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Invisible 2 x 4 is the sort of treasure more games need.
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Nov 1, 2017 17:06
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Barudak posted:I do not to this day understand how David Cage parlayed "Wrote the music for Time Cop for the SNES" into a lead development gig but he did and Omikron is the first step on his journey of somehow falling upward. Kavak posted:I will never understand how he got another game after Omikron, but Indigo Prophecy was a unique experience and really against the video game grain in 2004 (plus things only fell apart at about the halfway point), so I can see how that took off, and then Heavy Rain had actual quality parts and none of his supernatural nonsense tropes. Ironically, he even took out a "psychic link" plot thread and created a gaping hole in the story. (thx ettin)
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Nov 1, 2017 17:07
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Dallbun posted:95: The Repulsive Ring This one's salvageable, I think. Have the ring in an enclosed room where it can't get away, but maybe they'll run into traps or environmental hazards trying to catch it. Somewhere in the room they can find a note or clues to a command word that toggles its enchantments on and off, allowing them to take the ring and use it for their own shenanigans later.
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Nov 1, 2017 17:25
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David Cage is the Lars Von Trier of video games
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Nov 1, 2017 17:49
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ZorajitZorajit posted:David Cage is the Lars Von Trier of video games Lars Von Trier movies have endings. Not having seen all of them they probably also dont have White Savior tropes.
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Nov 1, 2017 17:52
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Lars is as insufferable and pretentious as cage but he actually makes something really good once in a blue moon. E: both have absolutely no idea how human personality works.
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Nov 1, 2017 18:22
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My best pal: "When people say things like 'Oh, I'm not racist, I hate everyone,' I don't believe that. Like, you love your wife or whoever, right? So you really are racist. But Lars Von Trier, eh, I think he really does just hate everyone."
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Nov 1, 2017 18:29
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Lars is as insufferable and pretentious as cage but he actually makes something really good once in a blue moon. and Lars probably doesn't have a loving shrine including photos of the person as an eight-year old. I'm surprised Ellen Page didn't mace the gently caress out of him the moment he showed her his Ellen Page Shrine.
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Nov 1, 2017 18:32
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Joe Slowboat posted:See, I found the invisible 2x4 the point at which it went from 'humorous wizard prank' (a ring with Avoidance and Continual Light is an amusing object for about five minutes) to 'why would you ever do this' Yeah, that was the exact moment I suddenly became irrationally angry. If the ring just bounced around the room, or even out of the room into the hall, thus potentially alerting monsters, I might have looked more kindly upon it. Point taken about the invisible plank, though. Clearly I'm not thinking enough like a player.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:17
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Going through SBF Omikron LP because of this thread and how did that rear end in a top hat get to make an another game? Uwe Boll at least knew how to game the German tax code or something and people who handle video game movie licences don't give a poo poo. Derek Smart was never picked up by a big company as far as I'm aware of. But Omikron is pretentious to the level where Beyond: Two Hobos seems tame and is nigh unplayable.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:24
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Remember his credit prior to Omikron was was writing music for the game Time Cop. What im saying is unless he has a nigh on inconcievable amount of blackmail nobody knows. Also his games seem to sell well to new generations of people who havent learned that all his games have extremely polished first hours and then absolutely nothing else.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:39
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Cage's other advantage is he talks a lot like an auteur film director. There's a whole industry built around fawning over the "difficult genius" of directors and holding it up as important, serious work, as opposed to pretentious bullshit. That's doubly beneficial when the comparison is with other famous game developers, such as oh say Cliff Bleszinski.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:57
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Cage's other advantage is he talks a lot like an auteur film director. There's a whole industry built around fawning over the "difficult genius" of directors and holding it up as important, serious work, as opposed to pretentious bullshit. That's doubly beneficial when the comparison is with other famous game developers, such as oh say Cliff Bleszinski. and you find with the Auteurs they gleefully overlook and even celebrate gross sexism and racism because it's "real" and "deep", and not that Cage is a racist fuckhead who has an inordinate fondness for putting women in positions where they're threaten with sexual violence.
