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hm yes. there definitely aren't any weird power dynamics at play in their relationship, because kyouko is over 18.
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Oct 24, 2017 00:58
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dogsicle posted:hm yes. there definitely aren't any weird power dynamics at play in their relationship, because kyouko is over 18. Their relationship is all kinds of messed up and I never meant to imply it's not. She's legit stalking him and forcing her way into his apartment, he's apparently cheating on his sick wife with a much younger woman. It's obviously not cool that he tied her up, he should have just thrown her out.
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Oct 24, 2017 01:14
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the whole episode is really weird to me and kind of bad, unless they're going to follow through on gotoh and firmly refute the weird positive takeaways both kyouko and rei have about him.
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Oct 24, 2017 01:33
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Other than being kind of a dick to Rei and going overboard in punching him, has Gotoh done anything for us to not like him? We only have Rei's perspective which is, slanted, somewhat.
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Oct 24, 2017 02:08
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Raenir Salazar posted:Other than being kind of a dick to Rei and going overboard in punching him, has Gotoh done anything for us to not like him? We only have Rei's perspective which is, slanted, somewhat. not that i'm sure of an exact time frame on these things, but his relationship with kyouko should probably not be an issue at this point. iirc the flashback stuff in s1 had him giving her a gift, and he's essentially encouraging her by having her be some weird gift-buyer for his wife. also the whole scene of her forcing her way into the apartment being played as a joke is awful, same with his reaction being "okay, i'll just tie you up in my bed."
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Oct 24, 2017 02:14
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Raenir Salazar posted:Other than being kind of a dick to Rei and going overboard in punching him, has Gotoh done anything for us to not like him? We only have Rei's perspective which is, slanted, somewhat. I mean besides beating up a skinny teenager and the entire cheating/Kyouko stuff, he is also just horribly mean to Rei every time they encounter each other. He taunts him, tells him to deliver mean messages to his sister, and generally goads Rei on to the point of rage. Despite the bit of humanization, I still think Gotoh is a huge rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 24, 2017 02:29
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I don't think this episode was meant to make you like Gotoh. It's just pointing out that there is a reason why people tolerate or even like Gotoh, even though he is in Rei's and most viewer's opinions a terrible person. Rei's view of Gotoh isn't wrong, it's just largely based off how he treated him and his sister and so is unique to him. This might be obvious to most of us but sadboy stories tend to point out things that are obvious if you aren't sad and/or a boy.
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Oct 24, 2017 03:04
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Like Kyouka, I don't feel Umino is trying to lead us to a single encompassing answer about Gotoh. Also like Kyouka, Gotoh hurts people around him for seemingly no reason while also dealing with his own pain caused by things he could not control. Unlike Kyouka however, Gotoh is a 50+ year old man and shouldn't be punching teenagers bloody and sleeping with twenty year old women who cling to him out of fear being alone like they always have been, but humans are agents of chaos and the things they don't aren't perfect. Rei has always seen Gotoh as the closest thing to antagonist and that's accurate honestly. But also Rei isn't privy to Gotoh's background like we are, where the opposite is true for the first season with Kyouka and it's a fun juxtaposition. Kyouka is meant to be incredibly intimidating, she's drawn powerfully cold and sharp, but Rei gives her a lot of leeway into his life that we has viewers don't think he should until we see what Rei has experienced with her. In this case, we're Rei with Kyouka, we are learning what and why people like about Gotoh and what he's gone through while Rei becomes the viewer and wonders why anyone even loving bothers with him cause that dude bloiws. It'll be interesting to see if Rei will ever learn that about Gotoh, as even after he's seen him stand up for Shimada, he can hardly stand Gotoh, and for absolute good reason. Gotoh entering the scene instantly makes my stomach turn, I've known people like Gotoh who have been with people I know like Kyouka, and the whole thing is just hard to deal with. I def do not like Gotoh, but I def felt this episode is good for fleshing him out beyond just A Big Man Whom I Do Not Like, I'd be bummed if anyone big in this story was left uncharacterized. dogsicle posted:and he's essentially encouraging her by having her be some weird gift-buyer for his wife granted I was super hungover again watching this ep, but I read it as his wife was in a coma and so he asks Kyouka to go out and buy hair and skin products for his wife with his money because either he's too embarrassed to do so himself or just doesn't know much about hygiene products, all so he can wash his wife's hair etc. I'd have to go back and rewatch it not in a bad way, but out of all the bad things Gotoh does, that really didnt seem like one of them
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Oct 24, 2017 03:07
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Moltrey posted:man we read this scene super differently I think he was being honest when he says going in places like that gives him minor allergic reactions. Hell, I get a bit sneezy too in some perfume sections of malls. On the next level, it made him seem like he was asking Kyouka out of convenience. Like to show that their relationship is more than just FWB but less than "we're actually soulmates".
