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https://twitter.com/jamonholmgren/status/922266198858809344
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Oct 23, 2017 09:14
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Thoatse posted:Sol Destroyer... ...wait that Sandi's part and she's had enough roles cut lately 
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Oct 23, 2017 09:20
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Besides, CIG would probably have a square function be a constant loop that just keeps generating random integers 'k' and comparing them to n*n, returning k only when it matches n*n. It would terminate at some point, probably, but it would be virtually impossible to tell how long such a loop could go from run to run. Enjoy profiling that. Then again, the compiler might be able to optimize that away, as well.
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Oct 23, 2017 09:40
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noice
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Oct 23, 2017 09:54
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Toops posted:Sorry to keep derailing with programmer chat, but I can only handle so much scamming bullshit from Chris Robert's Star Ship Imporium. Programmer chat is cool and it shows me that there's a crazy number of folks posting on here who actually know what they're talking about. Lends a lot of credibility to the criticism of CIG's coding. The last professional programming I did was Dataflex and DBase IV way way back in the day, and I was a Novell guru. My geek credibility is therefore completely out off date and can safely be ignored in most cases. I do know a couple of games programmers who were doing stuff back in the 90s and games programming is a whole different level of pure madness, I can't even fathom how difficult it must be to make multiplayer games. Watching the Twitchcon panel atm, this is the first chance I've had to look at it. Scott Manley just said "PDP 11" 
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Oct 23, 2017 09:57
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Folks, folks, folks! Citizencon is in 4 days  .
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Oct 23, 2017 10:34
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SomethingJones posted:I can't even fathom how difficult it must be to make multiplayer games. The big trick is to leverage work done by people much smarter than you. You download <game engine> to use for 3d rendering, you download a lockstep or server/client+prediction based netcode library depending on your use case, plug it in, and bam, you have yourself a multiplayer capable game foundation. Then come the actual hard parts though: adding in a game people will want to play and tuning your netcode to work with your particular game (all netcodes are basically one of like 2-3 variants, but their parameters can differ pretty significantly). SC somehow only managed to get the archer part down.
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Oct 23, 2017 10:35
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Latin Pheonix posted:Folks, folks, folks! gently caress yeah this and super mario odyssey in the same week
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Oct 23, 2017 10:43
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Latin Pheonix posted:Folks, folks, folks! Aha, but which slideshow will have the higher framerate? The game or the powerpoint?
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Oct 23, 2017 10:47
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A few snippets from https://www.twitch.tv/videos/183740101?t=01h59m40s Ben Lesnick: "I think you had that generation that the people who were making these games... that the people had came of age in the 1960s when the space race was at its height it was just infiltrated here... in a sense." Scott Manley: (talking about 80s space game Sundog) There was a great repair machanic were as you take damage, you can go to the panels and you can pull out all the circuits, and you can see all the circuits and fix those. And there was a bit in the game were you would find a hive of scum and villiany and you would talk to somebody and he would sell you a cloaking device chip... and you'd go into your shield matrix and you'd replace one of the components and suddenly you'd have a cloaking device. It was a great game and still worth playing. (link to Scott playing Sundog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZxMQJFwM1U) It's also really nice to see Rescue On Fractalus on that list because that's really one of the earliest procedurally generated planet generators... and there's one that's missing that was Captain Blood, which you may not have heard, it was a French game and it had procedurally generated planets and it also had these crazy rear end aliens with language that you had to figure out. Never complete it but the explosions were amazing. (These were both amazing games for their time, Captain Blood especially, proper alien languages you had to figure out) Ed Lewis: I think also Sam and Dan Houser the GTA guys are quoted as saying it (Elite) as being a large part of why GTA was even made possible at all, because it was the work that Ian and David did back in 1984, just two guys, in the same amount of memory as in one single text email today had eight galaxies... and I think that's pretty cool. Scott Manley then talks about Warhead, a cool old Amiga game with 6dof that nobody really remembers. This is another old classic space game, it had a ten mission story campaign iirc. Ben Lesnick: Well as long as we're talking about games that nobody remembers exists from the 80s, ah, SPACE VIKINGS