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Come on, that frog could go on to have such a rich backstory! Maybe it could even help you raid the scientist that made it! Also, frogs are kinda cute anyways.
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Nov 2, 2017 16:05
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DalaranJ posted:One of the few benefits of the d20 system is that you could tell probability exactly. Which as a consequence meant you could tell exactly when bonuses/penalties were going off the rails. When I do design I stick to simple dice because I am not great at probability (haven't had a math class in a decade) and prefer simple guidelines and benchmarks.
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Nov 2, 2017 16:08
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:I'd totally play a system where everyone is pretentious yet bumbling, The pink panther-men? Warthur posted:Well, TSR-era D&D largely ossified in the 1970s and 1980s, when the territory system was still in effect and slower workrates tended to be the norm; spending entire minutes in a headlock or whatever sounds about right. Robindaybird posted:and Lars probably doesn't have a loving shrine including photos of the person as an eight-year old. I'm surprised Ellen Page didn't mace the gently caress out of him the moment he showed her his Ellen Page Shrine. Night10194 posted:The most baffling part of 90s urban fantasy games is the batshit insane dice mechanics. You'd think if you wanted to get 'roll playing' out of the way and let people bask in ambience you'd just use a simple percentile or d20 or whatever so you could resolve mechanics faster. FMguru posted:I call 'em Stupid Dice Tricks and they're a mainstay of 1990s design. I'm convinced they're equal parts 1) cargo-culting Storyteller/Vampire (which was itself a bad copy of the wonky Shadowrun 1E dice engine) and 2) an attempt to obfuscate how broken the system is while also appearing "simple". Roll and Keep, moving target numbers, different kinds of success, and (my favorite) mixing different types of dice (Alternity was really good for that). megane posted:I imagine there's a sizeable helping of not really understanding how probability works thrown in there, too. A lot of them seem to think that having convoluted dice rules will somehow make the results more unpredictable or more dramatic or more "natural" in some way, when in fact from a mathematical standpoint it's usually exactly the opposite. potatocubed posted:I wonder if at least part of the issue is that simple d20 rolls were the hallmark of D&D (for a given value of simple) and simple percentile rolls were Runequest/BRP/CoC. If you wanted to establish that your game was Not Like That then you needed a new, fancy dice mechanic. Vampire's rules aren't great but they were part of their success. A Vampire character sheet looks a lot simpler and more intuitive than an AD&D2e character sheet, or a Call of Cthulhu sheet, for that matter. My theory is that it just became a trend to have a superficially simple and intuitive house system, and that most of the companies that did it were, indeed, cargo-culting Storyteller. The only rule was that the characters' traits had to be simply measured on a 1-5 or 1-6 scale. These systems all appear to have been published with little playtesting and regard for the results they produced in actual play.
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Nov 2, 2017 16:21
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Halloween Jack posted:This is a classic horror movie scene. And in real life, it's why RAD training exists. Rabid Artisté Defence?
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Nov 2, 2017 16:37
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Its not Robot Alchemic Drive, that much im confident in
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Nov 2, 2017 16:49
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JcDent posted:Rabid Rape Aggression Defense, basically "When a guy grabs you, how do you render him into a quivering ball of shattered testicles in the least amount of time."
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Nov 2, 2017 16:50
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Same thing, really.
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Nov 2, 2017 17:06
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FMguru posted:I call 'em Stupid Dice Tricks and they're a mainstay of 1990s design. I'm convinced they're equal parts 1) cargo-culting Storyteller/Vampire (which was itself a bad copy of the wonky Shadowrun 1E dice engine) and 2) an attempt to obfuscate how broken the system is while also appearing "simple". Roll and Keep, moving target numbers, different kinds of success, and (my favorite) mixing different types of dice (Alternity was really good for that). I have a friend who still has the entire Earthdawn roll step averages system in his head. If you say like 32 to him, he immediately coughs back up "1D20 + 2D10 + 1D8 + 1D6, don't forget to add a karma mod."