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Oct 24, 2017 04:29
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I feel like the latest episode was meant to show Gotoh and Kyouko don't just have a weird messed up relationship but a weird messed up relationship with layers, though the layers are perhaps not as at least minorly sympathetic as they want to be. Like Gotoh comes off to me as not actually wanting a romantic relationship, from the way the scene went he doesn't look he wants to sleep with her at all. He's just like lonely or wants company. Someone to help him with shopping because he's uncomfortable with crowds or just stay with him because he can't sleep and is dealing badly with his wife's coma. And in like another context that could be pretty cute I guess, if both people involved were clear on what this relationship was and what they wanted out of it. But it seems real clear Kyouko sees this as or at least wants this to be a real romantic relationship because of her own issues, and Gotoh kinda seems to be keeping up that illusion. He lets everyone else see it that way at least and beats up Rei when he confronts him about it. Like, it's not quite an older guy manipulating a younger vulnerable girl into a messed up romance and sleeping with her and cheating on his sick wife. But it's still an older guy manipulating a younger vulnerable girl for companionship and for his own personal issues. And also he tied her up to his bed to achieve this and that's really weird.
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Oct 24, 2017 04:49
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I like what the seris is doing having Rei reflect on his hatred of Gotou, but I can't say anything gleaned from the episode has changed my impression of the man as an unfeeling, abuser shitass, and the ways it does flesh him out only make him all the more pathetic. How ya gonna make your mistress go buy your wife's beauty products, my dude? gently caress off forever, Gotou. If Umino is genuinely looking to make Gotou more legit sympathetic, she'll have to do far better than tackily throwing in a comawife. Best part of the whole episode was seeing the shogi center president hand him his rear end in front of everyone. Oh, and the Nikaido freakouts were very good this week. As was Kuma kicking in a wall.
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Oct 24, 2017 09:58
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I feel like it just made me understand Gotoh a bit more and I appreciate that given how he was such an object of disdain for Rei all first season. Might not make me like him but it definitely made him a bit more than just that rear end in a top hat who punched him and his sister is clinging too for some reason.
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Oct 24, 2017 11:10
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Moltrey posted:man we read this scene super differently i mean that's what he is doing on the face of things, yeah. whether he's considering the consequences or not, asking kyouko to run errands for him does only feed into what she wants out of him and makes it harder for them to be free of each other. though obviously he's got some small conflicted part that wants to be able to fall back on kyouko's presence.
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Oct 24, 2017 12:16
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AnacondaHL posted:I think he was being honest when he says going in places like that gives him minor allergic reactions. Hell, I get a bit sneezy too in some perfume sections of malls. dogsicle posted:i mean that's what he is doing on the face of things, yeah. whether he's considering the consequences or not, asking kyouko to run errands for him does only feed into what she wants out of him and makes it harder for them to be free of each other. though obviously he's got some small conflicted part that wants to be able to fall back on kyouko's presence. Gotoh knows its not sustainable and that he's taking advantage of her, but its the only thing close to a peaceful moment he has Kyouka is scared of Gotoh at times and leaving him for someone healthier would give her warmth somewhere that isn't Rei and get father off her back. Sadly this doesn't happen because Gotoh is too weak and bad to cut it off and Kyouka is so desperately lonely and wanting control at the same time (Her sneaking into Rei's bed and saying "Don't touch me, but don't move away from me" is still like the rawest thing to me so far"
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Oct 24, 2017 13:05
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IIRC Gotou was Kouda's student along with Rei's biological father, and Kyouko/Rei got to know him as they grew up. There are absolutely some nasty power dynamics at work in that relationship no matter how you slice it. And ultimately it is hard to understand just how it really works, if it does at all. As after all despite what we saw in this episode, Kyouko still seeks solace in Rei, crying/lamenting that despite all of Gotou's antagonism towards both her and Rei she still loves him. Everyone seems to contradict their own actions and hearts, and ultimately I don't think we are truly meant to feel "sympathy" for these players on this board. Instead we are meant to see them as humans. "Who are you to decide what is good? What is bad?" It's not like this is directed solely at Rei, you could call it the entire theme of the episode. It's why "Chaos" is such a great title for that little arc.