for the Apple II, ah... that was my first game at all I think. I would sit at my desk... SPACE VIKINGS, it was somebody's Elite rip-off I think but I remember it very fondly Now we get to 90s space games - Scott points out that there are no Star Wars space games on Captain Richard's list, no X-Wing, no Tie-Fighter, Jared points out that there's also another notable omission as Wing Commander doesn't appear to be mentioned at all anywhere. Ed Lewis says he should have done his homework (lol) from the chat: BenDance Oh, here's the Wing Commander games, all on their own slide! Ben Lesnick: So Wing Commander is not the greatest space game in the world. I mean it's... it's just the greatest GAME in the world. It's not a space game in the same league as X-Wing or any of these more real space-simming physics engine, I mean it's essentially an arcade game with an amazing package around it. It's just... we always like to argue about who did what first, Wing Commander II was not the first game to have full speech, Wing Commander I was not the first game to have VGA graphics or bitmapped enemy ships... but it was the game that put it all together and did it BEST. It was such a sea-change for both how people played games, and why people bought computers... that they wanted to show off... this GAME, man... how it TALKED and what it LOOKED LIKE... it... it... it's just an amazing production where everything came together so WELL... and continued to throughout the series. PRIVATEER is Origin's version of Elite, and it's Elite with all the Wing Commander trappings, you know they create the full motion video genre of games which ended up being a terrible mistake but they did it so well Wing Commander was a game that... did things very well and it changed how game were made. You know the modern way of making a game goes back to Wing Commander which... which... you know... 'let's produce this game like a Holywood film' were you have a producer who tests this team and this team and this team, you know... before that you built games with a couple of people in a GARAGE... it just marks such a change in how gaming works and it... that's what I think anyway haha Ed Lewis: Forgive me for not knowing this but how many of these (all the Wing Commander games) were made by Chris Roberts? Was he involved in all of them? Jared Oh god Ben I think he was involved with all of them except one?
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Oct 23, 2017 11:00
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Oh god
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Oct 23, 2017 11:01
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For the record - I remember the hype around Privateer very well. It sounded like it was taking the lone pilot space trade combat game and adding more depth, more story, better graphics - it was going to be Elite except better in every single way. I remember the adverts in the print magazines for it and being excited for it. Star Citizen is exactly the same thing all over again, it really is.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:08
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Toops posted:This is my favorite: Some years ago I wrote a program in C and rewrote it in C++ a few years later. Every couple of years I have to rewrite it for whatever flavour of C++ we get according to the STL. I'll probably rewrite for clang when it becomes the default kernel compiler. I'd rewrite in a scripting language but well, that link explains it better than I can.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:10
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Also people should play more old space games because they were in fact awesome.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:12
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SomethingJones posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk6lKoXsMn4 Warhead was awesome, in the proper sense of the word. Best sound track. It had a cool lateral thinking finale to killing the bad guys too.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:13
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I struggle to judge Wing Commander's gameplay as 'very well' in quality. It was a 'fun enough' kind of average. It was just a thing you did between cutscenes and it felt like the missions were as prompt as possible (visit these three waypoints, kill some enemies, come back). Although there were some genuinely interesting missions (like the one where you need to rescue Catscratch and scrub a vital mission in the process) but they were few and far between compared to other sci-fi sims. When I went back and played it just a few years ago I was surprised at how average it was, and the many baffling decisions made in the game mechanics. Compared to TIE Fighter, Freespace and other contemporaries, it hasn't aged nearly as well.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:14
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Truga posted:The big trick is to leverage work done by people much smarter than you. You download <game engine> to use for 3d rendering, you download a lockstep or server/client+prediction based netcode library depending on your use case, plug it in, and bam, you have yourself a multiplayer capable game foundation. Then come the actual hard parts though: adding in a game people will want to play and tuning your netcode to work with your particular game (all netcodes are basically one of like 2-3 variants, but their parameters can differ pretty significantly). It seems to me that all of the networking and multiplayer stuff needs to be in and solid before you try to build a game on it. Is this the case, and is CIG's plan of revisiting the networking at a later date a complete disaster waiting to happen in your opinion
