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Alien Rope Burn posted:Well, not so much in my experience, mainly because Brawl-dedicated grapplers will have a bunch of tools that basically end a fight once they're in there, particularly because they generally have a higher strength than most of their targets do, so they can basically own the grapple once it connects. Is it particularly easier to get those Gambit successes than a fight-ending number of lethal health levels, though? That's the real balance point, as far as I can tell.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:12
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Joe Slowboat posted:Is it particularly easier to get those Gambit successes than a fight-ending number of lethal health levels, though? Given you only need 2 successes, yes. Granted, there's also the control roll, but most grapple-focus characters will be able to increase their pool for that trivially. I played a grappling Dawn for awhile, it's gross. There are counters, like being high into Dodge, but if you're mono-focused on Brawl it's likely to take out most things at your XP range in a one-on-one.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:17
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Given you only need 2 successes, yes. Granted, there's also the control roll, but most grapple-focus characters will be able to increase their pool for that trivially. Initiative also acts as a limiter on grapple duration, iirc. It's still not great, but it's definitely better than most grapple systems. Which is a low bar, I must admit. In Exalted I just tell people not to abuse grappling rather than glaring at anyone who so much as thinks about mentioning the grapple rules
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Oct 30, 2017 22:19
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Does any game have proper grapple rules? Another nice thing I will say about Dark*Matter is that its "monster manual" Xenomorphs has a section at the start that is basically 'yeah so animals in the real world tend to do things like try and knock you down and maul you, so here are rules for how that actually works' rather than just 'yeah whatever this thing does two claw attacks and a bite attack each round or something'.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:19
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wiegieman posted:I always thought it was kind of funny that in oWoD the old and crusty vampires hated or didn't understand technology and had people who had people to do that stuff for them, because they're exactly the types who spend all of their time on message boards and chat rooms and never go outside. I mean, I know it's because they're a metaphor for old people who are holding the world back because they literally can't change and have too much money and power to fight, but then the old people all bought smartphones and got on facebook. The technocracy won, and it's kind of great. "The night has come, brothers, we're going to destroy the antediluvians. Not because they're a great threat to the world, but because they discovered the internet and if I have to listen to one more 'meme' from mine, I'm going to pry out my fangs and greet the dawn."
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Oct 30, 2017 22:52
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Ratoslov posted:Obviously, every vampire in your local Ordo Dracul chapter holds hundreds of titles and performs all of their duties themselves, which are fairly light duties when your entire organization can fit in a full-sized van with room for luggage.
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Oct 30, 2017 22:55
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Feinne posted:Another nice thing I will say about Dark*Matter is that its "monster manual" Xenomorphs has a section at the start that is basically 'yeah so animals in the real world tend to do things like try and knock you down and maul you, so here are rules for how that actually works' rather than just 'yeah whatever this thing does two claw attacks and a bite attack each round or something'. . . . kiiiiiiiiiiinda? the book says "animals will try to subdue prey because they know it's easier to kill subdued prey" and then the book re-prints the grappling rules from the core PHB (which are nothing special) and that's it. the implication is that monsters of about animal intelligence will try to focus fire one hero if they can, and try to pin them if they can, because that's roughly how real animals hunt. but that aside, each monster still has a nightmarish stat block (with way too much information that will likely never be relevant to a combat encounter) and they still have dumb stuff like "Bite, Claw (x2)" listed in their attack actions. matter of fact, because of the way that grappling works (here it comes) most monsters are still better off just using their listed attack modes against a hero, rather than wasting time wrestling the hero to the ground first. if anything, the paragraph telling the GM to have animal intellect-level monsters wrestle the heroes first is something of a reprieve for them, because it means they won't necessarily be insta-gibbed by