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Nov 1, 2017 21:59
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 Last Exodus the Interactive Story Arc of the Third and Last Dance is a roleplaying game from Synister Creative Systems published in 2001 and designed Sean and Joshua Jaffe. It’s a metaplot heavy, playing card deck using, religious themed urban grunge game. Unless I am otherwise notified it appears to be completely out of print with no digital versions available. Should this be incorrect I will update to include where it can be bought to give the original developers income. Part 11: It Truly is a Miracle After Spells come Miracles because apparently TLE is the Dark Souls of bad games. These are a special categories of not-spells that are based off, once again, your Spiritual stat. When I say these are special, I mean unlike spells they can be used freely on Earth as well as Eden with no penalty, without followers* you can only carry one at a time, and they aren't just damage or healing; they are all game-destroying roleplay effects. That isn’t hyperbole, one miracle lets anything you say be true without any limitations. The game even includes examples that are extremely broad in scope, impossible for players to achieve on their own merits, and without any time condition to them so there is far as I can tell no reason a player couldn't say "We win the game" and just go home. Miracles, due to their powerful nature, are supposed to have severe limitations which the game promptly trips over down a staircase made entirely of other, smaller staircases to trip down. Miracles are supposed to be extremely hard to gain, take a long time to cast, extremely difficult to earn a second casting, and are sense-able by other scions and thus counterable by them. Well in the description of how to earn them it notes that earning one is the very first thing all new player characters would be expected to do as a rite of initiation. The game forgot to give them any casting time so as written they’re all instantaneous. TLE does remember they should be hard to gain back and makes it so earning a fresh casting takes completing an entire story line of play sessions, but then it says you also should get one every month that passes in game. Lastly, only one miracle has any listed counter-miracle, and since that one miracle is the one that lets anything you want be true, guess what it’s no longer counterable. There is one last “check” on using Miracles all willy-nilly. The game notes miracles can be used in good or evil ways, but sadly it’s up to your Director to decide how you used it. Use miracles too much against your alignment and you undergo a “Secondary Apotheosis”. If you’re worried about that, there are six miracles at the end of this section that are considered neutral, but surprise surprise one of them notes it is intrinsically good because editing is hard. The game provides some examples of using a miracle for good or evil, and for evil TLE provides using mind control to have sex with a minor so, hey gently caress YOU TLE. So what is Secondary Apotheosis, exactly? In TLE it’s a fancy term for switching between being an offspring of Ahura Mazda and a offspring of GODHEAD. Congratulations, TLE, you’ve created a mechanic that undermines your setting while simultaneously blowing up a player’s written backstory and character motivations. If it’s not obvious, other than destroying fluff there is absolutely no mechanical impact of this change other than opening you up to another Secondary Apotheosis in the other direction. If I sound like a broken record at the moment its because also, obviously, there are no rules for indicating what triggers a Secondary Apotheosis mechanically, so it can never actually occur no matter how incorrectly you use your miracles unless your Director decides it does. That all said, let’s highlight one specific miracle for being more poorly thought out than the one that lets you instantly win. There is a miracle in the game that requires the investment of a scant six points of Spirituality that lets you create new souls. Yes, that is right, with less than half your starting stat points your character can have the power that makes Ahura Mazda the creator God of the setting. TLE in a rare moment of cognizance recognizes this is absolutely insane according to its own story and has a callout that points out that not even GODHEAD can do this and being unable to do so is a major reason why it rebelled. If you thought that it would do something about that, never fear, there’s no sentence after that. TLE points out to you that this ability ruins its own setting and then paragraph unceremoniously ends, never to be referenced again.  