfectly equally I would play D&D 4th. Unironically, it is a great game for delivering that experience. I may be a little biased because my favorite game is absolutely Ars Magica. It is a perfect example of a game where imbalance is baked into the system but that delivers a stronger experience because of that. SuperKlaus posted:I appreciate your joining the discussion. I mean that sincerely, though I would dispute all of your points. Of course a well balanced game should be preferred over a poorly balanced one, but I also don't really think that perfect balance is great either. Shugenja are in a weird place because they have never been good before, certainly not at low levels. I am really more interested to see how the fact that courtiers do social combat with magic powers shakes out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 21:18
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:I don't know, having a person blessed with the ability to command the very fabric of creation balanced with guy who does sword good seems wrong. Two things. 1) The guy with the sword is literally part divine, and their swordplay is literally created by the gods. 2) That last bit is the problem. Shugenja aren't supposed to be wizards. They are not blessed with the ability to command the very fabric of creation. Shugenja are supposed to be a priest social class. They aren't wizards, they're religious leaders. So yeah, it IS very easy to forget that shugenja are supposed to be dedicated pacifists, for the same reason it's easy to forget that shugenja are supposed to be religious leaders, for the same reason it's easy to forget that shugenja aren't supposed to be able to just casually command the kami. It's easy to forget it because it was never put in the game. In any edition.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 21:28
|
|
|
It’s only a few specific groups of shugenja, such as the Asahina, that are supposed to be pacifists. Otherwise there wouldn’t be so many combat-focused spells. The Kuni especially would laugh at the idea of not using their power to smite the monsters of the shadowlands. And yeah, bushi need a serious boost. It’s silly to have the fighters be constrained by realism in a mystical fantasy land like Rokugan where all sorts of crazy stuff is possible.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 21:35
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:If I want to play a balanced game where combat is a well oiled board game that all can delight in perfectly equally I would play D&D 4th. Unironically, it is a great game for delivering that experience. You should try out Gloomhaven because it's now the ultimate D&D dungeon crawling experience. 4e didn't go far enough, and 5e is 
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 21:38
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:You should try out Gloomhaven because it's now the ultimate D&D dungeon crawling experience. 4e didn't go far enough, and 5e is Yeah, I backed the hell out of the 2nd print.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 21:39
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Two things. Down this road lie KAMI GENES, Cirno. (also hi)
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
Maybe you should post on their forums, where they actually read the threads. I personally haven't experienced this in the practice matches or the game I'm playing of it right now, but we are pretty low in system mastery, nor are we trying to be masters of it. But if you can write 30 5 paragraph posts on this forum that no dev reads, surely you could write one in-depth review of the issues for the forums they actually are reading and responding to concerns on? Personally, I don't want bushi to be suddenly doing magical things, because physical magic has always been the monk wheelhouse with ki. Monks have jumped 300 feet in the air through tattoos or ki. Monks have run on air. If you turn Bushi into more physical magic, then why even have the split between monk and Bushi? I've sent a few emails about how I think they should add a 6th kind of technique though, to cover non combat, non social mundane talents. Think kata but for crafting, or trade skills or physical labor, or etc. I don't think everyone needs to be an anime swordsman jumping through the sky like Bleach though. That just removes the Monks whole physical magic wheelhouse to give to a wider variety of people. I think Bushi, at least as far as rank 2 (we are at 36 xp currently) are very strong, and excel at their job of 'kill man' really well. And through raising my Shuji and social skills (because I am playing a Kakita so it's very fitting to be good at social things) I am far from irrelevant outside of combat. Sure. I cannot fly. Or read minds. But for a single opportunity on a social check using my favored ring I can see what someone's intentions are, and they can't lie if I've already passed the TN. Which... isn't that different from reading their mind, except it's not explicitly magical. Same with other rings, which let you figure out exactly what people are afraid of, what they crave for their life, let you know their passions, etc. Shuji can do this, and more. A rank 1 Shuji lets you declare a fact about someone's ancestry they either want to be kept secret due to embarrassment, or that even they don't know of because their family has hidden it so well. A rank 2 one lets you make one action to make anyone fly into a rage. Etc etc. What I'm saying is that all these magical things you claim are impossible to replicate that tip the balance of even social and combat occasions can be matched or even exceeded with shuji and kata. Which every Bushi and Courtier have access to both (which is actually a boring thing I have complaints about, that 90% of schools are 'Shuji + Kata'l KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Oct 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 21:55
