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Basebf555 posted:See my post above. There's no all powerful ruler of Hollywood that will just declare that Weinstein and the rest can't work in movies again. It's up to society to decide that, if the industry senses that we're ok with it, they will work again, straight up. "Society" making a decision that would invalidate and re-traumatize their victims would still be wrong. Society had previously made a collective decision that sexual assault is not a big deal and if you accuse a powerful man of it your career is over, and that was wrong too -- not going along with societal consensus requires leadership and integrity, which we generally see as virtues.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:37
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Well, I WASN'T going to link to this CDAN post...dont even fink about it posted:http://www.indiewire.com/2017/11/bryan-cranston-believes-kevin-spacey-harvey-weinstein-second-chance-sexual-harassment-1201897266/ But now I feel like I should. Ent Lawer posted:This A list mostly movie actor who is an EOT/nominee/winner and can do comedy to horror thinks he is being pro-woman with his recent comments about Louis C.K. I think he should be concerned about the high school age females he used to harass on that long running show of his. No, the one before that one. Be prepared for this one, folks.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:44
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Mechafunkzilla posted:"Society" making a decision that would invalidate and re-traumatize their victims would still be wrong. Society had previously made a collective decision that sexual assault is not a big deal and if you accuse a powerful man of it your career is over, and that was wrong too -- not going along with societal consensus requires leadership and integrity, which we generally see as virtues. But again, Cranston said that each of these men would be dealt with on a case by case basis, and I agree. Some of these guys are rapists, some have committed lesser forms of sexual assault, and some are guilty only of sexual misconduct in the workplace. So you really need to look at each situation and decide for yourself whether forgiveness is an option or not, and society as a whole will be doing that as time goes on. "Forgiveness" doesn't mean that the person gets to simply re-claim their previous position with no lasting repercussions. Forgiveness will also be case by case, as in, maybe Weinstein will one day be able to walk the streets without fear of getting his rear end beat, and maybe one day that level of forgiveness will be justified based on what he does to deserve it. If in 5 years Louis CK has done a ton of work on himself and has made some concrete efforts to help others and undo as much of the damage he caused as he can, well then I'm not going to say it's automatically wrong to work with him again. So yea, case by case is important.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:45
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Definitely. The road to forgiveness would be a long one, it's not like in a couple weeks if they apologize then all is well. poo poo would take years of real growth.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:49
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Their road to "real growth" doesn't mean poo poo to someone who goes to see a movie and the guy who once cornered them in a room while jerking off is up there on the big screen. Or who has to drop out of a production because the now-forgiven person will be working on it.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:51
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lelandjs posted:Well, I WASN'T going to link to this CDAN post... Cranston's never done horror (that I'm aware of) and didn't mention CK. e: the comments are saying it might be Jason Alexander. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 21:52
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Cranston's never done horror (that I'm aware of) and didn't mention CK. Cranston was in X-Files (one of the best eps!) and when I first read the blind item I found the article with Cranston talking about Louie... but I couldn't find it again just now, so I don't know. I hope the Cranston guess is wrong.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:59
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I don't see how it could be Jason Alexander because he never had a second long running t.v. show. It seems to be referring to Cranston hitting on girls on the set of Malcom in the Middle.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:04
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esperterra posted:Definitely. The road to forgiveness would be a long one, it's not like in a couple weeks if they apologize then all is well. poo poo would take years of real growth. And in more than a few cases, ideally, legal consequences.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:08
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I mean the thing with giving people a second chance is I'm about it in theory but I'm more inclined to feel that way for someone who fucks up once or twice and tries to make good than for someone who systematically abuses their power to sexually assault and harass people for loving decades
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Nov 14, 2017 22:16
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Cranston's never done horror (that I'm aware of) and didn't mention CK. Cranston sexually harassed Jason Alexander?