Alas poor yorrick, we have to ride the bus. Art By: Peter Johnson Finally, you know what the most mandatory part of any Heartstaker is? No, it is not supernatural things hiding from society at large and attempting to mesh their opposed experiences; it is a point buy advantage and disadvantage system! TLE, of course, takes it to the same level of excess that it has done everything else with. Here, you balance your human body advantages with your Deiform disadvantages and your Deiform advantages with your human body disadvantages. Reminder, the entirety of present day Earth gets thirteen paragraphs so maybe take that into consideration when deciding which of your forms to dump all the penalties onto. I don’t think anyone is going to be surprised that very little here has any actual mechanical significance, either because the sentence has no qualification or because such rules don’t exist in the game. We’re talking “people view you as more truthful” and “you have a good relationship with a business” kind of useless. Of course, on the flipside a few of these 50 or so advantages are completely brokenly good and mechanically defined. We’re talking for the price of talking funny, treat every combat roll as though you have 5 more points in that skill in a game where 10 is the natural maximum a character can have. There’s also some rather obvious editing errors, such as repeating section headers for different sections. I want to also mention that an annoyingly large portion of these are purely cosmetic things which until we reached this section I’d assume we’d have gotten to choose when the game said “imagine your concept”. If you want to be 6 foot anything or older or younger than about 35 you have to take an advantage/disadvantage. Want to be a little doughy, have a sonorous voice, or ambidextrous? Time to pay for the privilege. Of course, beyond sabotaging your character concept. what would a section like this be without a mixture of embarrassing, unpleasant, and actively detrimental options? If you’re that creepy weirdo at the table, enjoy taking the perk "well endowed". If you’re an actively lovely person you can role play as a bigot, or get points back for being a sexual and ethnic minority, or combine all three if you really want to make your table ask you to leave. If you’re not here to play the game and have fun, you can choose to have your character be bound without free will to a powerful soul. Honestly, let’s just copy the absolute most egregious one: ”Doomed - You’re gonna die. Badly. Time is running out for your character, and you know that at some point very soon something Godawful is going to happen to you and the best you can hope is that your friends don’t get caught in the crossfire. The Director can feel free to put the screws to you with unholy glee.”  No, friend Goat Goblin, this unit does not understand how your watch tells time inside a bar Art By: Corinne Hall Thanks to one of these disadvantages I noticed that I might have interpreted one of the rules for stat distribution earlier incorrectly. I think you’re not supposed to get your Spiritual score in every stat while in Eden, rather, you have that many bonus points to split across the other stats. I.e., if you have 10 spiritual you can allocate 8 bonus points to Physical and 2 bonus points to Mental while in Eden but then you’re out instead of a free 10 to all three stats. It makes more sense to do this, but still makes Spiritual the best thing to dump 10 points into. I’m going to note now that the only statted NPCs in the game aren’t built using the Spiritual score this way, but they also fail to follow any of the other rules of this game so I should probably learn my lesson and just assume they don’t reflect the rules of the game at all. Thankfully, once you finish reading the last of the advantages/disadvantages, the game just sort of decides it’s completely done having us build a character. It then ends the entire character creation section with three basically unrelated single paragraphs. The first explains how to calculate our health even though it’s almost verbatim copy pasted at the beginning of the system section. The second is two entire sentences telling you to make up your holy symbol as whatever you think is cool and telling you there is space on your character sheet to draw it since it has no mechanical impact at all. The third is an invitation to turn the page to learn how to play the game which isn’t actually true, there’s a two page art splash and fluff piece first, then the rules. Fun fact about the last thirty four pages of the book entitled “System”:; only six of those pages are actually rules on the game’s mechanics. Sigh, TTLESTIODASDSDF Next Time: Wherein Everything Goes Horribly Wrong *You can buy followers at character creation or earn them from the Director for being cool. If you buy them at character creation it costs one stat point per follower. It takes 10 followers to get any mechanical benefit. Instead of buying them using your stats, however, there is an advantage which grants 10 followers. TTLESTIODASDSDF Barudak fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 04:12
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Barudak posted:
Every single update of this game has been mindboggling. So, here's my note for this update. I think this might be an illegal usage of the Chuck E. Cheese brand slogan. Possibly intentionally obscured by the game title banner?
