Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

StandardVC10 posted:

Until last year there was still a single DC-3 based in Long Beach carrying mail out to Catalina Island. They finally sold it, I believe for turboprop conversion.

For a while Amazon had warnings on pages for things like aftershave that THIS ITEM CANNOT BE SHIPPED TO CATALINA ISLAND.

I don�t know why they were telling me about it�I�ve never had an address there�but I did figure that it had something to do with air freight restrictions.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 03:22

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 21:34

Terrible Robot: Jul 2, 2010; FRIED CHICKEN; Slippery Tilde

MrChips posted:

Basler BT-67s are worth their weight in gold for a lot of operators...hence why they are so insanely expensive to convert.

On the topic of the BT-67, have a video of Borek recovering one from the Antarctic after an accident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwQuQfquRI

That video owned, and led me to this video, of the recovery of the sister plane to the one in the first vid. This one took an even more solid hit, they have to replace the entire cockpit section of the fuselage in situ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn8OTFUBMrE

# ? Nov 9, 2017 03:54

The Locator: Sep 12, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Terrible Robot posted:

That video owned, and led me to this video, of the recovery of the sister plane to the one in the first vid. This one took an even more solid hit, they have to replace the entire cockpit section of the fuselage in situ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn8OTFUBMrE

So the question is... why? Seems like a lot of money to recover an airframe that has to have a ridiculously high number of hours on it.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 04:09

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

I know Basler zero times the airframes when they do the conversion. Does anyone reproduce new DC-3s? Seems like the market would be there for it.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 04:34

Terrible Robot: Jul 2, 2010; FRIED CHICKEN; Slippery Tilde

Yeah the Baslers are essentially considered new aircraft and they cost over $4M a pop so I imagine it was well worth the recovery, especially since as one of the dudes in the video said, those planes are some of the highest earners for cargo companies that do antarctic work.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 04:51

RandomPauI: Nov 24, 2006; Grimey Drawer

CommieGIR posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaxaca_PE-210A_Pegasus

It's supposed to be a cheap military trainer, but is there much of a market left for new cheap military trainers?

# ? Nov 9, 2017 04:52

Duke Chin: Jan 11, 2002; _{^{Roger That:}}
MILK CRATES INBOUND

_{_{^{- FUCK THE HABS -}}}

RandomPauI posted:

It's supposed to be a cheap military trainer, but is there much of a market left for new cheap military trainers?

poo poo's just getting going
_{_{^{but lol at ^^^ that thing}}}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-X_program

# ? Nov 9, 2017 04:58

C.M. Kruger: Oct 28, 2013

A military trainer without a bubble canopy? lol okay.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 05:15

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

C.M. Kruger posted:

A military trainer without a bubble canopy? lol okay.

If your trainer needs canards to maintain stability, your trainer is terrible. That thing looks like a Long E-Z with body issues.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 06:25

~Coxy: Dec 9, 2003; R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

BIG HEADLINE posted:

The funny thing is that if he'd bothered to turn his phone off, she'd have been poo poo out of luck since most phones require a PIN on the first biometric check after a fresh boot...probably to prevent poo poo just like this.

Don't even have to do that - the latest update has a shortcut to require PIN on next unlock.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I do. I can't double-up on Gogo WiFi between my Chromebook and my phone - I might as well save my battery.

You're not wrong, but phones last practically forever with wireless off.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 06:43

Ambihelical Hexnut: Aug 5, 2008

BIG HEADLINE posted:

If your trainer needs canards to maintain stability, your trainer is terrible. That thing looks like a Long E-Z with body issues.

Weed out the bad pilots early, rent the equipment to people making 1980s sci-fi films on the weekend. Win-win.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 06:45

Captain Postal: Sep 16, 2007

Platystemon posted:

It�s surprising that this thing was able to fly with the imbalance�

�caused by the pilot�s big brass balls.

That's why the bigger wing is on the pilots side. It needs the extra lift (and moment arm).

# ? Nov 9, 2017 07:20

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

TheFluff posted:

In the words of Maciej Ceglowski, which I try to spread at every opportunity:

That's excellent. Saved.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 07:24

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Duke Chin posted:

poo poo's just getting going
_{_{^{but lol at ^^^ that thing}}}

Looks exactly like a Mockingbird from the beginning of Macross/Robotech

# ? Nov 9, 2017 08:20

The Sausages: Sep 30, 2012; What do you want to do? Who do you want to be?

