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Jeb! Repetition posted:They're not even lampshading the fact that all culture is the twentieth century anymore Honestly I'm fine with it, Future Music is always so bad in sci-fi that I'm happy they're just using actual music instead.
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Nov 10, 2017 13:39
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bull3964 posted:I'm calling it now that the blue guy's culture is totally fine with sleeping around so he feels he hasn't harmed Ed and acts accordingly. AHEM! "In my culture, it's rude to turn down sex."
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Nov 10, 2017 14:35
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Davros1 posted:"Maybe" Dude realized he hosed up and decided to help.
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Nov 10, 2017 15:46
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Kurieg posted:Dude realized he hosed up and decided to help. That's how I read it too. There's still the cultural barrier, but he realized what he did wasn't appropriate to human culture and this was the closest he could manage to an apology. He's still an rear end in a top hat, but he tried.
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Nov 10, 2017 15:55
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Mokinokaro posted:That's how I read it too. There's still the cultural barrier, but he realized what he did wasn't appropriate to human culture and this was the closest he could manage to an apology. I think he also realized that his pheromones affect other species differently, to the point that Ed was willing to risk interstellar war due to his infatuation.
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Nov 10, 2017 16:01
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bull3964 posted:AHEM! And yet, he still did when there was a great threat, and he did seem upset about breaking up their marriage, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard there.
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Nov 10, 2017 16:09
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It wasn't rape-y; It was rape, pure and simple. I feel like the episode should have made that clearer, and there should have been something more than mild bemusement and irritation in response. I also really don't like that our protagonists solved the problem of the week by inflicting sexual assault on the two ambassadors. You can attempt to handwave the behaviour of Rob Lowe's character away and attribute it to cultural differences but the rest of the crew knew exactly what they were doing, and implemented that plan. Then the Captain tells that Nurse that he'll be giving him a commendation for drugging two people so that they'd rape each other. Edit: I'm actually kinda surprised that Fox decided to air this episode at all, considering recent events.
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Nov 10, 2017 16:22
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WampaLord posted:And yet, he still did when there was a great threat, and he did seem upset about breaking up their marriage, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard there. Hey, I need a good back pat this week. I think it was more he was upset that Ed was upset rather than any genuine remorse at breaking up the marriage. Basically, he's sorry he made Ed upset, not really about the act that made him upset.
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Nov 10, 2017 16:23
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The whole "Oh, they have a common ancestor, so they'll have to share the planet!" ending really didn't seem like it solved anything at all. Humans have a common ancestor and we're still pretty lovely about sharing our planet with each other. After that pheromone wears off, war is starting again.
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Nov 10, 2017 16:30
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WampaLord posted:The whole "Oh, they have a common ancestor, so they'll have to share the planet!" ending really didn't seem like it solved anything at all. Humans have a common ancestor and we're still pretty lovely about sharing our planet with each other. They did both agree to abide by the results of the DNA study, though.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:01
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WampaLord posted:The whole "Oh, they have a common ancestor, so they'll have to share the planet!" ending really didn't seem like it solved anything at all. Humans have a common ancestor and we're still pretty lovely about sharing our planet with each other. I was more offput by them looking so different after only 30,000 years but I suppose there are any number of possible explanations that don't matter, they were pretty cool designs.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:03
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MisterBibs posted:I'm somewhat speaking out of turn because I haven't watched the episode yet, but isn't it a bit weird to ascribe an outside influence (the pheromones) instead of an internal influence (Grayson being fundamentally lonely because of Ed being a workaholic)? What's worse is they specifically invented it to resolve the issue in a way that would let Mercer and Grayson get back together. That short scene at the very end took the episode from good to poo poo for me.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:04
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for adultery, but I've kinda felt that the Orville is the kind of show that doesn't invent a Gimmick Of The Episode to absolve/resolve an issue.