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Nov 2, 2017 04:25
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I honestly tell that it would be easier to play a game using a cookbook than this mess. Tastier too.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:29
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:I honestly tell that it would be easier to play a game using a cookbook than this mess. Tastier too. and you're not likely to end up with hurt feelings when baking peanut butter fudge.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:38
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Ah, I remember the good old days, gleefully putting an Advantage and Disadvantage system in my first entirely home-brewed system about ordinary humans fighting the hidden occult across the 20th century. Why, I used a D20 and like 9 different 1-6 stats, then a 1-10 skill system (Stat+Skill+D20, 15 was the 'hard' check and a +5 total in a skill generally meant a PC was a professional) with too many detailed firearms tables and a cobbled-together sanity system. I had no idea I was making the game that had been made dozens of times. All these 90s Urban Fantasy games really take me back.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:53
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Night10194 posted:Ah, I remember the good old days, gleefully putting an Advantage and Disadvantage system in my first entirely home-brewed system about ordinary humans fighting the hidden occult across the 20th century. Why, I used a D20 and like 9 different 1-6 stats, then a 1-10 skill system (Stat+Skill+D20, 15 was the 'hard' check and a +5 total in a skill generally meant a PC was a professional) with too many detailed firearms tables and a cobbled-together sanity system. I had no idea I was making the game that had been made dozens of times. Your game in the paragraph you provided has a more playable rule set than what TLE is about to trot out so please don't taunt me with mechanics with any semblance of thought behind them.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:57
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Barudak posted:Your game in the paragraph you provided has a more playable rule set than what TLE is about to trot out so please don't taunt me with mechanics with any semblance of thought behind them. The most baffling part of 90s urban fantasy games is the batshit insane dice mechanics. You'd think if you wanted to get 'roll playing' out of the way and let people bask in ambience you'd just use a simple percentile or d20 or whatever so you could resolve mechanics faster. I mean, gently caress, All Flesh Must Be Eaten totally rules and its a very simple d10 based system.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:02
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I just can't move on from my cookbook joke. Mmm All animal flesh must be eaten : a dinner roll playing game.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:17
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Night10194 posted:The most baffling part of 90s urban fantasy games is the batshit insane dice mechanics. You'd think if you wanted to get 'roll playing' out of the way and let people bask in ambience you'd just use a simple percentile or d20 or whatever so you could resolve mechanics faster. Not all 90s systems had broken dice mechanics. FUDGE had its very straightforward 4DF bell curve, and Godlike introduced the One Roll Engine (which is the system that all those Stupid Dice Tricks system think they are).
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Nov 2, 2017 05:44
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:I just can't move on from my cookbook joke. We don't want roll players here; get out.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:56
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I imagine there's a sizeable helping of not really understanding how probability works thrown in there, too. A lot of them seem to think that having convoluted dice rules will somehow make the results more unpredictable or more dramatic or more "natural" in some way, when in fact from a mathematical standpoint it's usually exactly the opposite.
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Nov 2, 2017 06:07
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I'm the godspawn using the power of a reality bending miracle to convince a busty 17-year-old to have sex with me. My deiform is a couch on fire.
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Nov 2, 2017 06:53
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Before we can traverse the Deck of Encounters, Set two, we need to make some characters. Suggestions taken, here are their stat lines, and which special classes they qualify for. 1. 7, 14, 12, 8, 14, 10 2. 13, 17, 8, 10, 12, 10 - Bard, Druid, Illusionist, Paladin, Speciality Wizard 3. 10, 14, 10, 14, 14, 15 - Ranger, Druid, Bard, Speciality Wizard 4. 7, 14, 12, 8, 10, 12 5. 14, 11, 12, 17, 14, 13 - Paladin, Ranger, Druid, Illusionist, Bard, Speciality Wizard One of the two boring lines will probably be used to make a multiclass demihuman character. Will be using Weapon Specialisation and Secondary Skills. PHB only for now.
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Nov 2, 2017 08:31
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I want a Paladin on the #2 statline. I basically know nothing about the game, but give us a Paladin.