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Nov 2, 2017 17:33
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theironjef posted:I have a friend who still has the entire Earthdawn roll step averages system in his head. If you say like 32 to him, he immediately coughs back up "1D20 + 2D10 + 1D8 + 1D6, don't forget to add a karma mod." I don't think it had rolls with mixed dice, but Deadlands deserves some award for having three different resolution systems running at the same time: multiple kinds of dice (for most things), three different pools of casino chips (for metagame effects), and drawing poker hands from a deck of playing cards (for resolving spells). That's some dedication to 1990s design principles right there.
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Nov 2, 2017 17:40
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I like the Leverage system, which mixes dice. You have dice from your attribute and skill and any situational modifiers at hand, and they're all different sizes
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Nov 2, 2017 17:52
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Night10194 posted:When I do design I stick to simple dice because I am not great at probability (haven't had a math class in a decade) and prefer simple guidelines and benchmarks. Roll and max/min is pretty legit, though. It makes high rolls more likely but without making low thresholds certain or unreachable thresholds reachable. Now, the “roll then beat your roll” from Synnibar or the dreaded d20 in Witch Girls on the other hand...
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Nov 2, 2017 18:34
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Kaza42 posted:I like the Leverage system, which mixes dice. You have dice from your attribute and skill and any situational modifiers at hand, and they're all different sizes the Dungeon Heist game hinted at in the Cortex+ Hacker's Guide is a system I'd love to try and play sometime
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Nov 2, 2017 18:37
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JcDent posted:Great, now I'm inadvertently cribbing an another, better know game! it's Deadlands, so I feel like "infamous" is a more accurate description, but it's probably a case of mental osmosis from (I assume) reading every iteration of the FATAL thread also I feel like nearly every one of those D&D encounter cards needs some kind of clear goal or objective or reward to really work. talking frog example - "REWARD: If the players free the talking frog from his prison, he tips them off to the secret stash of alchemical potions the wizard that created him keeps under an inconspicuous tree stump 50 yards behind his laboratory". just something to give the players a reason to even stop and interact with the vignette. if I was a player and my DM was leaning on these to heavily pad out an adventure, after a few I'd just start hard passing on them because most don't even seem like they'd reward any XP for completion, let alone any kind of tangible reward. edit: to clarify, a reward beyond acquiring a talking frog, or an invisible 2x4, or not acquiring the enmity of an insane unicorn, etc.
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Nov 2, 2017 18:45
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JcDent posted:Come on, that frog could go on to have such a rich backstory! Maybe it could even help you raid the scientist that made it!  Freaking Crumbum posted:also I feel like nearly every one of those D&D encounter cards needs some kind of clear goal or objective or reward to really work. Personally, though, I'm more into open-ended encounters than objective-based ones. As long as there's enough info for me, the DM, to run with, of course.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:41
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I do love the idea of an adventuring party opening a closet door and a dozen angry skeletons pouring out like some kind of necromantic clown car. From a few pages ago, but: The Dark Tower (a Judges' Guild AD&D module) did this in 1980 - you take a flight of stairs upwards and open a door and your GM says, "Bones spill out as you pull the door open! This Room Contains One Hundred Skeletons"
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Nov 2, 2017 21:12
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Are elven cats just your regular tabbies with pointier ears and more intellect, or are they some panthers or something?
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Nov 2, 2017 21:25
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Tiny displacer beasts
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Nov 2, 2017 21:28
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JcDent posted:Are elven cats just your regular tabbies with pointier ears and more intellect, or are they some panthers or something? They are like normal cats but even bigger aloof assholes.
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Nov 2, 2017 21:35
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JcDent posted:Are elven cats just your regular tabbies with pointier ears and more intellect, or are they some panthers or something? It would actually be cool if different races had specialized cats. Halflings can have default, dwarves get big rear end kobold-eating fuzzcats, elves get the Pallas cats, humans get palicos or something, IDK. More cats.