PT6A posted:

Oh I think this is going to end well...

https://twitter.com/cbcalerts/status/928273582559518720

Why do people who have no idea about aviation or experience in the industry feel so inexplicably driven to "disrupt" it? Why not try an incremental improvement on something already known to be legally and physically possible?

EDIT: I swear it's like these people exist in an alternate reality where the only reason legal and physical limitations exist within aviation is that the full intellectual might of Silicon Valley has not been brought to bear against the problem, like apparently the people at Boeing and Airbus and everyone else are just incurious morons, incapable of the visionary thought which is solely the province of Bay Area compsci majors.

"Bye honey, just going out to disrupt the air taxi industry" dies fiery death alongside their fare

The article accompanying that cover deserves a mention in this thread.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 08:46

INTJ Mastermind: Dec 30, 2004; It's a radial!

Wasn�t the Robinson R22 invented so doctors can fly from their suburban McMansions to the city hospital for work?

# ? Nov 9, 2017 17:14

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

The Sausages posted:

"Bye honey, just going out to disrupt the air taxi industry" dies fiery death alongside their fare

Oh my god there must be so much wasted garage space in front of the cabin, why not back in and use the space you save to store like your lawnmower or your own casket or something.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 17:15

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

INTJ Mastermind posted:

Wasn�t the Robinson R22 invented so doctors can fly from their suburban McMansions to the city hospital ~~for work~~ in a ball of fire?

Yes

# ? Nov 9, 2017 17:16

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

mllaneza posted:

Looks exactly like a Mockingbird from the beginning of Macross/Robotech

This was my thought exactly

# ? Nov 9, 2017 18:29

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

So, regarding the A5 crash, I'm seeing reports that Halladay had a full license and something like 700 hours total time, not just the minimum for a sport license or something.

That's by no means a very experienced pilot, but it's not inexperienced for a private pilot either, especially if he only got his license in 2013 -- that's quite a bit of flying for a recreational pilot. I feel like it's enough time to learn such things as "altitude is your friend and the ground is dangerous" and "don't do stupid poo poo just because you think you can," which begs the question of what the gently caress he was doing when he crashed.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 20:40

Comrade Gorbash: Jul 12, 2011; My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

PT6A posted:

So, regarding the A5 crash, I'm seeing reports that Halladay had a full license and something like 700 hours total time, not just the minimum for a sport license or something.

That's by no means a very experienced pilot, but it's not inexperienced for a private pilot either, especially if he only got his license in 2013 -- that's quite a bit of flying for a recreational pilot. I feel like it's enough time to learn such things as "altitude is your friend and the ground is dangerous" and "don't do stupid poo poo just because you think you can," which begs the question of what the gently caress he was doing when he crashed.

It sounds like he may have been in that dangerous zone of having enough experience to get complacent but not enough to recognize when he was pushing things too far or respond appropriately when something went sideways.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 20:43

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Cocoa Crispies posted:

I seem to remember seeing them land something of that sort at MIA right before the A380 first did on Mar. 5, 2011.

Atlantic is into MIA very occasionally, I'd say a couple times a year. It was always the best looking over at cargo city, and seeing 727 - 727 - A300 - 727 - DC-3 - 727 - DC-8 - 727. :v:

# ? Nov 9, 2017 21:02

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Gene Cernan crashed a helicopter while showboating on the coast of Florida. He misjudged his height above the water and caught a skid.

Two years later, NASA let him fly to the Moon in the most powerful and most expensive machine mankind has ever built.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 21:07

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

PT6A posted:

So, regarding the A5 crash, I'm seeing reports that Halladay had a full license and something like 700 hours total time, not just the minimum for a sport license or something.

That's by no means a very experienced pilot, but it's not inexperienced for a private pilot either, especially if he only got his license in 2013 -- that's quite a bit of flying for a recreational pilot. I feel like it's enough time to learn such things as "altitude is your friend and the ground is dangerous" and "don't do stupid poo poo just because you think you can," which begs the question of what the gently caress he was doing when he crashed.

With that many hours flying solely privately/recreationally, if he hadn�t flown with an experienced instructor for anything beyond a BFR that�s an accident waiting to happen. As he proved.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 21:08

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Platystemon posted:

Gene Cernan crashed a helicopter while showboating on the coast of Florida. He misjudged his height above the water and caught a skid.