|
|
|
Bakeneko posted:It’s only a few specific groups of shugenja, such as the Asahina, that are supposed to be pacifists. Otherwise there wouldn’t be so many combat-focused spells. The Kuni especially would laugh at the idea of not using their power to smite the monsters of the shadowlands. The combat spells are the problem. They are actually for reals all supposed to be pacifists - it's just that shadowlands monsters don't count as "people." The thing with the Asahina is that they culturally aren't even supposed to fight in self defense, which is what the other shugenja would do. But of course, instead, shugenja have a TOOOOON of combat spells. Traveller posted:Down this road lie KAMI GENES, Cirno. I'm just saying, the ronin / great clan divide would be more sensical of ronin were still good swordsmen, and great clan bushi literally did impossible poo poo, rather then great clan samurai being vaguely proficient at weapons, and ronin not even being that. Also hi.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
They're supposed to be absolute pacifists? I read Way of the Minor Clans recently, and it mentioned that the Moshi are pacifists, but not absolutely so, like when they marched with the Phoenix in some war or when they used their magic to repel the Lion. They don't use their power frivolously, but they do use it. The text made them out to be more pacifistic than most shugenja families, too, other than the Phoenix, who were described as absolute pacifists. Edit: Misread, whoops. Though yeah, the absolute number of combat spells is weird, even if some amount of them makes sense. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Oct 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:They're supposed to be absolute pacifists? I read Way of the Minor Clans recently, and it mentioned that the Moshi are pacifists, but not absolutely so, like when they marched with the Phoenix in some war or when they used their magic to repel the Lion. They don't use their power frivolously, but they do use it. The text made them out to be more pacifistic than most shugenja families, too, other than the Phoenix. Cirno is exaggerating greatly. They are all supposed to follow the bushido laws even more closely than other samurai. Because Kami care about that poo poo a lot, and can just deny you spells (both in this edition and previous ones) even if you pass the TN if they feel you are betraying what you should be doing. This means they will stop pointless violence. But they totally allow violence in the defense of life, or even for the sake of honor (such as shugenja vs shugenja duels). It doesn't even only have to be against Oni or in self defense. A shugenja can totally ask an earth kami to collapse a cave housing a bandit clan that has been harming peasants, and kill all those bandits, despite never being threatened. They just also can be told 'what the gently caress, no, I won't light that orphanage on fire'
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:Cirno is exaggerating greatly. They are all supposed to follow the bushido laws even more closely than other samurai. Because Kami care about that poo poo a lot, and can just deny you spells (both in this edition and previous ones) even if you pass the TN if they feel you are betraying what you should be doing. This means they will stop pointless violence. But they totally allow violence in the defense of life, or even for the sake of honor (such as shugenja vs shugenja duels). It doesn't even only have to be against Oni or in self defense. A shugenja can totally ask an earth kami to collapse a cave housing a bandit clan that has been harming peasants, and kill all those bandits, despite never being threatened. Or you can be Isawa Asahina and set entire villages on fire just because you're that angry at the Crane. Shugenja are definitely wizards, for all of their supposed priestly trappings.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 22:39
|
|
|
One the reasons why I don't want bushi to get crazier abilities is that I want my L5R samurai experience to be more Sword of Doom (or 13 Assassins if you are feeling frisky) and much less beautiful Anime men hopping around on trees yelling the names of secret techniques at each other.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:41
|
|
|
Traveller posted:Or you can be Isawa Asahina and set entire villages on fire just because you're that angry at the Crane. Shugenja are definitely wizards, for all of their supposed priestly trappings. Hopefully FFG's writers are... Well, better than AEG's were. Shugenja being consistent, the Scorpion not being 99% mustache-twirling villains, the gods not being casually and repeatedly killed off, there's a lot they could easily do better.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:42
