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The trolley problem has always annoyed me (I'm just bored about going through the same conversation about it over and over again) so this episode really messing around and playing with it made me really happy.
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Oct 20, 2017 23:47
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Jason and Tahani make such a perfect couple
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Oct 20, 2017 23:56
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Jason seeing the pikachu balloon, losing his mind, and then immediately popping it was a loving incredible gag.
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Oct 21, 2017 01:17
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I'm Eleanor really wanting to hi-five Michael over that "like the blood was all over him" bit.Space Cadet Omoly posted:I think so; I thought she might not remember that because of the resets, but it seems like she retained something. Nah, she's just independently developing attraction for him again. All the reboots have been depicted as total resets, which is important because it means things keep playing out the same way not because of prior knowledge, but because of their personalities.
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Oct 21, 2017 01:29
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blue squares posted:there are literally 2 other humans in her entire universe Yes, and that's about the only reason she's sleeping with him repeatedly. That alone isn't going to make her change her personality and personal views over night though. They could be the only two humans there and she'd probably still be self-conscious just because Michael could judge her. Or even if they were deserted on an island together and she knew with a certainty that no-one else was ever going to see or know them, she'd probably continue to be self-conscious for at least a time just because her actions don't fit her self image. That poo poo takes time. PantsBandit posted:Jason seeing the pikachu balloon, losing his mind, and then immediately popping it was a loving incredible gag. Joke of the episode to me was Chidi deciding he couldn't break the hypocratic oath and saying so in a very firm manner, only for Michael to immediately say "okay, tell that to their families", clicking his fingers and suddenly there's a load of strangers staring at Chidi as he stands there going "WHAT!". Michael is such a magnificent bastard.
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Oct 21, 2017 01:55
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tsob posted:Joke of the episode to me was Chidi deciding he couldn't break the hypocratic oath and saying so in a very firm manner, only for Michael to immediately say "okay, tell that to their families", clicking his fingers and suddenly there's a load of strangers staring at Chidi as he stands there going "WHAT!". Michael is such a magnificent bastard. "Doctor Chidi, my daddy needed a heart transplant. Did you save his life? He was working then a really bad man ran him over with a trolley."
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Oct 21, 2017 02:08
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Oh gently caress. I spent most of my twenties as a professional baguette thief to feed my family. Am I going to the bad place? 
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Oct 21, 2017 02:26
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Random Stranger posted:Oh gently caress. I spent most of my twenties as a professional baguette thief to feed my family. Am I going to the bad place? Are you French? That's a very important factor.
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Oct 21, 2017 02:36
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:"Doctor Chidi, my daddy needed a heart transplant. Did you save his life? He was working then a really bad man ran him over with a trolley." Also nice to see the trolley problem stated correctly after Kimmy Schmidt got it wrong. 
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Oct 21, 2017 05:23
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Lord Hydronium posted:That was such a great joke. And a hilarious episode in general. How the gently caress do you get the trolley problem wrong? It's not Schrodinger's loving cat.
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Oct 21, 2017 05:50
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Basically (as I recall) they stated it as "you have to steer a trolley to kill one person or five", missing the part - and the whole point of the dilemma - that the five are killed through inaction.
Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Oct 21, 2017 |
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Oct 21, 2017 05:54
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"There's a cat driving a trolley. The windows of the trolley are blacked out so no one can see in, but the cat can see out using a video screen. There's a vial of poison in the trolley that breaks at a random time. Since we can't see into the trolley, the cat is both alive and dead right up until it pulls a lever to divert the path of the trolley onto a track with only one person on it. If it does not pull the lever, the 5 people on the track ahead will die. 5 people die, either the cat was dead, or it's a dick. It's impossible to tell. So the 5 people are in a quantum state of having been killed through inaction and in a freak accident until we open the trolley and observe whether the cat was dead at the time."