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Epicurius posted:They did both agree to abide by the results of the DNA study, though. And World War 1 ended with a peace treaty and an agreement that we wouldn't do another war like that ever again. Oops. The Bloop posted:I was more offput by them looking so different after only 30,000 years but I suppose there are any number of possible explanations that don't matter, they were pretty cool designs.  Temporal radiation bounced off a solar wind nebula and sped up their evolution.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:15
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Jeb! Repetition posted:That short scene at the very end took the episode from good to poo poo for me.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:21
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The Bloop posted:Will they/ won't they in the vein of Mulder/Scully is much more feasible now and I don't really see a problem with that. They won't because it would mean she couldn't be his XO any more, but the temptation is now more plausible. It might happen if either leaves the show, though. I don't have a problem with will they/won't they, just them ultimately getting back together which the end of the episode seemed to imply (and Mercer's line earlier to the effect of "I can never trust her in that way again because of what she did"). If in spite of that, if they still stayed just friends, it'd be great no matter or even because of how much misdirection there will have been up until that point.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:38
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I keep getting the idea that Blue Rob Lowe is supposed to be from a race like the Deltans from the TOS universe, taking advantage of 'sexually immature' species.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:45
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As long as they can make any relationship episodes between them as entertaining and funny as this one, I don't care what direction they go.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:47
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I don't have a problem with will they/won't they, just them ultimately getting back together which the end of the episode seemed to imply (and Mercer's line earlier to the effect of "I can never trust her in that way again because of what she did"). If in spite of that, if they still stayed just friends, it'd be great no matter or even because of how much misdirection there will have been up until that point. She said that, not him. They aren't together. A door that was welded shut is now openable, that's all. It's still boobytrapped though. Even in the preview they are sniping about marriage.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:51
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The Bloop posted:She said that, not him. I hope to hell you're right, old friend.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:52
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I thought he was Charles Esten for a few minutes until he started talking about sugar.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:19
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The Lord Bude posted:It wasn't rape-y; It was rape, pure and simple. I feel like the episode should have made that clearer, and there should have been something more than mild bemusement and irritation in response. I also really don't like that our protagonists solved the problem of the week by inflicting sexual assault on the two ambassadors. You can attempt to handwave the behaviour of Rob Lowe's character away and attribute it to cultural differences but the rest of the crew knew exactly what they were doing, and implemented that plan. Then the Captain tells that Nurse that he'll be giving him a commendation for drugging two people so that they'd rape each other. Some knowledgeable rapist can correct me on this, but it wasn't rape according to any earth law. You are absolutely allowed to use your body odours to attract the opposite sex. Its legal. It may still have been space rape though, I'm not sure. Maybe some space lawyer can chime in on the subject?
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Nov 10, 2017 18:21
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That was more awesome than words can express; I'm totally sold and hope The Orville goes on forever, or at least seven years. The scene where the two races are at the conference table at the brink of war, and Ed goes "I just want you all to know I found the greatest guy..." That's so incredibly anti-Trek, it's awesome. Not that Trek is bad, but no one has lampooned Trek so perfectly since, um, since Carol Burnett at least. Now I'll admit it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Next morning, when the tequila has worn off, it becomes obvious that squirting sex pheromones at people isn't "rape-y", it's flat out rape. If the blue-skinned people were- heck, I'm just going to call them Smurfs- if the Smurfs were part of the Union, they would be required to wear protective suits during that time of the year, and people would know not to touch a Smurf unless you want to be ankles-behind-ears. "Shaking hands with a Smurf" would be slang for "going to get laid". Also, assuming a whole race of Smurfs, it seems odd that Alara recognizes him with just a glance. Still an awesome episode. Next week looks cool as hell too. Gynovore fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 18:28
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I really like the opening to this episode. In fact, I love all the openings that are the crew hanging out, it seems to be where the best jokes come from.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:47
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WampaLord posted:The whole "Oh, they have a common ancestor, so they'll have to share the planet!" ending really didn't seem like it solved anything at all. Humans have a common ancestor and we're still pretty lovely about sharing our planet with each other. Given it was a birthing tub, I expected the DNA to be from a mixed-species baby... 30,000 years ago they lived together an intermarried is more powerful than a "common ancestor." Oh well. Gynovore posted:"Shaking hands with a Smurf" would be slang for "going to get laid". This would be great. As to nobody knowing about Smurf pheromones, it's directly in the grand Star Trek tradition. This is Pon Farr, except it's induced in others instead of the self; somehow others in the Federation were quite unaware of Pon Farr despite centuries of interaction with Vulcans. It may be that most Smurfs are careful with other races during this time, so it hasn't really come up amongst outsiders before. Rob Lowe is the rear end in a top hat who makes it public by taking advantage of it. It may also be that he's one of the only Smurfs in the Union; I don't think we know anything about his planet's status and we haven't seen any other blue guys around.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:52