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:Hopefully FFG's writers are... Well, better than AEG's were. Shugenja being consistent, the Scorpion not being 99% mustache-twirling villains, the gods not being casually and repeatedly killed off, there's a lot they could easily do better. I am still salty about how they just casually tossed Yakamo and Hitomi out of the heavens in a single short story with no pomp or circumstance years after that particular story arc resolved.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:One the reasons why I don't want bushi to get crazier abilities is that I want my L5R samurai experience to be more Sword of Doom (or 13 Assassins if you are feeling frisky) and much less beautiful Anime men hopping around on trees yelling the names of secret techniques at each other. I wouldn't mind some schools getting crazier things. Like make some schools more like the Dragon Monks, but with swords and mystical sword stuff. But also things like the Hida where they are just big dudes and ladies in armor with huge loving clubs. I think some Kata could definitely use some buffs, because some ate just bad number wise, but I don't think they need fluff boosts. I think that swording really well can be as cool for a character to do as punching air blasts or praying for a fireball.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:10
|
|
|
Bussamove posted:I am still salty about how they just casually tossed Yakamo and Hitomi out of the heavens in a single short story with no pomp or circumstance years after that particular story arc resolved. I still think that killing off Onnotangu and Amaterasu in the first place was really dumb (particularly Amaterasu; the Onnotangu stuff, sure, I guess, but why would she kill herself over her hateful, evil husband, who literally wanted to murder her and her children as well as everything they created, getting killed?), but yeah, the dragons just chucking them out after that was even more egregious. Again, I really hope they just don't go down the god-killing route this time. It escalates things way too much.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:One the reasons why I don't want bushi to get crazier abilities is that I want my L5R samurai experience to be more Sword of Doom (or 13 Assassins if you are feeling frisky) and much less beautiful Anime men hopping around on trees yelling the names of secret techniques at each other.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:46
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:One the reasons why I don't want bushi to get crazier abilities is that I want my L5R samurai experience to be more Sword of Doom (or 13 Assassins if you are feeling frisky) and much less beautiful Anime men hopping around on trees yelling the names of secret techniques at each other. The problem I see is it's really hard to have any non-samurai in a campaign like that as the rules currently stand. And if you get back to "don't allow shugenja" or w/e, you get to the point of why even have them? And honestly it doesn't even have to all be wuxia-style dudes flying around in trees. Just having abilities that aren't "hit harder" or "hit a lot harder". Roland Jones posted:I still think that killing off Onnotangu and Amaterasu in the first place was really dumb (particularly Amaterasu; the Onnotangu stuff, sure, I guess, but why would she kill herself over her hateful, evil husband, who literally wanted to murder her and her children as well as everything they created, getting killed?), but yeah, the dragons just chucking them out after that was even more egregious. Yeah I'm totally with you on this. Fu Leng basically had a timeshare property in Rokugan. And killing off Hitomi and Yakamo so quickly just seemed like a big waste. You could argue if it should've happened at all, but I thought it was a decent capstone to the stories of two fairly significant people. And then in a decade they're killed in basically a throwaway line as a minor part of some other story. Also the most recent story hints at the presence of the naga which I'm glad to hear, although I'm not sure it doesn't open the door to a bunch of other stuff maybe best left not in the game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:51
|
|
|
alansmithee posted:
If they bring back the "only naga women can get legs" thing, I'm out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 16:11 |
|
|
alansmithee posted:Yeah I'm totally with you on this. Fu Leng basically had a timeshare property in Rokugan. And killing off Hitomi and Yakamo so quickly just seemed like a big waste. You could argue if it should've happened at all, but I thought it was a decent capstone to the stories of two fairly significant people. And then in a decade they're killed in basically a throwaway line as a minor part of some other story. Oh yeah, while I dislike... Well, again, mostly Amaterasu's death, which was dumb and seemed more like it was done so both would be replaced; Onnotangu dying did fit the story, even if it was also a dramatic escalation in stakes and scale of conflict for L5R, but either way, once they did it they should have at least committed to it. Killing Hitomi and Yakamo off afterwards was the worst of both worlds, since it didn't undo the previous silliness and indeed made things even sillier because now the gods died again, within a generation basically, while also throwing away all the stuff they did with those two and probably pissing off people who actually liked the new gods and whatnot. Besides people who just hated Hitomi and Yakamo specifically, I'm not sure who would have been pleased by that move.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:23
|
|