whatever they're facing. for example, let's look at the very first monster in Xenoforms, the Congoraptor - it's basically a raptor that the Kinori keep as a pet like humans would keep a dog. if the raptor follows the provision that it should try and wrestle prey to the ground before attacking, it's going to have to make successful grapple checks on 3 consecutive actions, each at a +1 penalty, in order to pin the target. since they don't have any ranks in attack specialty skills (just the Unarmed broad skill w/ 8 Strength) the raptor is trying to roll 8 or less on d20+d4. not impossible, but certainly not probable. since the raptor is trying to pin the target first, it's not dealing any actual damage to the target while it wrestles with it, because grappling itself doesn't automatically deal damage, and the move that progresses from a grapple into a pin doesn't deal any damage. and, if it doesn't get 3 consecutive successes, it loses ground on the grapple progress, which means it will likely take an extremely long time for the raptor to actually wrestle something to the ground. on the other hand, the Congoraptor normally gets two actions per round and has both Bite and Claw/Claw Rake attacks. the Bite hits on a 12 or less, and each Claw hits on 14 or less, plus both attacks can deal damage, and most importantly mortal damage (if the raptor rolls an amazing success). against a hero with an average Constitution of 8 (meaning the hero can take 8 Wound damage and only 4 Mortal damage before dying) the raptor has a possible chance of killing the hero in one shot on an amazing Claw rake - each claw deals d4+1 mortal damage on an amazing hit, meaning the lowest damage each claw can roll is 2 mortal. granted, the raptor only scores an amazing hit on 3 or less, but that's the best-case one-shot-kill scenario - it can still easily fill up a hero's wound damage track with ordinary or good successes, and then the next attack is overflowing into mortal anyway. from my reading of the situation, the suggestion in Xenoforms that animal-intelligence monsters try to wrestle with heroes before attacking directly is a kludge to keep "ordinary" monster encounters from causing TPKs left, right, and center.
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Oct 30, 2017 23:18
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Halloween Jack posted:The Ordo Dracul is totally one of those fraternal orders in a small town where a plumber, a car salesman, and a retired dentist refer to each other as Knights of the Silver Chalice and Defenders of Christendom and whatever. But they're also vampires with cool super powers. 
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Oct 30, 2017 23:40
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The singular issue with nWoD vampires not regularly eating normal food is the ensuing lack of The Great Ordo Dracul Monthly Fish Fry.
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Oct 30, 2017 23:45
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Freaking Crumbum posted:. . . kiiiiiiiiiiinda? Oh yeah the actual rules are in practice not so great, I just liked that they even bothered to point out that animals don't really work the way they're generally modeled in rpgs (before doing it themselves).
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Oct 31, 2017 01:37
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Mr. Maltose posted:The singular issue with nWoD vampires not regularly eating normal food is the ensuing lack of The Great Ordo Dracul Monthly Fish Fry. So fun fact, the Coil of Flesh actually lets Ordo vampires eat food normally when they're using their blood mojo to mimic normal life (pulse, flushed skin, etc.) So, that could absolutely still be a thing 
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Oct 31, 2017 01:58
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Daeren posted:So fun fact, the Coil of Flesh actually lets Ordo vampires eat food normally when they're using their blood mojo to mimic normal life (pulse, flushed skin, etc.) So, that could absolutely still be a thing "WITNESS AS WE DEMONSTRATE OUR MASTERY OF OUR CURSE!" *Devours a funnel cake*.
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Oct 31, 2017 02:07
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Night10194 posted:"WITNESS AS WE DEMONSTRATE OUR MASTERY OF OUR CURSE!" *Devours a funnel cake*. I would spend decades transcending the suffering of immortality if it was the only way to eat funnel cake again.
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Oct 31, 2017 02:26
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wiegieman posted:I would spend decades transcending the suffering of immortality if it was the only way to eat funnel cake again. There have been many less worthy epic vampiric projects.
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Oct 31, 2017 02:34
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*turf war starts when the Lancea Et Sanctum schedules it’s Pancake Brunch for the same time*
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Oct 31, 2017 02:49
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Dueling Vampire Shriners/Elk Clubs sounds like a fun break from Vampire Gangsters.