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Oct 24, 2017 13:07
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I'm going to regret this Rei doesn't fully understand what's at play when he tries to intercede for his sister but it doesn't change the fact that Gotou repeatedly punched a teenager. Kyouko is also not absolved of her predatory behavior - particularly towards Rei - merely because of youth, she's an adult and is absolutely a stalker, but she's also in way, way over her head with gotou and comes as close as she can to flat out admitting it to Rei when she talks about being scared (of who she is). Gotou is not only an older adult freely engaging in a sexual relationship with a much younger woman, he's also engaging in one with a woman with whom he has had an almost paternal relationship. Kyouko clearly figured out that her sexuality is the way she can get attention and feel some sense of power in her life and again, she's an adult and has agency, but Gotou willingly engages her on some level and has the real power here. That's what that weird tying up stuff amounts to. And having your quasi lover buy beauty products for your wife is a weeeeird move. There's a huge level of intimacy there. Gotou is also pretty broken and worth examining; characters can be deeply flawed but still interesting and even sympathetic in some way and I think both Kyouko and Gotou fall readily in that category. I guess I worry more for Kyouko because she's on a terrible path and Rei is seemingly the only person she's even remotely interested in reaching out to, and she can't even do that without being abusive. Her dad really did a bang up job on that family
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Oct 24, 2017 16:20
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Okuyasu Nijimura posted:Her dad really did a bang up job on that family I know posting a spoiler like that is annoying but your comment is just too teed up for it.
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Oct 24, 2017 16:38
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You're right on that count 
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Oct 24, 2017 16:46
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Nate RFB posted:(Manga) He can take some solace in at least not being the worst one in the story. And we've seen how dysfunctional his family has become but we don't really get a sense of the toll it has taken on him, and he even comes off as blithely unaware of the situation. Do you think Umino is withholding overt criticism of his character until at a later point in the story?
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Oct 24, 2017 17:00
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I feel like it's maybe it's gotta be a thing for later, mostly because other things right now are much more pressing and perhaps interesting? Like I do hope Kyouko's father gets looked into, but there's so many bigger problems right. Their father has done his damage, so lets see everyone pick up the pieces for now. I can't wait for it tho, cause goddamn is it fascinating how much someone not really that malicious can gently caress up three people's entire lives like that. It's really weird to think that this manga is still going on and we're only just a 1/3rd of the way through the current content. I will say that my biggest problem with this season is the lack of Momo. Momo's voice actor is older than me, but her kid voice is incredible and just hearing her in the Next Time on made me smile. Will drop if not not more Momo
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Oct 24, 2017 23:51
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Latest volume translation is also just about done by HWMN too btw
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Oct 25, 2017 00:25
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I stumbled across the live action movie part 1 while on a flight and liked it but thought the ending left a lot unresolved. But there doesn't seem to be any way for me to watch part 2 so I guess I'm stuck! Should I just read the manga or anime or whatever?
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Oct 25, 2017 01:04
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P-Mack posted:I stumbled across the live action movie part 1 while on a flight and liked it but thought the ending left a lot unresolved. But there doesn't seem to be any way for me to watch part 2 so I guess I'm stuck!
