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Rantista posted:Well CIG mentioned that they're going to use Amazon GameLift. GameLift was never designed for a MMO, it was designed for session based games like Dota 2 or Overwatch. Amazon will spin up a single dedicated instance for a session and recycle it afterwards. There is no way that this will support 100+ players, so SC will be pretty much limited to 32 players max in an instance. We literally don't know how gamelift and gridmate may have changed since CIG's adoption of LY. It could very well be that the Cry-engineers on CIGs staff were able to work with Amazon in this regard - or not. Time will tell.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:15
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ManofManyAliases posted:I don't know too many other games that use Amazon in this way. And why's that?
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Oct 30, 2017 21:15
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Thanks for the answers but I want to double-check a few things.ManofManyAliases posted:
Not loaded at all. You need to know how many players are going to be able to interact in your game, that number is basically what defines a MMOG. I am not talking about how many are handled per server, I mean how many players will be able to take part in a space battle -for instance- 60-80 seems like a very low number but I can use those numbers if you wish. quote:I don't know. I'm assuming an Americas, EMEA and AsPAC?[/b] So, in that case, there will be three mostly independent "verses", right? quote:4) What kind of servers are you using? Typical AWS stuff, a cluster? Ok, so top-of-the-line virtual machines in a single data server for each "verse". quote:5) Can players that are on the same immediate area but are connected to different servers interact? Forget about AWS and its actual features, we assume that they are present. Will they be able to interact? (BTW, that is as far as a readily-available-feature as you can get). trucutru fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 21:16
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moma is out surfacing surface detail at this point
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Oct 30, 2017 21:20
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ManofManyAliases posted:Varied? Full compliment of S12 torps in the Jav could run a couple hundred real dollars or a half-mil UEC. I don't see how that is an issue if you're running several larger missions that dole out 100k UEC a pop, especially with org-mates. MoMA I appreciate you coming around to provide a counterpoint to our FUD (especially because more often than not you're cautiously optimistic and at least aware of the potential pitfalls) but come on man, nobody (including CIG as far as I can tell) has any idea how much things are going to cost or missions are going to pay out. Wild speculation is our gimmick, not yours 
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Oct 30, 2017 21:20
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Hav posted:'the blade'? Yeah. AWS servers are comprised of 10 u chassis, 16 blades per chassis (4 in a rack), total of 64 blades per rack. At 1 server a blade, that's essentially 64 servers per rack, give or take how they are managing their virtual machines.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:22
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im talking about server blades in 2017.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:24
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just stop. its embarrassing. like I feel embarrassed for you that you're typing any of this out
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Oct 30, 2017 21:25
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ManofManyAliases posted:We literally don't know how gamelift and gridmate may have changed since CIG's adoption of LY. It could very well be that the Cry-engineers on CIGs staff were able to work with Amazon in this regard - or not. Time will tell. this is a team that couldn't get a delta patcher for their own prepacked data for years on end, and despite the company posing video after video of make-work none of them ever discuss any actual approach to solving this even bigger problem that has stumped teams with more cohesion, planning and resources so yeah who knows what'll happen, dream big, don't be a loser that hates
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Oct 30, 2017 21:25
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ManofManyAliases posted:Is it though? Can you pay to buy UEC? Yes - capped per month, but yeah. Does that mean winning? Hardly. If you're paying for consumables on a regular basis, that could suggest you do less missions or pirate less or whatever. It's a slider of skill/luck vs laziness/carelessness. I don't see how paying to buy in-game currency automatically means you win anymore than buying a one-dollar scratch-off and finding out you only won a dollar. So a company that will take 15k for 1 pack of virtual ships will cap the amount of money you can give them because they care about game play balance? 
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Oct 30, 2017 21:25
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I hope they get SC running just long enough to sell "retired" server blades like WoW. That large a concentration of crushed dreams in that small of a form factor has to have some kind of value.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:25
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can I get an SC server to run on my old ford ranger, it has a chassis with a 4 cylinder engine that has plenty of power
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Oct 30, 2017 21:26
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Rudager posted:And why's that? They emphasise compute, memory or GPU with absolutely no emphasis on latency or bandwidth. You can buy dedicated server space, but you're still effectively eating the same network as everyone else. Some other fun things with AWS; You're never quite sure who your neighbours are, so you could end up with someone eating 60% of outbound to the switch. This is why test instances are spun up and measured, because they can vary *wildly*.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:27
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Beet Wagon posted:I hope they get SC running just long enough to sell "retired" server blades like WoW. That large a concentration of crushed dreams in that small of a form factor has to have some kind of value. that reminds me what happened to the firefall bus
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Oct 30, 2017 21:28
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Virtual Captain posted:im talking about server blades in 2017. SHHHHHH!!!!