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Oct 31, 2017 02:50
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Golconda is actually a sandwich.
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Oct 31, 2017 03:04
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 Last Exodus the Interactive Story Arc of the Third and Last Dance is a roleplaying game from Synister Creative Systems published in 2001 and designed Sean and Joshua Jaffe. It’s a metaplot heavy, playing card deck using, religious themed urban grunge game. Unless I am otherwise notified it appears to be completely out of print with no digital versions available. Should this be incorrect I will update to include where it can be bought to give the original developers income. Part 9: One Stat to Rule Them All After that grueling 24 pages that could have been 12 paragraphs, it’s time for the next step in the process of character creation, which you guessed it, is just a raw slurry of more fluff mixed with a light touch of actual rules. This entire section is staggeringly labyrinthine, and as confusing as it can possible be, with rules laid out wherever they can and naturalistic language failing every single place it possibly can. The word “regular” without any appendation or explanation is the enemy of all things gaming and TLE loves it. Let’s get down to it though, after picking what “religion” of 250-300 people we join it’s time to pick our characters Soul Order. It turns out that GODHEAD organizes all souls into 12 orders that describe both the Soul’s nature as well as some abilities they usually have. The game then mentions that Eden uses the system even though it’s from GODHEAD because [error: reason not found] and that Eden actually has thousands of Soul Orders so these 12 presented aren't inclusive of all the options in the game. In one of the Soul Order descriptions it then fires another volley at the core conciet of the game by a) introducing Heaven as a real place that isn’t Eden and b) noting that Heaven-Eden-Earth are but one of literally infinite sets pocket dimensions with their own clone-able Gods that can be traveled between so why does literally anybody give a poo poo about choosing to support GODHEAD or Ahura Mazda?  I told you, if we got you a pet you’d have to take it for walks Art by: Frank B. Fallon These Soul Orders, mechanically, have lots of overlaps with each other, designed so that each overlaps about 90% of its content with three other Soul Orders and has one unique to it power. Since there is no progression to these powers and you can pick a Soul Order’s unique skill at character creation you better pick a Soul Order with a kick-rear end one. Compare getting items from a list of "onboard weapons" when no such list exists against becoming immune to all "regular" damage in a game where that isn't a defined term so presumably everything does regular damage, do so instantly at will, do so with no time limit on the ability, and with no indication you can't attack while using it. By the way, you won’t find out until fifty seven pages from now but the game as written doesn’t ever let you buy more of these skills, so you need to pick right at character creation. See XP can give you more points but the game notes those points can only be spent during character creation so I guess sit on your points like a points dragon. You might further be wondering, hey, if I buy these graces, what points do I buy them with? Well you use the stats that aren’t introduced until after this section, then cross reference a single paragraph that occurs forty pages after the introduction of Soul Orders and sixteen pages after introducing stats, in between two short sections covering things that have no relation to Soul Orders.  Where are you dodging to? Art By: Frank B. Fallon Finally, though, it is time to alot our character stat points. In TLE, you have 4 stats; Physical, Spiritual, Mental, and Cultural. Amongst these 4 stats you have 16 points to split among them any way that you please with a 1:1 point per stat increase, with a cap of 10 in any given stat. The game doesn’t mention it right now when it should, but there are some derived scores from these such that if you don't point any points into physical you'd have 0 HP and would instantly die and go to Eden where if you have 0 points in Spiritual you double die and your character is dead forever instantly. If you curious what these stats do or how high you should reasonably be putting them, don't worry, you're 30+ more pages away from finding out what the game’s resolution system is not that it works there either. You're also about 10+ pages away from finding out that those 16 points only reflect your stats on Earth. To determine your stats on Eden, no real math is required, you just add you score in that stat + your Spiritual stat. Remember how most Hearstakers make Dex the God stat? TLE’s Spiritual stat is about to cordially invite them to eat it. I’m pulling from across the book, but let’s end this part by taking a look at everything the Spiritual stat counts for. Spirit Stat Influences
The only reason you wouldn’t just shovel your points into Spiritual is because you plan to run a game that only takes place on Earth, and even then you need to put one point into it so that when you die on Earth you don’t instantly double die on reaching Eden. Next Time: Proficiency: Sex *Duh, but still, it does it **You do need the other stats to determine if you can use those spells on Earth, but since you take an immediate 50% penalty to all attempts to using spells on Earth and requires you spending very limited points on that it’s a trap option of the finest sense of the word.