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Oct 23, 2017 11:15
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SomethingJones posted:Watching the Twitchcon panel atm, this is the first chance I've had to look at it. Scott Manley just said "PDP 11" You probably know Fredrick Brooks "second system effect". It happened with the next computer after the PDP11, the Vax. Thompson and Ritchie took one look and said "well, someone else can port Unix to that". I don't blame them, the PDP11 instruction set is beautiful and elegant compared to the Vax. You could also look at Star Citizen as a form of second system effect for Crobbers. Except its his 3rd or 4th and he still hasn't learnt from the success of the 1st. He's made every mistake more than once according to the Brooks model.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:15
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Milky Moor posted:I struggle to judge Wing Commander's gameplay as 'very well' in quality. It was a 'fun enough' kind of average. It was just a thing you did between cutscenes and it felt like the missions were as prompt as possible (visit these three waypoints, kill some enemies, come back). Although there were some genuinely interesting missions (like the one where you need to rescue Catscratch and scrub a vital mission in the process) but they were few and far between compared to other sci-fi sims. Agree with this 100%. The ship gameplay was ok-ish, it was certainly no Elite but the fun and the addiction to the game came from the story, characters and cutscenes. It nailed the feeling of being in a sci-fi adventure story. I played it on, must have been a 286 or 386 and bought it for the Amiga when it was ported. There were already so many better space games for the Amiga by that stage but what was exciting about Wing Commander was seeing it on the Amiga at the time. It was like 'wow, they've gotten Wing Commander on the Amiga! I have to get it!' It was one of those games you bought because of the graphics - it was all scaled sprites and ran terribly, but I remember having one awesome night of gaming with it whilst completely stoned out of my head.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:21
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SomethingJones posted:It seems to me that all of the networking and multiplayer stuff needs to be in and solid before you try to build a game on it. Is this the case, and is CIG's plan of revisiting the networking at a later date a complete disaster waiting to happen in your opinion It's like building a truck on a go-cart chassis. You design the wheel wells, axles, side panels, glass, interior, exhaust, hydraulics, electrical, etc around those dimensions. Now make it all fit on a truck chassis. Now make it work on the moon. Star Citizen!
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Oct 23, 2017 11:36
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SomethingJones posted:Agree with this 100%. The ship gameplay was ok-ish, it was certainly no Elite but the fun and the addiction to the game came from the story, characters and cutscenes. It nailed the feeling of being in a sci-fi adventure story. I played it on, must have been a 286 or 386 and bought it for the Amiga when it was ported. There were already so many better space games for the Amiga by that stage but what was exciting about Wing Commander was seeing it on the Amiga at the time. It was like 'wow, they've gotten Wing Commander on the Amiga! I have to get it!' It was one of those games you bought because of the graphics - it was all scaled sprites and ran terribly, but I remember having one awesome night of gaming with it whilst completely stoned out of my head. Yep. And the story, while nothing to write home about, was decent enough. The characters were good enough and brought to life by the wonderful cast. Tom Wilson as Maniac is still a lot of fun to watch to this day. McDowell chews scenery as Tolwyn. There's a young Francois Chau... It was basically a fun sci-fi B-movie. Wing Commander 4's source code calls it "WC4: Milking the Tiger" which is pretty drat funny. And while the gameplay had some neat ideas -- like branching plotlines based on in-mission performance and choices -- it didn't execute them well at all when you stop to think about them. The biggest example of this, in my mind, is WC3's 'failure path' where if you fail enough missions you go through a different set of missions before you lose the war. Fantastic idea, but you can't get off the 'failure path' once you're on it, and if you're a great pilot, you just end up fighting respawning waves of Kilrathi fighters until you get bored and quit as opposed to something interesting. Also, you never know when you're on the failure path. WC4's defection plot has a similar problem if you choose to stay loyal to Confed. Instead of allowing you to kill your friends and blow up their carrier and then get a non-standard game over cutscene, they magically blow up your carrier and it's game over until you make the right choice. There just aren't many memorable missions. Sure, I remember some, but it's not remembering like Freespace 2 where upending your objectives and status was practically par for the course. "There will be no negotiations, Bosch", "I can live with being a pawn if the game makes sense", "DIVE DIVE DIVE", ships ramming each other and so on. Or even TIE Fighter which, I think someone pointed out earlier, has a wonderful sense of progression in the early campaigns so you learn as you go even if you're flying the laughable TIE Fighter against murderous X-Wings.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:41
