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The introduction by Garvin for the Valentine/Hercules match introduced me to the saying "two left feet" except 4 year old Hockles didn't know that it was a saying. I thought Valentine had two literal left feet. So, I looked at the action figure I had of him... nope just normal feet. Nothing I could see told me otherwise, so I went for a year or two thinking that Valentine had two left feet.
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Nov 12, 2017 22:53
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Davros1 posted:It was also at this point in his career where Valentine had taken to wearing a shinguard, and turn it around before applying the figure four That shinguard infuriated Lil' Jerusalem so much  HE'S CHEATING! DO SOMETHING REF! ARGHHH! ARGHHHHHH!!!! 
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Nov 13, 2017 01:44
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Shiki Dan posted:I have a feeling you're eventually going to change your position on Bossman. I saw Bossman and Perfect do a singles match in a house show in Des Moines in like 1988, and it was great. Perfect ragdoll sold everything, and they did a spot where Bossman threw him at the corner so hard that he slid under the turnbuckles and racked himself on the ringpost. It was pretty drat good. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 10:56
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Randy Savage and Zeus w/ Sensational Sherri vs. Hulk Hogan and Burtus Beefcake w/ Elizabeth Here we go, for the second year in a row Summerslam is main evented by a tag team match. I'm starting to get really tired with the lack of the WWF Title matches on these PPVs. In all this time we've only had five title defences and it's making the belt feel less important. I know this is because PPV is new and we're working our way towards the model I know but it's still weird. It just makes the vibe of the show feel a little off. The heels are out first and I still can't get over whatever the gently caress is going on with Sherri. She looks like she's possessed. She's also come out to the ring carrying a handbag which I find very confusing. I guess it's just close to her time and she wants make sure she's got a Tampax. Smart thinking, lady. It's time for the faces to come out now and friends, it's time to induct another member into the Cute Kid Fan Hall of Fame. We've had Hulk Fan, we've had the Macho Fan, we've had the Ultimate Fan. But now ladies and gentlemen I present to you...  Burtus Fan! Burtus and Hulk walk out separately, each getting a big pop from the crowd. However, there's no sign of Elizabeth with either of them. That's weird, I figured that one of the main points of this feud was to have Sherri and Elizabeth buzzing off each other. But wait, before the bell rings Hulk goes over to Finkel and whispers in his ear. It was only a fake out! Elizabeth walks out and the arena just blows the roof off. It feels at this point like Elizabeth is the biggest face in the entire company. Her pops are bigger than Hulk's even and she's never done stupid things like throw tantrums after losing matches. She's certainly the only member of this face team that I give any shits about. Meanwhile, Jesse says that Elizabeth used to be “a hash slinger down the streets of Jersey”. Oh Jesse. With our players now all on the field the match can begin. Hulk goes right after Zeus from the bell but Zeus no-sells all of his shots. Hulk responds by going after Zeus's eyes but then he doesn't have the power to lift him up for a body slam. Burtus tries to help but he ends up jumping into a bearhug. And it's finally time to address the elephant in the room. Zeus is the drizzling shits. Seriously, this guy might be the worst person I've ever seen step through the ropes and I saw David Arquette win the WCW Title. He's obviously not even a wrestler. I have my doubts that he could even be called an actor. He's just a big muscly bodybuilder who lucked out into getting a role in minor B-movie and now he's being put in a PPV main event despite having no talent just to advertise No Holds Barred. Because that's all this match is, it's a movie trailer. And look, if you want to do this then fine, I get it. You want to build hype for this big movie thing, that makes sense. But don't do it by burying your entire roster by pushing a green block of lead right to the top of the card in his debut match. WORST HAIR  With an extra award for the monobrow Savage is also in this match. Yeah, remember that guy? The previous WWF champion? Yes he's here and somehow the least important member of the heel team. This is exactly what I'm talking about. But here he is and he gets Hulk in a rest hold until Hulk breaks out. Zeus tags back in and he puts Hulk in another bearhug. I think it's a safe bet that this is the only thing he knows how to do. Hulk slowly passes out for what feels like hours until finally mustering the energy to break free. Dear god, this is painful. Things look brighter for a brief shining second as Savage hits a necksnap and a back suplex but Burtus gets the hot tag and replies with a running knee. He locks on the Sleeper Hold but Savage drops to his knees and drives him into the turnbuckle. Zeus comes in so Burtus copies Hulk's playbook by going for the eyes and then slaps on the Sleeper Hold. It actually looks to be wearing Zeus down but then Savage slides in and he HITS BURTUS WITH THE HANDBAG. Ahahaha. Burtus sells it like absolute death. Oh my god, this is the goofiest poo poo. Schiavone suggests the handbag is loaded with something much heavier and yes, that makes total sense. However, I'm going to keep believing it's just a normal handbag because that's so much funnier. Savage tags in and starts trying to pin Burtus but Hulk keeps breaking it up. In response Savage jumps out the ring and goes after Elizabeth. Hulk manages to save her though. This is making me sad, I don't want to see Savage and Elizabeth like this. I hope they reunite soon. In the ring Burtus has recovered and Zeus wails away on him. He ends up choking Burtus out and when the referee sees this he decides to take an extreme course of action so he starts choking Zeus. What the hell, dude? You've got a five count for a reason.  