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Oct 21, 2017 06:03
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Lord Hydronium posted:Basically they stated it as "you have to steer a trolley to kill one person or five", missing the part (and the whole point of the dilemma) that the five are killed through inaction. But you're the driver. This seems like a cop-out. It seems like the role of 'driver' entails responsibility. If you're driving a car and a bunch of kids run into the road, can you just take your hands off the wheel and cover your eyes? Why is it different with a trolley?
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Oct 21, 2017 06:04
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Accretionist posted:But you're the driver. This seems like a cop-out. It seems like the role of 'driver' entails responsibility. If you're driving a car and a bunch of kids run into the road, can you just take your hands off the wheel and cover your eyes? Why is it different with a trolley? Well, it's a though experiment. If you want to change it to "a bunch of kids run into the road", then the experiment would be "but there are 20 babies in strollers on each side of of the road. So your choices are do nothing and hit the children, or swerve onto the sidewalk and kill 20 infants. You didn't choose to run over children, they ran in front of the bus, but if you avoid them, you are making a conscious choice to kill 20 babies.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:07
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A podcast the other day said that 90% of people surveyed said they would throw the switch and kill 1 person. BUT if you pose it as "You're outside the trolley watching it barrel down the tracks at the 5 people. There's someone in front of you. You are 100% certain if you push that person in front of the trolley, their body will cause it to stop and save the 5 people." Then 90% would let the trolley kill the 5 people.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:09
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PostNouveau posted:A podcast the other day said that 90% of people surveyed said they would throw the switch and kill 1 person. That's a terrible way to phrase it, because it kind of implies you could sacrifice yourself to stop the trolley, which would be the most ethical option. So now imagine that you're the trolley driver, and you've decided not to flip the switch, but then 5 more people throw themselves in front of the trolley in a horribly misguided attempt to stop it and you kill a total of 10 people and feel extra bad about your lovely choice.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:11
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Snak posted:"There's a cat driving a trolley. The windows of the trolley are blacked out so no one can see in, but the cat can see out using a video screen. There's a vial of poison in the trolley that breaks at a random time. Since we can't see into the trolley, the cat is both alive and dead right up until it pulls a lever to divert the path of the trolley onto a track with only one person on it. If it does not pull the lever, the 5 people on the track ahead will die. 5 people die, either the cat was dead, or it's a dick. It's impossible to tell. So the 5 people are in a quantum state of having been killed through inaction and in a freak accident until we open the trolley and observe whether the cat was dead at the time." (Speaking of which, was this episode the first confirmation we had that the points system actually works roughly the way it was described in S1?)
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Oct 21, 2017 06:14
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The world is garbage and so letting 5 people receive the sweet release of death is the option that inflicts maximal good on the greatest number of people, which makes it the most ethical option. Additionally, any given group of five people is almost guaranteed to have a colossal rear end in a top hat in it, so killing the five people probably maximizes good for society at large as well.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:15
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IME if people are working around rails and aren't looking out for approaching equipment then their blood is on the hands of whoever hosed up their safety training.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:17
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Accretionist posted:But you're the driver. This seems like a cop-out. It seems like the role of 'driver' entails responsibility. If you're driving a car and a bunch of kids run into the road, can you just take your hands off the wheel and cover your eyes? Why is it different with a trolley? Uh, being the driver of a trolley isn't anything like being the driver of a car, where you can just drive anywhere you want. Trolleys run on a track, the driver's only option is to do nothing or to hit the button that puts the trolley on the other track. Did you even watch the episode?
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Oct 21, 2017 06:17
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Lord Hydronium posted:But does the cat still have enough points to go to the Good Place? When did they confirm that? I must have missed it. I liked how, intentionally or not, Michael made Chidi face his own inability to act on moral quandaries in practice. That's certainly gotta be relevant, considering that everything in season 1 was relevant to the overall narrative.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:18
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In the conversation about Michael's essay on Les Miserables, Michael talked about the points you lose for stealing bread/being French.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:20
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Lord Hydronium posted:But does the cat still have enough points to go to the Good Place? Cats canonically refuse to take part in the Good Place/Bad Place system. 