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SomethingJones posted:It seems to me that all of the networking and multiplayer stuff needs to be in and solid before you try to build a game on it. Is this the case, and is CIG's plan of revisiting the networking at a later date a complete disaster waiting to happen in your opinion See, it's like building a car. Everyone knows you always start with the sunroof when you build a car. Always. If you don't do the sunroof first, how will you even be able to see to do anything else? It'll be too dark. It's just common sense. "You can have any colour you want, as long as it has a sunroof. And electric seat warmers." -- Henry Ford.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:43
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SomethingJones posted:Agree with this 100%. The ship gameplay was ok-ish, it was certainly no Elite but the fun and the addiction to the game came from the story, characters and cutscenes. It nailed the feeling of being in a sci-fi adventure story. I played it on, must have been a 286 or 386 and bought it for the Amiga when it was ported. There were already so many better space games for the Amiga by that stage but what was exciting about Wing Commander was seeing it on the Amiga at the time. It was like 'wow, they've gotten Wing Commander on the Amiga! I have to get it!' It was one of those games you bought because of the graphics - it was all scaled sprites and ran terribly, but I remember having one awesome night of gaming with it whilst completely stoned out of my head. WC was one of those games that was in the right place at the right time. Up until that point, PC gaming (as opposed to obscure Microprose simulations or RPGs with horrible graphics) wasn't that great and PCs just weren't thought of as a serious games platform vs Amigas and Atari STs. WC was simple, accessible and the graphics were good vs what little competition existed at the time. That was all that was required for it to become a success. This also explains why it has dated so awfully.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:43
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Wait, I'm pretty sure WC4 had a mission where you need to shadow an enemy fighter but it doesn't tell you how much distance and if you get too close you get rumbled and if you get too far you lose them. I can remember Jason Bernard's "Give them about [static] breathing space and then tail them" line vividly.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:44
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Scruffpuff posted:I think if we can find this Robert guy we'll all find out this whole thing was all just a big misunderstanding. Star Citizen: Get Robert
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Oct 23, 2017 11:49
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Let's be honest, we're all Star Citizens really
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Oct 23, 2017 11:51
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Welcome to the|
But WC4 is still kind of interesting for doing a story that isn't 'good humans vs bad aliens' but instead about 'what do war heroes do when the war is over'? Unfortunately, instead of making it a tragic political story about the lack of support (which is how it begins, to be fair) it's suddenly about the Evil Conspiracy of Space Hitler and his Genetically-Engineered Super Soldiers. Which was then seemingly stolen by Star Trek Into Darkness.
Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 11:52
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ewe2 posted:You probably know Fredrick Brooks "second system effect". It happened with the next computer after the PDP11, the Vax. Thompson and Ritchie took one look and said "well, someone else can port Unix to that". I don't blame them, the PDP11 instruction set is beautiful and elegant compared to the Vax. I've actually never heard of Frederick Brooks but I see exactly what you're getting at regarding Star Citizen and the second system effect. I think that applies to game mechanics too, but I've never had a description or a name to put to the effect before now  My experience with Vax was literally just writing Cobol and Pascal on the college Vax system, never got down to the filesystem or to any low level on it. I cut my teeth on Unix, learnt on the job and went on into Novell 2.2. I loved Novell, I really did. I first heard of the PDP11was when working on migrating a Novell 4.0 box to a Windows system - it had an uptime of 4 years when I arrived on site to look at it! That job involved 4 of us from different parts of the country, one from each company that the shipping company system needed to talk to. One of those guys (who was an absolute gentleman) talked about his fondness for the PDP11 for the exact reason you mention - a beautiful and elegant instruction set. We compared how NT did things and how PDP11 did it, it's all lost to memory now but the lunchtimes I spent with those guys were something really special.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:55
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Frederick Brooks https://www.wired.com/2010/07/ff_fred_brooks/ I cannot believe I've never heard of this guy. "Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later." "Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment." "How does a project get to be a year behind schedule? One day at a time." His book 'The Design of Design' sounds fascinating.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:05