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Nov 2, 2017 08:39
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Night10194 posted:The most baffling part of 90s urban fantasy games is the batshit insane dice mechanics. You'd think if you wanted to get 'roll playing' out of the way and let people bask in ambience you'd just use a simple percentile or d20 or whatever so you could resolve mechanics faster. I wonder if at least part of the issue is that simple d20 rolls were the hallmark of D&D (for a given value of simple) and simple percentile rolls were Runequest/BRP/CoC. If you wanted to establish that your game was Not Like That then you needed a new, fancy dice mechanic.
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Nov 2, 2017 09:44
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Angrymog posted:
 Human fighter. quote:2. 13, 17, 8, 10, 12, 10 - Bard, Druid, Illusionist, Paladin, Speciality Wizard  Some kind of hosed up specialty wizard. I'm not sure what that block qualifies for. Oh, and human... more or less. e: On second thought... make him a Paladin.
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Nov 2, 2017 09:55
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FMguru posted:I call 'em Stupid Dice Tricks and they're a mainstay of 1990s design. I'm convinced they're equal parts 1) cargo-culting Storyteller/Vampire (which was itself a bad copy of the wonky Shadowrun 1E dice engine) and 2) an attempt to obfuscate how broken the system is while also appearing "simple". Roll and Keep, moving target numbers, different kinds of success, and (my favorite) mixing different types of dice (Alternity was really good for that). Like the dice mixing in theory is a great way to generate really weird distributions of random numbers but having actually played Alternity it IS a bit cumbersome.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:36
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So my idea* to denote ability levels by dice type and skills by amount of dice thrown, with equipment giving additional dice A Bad Thing? *Stolen from Ambush Alley "4+ is a success and stuff" system.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:49
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JcDent posted:So my idea* to denote ability levels by dice type and skills by amount of dice thrown, with equipment giving additional dice A Bad Thing? do you consider replicating the Deadlands dice mechanic wholesale to be "A Bad Thing"? because that's literally what you just described. FMguru posted:and (my favorite) mixing different types of dice (Alternity was really good for that). mixing different dice types was such a crazy inclusion in a roll under system. just having a basic -1 bonus modifier to a skill was effectively the same as having 2 more ranks in the skill, or essentially increased your Ordinary success range by 2 and your Good success range by 1. If you could somehow milk a -3 bonus modifier on a roll, that essentially increased your Ordinary success range by 4, your Good success range by 2, and your Amazing success range by 1. it wasn't set in stone, because your -3 bonus die could come up a 1 (lowest result), or your -1 bonus die might roll a 4 (highest result) but on average having any kind of bonus to your roll was A Very Good Thing TM. It also made you character's defense Resistance Modifiers way more important than whatever other armor or defensive measures they had, because your Resistance Modifier is directly applied to an opponent's skill check as penalty dice, and the best defense is never getting hit in the first place.
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Nov 2, 2017 14:00
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Floating in the Ethereal is the infamous Demiplane of The Deck of Encounters Set One Part 16: The Deck of Mystery and Marching Bands We’ve reached a milestone! No Wyverns, Xorns, or, Zaratans at the moment - that Unicorn encounter was the last of the alphabetical monster encounter cards. What wonders might occur next? Even I do not know. That’s the beauty of... the Deck of Encounters. 98: Dangerous Crossing There’s a huge, 50-foot deep chasm in a sparsely-travelled region. And obviously there’s a rickety little bridge going over it that hasn’t been maintained for decades but is ready to start breaking apart right now when the PCs put more than 1000 pounds of weight on it (“a light horse and a rider,” says the text). At least it doesn’t collapse immediately unless there’s more than 1250 pounds (a fat horse and a rider, or a light horse and a fat rider). Wholly uninteresting. Pass. 99: The Talking Well A town square, surrounded by shops but feeling strangely empty. There’s a covered stone well in the center. A talking frog (escaped magical experiment) fell down it and can’t get out. When he called up to the townsfolk, they thought the well was haunted, even though the things he’s calling up are “could one of you please lower the bucket?” and so on. In fact, the card says the PCs should save vs Paralysis (at +4) or flee when they hear the voice echoing out of the well! That seems fairly ridiculous. The main question here is, do you want to introduce a powerless but talking frog as a NPC? For the kind of goofy AD&D 2E campaign implied by many of these cards, I’m leaning towards “yes.” Keep. 