Careful Zeus, Earl's undefeated on PPV Savage and Burtus collide with a double clothesline and both men go down. Burtus crawls over and gets the hot tag to Hulk who nails Savage with a big boot. The two men brawl and Savage comes out on top. With Hulk laid out on the mat Savage goes up top and he connects with the Flying Elbow Drop and Hulk immediately stands up. ...No. Just loving no. Look I get it, Hulk. You're the big time face guy. I might not like that but I get it. You've got your whole hulking up shtick and the crowd's into it and this is part of your act. That all makes sense to me. You should be doing the no-sell hulking up thing, it's part of what the crowd have paid to see. But not here, not after one of the deadliest, most-protected moves in the company. You've just turned that move into a joke and you've turned Savage into a joke. Don't be a dick. Anyway, Hulk fights back and hits an atomic drop on Savage but Zeus comes back in. Hulk squares up to Zeus and beats him down to one knee. Sherri jumps up on the apron to complain but Elizabeth tips her over the ropes and into the ring. Burtus takes Savage out with Chekhov's handbag, it's all kicking off. With the ref distracted, Hulk grabs the handbag and nails Zeus with it then he follows with the Leg Drop to get the win. Remember friends, you can see more thrilling action just like this in your local cinema with No Holds Barred, coming soon to a cinemax near you thirty years ago.  BUY OUR poo poo! BUY OUR poo poo! With the match over Hulk confronts Sherri and hits an atomic drop on her. drat. It's one of the lamest, weakest moves in wrestling but it's still so weird to see man-on-woman violence. I'm not going to get into the debate about that now cause it's a really complicated thing but I think I'm ok with this instance. Atomic drops don't do anything anyway. Anyway, Sherri staggers around and Elizabeth hits her in the face with the handbag. Boy, that thing sure has seen a lot of action tonight. I sure got told with that one. Now that Sherri's out of it Burtus has free reign to pull out his shears and starts hacking away at her braid. Nobody tell Burtus but considering how long Sherri's hair looked at WM5 I'm fairly sure it's a fake. Savage and Zeus rescue Sherri and help her to the back while the faces start one of those ridiculous extended pose celebrations that I'm always annoyed by. This one's quite funny though because halfway through Schiavone clearly runs out of things to say and just trails into awkward silence. The highlights play and Jesse has a go at Hulk for attacking Sherri. Schiavone thinks that “everyone in the world wanted him to punch her right in the mouth”. Jesus, dude, that's a bit far.  Molly Holly wants words with you, Burtus Ugh, this match was a big stinking liability. Even with all the overbooked antics and shenanigans it was still godawful. Zeus needs to be never allowed near a wrestling ring again because he was interminable. The only positive thing that I can say that it was really cool to see Sherri getting involved with the main event and making a big part of the story about the conflict between two women. It's not much and it's going to take a long time to evolve things further but it was great to see women involved in the main event and as characters with their own motivations and agencies. That's what we call progress. And there we have it, Summerslam 1989 is done and dusted. In the immortal words of one-time England manager Sven Goran Eriksson “first half good, second half not so good”. Up until the intermission this was far and away the best PPV the WWF had produced yet. There were three matches of really high quality that are three of the best I've seen so far. I was so invested and so excited and marking out all over the place. Then the intermission came and the second half of the show took a big steaming dump all over my excitement. None of those matches in the second half were worth a moment of my time and building the entire show around an immobile slab of an actor was such a terrible idea. This show was heading towards my highest rating yet but put the two halves together and it gets six Kanes.  /10
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Nov 15, 2017 20:21
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You really need to watch The Fifth Element, where Zeus is President of Earth. Also he has 209 acting credits on IMDB LOL. Not a typo, TWO HUNDRED AND NINE.
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Nov 15, 2017 21:23
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I always appreciated what WWF did to make Zeus relatively passable. Hogan, Beefcake and Savage did their best to lead him around and play off of him and the booking helped make him seem like an uncontrollable monster. Then after leaving WWF, he did a special attraction match in Puerto Rico where he took on Abdullah the Butcher. There were no smoke and mirrors to help him and it ended up being one of the worst matches I have ever seen.