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This is the difference between getting a proper university education in software engineering and bailing out of university and taking the first 'computery' job you can get. I did the latter, I just wanted to buy a guitar and start a band.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:08
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Milky Moor posted:But WC4 is still kind of interesting for doing a story that isn't 'good humans vs bad aliens' but instead about 'what do war heroes do when the war is over'? Unfortunately, instead of making it a tragic political story about the lack of support (which is how it begins, to be fair) it's suddenly about the Evil Conspiracy of Space Hitler and his Genetically-Engineered Super Soldiers. Which was then seemingly stolen by Star Trek Into Darkness.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:16
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Milky Moor posted:WC4's defection plot has a similar problem if you choose to stay loyal to Confed. Instead of allowing you to kill your friends and blow up their carrier and then get a non-standard game over cutscene, they magically blow up your carrier and it's game over until you make the right choice. Then I-War came out later in the decade and did a similar plot but much much better. Sure the "staying loyal to the now revealed as bad guys navy" branch was shorter but it actually leads to a just as satisfying ending. Probably helped that the game was pretty limited in cinematics (outside of the incredibly long intro) with most plot occuring during the missions themselves. Wing Commander on the other hand had 90% of the plot in the fmvs.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:17
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Hot take, I actually liked WC4's story being told in the fmvs at the time (emphasis on that last part). It wasn't too special, but it wasn't a bad thing either. But yea, looking at some videos of the previous games, the gameplay really hadn't evolved and was all about milking what's already been invented. In hindsight, that and the utterly dumb movie that I actually bothered to watch with some mates once made it pretty obvious even back then that nothing was gonna come out of his fevered dreams that wasn't an attempt to ape movies at the expense of actual gameplay.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:19
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SomethingJones posted:Frederick Brooks He's a smart man. I have to say, of all the books I own but have never bothered to read because I'm a lazy oval office, this has to be my favourite.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:19
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The big problem with wc combat in every game is that the ships, unless afterburning, are very slow relative to their high turning speed so you don't get actual dogfighting. If someone is on your six you don't shake them so much as spin around and shoot them in the face. You evade by afterburning away erratically and then you noisy head on. Combined with super dull scenario design the actual game side of every wing commander is pretty bad compared to any contemporary space game. The xwing and the fighter games have excellent core combat. Even in the duller missions it's great fun to swoop around and blow up enemy fighters. Freespace doesn't do dogfighting quite as well as xw or rd in my opinion, But the mission design, certainly in fs2, is absolutely next level. It's full of endless cool poo poo. Wing commanders cheesy space opera was 100% my bag as a kid though, god drat.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:27
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tooterfish posted:He's the originator of the famous "nine women can't make a baby in one month" aphorism. Yeah his insights are more true today than flipping Moore's Law. Read The Mythical Man-Month. Also, read AntiPatterns. It will explain CIG almost perfectly. I mean just look at this list: - Cart before the horse: Focusing too many resources on a stage of a project out of its sequence - Death march: A project whose staff, while expecting it to fail, are compelled to continue, often with much overwork, by management which is in denial - Ninety-ninety rule: Tendency to underestimate the amount of time to complete a project when it is "nearly done" - Overengineering: Spending resources making a project more robust and complex than is needed - Scope creep: Uncontrolled changes or continuous growth in a project’s scope, or adding new features to the project after the original requirements have been drafted and accepted (also known as requirement creep and feature creep) - Smoke and mirrors: Demonstrating unimplemented functions as if they were already implemented - Brooks' law: Adding more resources to a project to increase velocity, when the project is already slowed down by coordination overhead. I prefer the Brooks' law definition that goes like this: "Adding more people to a project that's late will only make it later." Source
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Oct 23, 2017 12:33
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Oct 23, 2017 12:37