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Choadmaster posted:As to nobody knowing about Smurf pheromones, it's directly in the grand Star Trek tradition. This is Pon Farr, except it's induced in others instead of the self; somehow others in the Federation were quite unaware of Pon Farr despite centuries of interaction with Vulcans.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:02
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Except that he doesn't face any consequences for his behavior. Instead of a much-needed reprimand from Mercer and Grayson at the end, they're more concerned about whether he did the same thing again, and then after the "maybe", they still don't reprimand him. Yeah, this episode really skeeved me out. A lot. With everything that’s going on in Hollywood right now, they play lighthearted romp with the non-consensual sex and the knowing perpetrator saves the day. With more non-consensual sex drugging. The only funny thing about this episode was Bortus.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:30
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Binary Badger posted:I keep getting the idea that Blue Rob Lowe is supposed to be from a race like the Deltans from the TOS universe, taking advantage of 'sexually immature' species. I think the problem is that Blue Rob Lowe didn't have DirecTV
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Nov 10, 2017 19:32
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Only halfway through the episode but "To old friends," "To new beginnings" and that poo poo eating grin just completely cracked me up.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:39
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HOLY MOLY THE GOO gently caress
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Nov 10, 2017 19:41
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Yep, the blue guy totally knows what he is doing aaaand it's definitely rape.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:50
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I'm not willing to wade to deep into "what is rape" in this thread, but making yourself insanely attractive to other people and then making it with them when they offer... isn't rape. It's essentially the goal of dating. Blue guy's species being OK with this and thinking humans have a hangup about sex is perfectly believable alien culture. He might argue that it's rape to wear makeup or a corset because it "tricks" you into making out with someone based on "false" information. We have pheremones too, his are just more powerful and where that line is seems pretty arbitrary. Now, weaponizing it at the end, that was the same sort of crime as any mind control and honestly probably caused more harm in the long run unless they really buy the coexistance because of common ancestor angle, which maybe makes sense for their cultures? If so, stopping a war is a pretty good thing to do.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:27
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The TV IV: The Orville: Shaking Hands with a Smurf
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Nov 10, 2017 20:34
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Gynovore posted:The TV IV: The Orville: Shaking Hands with a Smurf 
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Nov 10, 2017 20:36
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The Bloop posted:I'm not willing to wade to deep into "what is rape" in this thread, but making yourself insanely attractive to other people and then making it with them when they offer... isn't rape. It's essentially the goal of dating. What he did is more like the equivalent of dropping an ecstasy into your date's drink. "But they were having (chemically induced) fun on the date!"
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Nov 10, 2017 20:37
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WampaLord posted:What he did is more like the equivalent of dropping an ecstasy into your date's drink. Fact is, you might be right, but we don't know if he's an outlier creep in his species or if his behavior is normal as he claims. We don't know Union law about inter-species breeding, consent, or anything really. Taking him at face value, his culture is just a bit alien and where that overlaps with human culture in a hundred-worlds union can't be as simple as "human mores and taboos are the correct ones" This isn't just mundane evil cultural relativism either because they are different species.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:46
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Phylodox posted:Yeah, this episode really skeeved me out. A lot. With everything that’s going on in Hollywood right now, they play lighthearted romp with the non-consensual sex and the knowing perpetrator saves the day. With more non-consensual sex drugging. this was a horror episode, it was really not very light-hearted at all even though the characters were "having fun" for most of it. macfarlane has been one of the more outspoken people about sexual assault in hollywood for quite a long time. darulio's the most actually evil villain we've seen in any episode so far, and it just makes him worse that he still thinks he's a good person and he gets away without consequence. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 21:13
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You don't even know if he has a penis all he does is squirt blue stuff out of his head
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Nov 10, 2017 21:20
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You can still consent just fine on E. You might not make good decisions but it is still clearly you making them. As opposed to roofies or pass-out drunk.
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Nov 10, 2017 21:25
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A pod containing a mixed DNA species wouldn't have actually solved the debate, since there would still be the question "who was here first".The Bloop posted:Maybe if his species evolved involuntary ecstasy dispensers and it was just considered a normal part of their culture's dating/mating. Darulio wasn't just some completely clueless alien from the sticks who didn't know anything about human culture or their hangups. He was the guy Grayson slept with, on Earth, and was sleeping with at the time Mercer walked in, and just from their reactions, he should have clued in that Mercer wasn't happy, Grayson wasn't happy that Mercer caught them, and that some cultural taboo might have been violated. The fact that he did the same thing a year later... I can't really swallow the "gosh, how was I supposed to know" excuse. And it was quite clear that in the state of mind, they were not able to make decisions, let alone give consent.
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Nov 10, 2017 21:43
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I thought this episode was funny, and that the blue guy was an rear end in a top hat. Do we really need to psychoanalyze it deeper than that? It was literally The Naked Now, with jokes. Edit: Maybe more Fascination. Peachfart fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 21:50
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