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Oct 31, 2017 03:11
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Simian_Prime posted:*turf war starts when the Lancea Et Sanctum schedules it’s Pancake Brunch for the same time*
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Oct 31, 2017 03:12
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megane posted:Golconda is actually a sandwich. Pro: superhuman strength and senses, nigh immortality, magic. Cons: no more chicken and dumplings with buttermilk biscuits and buttered cornbread. Push: humans.
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Oct 31, 2017 03:42
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The vampire who makes up some kind of freaky blood sorcery letting them taste what a human it's used on is eating will be able to set their price to any buyer in the world. The shadow war for control over it will be the fiercest conflict in history.
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Oct 31, 2017 04:47
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You've had the cronut, now try the blonut! Memo: work on name
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Oct 31, 2017 04:54
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Halloween Jack posted:You've had the cronut, now try the blonut! Is that available creme-filled or frosted? And does it come pre-wrapped?
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Oct 31, 2017 06:15
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One of the weird things about nWoD vampires is a section I remember that basically said, "Oh, and vampires don't have souls, so they can't experience new emotions. They think they are, but are actually just remembering emotions from times when they were alive." Well, that and the, "If your vampire sees another vampire they'll flip their poo poo out like sticking two strange cats in a bag together." rule. For the former it struck me like they were just trying to be edgy about it but provided a real issue with actually managing to roleplay a creature where you have to think up what past event occurred that its every emotional stimuli calls back to. So, Reginald is quite upset, but is he upset like when Snookums died and his parents told him she ran away but she hadn't run away she died, or is he upset like when Mandy turned him down for prom? Because it must be a memory of a previous emotion. For the latter, it really kills the whole sleek mover and shaker predator of the night thing when your savvy power broker shows up to meet another vampire, then shrieks, throws a couch through a window, and runs away because you hosed up the roll not to freak out. I could see calling for that sort of roll when unexpectedly finding a strange vampire right in your face, but as I recall the rules required the roll for encountering any vampire regardless of circumstances, with penalties for unfavorable scenarios. Both of those put a burden on the game without any particularly worthwhile payoff. I like nWoD Vampire in general, though I'm nostalgic for the original clans, but here and there it dropped the ball.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:22
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I quite like the idea that vampire emotion is basically deadened and delusional, because A. Only players really dedicated to playing weird inhuman characters will actually do that at all, and B. It very strongly supports the thematic content of the game. Vampires are hideous predators passing as human, and their apparently human emotions are just them going through the motions. Only the thirst and the fear of the sun are real. Which leads to the second thing, which is that they're predatory monsters at base and this 'new vampire staring contest' is meant to enforce that. I think it's overstated and wouldn't enforce the RAW; something like a one or two die social penalty if you lose rather than full fight-or-flight makes more sense. Maybe a condition.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:29
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I think Undying does it better. When two vampires meet (whether they know each other or not) their immediate instinct is to figure out which of them is higher on the pecking order. So instead of going nuts and running away, instead you just realize instinctively that this guy is bigger, faster, and cooler than you, and could probably feed you your own shoes if he wanted to, which he very well might. Now, what do you say to him?