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Nov 15, 2017 21:29
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I forget, was Sherri the AWA Women's Champion when Vince hired her? I'm pretty sure she held that title, and it sounds like the kind of thing Vince would do, especially if he had the Wendi Richter thing in mind, so he could get a ready-made lady heel star AND gently caress over Verne at the same time.
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Nov 15, 2017 21:31
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sean10mm posted:You really need to watch The Fifth Element, where Zeus is President of Earth. Other noteable credits include Matlock, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Walker Texas Ranger, Jackie Brown, The Cheapest Movie Ever Made, Austin Powers in Goldmember, 50 Cent: Bulletproof, Regular Show, Comedy Bang! Bang!, The Human Centipede III and Zootopia. The man's got a hell of an agent
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Nov 15, 2017 21:34
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Now that the PPV is in the books, time to pull out my Observer awards 1986 Wrestling Observer Newsletter Awards Rarity only got to see Wrestlemania 2 this year, but things will be picking up soon. Ric Flair took Wrestler of the Year (Hogan finished a distant 2nd) and a new category, Most Outstanding Wrestler (WWF was shut out). For the second year in a row, The Hulkster took Best Babyface. Best Heel went to Michael Hayes. WWF's Paul Orndorff took 5th. Feud of the Year did go to WWF, but in a feud Rarity never even got to see, Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff. WWF also got 4th with Jakes Roberts vs. Ricky Steamboat. The British Bulldogs fell to 5th in 1986's Tag Team of the Year award. WWF was shut out of Most Improved, but a guy named Shawn Michaels got 5th. I wonder if he's related to last year's rookie standout Sean Michaels? I bet they'd make a decent tag team. WWF took most of Most Unimproved, with Bob Orton getting first, Paul Orndorff getting 3rd (how do you have the feud of the year, be one of the best heels in the business, AND be unimproved?), Roddy Piper getting 4th, and Dynamite Kid getting 5th. Most Obnoxious was a strong, strong category for WWF too, with Vince McMahon taking the category yet again, with Gorilla finishing runner up. Vince McMahon Wrestling Observer Awards: 2 Piper was the only rep on Best on Interviews, finishing 4th. Most Charismatic was a landslide victory for Hulk Hogan, as expected. WWF was shut out of Best Technical Wrestler, Best Brawler, and Best Flying Wrestler. Never let anyone tell you Observer voters care in the slightest about charisma and being over and any of that worthless garbage, as Hulk Hogan won Most Overrated. Also don't let anyone tell you Observer voters think being in the best feud in the world means anything, as Paul Orndorff finished 3rd. Sounds more like non-WWF fans being mad as hell that their wrestling isn't as good at being enjoyable for casual fans as WWF's. Wait, that's still the case today. JYD finished 5th. Most Underrated has only one notable entry, Bret Hart, finishing 2nd. WWF (or rather, Titan Sports) finished 5th in Best Promotion. Congrats Rarity, you're watching the 5th best promotion of 1986!  Their TV got shut out of Best TV Show though.WWF got almost completely shut out of Match of the Year, but at the very, very bottom of the voting, the British Bulldogs vs. Greg Valentine and Brutus Beefcake got some votes. So we can officially say that Brutus Beefcake, at one point, had the best match in a year of WWF programming. Rookie of the Year had a runaway winner, Bam Bam Bigelow. Bobby Heenan was a distant 2nd for Manager of the Year, behind ol' Jimmy Cornette. WWF got shut out of Best Television Announcer, but on the bright side Gorilla only finished 3rd in Worst Television Announcer, thanks to the efforts of winner David Crockett and 2nd place Bill Mercer, who only had  ONE POINT determining the champion. Every vote counts.Last year's winner of Best Wrestling Move, Dynamite Kid's superplex, finished 3rd, Jake Roberts' DDT finished 2nd, both behind Chavo Guerrero (Sr.)'s "backflip flying body press", which I'm 95% sure is nowadays known as a moonsault. Now I want a wrestler whose gimmick is 'does Observer Award Winning Moves From the 80s'. I love all of these moves. For Hardest Worker Bret got a very, very, very distant 3rd. Biggest Shock of the Year is a very sad category this year. 3rd place is Harley Race going to WWF, which is only sad because oh boy Harley got old. 2nd place was the death of Gino Hernandez, who officially passed away of a cocaine overdose. A lot of people then and now suspect foul play was involved, though. First place was the Magnum T.A.'s accident. Magnum was supposed to be the future of the NWA, likely winning the NWA Title relatively soon, before he was in a car accident that left him partially paralyzed at the time of this voting. On that happy note, let's move on to Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic. Adrian Adonis' gimmick got third place, with the winner of the category being a wrestler's gimmick blindness being equated to the above Gino Hernandez's death (World Class Championship Wrestling). Wrestling is lovely. Fourth place was Starcade being hyped up by implying that Magnum