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SomethingJones posted:It seems to me that all of the networking and multiplayer stuff needs to be in and solid before you try to build a game on it. Is this the case, and is CIG's plan of revisiting the networking at a later date a complete disaster waiting to happen in your opinion Yeah, you kinda need to know how your networking is going to work and then work from there. You can get away with a lot with their model (authoritative server/predicting client), but it's a model that only really works well for simple games with not too many moving parts, like shooters. Take something like battlefield for example, it seems complicated at first, you have tanks, choppers, you can see how many people are in each, and so on. But making games is all about cheating as much as you can, so each vehicle is serialized to just 1 actor in netcode, with pointers to people in them, and then hit points, position, orientation (+ turret orientation, if it's a tank) and speed (for prediction purposes), and generally these games only run at 20-60 ticks per second and the rest is filled in by your client's prediction, which it does by running the same game as the server at a higher tick rate, and adjusts every time it gets an update, and it does all the pretty poo poo that happens on your monitor like calculating suspension physics etc. So you get away with clients not needing much bandwidth, since there's a max of like 80 very simple mobile actors on a map (max players + max vehicles), less if there's many people in vehicles. Grenades, tank shells, bullets, etc all get simulated on each client completely independently, the clients only get the "player throws grenade in direction", the server then just confirms hits when needed, which is why you once in a blue moon get killed by a grenade or bullet that wasn't there on your client due to local error due to latency/packet loss/whatever. Meanwhile in star citizen every ship is like 47 actors, and spawning in a medium sized ship sends like 10MB of data over the internet so the correct variant with the correct guns, tv, shower stall, thrusters and outhouse spawns in your game, during which all the clients must wait (and, in the case of star citizen, they don't even render new frames while waiting apparently, so the game stutters to gently caress constantly. who the gently caress makes the renderer wait on network I/O, jesus loving christ is this 1991?), and then it sends 43 different thruster updates every tick because they swivel and exhaust at random and everything grinds to a loving halt. At these amounts of data to track you should be using lockstep (all the clients are calculating the exact same things and only player inputs that modify results + a heartbeat to stay in sync get sent between clients), but lockstep is a slowass piece of poo poo that works really well for RTS games where having half a second of delay between click and shoot doesn't matter (see: warcraft 3, runs exactly the same with 2 players and 12 players at max capacity), but would be absolutely terrible even for the spacesim part of the game, much less star marine. Oh, also, the server in SC isn't very authoritative after all, it just believes any input the clients send, so cheating is the easiest thing on earth. Or at least, it was that way when I last launched the game 2 years ago, though I see no reason that'd have changed, seeing how nothing else has. SomethingJones posted:This is the difference between getting a proper university education in software engineering and bailing out of university and taking the first 'computery' job you can get. I did the latter, I just wanted to buy a guitar and start a band. Where I live the standard for people out of software engineering university is usually "  That's not saying people who just go into computery jobs straight outta high school are any better on average, mind, but they don't get reclassified as manager so. 
Truga fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 12:40
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Ghostlight posted:Woah, excuse me. Star Trek Into Darkness stole its plot from the Star Trek episode Space Seed and subsequent feature film Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan. No, I'm being serious (well, somewhat glib) but it's weird that a bunch of things line up! I know this because it came out just after my playthrough of WC4. Off the top of my head. A conspiracy to frame another political power with a series of terrorist bombings. A disgraced officer and his motley band are entrusted to find the truth by an Admiral. During the investigation, they find out that there is weird genetic experiments going on culminating in super soldiers who wear black. They find a super warship and a top-secret facility, the latter of which is infiltrated to find secrets. In WC4 this ship is the Vesuvius. In ST:ID it is the Vengeance. The Admiral that entrusted them to figure out the truth of it all is behind it! The Admiral believes that conflict is the only way to ensure human dominance in the galaxy. The hero ship is engaged in a running battle to Earth by the enemy super ship in an attempt to expose the Admiral. Climax takes place on the Earth's surface. It doesn't match 1:1 but it's a lot of little coincidences. I think they even make mention that the Vengance is painted black with no markings, just like the conspiracy ships. A brief Google search tells me I'm not the only one who's noticed this.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:42
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ShineDog posted:Wing commanders cheesy space opera was 100% my bag as a kid though, god drat. Yeah, I recently got WC1 for SNES (for $5 lol) because I saw the advert for it back when it came out, but never found it in a shop. In terms of graphics it's quite an impressive thing to see on the SNES, but boy the gameplay has not aged well at all. Hats off to the coders who managed to squeeze all the controls into the SNES controller (modifier buttons in a SNES game, lol) I played a few missions for shits&giggles, but couldn't really get into the game. But I'm sure 12-year old me would have loved that poo poo withour a doubt.
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