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Nov 2, 2017 21:35
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Elven cats are an actual thing from older monster manuals. They're bigger than normal, they talk, and I think they have a minor magic power but I forget what it is. Also what the special AD&D name for them was.
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Nov 2, 2017 21:36
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Kitties!  Orcs have evil cats that cooperate to push heavy orkish stuff off the table.
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Nov 2, 2017 21:37
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Is this one of those AD&D things where elves are just better than everyone else in every way, so their loving pet cat has to be a magic pet cat?
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Nov 2, 2017 21:38
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I think it's perfectly OK for elf cats to be magical and able to kill a lvl 2 commoner.
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Nov 2, 2017 21:41
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Halloween Jack posted:Is this one of those AD&D things where elves are just better than everyone else in every way, so their loving pet cat has to be a magic pet cat? Yes, though of course it gets broken in Forgotten Realms, where humans (the more magical white ones constantly getting laid by random Simbul encounters anyway) got magical winged smart cats. Also Drow get Elven Cats too. Except they love Mondays, and they hate lasagna. Edit: I just looked up the wingy-cats (Tressym) and nearly barfed at the names of Realms gods. The ones that like Tressym include Lurue, Cyrrollalee, Aerdrie Faenya, Erevan Ilesere, Halani Celanil, Ellellelileelilo Averdellillelalio, Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS, Pingyback Humptybomp, and Roll Fizzlebeef. theironjef fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 21:41
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Found it. They're just called elven cats, are super sneaky, have ESP, can shrink and grow themselves, trip foes, and turn into tree branches. Because elves.
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Nov 2, 2017 21:41
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Halloween Jack posted:Is this one of those AD&D things where elves are just better than everyone else in every way, so their loving pet cat has to be a magic pet cat? that's not even an AD&D thing that's literally the point of elves even the norse myths that tolkien drew on re: elves are kind of ambiguous about whether they're just another name for the gods, or at least for a broad class of supernatural entities who are like human beings but prettier, better at making poo poo, and don't get along with giants
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Nov 2, 2017 21:43
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Then there are the elf dogs, with their camo-patterned coats.
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Nov 2, 2017 22:35
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:that's not even an AD&D thing that's literally the point of elves Note that humans that were buried in a mound and venerated with great ceremony after their death could -become- a type of local elf that was worshiped as a god in a lot of local norse myths. This theoretically means that the graves of otherwise perfectly mundane human celebrities could spontaneously spawn minor elf god versions of said celebrity. I mean I'm not saying the Elvis sightings are actually Elvish sightings but.
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Nov 2, 2017 22:49
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Bieeardo posted:Then there are the elf dogs, with their camo-patterned coats. Nah, dogs are a weird human thing. Halflings love'm both because there's nothing cozier than having a dog at your feet at your hearth, and because there's nothing cozier than having dog cavalry protecting your village. Dwarves dislike them because they remind them of the Orcs and their damnable wargs. Elves would never admit it, but they fear them because they answer their master's wishes as if they can read their master's thoughts- if humans can emulate Elven Cats, what other secrets could they steal from Elfkind? Humans automatically gain Canine Empathy at character creation. Half-Elves and Halflings may purchase this feat at level 4.
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Nov 2, 2017 23:20
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Everyone knows that Orc cats would just be normal black cats because if there is a fantasy race that knows about catching hate because of who you look, it's Orcs. And they're sure as poo poo not going to turn away this sweet rear end cat because it's fur is black. Now the I need to include a warband of Orcs in a game that are known for two things: being brutally efficient in their acts of murder and owning enough cats that sinking into a magic cat-lady singularity is a potential plot hook.
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Nov 2, 2017 23:39
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:that's not even an AD&D thing that's literally the point of elves Tolkien's elves are supposed to be an idealized version of humanity where man was never cast out of the Garden Eden too. You can also read them as representing a prehistoric, legendary age of mankind where impossible things could happen like in mythology and their passing from the world is representative of the cycle of the world away from magic and myth and more towards the mundane age of man.