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Oct 31, 2017 06:42
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Joe Slowboat posted:I quite like the idea that vampire emotion is basically deadened and delusional, because A. Only players really dedicated to playing weird inhuman characters will actually do that at all, and B. It very strongly supports the thematic content of the game. Vampires are hideous predators passing as human, and their apparently human emotions are just them going through the motions. Only the thirst and the fear of the sun are real. I do also feel like it's deliberately tacking massively against the thrust of like, all vampire fiction produced within living memory, up to and including the original ending of "I Am Legend." (The Will Smith one.) e: I'll walk this back but it seems like in just about every work of fiction featuring vampires as anything other than "monsters to kill," the vampires may have been bad people but they were people, not just monomaniacal blood-hungry zombies with unusually clever native intelligence. Nessus fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 06:55
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It depends. The original Dracula was written in mind that Dracula lives mostly on instinct rather than reason, which is why he often acts stupid or predictable despite setting up a very complex plot and maintaining his lifestyle himself. And it's implied he has his poo poo together better than any other vampire, the other ones are shown as basically semi-sentient predators. And a lot of old vampire lore centres around behavioural quirks and strange taboos; can't navigate crossroads, has to count grains of rice, has to ask permission to enter a dwelling, and so on. There's a very uncanny valley effect to it taken all together, quite likely literally so; a loss of impulse control combined with remembered impulses and habits of etiquette turned into compulsions.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:47
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Inescapable Duck posted:It depends. The original Dracula was written in mind that Dracula lives mostly on instinct rather than reason, which is why he often acts stupid or predictable despite setting up a very complex plot and maintaining his lifestyle himself. And it's implied he has his poo poo together better than any other vampire, the other ones are shown as basically semi-sentient predators. You also have to look at more recent fiction - if you built vampires with Dracula as your model you would end up with some badass motherfuckers, if with some strict limitations.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:59
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So which system best does that "You are now a wild beast barely hanging on to the habits and norms of humans, real actual humanity you will never have."? I feel that nWOD is too much crunch and not enough descriptive prose mechanics .
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Oct 31, 2017 10:15
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:So which system best does that "You are now a wild beast barely hanging on to the habits and norms of humans, real actual humanity you will never have."?
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Oct 31, 2017 11:13
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:So which system best does that "You are now a wild beast barely hanging on to the habits and norms of humans, real actual humanity you will never have."? Beast You are all terrible loving people, the worst, so far beyond the pale that all you are is a pathetic mockery of human empathy hiding an insatiable hunger for the pain and misery of others. And you have absolutely no idea that you are one and have a combined superiority and inferiority complex about it. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 11:37
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Nessus posted:What's the goal here? Like are you trying to do Trainspotting But Vampires? That's a better concept than what I had. But playing a narrative in which the everyone is awful like how some people play paranoia or 40k could work. E: with bits of pathos Shadow Of The Vampire posted:[Asked what he thought of the book, Dracula] By popular demand fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 12:20
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Hams vamps are interesting in that they're inherently passionate and actively seek out drama. They're emotionally deadened in the sense that the shedding of blood holds none of the normal human revulsion or hesitation for them, and they tend to become much more self-centered, but their condition also tends to intentionally make them into enormous hams. Also, I think Warhammer Vampires are, aside from Orcs, the only 'bad guy' who is generally quite happy. E: I think the best way I've ever seen a Warhammer Vampire described is that every single one of them assumes they're the main character of whatever story they're in.
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Oct 31, 2017 12:21
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Both the 'deadened emotions' thing and the 'flip out and kill each other on sight' thing got dropped from nVampire 2e entirely, as a note.
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Oct 31, 2017 12:22
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Mors Rattus posted:Both the 'deadened emotions' thing and the 'flip out and kill each other on sight' thing got dropped from nVampire 2e entirely, as a note. Good. I don't think WoD vamps needed any *more* help being awkward and anti-social.
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Oct 31, 2017 12:25
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Does anyone actually enjoy that oWOD whiney goth style (and is not a horribly broken person IRL)?