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Nov 14, 2017 22:24
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Their road to "real growth" doesn't mean poo poo to someone who goes to see a movie and the guy who once cornered them in a room while jerking off is up there on the big screen. Or who has to drop out of a production because the now-forgiven person will be working on it. Well I definitely would say that if I were someone out there considering hiring someone like a Louis CK, in addition to the years of work I'd want to see him out there doing first(outreach to victims, speaking to raise awareness, etc.), I would also want to see that he was forgiven by the women he hurt directly. Which is up to them, that's something for them to decide personally whether they choose to forgive. But I agree, I don't think it would be right to put a past victimizer into a production unless first and foremost the victim has decided to forgive. But that does happen, we've seen it happen many times. People are resilient and forgiveness is a choice that a lot of victims find to be cathartic.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:28
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I mean the thing with giving people a second chance is I'm about it in theory but I'm more inclined to feel that way for someone who fucks up once or twice and tries to make good than for someone who systematically abuses their power to sexually assault and harass people for loving decades Not everyone implicated did that. Some did things when younger and seem decade(s) removed from their last stated incident (and not doing anything again is a large mark of repentance). edit: Not saying you don't know this, but making a general point, that what Cranston said still makes sense in this aspect.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:30
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Darko posted:Not everyone implicated did that. Some did things when younger and seem decade(s) removed from their last stated incident (and not doing anything again is a large mark of repentance). I know, I was mostly talking about guys like Spacey and Weinstein Basically if Spacey seems contrite AND can go 30 years without molesting anyone, then maybe I'll be okay with him dragging his 90-year-old rear end out of retirement for his big comeback role.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:32
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Between this and his Trump comments I'm beginning to think that Cranston is an rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:48
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Basebf555 posted:Well I definitely would say that if I were someone out there considering hiring someone like a Louis CK, in addition to the years of work I'd want to see him out there doing first(outreach to victims, speaking to raise awareness, etc.), I would also want to see that he was forgiven by the women he hurt directly. Which is up to them, that's something for them to decide personally whether they choose to forgive. There are a lot of people who are going to prefer to keep their history being attacked private and they sure as hell shouldn't be put in a situation where they have to either disclose or drop out of a production.
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Nov 14, 2017 22:59
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Between this and his Trump comments I'm beginning to think that Cranston is an rear end in a top hat. He's at the very least got no sense of timing.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:01
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I know, I was mostly talking about guys like Spacey and Weinstein And how would it feel to be someone who Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted 30 years ago, seeing him get a big comeback role as an old man and the accompanying redemption narrative? Going to a movie or watching TV and seeing him in a preview? It's insane the degree to which people will try to accommodate abusers while ignoring their victims.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:04
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The amount of people tripping over each other in this thread and in general to describe how we could get Weinstein alone, a monster, back into the fold, is quite incredible. Weinstein is a serial rapist, who people didn't like even when they didn't know that about him. Stop fanfictioning about him "coming back into the fold," it's weird.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:04
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Who is Elizabeth Perkins? James Woods did announce his retirement like a month ago. ...right around when the Weinstein scandal started gaining traction.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:06
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Between this and his Trump comments I'm beginning to think that Cranston is an rear end in a top hat. I definitely think that his comments are indicative of the same kind of privilege that has led to a lot of the abusive behavior that serves as the basis of this thread. He's been well-liked, rewarded, and wealthy for so long now that he's forgotten what it means to consider his words more carefully. I'm not saying that the rumors of Cranston are true (though this does seem to be the season of ticking clocks), but it feels like it's not that big of a jump from not considering your words, to not considering your actions, if you find yourself in a sufficient enough position of power.
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Nov 14, 2017 23:06
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Mechafunkzilla posted:And how would it feel to be someone who Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted 30 years ago, seeing him get a big comeback role as an old man and the accompanying redemption narrative? Going to a movie or watching TV and seeing him in a preview? I was half kidding, ideally Kevin Spacey won't be alive for thirty more years obviously the victims come first, I'm not trying to "accommodate abusers" Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 23:22
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Yeah, to me a big part of forgiveness for these people is whether the victims believe they've worked hard enough to be forgiven. I don't think anyone is advocating for traumatizing anyone over again. fwiw re: Weinstein I think he deserves jail time and I hope he gets it. Once again, case by case basis.