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Nov 2, 2017 23:50
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Ratoslov posted:Nah, dogs are a weird human thing. Halflings love'm both because there's nothing cozier than having a dog at your feet at your hearth, and because there's nothing cozier than having dog cavalry protecting your village. Dwarves dislike them because they remind them of the Orcs and their damnable wargs. Elves would never admit it, but they fear them because they answer their master's wishes as if they can read their master's thoughts- if humans can emulate Elven Cats, what other secrets could they steal from Elfkind? Jeez, another feat tax I have to pay to be the Elven Dogfucker.
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Nov 3, 2017 00:13
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Best part of King of Dragon Path was when the Yinkin Cult would show up and judge the quality of your town's cats. Forming a great kingdom and questing into the realm of the gods is great and all, but the true accomplishment was being told that you had the finest kittens they've ever seen.
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Nov 3, 2017 00:28
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Precambrian posted:Best part of King of Dragon Path was when the Yinkin Cult would show up and judge the quality of your town's cats. Forming a great kingdom and questing into the realm of the gods is great and all, but the true accomplishment was being told that you had the finest kittens they've ever seen. and they give you your kittens back because it wouldn't be right to take them for their services.
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Nov 3, 2017 00:40
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DalaranJ posted:One of the few benefits of the d20 system is that you could tell probability exactly. Which as a consequence meant you could tell exactly when bonuses/penalties were going off the rails. Advantage is roll twice, take better, right? As someone who doesn't get probabilities, how does that mess things up more than a fiddly pile of +1s and +2s?
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Nov 3, 2017 01:43
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Ratoslov posted:Nah, dogs are a weird human thing. Halflings love'm both because there's nothing cozier than having a dog at your feet at your hearth, and because there's nothing cozier than having dog cavalry protecting your village. Dwarves dislike them because they remind them of the Orcs and their damnable wargs. Elves would never admit it, but they fear them because they answer their master's wishes as if they can read their master's thoughts- if humans can emulate Elven Cats, what other secrets could they steal from Elfkind? This is canon. At character creation you can turn in trade your Canine Empathy feat for Feline Fellowship. It has no benefits but compels you to pet any feline and feline-adjacent creature you meet. Yes, even a displacer beast.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:50
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marshmallow creep posted:This is canon. Wait, it's gotta be named Canine Comradery. We need that alliteration!
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Nov 3, 2017 01:56
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What's the DC to discern who's a good boy?
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Nov 3, 2017 01:59
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0. Automatic success because they are always good boys.
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Nov 3, 2017 02:09
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Ratoslov posted:Nah, dogs are a weird human thing. Halflings love'm both because there's nothing cozier than having a dog at your feet at your hearth, and because there's nothing cozier than having dog cavalry protecting your village. Dwarves dislike them because they remind them of the Orcs and their damnable wargs. Elves would never admit it, but they fear them because they answer their master's wishes as if they can read their master's thoughts- if humans can emulate Elven Cats, what other secrets could they steal from Elfkind? humans being the only race to have successfully domesticated dogs/horses/etc. would actually be a pretty cool plot hook in a fantasy game that wasn't D&D. the whole concept of subjugating another animal to your will so thoroughly that it becomes domesticated is loving horrific to the elves, because they live in harmony with nature and just let all the animals do whatever they want where ever they want. Who needs beasts of burden when you can just ask the trees to carry your poo poo for you, or spontaneously grow more food, or perform any other menial task? dwarves find the entire idea of animals to be weird, because they are literally robots that were carved from stone to do the bidding of the first Mountain Lord. Individuality as a concept is a fairly recent discovery for dwarves (after overthrowing the despotic rule of the Mountain Lord) and even acknowledging that other sentient demihumans exist is something of a novelty. interacting with animals as anything other than semi-permanent auto-ambulatory objects is beyond their capacity to comprehend.
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Nov 3, 2017 02:54
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