Two years later, NASA let him fly to the Moon in the most powerful and most expensive machine mankind has ever built.

In NASA's defense, there's no water on the Moon's surface.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 21:32

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

e.pilot posted:

With that many hours flying solely privately/recreationally, if he hadn�t flown with an experienced instructor for anything beyond a BFR that�s an accident waiting to happen. As he proved.

True, I hadn't thought of that. That's a lot of time to develop bad habits and false confidence with minimal intervention.

PT6A fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Nov 9, 2017

# ? Nov 9, 2017 21:35

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Or maybe his pilot skills were perfectly typical for the quite considerable amount of Americans who rack up that many hours on PPL, and only Icon's marketing and hot dog enabling is to blame.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 21:44

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Here's some clips of his flying right before, including people arriving at the wreckage. I haven't seen through it all with sound so can't vouch for anything :nms:

, particularly since it's the Daily Mail. Probably fine.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/11/08/roy-halladay-plane-crash-video-witnesses-showboating/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5062213/Roy-Halladay-fly-Icon-A5-crash.html

As this thread has learned, experience doesn't prevent hotdogging, it's just that hotdogging cuts experience short.

Ola fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Nov 9, 2017

# ? Nov 9, 2017 21:57

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Insert old and bold clich�.txt

PT6A posted:

True, I hadn't thought of that. That's a lot of time to develop bad habits and false confidence with minimal intervention.

It absolutely is, if you haven�t yet read The Killing Zone, it�s a sobering read that should be required reading for every sub 500ish hour pilot.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 22:06

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

e.pilot posted:

Insert old and bold clich�.txt

It absolutely is, if you haven�t yet read The Killing Zone, it�s a sobering read that should be required reading for every sub 500ish hour pilot.

Hey, that's me!

I've ordered it. I always watch Mayday and stuff like that, since I think it'd be an awful shame not to learn from other people's mistakes and instead make my own, but this sounds like it's probably more focused on the things that are likely to happen to me/because of me at this stage in my career.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 22:23

Rudest Buddhist: May 26, 2005; You only lose what you cling to, bitch.; Fun Shoe

AOPA has some dirt cheap eBooks similar to The Killing Zone https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/publications/aopa-ebooks

They also just launched a 'Never Again' podcast that's pretty fun to listen to.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 22:48

PhotoKirk: Jul 2, 2007; insert witty text here

Cat Mattress posted:

In NASA's defense, there's no water on the Moon's surface.

That's not what Futurama taught me.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 23:07

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

PhotoKirk posted:

That's not what Futurama taught me.

But there ain�t no whales.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 23:16

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

I just want to say, I watched Sully on HBO in my hotel room, and I think it might be the dumbest movie I've ever seen.

# ? Nov 9, 2017 23:52

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Phanatic posted:

I just want to say, I watched Sully on HBO in my hotel room, and I think it might be the dumbest movie I've ever seen.

I...can believe it

Have you seen Stripes tho

# ? Nov 10, 2017 00:35

Ambihelical Hexnut: Aug 5, 2008

Ola posted:

Here's some clips of his flying right before, including people arriving at the wreckage. I haven't seen through it all with sound so can't vouch for anything , particularly since it's the Daily Mail. Probably fine.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/11/08/roy-halladay-plane-crash-video-witnesses-showboating/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5062213/Roy-Halladay-fly-Icon-A5-crash.html

As this thread has learned, experience doesn't prevent hotdogging, it's just that hotdogging cuts experience short.

Lord if you give me nothing else in this life please don't let my death be vlog narrated by some rear end in a top hat.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 00:57

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

https://vimeo.com/242138304

V-280 Ground run.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 01:21

Ambihelical Hexnut: Aug 5, 2008

Sweet. I look forward to not keeping up with that thing until 3k out and then braking hard as it slows to 80 kts to chug its way toward the LZ.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 01:46

C.M. Kruger: Oct 28, 2013

mllaneza posted:

Looks exactly like a Mockingbird from the beginning of Macross/Robotech

It doesn't have forward swept wings though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkXRg8FkwlY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAobfMSX9dg

# ? Nov 10, 2017 01:54

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 21:34

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

Terrible Robot posted:

That video owned, and led me to this video, of the recovery of the sister plane to the one in the first vid. This one took an even more solid hit, they have to replace the entire cockpit section of the fuselage in situ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn8OTFUBMrE

I love stuff like this

# ? Nov 10, 2017 02:31

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