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Oct 31, 2017 13:39
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Does anyone actually enjoy that oWOD whiney goth style (and is not a horribly broken person IRL)? as a passive observer and someone who has never owned a white wolf book, nor played a white wolf game, the oWoD whiney goth style is funny as all hell to watch. it stops being a hilarious trainwreck and becomes insipid drivel when the WoD starts to take itself seriously and turns into super heroes with fangs in black leather.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:14
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A fallen paladin can atone and redeem themselves by praying before The Deck of Encounters Set One Part 14: The Deck of Sprites, Stones, Tritons, and Troglodytes Try to keep your expectations extra low for this batch, folks.  88: Slumber Party The PCs hear snoring in a lovely meadow. It’s six orcs deep in magical slumber. Investigation will turn up tiny arrows, which druids and rangers will recognize as those used by sprites. The sprites are still around, watching invisibly. If the PCs kill the orcs, the sprites get upset but don’t attack; if a ranger or druid addresses them, the sprites’ spokesperson just asks them to leave. So there are no interesting choices or interactions for the PCs here at all? Is that what we’re saying? Then I’m not going to bother. Pass. 89: Swimming Hole The PCs are approaching a lake. “The DM should emphasize that the area is peaceful and serene, with no dangers anywhere apparent,” because the DM really wants the players to never trust them again. There are 40 nixies in the pool who try to charm four PCs and lure them into the water to serve them for a year. Other party members might be able to trade favors/mini-quests to the nixies to get party members back. A by-the-book nixie encounter. Is there value in just reminding me that nixies exist and that this is what they do? Not enough, no. Pass. 90: Intruders A storm hits the PCs’ ship and blows it into triton territory. Seven of them will ride up on giant sea horses and interrogate the PCs round-robin style (they’re fairly democratic, apparently, with no firm leader). “The characters will need to exercise all of the charm and diplomatic skill they possess to avoid being stripped of ail their possessions and set adrift, at the mercy of the sea.” Other than the storm by fiat, this is another straight-out-of-the-MM encounter. Also, it has false tension - after arbitrarily declaring that the PCs’ ship has been blown off course, is the DM really going to be such a dick that the tritons won’t just let the PCs go in the end? Talking their way out just feels like a chore for the PCs and the DM. Pass. 91: A Light in the Darkness Camping in a forest at night, a PC might notice light coming from the west. It’s a steady glow. They find it in the hands of a skeleton outside the mouth of the cave. It’s a stone with continual light cast on it, that AD&D flashlight-replacing staple of adventurers and anachronistic fantasy city streetlamps. “What the cave might hold is something for the DM to decide. It might lead into mysterious dungeons, be a secret passage to the castle of the local noble, or simply be an old bear cave, the bear having moved on months ago.” So… basically there’s no encounter at all. No gameplay besides “the PCs pick up a rock.” The card is saying, “hey, you could put something interesting in front of the PCs now! Or not. Whatever.” Pass. 92: Ambush Not to be confused with #25: Ambush. This is a different ambush. Anyway, there’s a mountain pass, and the PCs are attacked by 16 camouflaged troglodytes. If the PCs kill more than half, they’ll retreat, but will probably attack again, “coming in increasing numbers.” They’ll use rockslides if necessary. The PCs are supposed to realize that they should probably book it out of the mountains. Per the Monstrous Manual, “Their favorite tactic is to pick a well-trod mountain or subterranean path and then use their chameleon power to blend in with the surrounding rocks.” So this card is just telling me that troglodytes attack, in their favored terrain, using their favored tactics.  Pass.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:18
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Freaking Crumbum posted:as a passive observer and someone who has never owned a white wolf book, nor played a white wolf game, the oWoD whiney goth style is funny as all hell to watch. it stops being a hilarious trainwreck and becomes insipid drivel when the WoD starts to take itself seriously and turns into super heroes with fangs in black leather.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:30
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