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Oct 30, 2017 21:28
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 Imagine this, but it says "Star Citizen" and it's been attached to a stylish leatherbound hilt and I'm running around shirtless swinging it at nerds as they talk about how the world just wasn't ready for Chris Roberts's dream game.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:28
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ManofManyAliases posted:We literally don't know how ManofManyAliases posted:communication still remains more open and public than pretty much any other title I've seen 
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Oct 30, 2017 21:28
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ITS NOT PAY TO WIN its pledge to win, please get it right
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Oct 30, 2017 21:29
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Some people have the broke brain to say that its "Pay to have an early advantage" and even know that having a big advantage early on means that the snowball just keeps getting bigger and bigger because the rich get richer and the poor keep being poor but nope, its still not pay to win.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:32
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Some people have the broke brain to say that its "Pay to have an early advantage" and even know that having a big advantage early on means that the snowball just keeps getting bigger and bigger because the rich get richer and the poor keep being poor but nope, its still not pay to win.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:38
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i've been following since 2015, lot of people saying time will tell about various things major spoiler time has toldit's the end of 2017, there's no game and no reason to expect a game anytime soon there's no argument to be had here it's not a game that's overdue at this point; forget the years of shenanigans and just looking at the 3.0 timeline - you have, not a game, but a slice of a pre-alpha literally a year overdue on top of six billion other delays this is it; this is all the evidence anyone should need. if the restaurant can't even do the chips and salsa right how the gently caress they gonna bring you the best drat fajitas ever? you spend several years waiting for the chips and salsa you know drat well you ain't getting those fajitas no matter how much you paid for them
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Oct 30, 2017 21:38
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Lmao if anyone thinks amazons xeon dust magnets will ever run cry engines main thread for more than a handful of clients at acceptable update rates for action based gaming.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:40
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By the way MoMA, I chose to ignore thisManofManyAliases posted:1) What is the maximum latency permissible for the game to be playable? (If you don't know the numbers just say FPS-like, Fighting game-like, RTS-like. EVE-like, etc) Because not even fighting games get such low latency numbers. Counter-strike players tend to get 80ms or so, which thanks to dead reckoning (and other) techniques makes the game feel good. trucutru fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 21:41
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Tippis posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnvtgQiaOJ4&t=2335s roughly 39 minutes in — look for the WMP controls at the bottom of the stream feed. Thanks
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Oct 30, 2017 21:44
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trucutru posted:By the way MoMA, I chose to ignore this all the citizens are going to move to an island and play on a lan, this will fulfill their dreams of escaping their ho hum lives by totally immersing in the verse. The leader will be the man (there won't be any women there) with the most jackets on at the same time.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:47
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Danknificent posted:you spend several years waiting for the chips and salsa you know drat well you ain't getting those fajitas no matter how much you paid for them
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Oct 30, 2017 21:57
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TheAgent posted:moma is out surfacing surface detail at this point It warms my heart
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Oct 30, 2017 21:57
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big nipples big life posted:all the citizens are going to move to an island and play on a lan, this will fulfill their dreams of escaping their ho hum lives by totally immersing in the verse. The leader will be the man (there won't be any women there) with the most jackets on at the same time.
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Oct 30, 2017 21:59
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ManofManyAliases posted:Yeah. AWS servers are comprised of 10 u chassis, 16 blades per chassis (4 in a rack), total of 64 blades per rack. At 1 server a blade, that's essentially 64 servers per rack, give or take how they are managing their virtual machines. In 2012, yes. Not now, and you don't get access to the location of your requested services, just the availability zone.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:00
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That's right, I went there. Someone phone the burn unit.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:00
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Running game servers for a non-turn based game on cloud services designed for web services and sites is not feasible. Especially not for an MMO or a shooter/space sim. While getting the servers hosted and (physically) maintained by a third party is a great idea, you do not want them running in someone else's infrastructure. You want full control down of the servers and the network infrastructure. Game servers in the cloud are a cost-cutting measure, with a significant impact on stability and performance. It is not an advantage.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:03
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ManofManyAliases posted:CIG's model (as apparent as it can be currently) is around the sale of UEC. Everything in design, or on the way, supports users purchasing UEC for consumables on a monthly basis. Example: right now, CIG released designs for upgradeable ship components (not less than 3 categories, 4 subsets of each category, and 4 types of consumable per subset). With 48 different consumables possible for ship upgrade components and depending on how often they need to be changed/modified/replaced, people either have to keep up on missions or pirating to obtain UEC, or will resort directly to monthly purchases of UEC. And that is only one type of component in an early design stage. I see the reasoning for the complexity of ships and mechanics as allowing for multi-faceted ways to earn income without the need for a subscription-based model. While subs may still be available post launch, I don't think they'll necessarily be able to sustain costs in and of themselves. So basically Star Citizen is one of those lovely free to play games that's grindy as gently caress, except you have to pay at least $60 for the privilege? Remember when MOMA said that he would be concerned if 3.0 didn't launch in July? Good times. Eldragon fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 22:08