100: The Marching Band There’s a dungeon corridor with a silver and gold (marching) baton stuck upright in the middle of the hall. If the PCs pick it up, two portals open, one on each wall, and a 20th-century marching band starts walking out of one and through the other, playing music. Sharp-eyed observers will notice that any given performer reappears out of the first portal about five rounds after leaving through the second. Okay, you say, that’s ordinary enough. Happens all the time. But here’s where it gets weird. The Marching Band posted:If the PCs try to move through the strange band, they must each make a Dexterity check at -4. If they succeed, they manage to force their way through the crowd; if they fail, they are forced into the right-hand portal. Only their bodies go through the portal. Their minds are instantly transported into the body of one of the band members. The PCs can continue through the crowd, but must make a Dexterity check at -8. Each time the body passes through the portal, their minds are transported into a new body. It takes 1d20 rounds to get back into the original body, and the PCs may force their way through the crowd without further danger of being forced through the portal. Any borrowed body eventually reverts to the PC's old body. What? What?  This is almost like something out of Anomalous Subsurface Environment, which I love, but it’s even more gonzo and is executed incredibly awkwardly, confusingly, and somehow with no consequences whatsoever. Pass, because there’s no way in hell I’d actually run this, and I’m not even sure I understand it. But at least it’s not boring.101: Wrapped Around Your Finger There’s a heavily travelled road with drainage ditches along the side. The PCs notice a glint of metal down in said ditch. It looks like it’s gold, but is actually copper plated with a thin veneer gold and is worthless. The card goes on and on about how the gold will chip off if the PCs wear it, how they might think it’s magic but it’s not, how they could unscrupulously try to unload it onto a “self-important merchant” on the road, etc. Yes, I know - all of that follows logically from the existence of a gilded ring. They even add a “Quick Stats” subheading (usually reserved for monsters) to repeat that “The ring has no redeeming characteristics, it is perfectly ordinary and quite worthless.” Pass, as protest against the incredibly inflated wordcount. Besides, we already did this schtick back in 29: The Golden Ring.
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Nov 2, 2017 14:05
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20th century marching band summon stick is perfect for my game where a team of 11 heroes must transport a sacred relic 100 yards down the wizard Goodell’s gauntlet and the relic has but three charges left to let the heroes continue on if they get stuck.
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Nov 2, 2017 14:10
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Freaking Crumbum posted:do you consider replicating the Deadlands dice mechanic wholesale to be "A Bad Thing"? Great, now I'm inadvertently cribbing an another, better know game!
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Nov 2, 2017 14:43
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Any creative party could find many uses for a friendly talking frog, so I don't get why the card thinks it's a one off thing.
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Nov 2, 2017 15:00
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Any creative party could find many uses for a friendly talking frog, so I don't get why the card thinks it's a one off thing. Hello my baby Hello my honey Hello my ragtime gal
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Nov 2, 2017 15:04
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megane posted:I imagine there's a sizeable helping of not really understanding how probability works thrown in there, too. A lot of them seem to think that having convoluted dice rules will somehow make the results more unpredictable or more dramatic or more "natural" in some way, when in fact from a mathematical standpoint it's usually exactly the opposite. One of the few benefits of the d20 system is that you could tell probability exactly. Which as a consequence meant you could tell exactly when bonuses/penalties were going off the rails. Then in 5e they added advantage for the ostensible purpose of eliminating fiddly modifiers, and I hate it for the exact reason I hated 90s game mechanics.
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Nov 2, 2017 15:38
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Hello my baby Sure that's one obvious use. Other obvious uses are spying and scouting in certain areas. My point was that this encounter is the sort of thing that players will find ways to use even though the whole thing is minimal work for the GM.
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Nov 2, 2017 15:38
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give a quirky animal and they'll run with it, I was in a game where a chief engineer got turned into a non-talking, but intelligent ferret, one of the players kidnapped the poor guy because Ferret.
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Nov 2, 2017 16:04
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