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Oct 21, 2017 06:24
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Snak posted:"There's a cat driving a trolley. The windows of the trolley are blacked out so no one can see in, but the cat can see out using a video screen. There's a vial of poison in the trolley that breaks at a random time. Since we can't see into the trolley, the cat is both alive and dead right up until it pulls a lever to divert the path of the trolley onto a track with only one person on it. If it does not pull the lever, the 5 people on the track ahead will die. 5 people die, either the cat was dead, or it's a dick. It's impossible to tell. So the 5 people are in a quantum state of having been killed through inaction and in a freak accident until we open the trolley and observe whether the cat was dead at the time." No. The cat always pulls the lever, even if just during its death throes.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:35
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Spanish Matlock posted:The world is garbage and so letting 5 people receive the sweet release of death is the option that inflicts maximal good on the greatest number of people, which makes it the most ethical option. I believe this is the 'multi-track drifting' argument.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:36
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Michael gave the correct answer.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:37
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The writers def knew the traditional trolley problem had you as a bystander instead of the driver, but they changed it so Chidi could be splashed with gore.
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Oct 21, 2017 07:17
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Lord Hydronium posted:
This episode had Michael saying, again, with his mouth, the points system works the way he described in Season 1. Michael has lied to the four (and us) for the equivalent of eons. This exact episode hinges on him lying to the core 4 multiple times and in multiple ways. So, if you think Michael is telling the truth, sure, it’s confirmed
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Oct 21, 2017 07:36
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Are we gonna get this same “but Michael could be lying about ANYTHING!!!!” thing every week? The points system is for sure real.
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Oct 21, 2017 07:40
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Memory's hazy. Is it possible there is no good place?
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Oct 21, 2017 07:45
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Escobarbarian posted:Are we gonna get this same “but Michael could be lying about ANYTHING!!!!” thing every week? The points system is for sure real. Well, I’ll keep saying it as long as the plot of each episode contains “What is Michael lying about this week?”
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Oct 21, 2017 07:50
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TwoPair posted:Are you French? That's a very important factor. Does French Canadian cancel each other out?
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Oct 21, 2017 08:08
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I am totally on the “this is one of the best episodes” trolley! I can’t decide who is the better comedic actor, William Jackson Harper or Ted Danson. They are both just so good.
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Oct 21, 2017 08:19
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Escobarbarian posted:Are we gonna get this same “but Michael could be lying about ANYTHING!!!!” thing every week? The points system is for sure real. Points have to be real because the end of the series will be our heroes liberating everyone from the bad place because you can’t measure morality that objectively
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Oct 21, 2017 08:22
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Rocksicles posted:Does French Canadian cancel each other out? I think it actually has a doubling effect.
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Oct 21, 2017 08:29
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theflyingexecutive posted:Points have to be real because the end of the series will be our heroes liberating everyone from the bad place because you can’t measure morality that objectively Also, now that I think about it, the existence of the medium place relies entirely on there being a points system.
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Oct 21, 2017 08:30
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Chidi, as an example, went to the Bad Place because his neuroses hurt other people. He is essentially in hell for having a mental illness. What that means is: the system that sorts people into the Good/Bad places is cruel and hosed up. The Bad Place and the real Good Place (whatever it's actually like) are both completely on board with this cruel and hosed up system. Does the system use points? Well, that fits in with how cruel and hosed up it is, so sure! This is how the afterlife works and whatever divine authourity governs it is cool with all of it. If the points turned out to be a lie, then that just means the system uses a different cruel and hosed up sorting method than points, which would not be an interesting twist because it would not change or recontextualize anything.
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Oct 21, 2017 08:31
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Tahani's sister should be in the bad place by now, just have her share her house.
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Oct 21, 2017 08:33
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It’s very clear that the beings who control the sorting don’t understand human nature as they are rigidly confined to their Manichaean reward/torture system.
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Oct 21, 2017 10:06
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theflyingexecutive posted:It’s very clear that the beings who control the sorting don’t understand human nature as they are rigidly confined to their Manichaean reward/torture system. I'm not looking that word up, gently caress you.
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Oct 21, 2017 10:20
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