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Oct 25, 2017 01:19
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I think the first movie covers parts the anime hasn't gotten to yet, but I assume it didn't go in depth? The manga would def get you there and the anime is really good as well
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Oct 25, 2017 01:27
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Volume 13 translation is up if you read the manga: http://hiwamatanoboru.com/2017/10/27/3-gatsu-no-lion-march-comes-in-like-a-lion-volume-13/
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Oct 28, 2017 05:44
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Today's episode was the start of possibly my favorite arc. Don't forget to watch after the ED.
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Oct 28, 2017 18:24
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Man i'm so happy this is back for a 2nd season. I was big fan of Honey & Clover to, the author of this is amazing. I read the manga after the first season, and yeah some good but emotional stuff coming up.
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Oct 28, 2017 22:55
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I don't know if I'm going to like the Hina is sad arc. There's several sad people in this show, but not Hina. Hina should never be sad. 
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Oct 28, 2017 23:15
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Ooooooh boy. To be truthful the hype for this season caused me to go back and reread this part and I dunno if people are going to be ready for it, it kind of destroyed me all over again.
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Oct 28, 2017 23:49
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Nooooo I was ready! Finally ready! To see Rei destroy some people in Shogi!
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Oct 28, 2017 23:57
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I do not think I am ready for this Hina arc. Just with the post-credits scene my defensive "who did this where are they BLOODTHIRSTY REVENGE TIME" alarm was a-blarin'.
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Oct 29, 2017 02:08
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The hina arc is probably one of the most affectingly real arcs in a manga I've read, and man, I've read a lot of fuckin' manga. poo poo's rough, yo
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Oct 29, 2017 06:16
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those are my shoes give them back they don't even fit
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Oct 29, 2017 11:04
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Do you need to know anything about shogi to appreciate this? I know the rules but am completely ignorant as far as strategy goes.
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Oct 29, 2017 14:29
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P-Mack posted:Do you need to know anything about shogi to appreciate this? I know the rules but am completely ignorant as far as strategy goes. Just like most (edit: good) sports shows, nope. Me before the show: "Shogi is, uh, Japanese chess?" and that's all I knew. The first season does a good job explaining the rules in a palatable way.
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Oct 29, 2017 14:33
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AnacondaHL posted:Just like most (edit: good) sports shows, nope. Me before the show: "Shogi is, uh, Japanese chess?" and that's all I knew. The first season does a good job explaining the rules in a palatable way. Cool. When I was in elementary school I read about shogi in a book and thought it sounded really cool so I made my own board and pieces out of poster board but nobody ever wanted to play with me. 
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Oct 29, 2017 15:58
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I know folks are sick of me mentioning it but I literally skip the shogi parts of the manga entirely, or skim them for non-match stuff. I still love this series a hell of a lot but I just can't stand sports stuff in most manga, especially things like shogi or that thing in chihayafuru, which I bounced off of completely. You don't have to read/watch to the shogi parts to enjoy the series, though they do help with aspects of certain characters and define a few others.
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Oct 29, 2017 16:42
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Yeah you don't have to know a ton about or even be particularly interested in shogi to appreciate the characters. Like, I know enough of the broad strokes to know that it sounds very like a very interesting game that I have no plans to dedicate the time to learn well enough to understand the significance of anything that might be happening on the board at any given time. If you're already reasonably familiar with chess those broad strokes aren't too hard to grasp, though. Start with chess, but make it way more complex by allowing the redeployment of captured pieces, giving every piece a ton more mobility on the board, and allowing promotions of those pieces to versions with even more mobility. I love these anime shogi dorks, but I am not one of them.
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Oct 29, 2017 19:41
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I don't know if I'm going to like the Hina is sad arc. There's several sad people in this show, but not Hina. Hina should never be sad. AnacondaHL posted:I do not think I am ready for this Hina arc. Just with the post-credits scene my defensive "who did this where are they BLOODTHIRSTY REVENGE TIME" alarm was a-blarin'. i do not want to watch the new episode anymore
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Oct 29, 2017 20:08
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The shogi parts are executed exceptionally well and have some great bits of characterization and imagery, especially for some side characters for whom the game means different things. It is a useful narrative framing device and even provides some solid justification for why Rei is able to handle some things the way he does. It's arguably not the reason I like the story as much as I do but I also can't imagine it without it.
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Oct 29, 2017 20:47
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