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ManofManyAliases posted:There are still a few bugs preventing a wider PTU release. We're making good progress though - fps has increased greatly. so when will your fps catch up with the server tick rate
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Oct 30, 2017 22:10
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PederP posted:You want full control down of the servers and the network infrastructure. It's one of the reasons why there's a huge loving whining sound that sounds like a million nerds asking about dedicated private servers when a multiplayer game launches. Incidentally a stretch goal for SC. I've teased Moma about googling, but internally AWS is really not like anything that we've seen before because they've been commissioning custom hardware since 2014 when they started throwing up FPGAs, custom GPU solutions and racks filled with disks to handle the sheer load of S3. They have custom network and a private 100Gbit backbone. However... They're beginning to hit a horizon in terms of both going broad and deep. As you point out, they're effectively putting the entire web services/sites industry out of business as they, azure and google compute sweep up the really commodity level of service provision, but they need that vertical appeal to move out of the PAYG service. Games is one of those investment points, but they've been mainly working from the perspective of having to bleed off the money pile into development rather than servicing. Eldragon posted:So basically Star Citizen is one of those lovely free to play games that's grindy as gently caress, except you have to pay at least $60 for the privilege? Other, more expensive options are available. SomethingJones posted:Which according to my layman understanding is why Elite only uses Amazon servers for transactional stuff. Go look for an indication of the _perfomance_ of a T1.micro. You won't actually find a definition beyond some hand-wavey numbers because you're not actually renting a 'machine', but runtime on something that meets your requirements. Accountants hate this one simple trick for making forecasting costs difficult. Seriously, one of the best use cases was a multi-threaded brute-forcer that would map/reduce to autoscaling units, putting a dollar cost on something that was previously prohibitively expensive to do. That literally caused a number of people to poo poo themselves. Hav fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 22:12
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PederP posted:Running game servers for a non-turn based game on cloud services designed for web services and sites is not feasible. Especially not for an MMO or a shooter/space sim. While getting the servers hosted and (physically) maintained by a third party is a great idea, you do not want them running in someone else's infrastructure. You want full control down of the servers and the network infrastructure. Which according to my layman understanding is why Elite only uses Amazon servers for transactional stuff. Moma is this your understanding/speculation of SCs networking you are posting or has this been explained to you by CIG?
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Oct 30, 2017 22:13
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PederP posted:Running game servers for a non-turn based game on cloud services designed for web services and sites is not feasible. Especially not for an MMO or a shooter/space sim. While getting the servers hosted and (physically) maintained by a third party is a great idea, you do not want them running in someone else's infrastructure. You want full control down of the servers and the network infrastructure. Agreed, I don't see AWS as a viable option for this sort of a deployment. Taking into account that this will be one of the most resource intense MMO's to ever be released I can't see it being operable on anything less that a specifically architected hardware solution. There are a very small number of hosting companies that can bring this to fruition and the costs are going to be huge for start up and maintenance of this game. With the design costs for this game as large as they must be there is no room for the hardware solution.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:13
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PederP posted:Running game servers for a non-turn based game on cloud services designed for web services and sites is not feasible. Especially not for an MMO or a shooter/space sim. While getting the servers hosted and (physically) maintained by a third party is a great idea, you do not want them running in someone else's infrastructure. You want full control down of the servers and the network infrastructure. Amazon is trying to get into the game development business so they are definitely going to offer servers that work well with their lumberyard engine. Of course, for most games, the virtual machines do not have to talk to each other as each one only cares about their own game instances. The clusterfuck arising from having multiple interdependent servers running on virtual machines, handling a MMO with FPS requirements (of all things) is gonna be, as the good doctor would say, glorious. trucutru fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 22:15
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monkeytek posted:Agreed, I don't see AWS as a viable option for this sort of a deployment. Hell, Amazon doesn't see AWS as a viable option. Their own FAQ mentions that the service might work for all kinds of back-end stuff (content delivery, user data, maybe persistent storage between sessions), but an live real-time environment is right out.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:20
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trucutru posted:Amazon is trying to get into the game development business so they are definitely going to offer servers that work well with their lumberyard engine. Of course, for most of these games, the virtual machines do not have to talk to each other as each one only cares about their own game instances. Game support business. They don't want to develop games, they want to run them and supply the tools. Owning the ecosystem rather than being one of the herd beasts. Tippis posted:Hell, Amazon doesn't see AWS as a viable option. Their own FAQ mentions that the service might work for all kinds of back-end stuff (content delivery, user data, maybe persistent storage between sessions), but an live real-time environment is right out. Gamelift could be an entrant, but you'd need to go back to effectively supporting a very tight implementation of an architected solution, and that doesn't really fit for Amazon's 80% coverage model. AWS, even Gamelift, is a Dray horse, when they need a flighty Arabian raised on oats and speed. Edit: that was a horse analogy. Hav fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 22:20
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Eldragon posted:So basically Star Citizen is one of those lovely free to play games that's grindy as gently caress, except you have to pay at least $60 for the privilege? ManofManyAliases posted:-We're going to see 3.0 release much earlier than "mid-year."
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Oct 30, 2017 22:20
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