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Nov 15, 2017 00:25
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There are a lot of stories of Cranston pulling sexually oriented “pranks” on the set of Breaking Bad, so yeah, get yourself ready for that one
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Nov 15, 2017 00:37
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George Takei apologized for the Howard Stern interview claiming it was just a joke. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-takei-apologizes-howard-stern-remark-calls-it-distasteful-joke-1058074 It sure as hell didn't sound like a joke, which makes me believe he knew he accidentally admitted to doing something really lovely.
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Nov 15, 2017 00:51
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It's only a matter of time for a million Jared Leto stories to come out right?
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Nov 15, 2017 00:51
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Darko posted:Explain why not? Because I get that "projecting what society wants and sometimes criticizing it and sometimes reveling in it" in every aspect of his films, including women. Because it's weird and reductive?
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Nov 15, 2017 01:49
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Remember how cool Gal Gadot suddenly seemed to be? Welp https://medium.com/@imasurvivor/heres-how-gal-gadot-actually-responded-when-her-friend-raped-me-7aa7a2bea919
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Nov 15, 2017 02:26
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Tangentally related to what's going on, I found this article pretty interesting. Two youtubers had a show in the works, which fell through because the third party was a porn star accused of rape, and the aftereffects of that. (of course, maybe not having a porn star whose oeuvre is crazy-rough sex scenes would've helped them avoid that fate, plus the fact that one of the duo immediately went into the defense of the guy, but whatever...) MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Nov 15, 2017 |
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Nov 15, 2017 02:34
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Remember how cool Gal Gadot suddenly seemed to be? Welp While I respect how difficult it is for an accuser to come forward and face public scrutiny, I feel like a single anonymous story published on an account for which that story is the only activity is not a great basis to judge someone.
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Nov 15, 2017 02:42
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It features lots of verifiable information so it should be relatively easy to either prove or disprove.
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Nov 15, 2017 02:44
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Al Borland Corp. posted:It features lots of verifiable information so it should be relatively easy to either prove or disprove. Right. For example, it says Gal Gadot was 19 when it happened, which seems to conflict with her serving in the IDF from when she was 18 to 20. Now maybe there's an explanation for what's going on with that, but I'd like to see some actual reporting on it before taking the article as the truth.
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Nov 15, 2017 02:50
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Remember how cool Gal Gadot suddenly seemed to be? Welp Hasn't she always been kind of lovely, though? How about that time in 2014 when she posted the pro-IDF messages to her social media accounts and calling Hamas cowards for hiding behind women and children at the same time that Israeli forces were bombing women and children in Gaza?
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Nov 15, 2017 02:57
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Sir Kodiak posted:Right. For example, it says Gal Gadot was 19 when it happened, which seems to conflict with her serving in the IDF from when she was 18 to 20. She did the pageant stuff right after graduating at age 18 and that was followed by modeling for at least half a year. It was after that that she was in the IDF. She was 21 when she served in the 2006 Lebanon War. ETA: Don't know what to think of the story, but the age would not be wrong. Lucania fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Nov 15, 2017 |
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Nov 15, 2017 03:22
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Lucania posted:She did the pageant stuff right after graduating at age 18 and that was followed by modeling for at least half a year. It was after that that she was in the IDF. She was 21 when she served in the 2006 Lebanon War. Ah, okay. I was going by Wikipedia, which says 18-20, but could easily be wrong.
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Nov 15, 2017 03:33
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Remember how cool Gal Gadot suddenly seemed to be? Welp Whatever was there isn't there anymore
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Nov 15, 2017 03:35
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dont even fink about it posted:The amount of people tripping over each other in this thread and in general to describe how we could get Weinstein alone, a monster, back into the fold, is quite incredible. It's loving super weird.
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Nov 15, 2017 03:36
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Steve Yun posted:Whatever was there isn't there anymore Probably got a giant loving libel threat
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Nov 15, 2017 03:41
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Well hopefully it was all bullshit.
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Nov 15, 2017 04:16
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From the cachequote:Here’s How Gal Gadot Actually Responded When Her Friend Raped Me. I'm having a little trouble buying this one. Why would you wait until now to make this public? Gal's been in the public eye in a major way for several years now.
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