T.A. would still be wrestling (Jim Crockett Promotions). In hindsight, maybe the good guy did win all the wrestling wars. This category is only going to get worse. Jesse Ventura took 2nd in Best TV Color Commentator, behind Michael Hayes. Strongest Wrestler went to Road Warrior Animal. Dr. Death needs to work out, he only got second. Roddy Piper took a distant third in Readers' Favorite Wrestler. Notable is Road Warrior Hawk got 13 votes, but none for Animal. I'm not sure why I find it notable, I just do. Hulk Hogan of course won Least Favorite Wrestler. Buncha haters. JYD got third. Andre finished 2nd in Worst Wrestler, behind Mike Von Erich. Yes, the same Mike Von Erich whose near death the year prior was the catalyst for the winner of Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic. He lost a ton of his physical ability from his near death, and it showed, if I recall correctly. Worst Tag Team of the Year was yet again dodged by Rarity, WWF's Junkyard Dog and George The Animal Steele. WWF was nowhere to be found on Worst Television Show. Mr. Fuji finished a mere 3rd in Worst Manager. Now, this seems like the best time to do a short round of... THING RARITY SAID Rarity posted:And that is Wrestlemania II done and dusted and oh my god, it was so bad. WORST MATCH OF THE YEAR. Third place was Don Muraco vs. Paul Orndorff from Wrestlemania 2. Second place was Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy from Wrestlemania 2. First place was...Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T from Wrestlemania 2! Worst Feud of the Year went to WWF's Machines vs. King Kong Bundy and Big John Studd. Who were the Machines? They were Andre The Giant, Bill Eadie (the future Ax), and Blackjack Mulligan (Bray Wyatt and Bo Dallas's grandpa) all under masks so you couldn't tell who they were. Sometimes they were joined by Hulk Machine (Hulk Hogan), Animal Machine (George Steele), or Piper Machine. Also under masks. This all sounds incredibly stupid and I love it. WWF for once got shut out of a bad category, Worst on Interviews and a good category, Best Valet. Proving that wrestling fans have no taste, MISS FREAKING ELIZABETH tied for the title of Worst Valet. WWF finished 4th in Worst Promotion. WWF finished shut out of Best Booker. Jake "The Snake" picked up another second place, finishing closely behind Adrian Street in Best Gimmick. Adrian Adonis (who did a similar gimmick to Street but much, much grosser) won Worst Gimmick George Steele finished 3rd, and THE DANG HONKY TONK MAN got 2nd. Steele also picked up another third place in Most Embarassing Wrestler. Second place was Mike Von Erich, first place went to Mr. Adrian Adonis. There's 1986's awards in the book. 1987 will probably come after 1990 is done. Staying ~3 years behind seems like a good pace.
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Nov 15, 2017 22:56
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So I feel that Wrestlemania 5 marks a turning point in 80s WWF. From Hogan's coronation to the end of that show the booking was really just phenomenal; it's not infallible, you could argue Piper should have had a longer run and got a chance with the belt, or that they blew things with Dibiase as title challenger by making him seem like a non-wrestler, but by and large the results for this six years really speak for themselves. But at WM5 they cut a really hot Savage off at the knees to rush the belt back into Hogan and miss a chance to establish him more permanently as a Hogan level draw, and then by Summerslam they've devalued him even further in favor of Zeus, who got over big as a heel, but they were sabotaging a long-term draw in favor of a short-term draw. And no spoilers, but the next couple years the WWF makes a lot of similar mistakes with wrestlers they try to push into the main event. They still have a few really hot years left in them, this isn't the start of the decline, but dropping the ball on Savage is the first in a series of booking mistakes that all come together to hurt them later on when Hogan is getting older and bored with wrestling.
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Nov 15, 2017 23:25
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rare Magic card l00k posted:WWF got almost completely shut out of Match of the Year, but at the very, very bottom of the voting, the British Bulldogs vs. Greg Valentine and Brutus Beefcake got some votes. So we can officially say that Brutus Beefcake, at one point, had the best match in a year of WWF programming. Oh lord, thank god 1986 was a 1 PPV year. rare Magic card l00k posted:On that happy note, let's move on to Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic. Adrian Adonis' gimmick got third place, with the winner of the category being a wrestler's gimmick blindness being equated to the above Gino Hernandez's death (World Class Championship Wrestling). Wrestling is lovely. Fourth place was Starcade being hyped up by implying that Magnum T.A. would still be wrestling (Jim Crockett Promotions). In hindsight, maybe the good guy did win all the wrestling wars. This category is only going to get worse There is rightfully what sounds like some awful poo poo there but I'm really glad that Adonis gimmick is getting no love because oh my god I forgot how bad it was. rare Magic card l00k posted:Andre finished 2nd in Worst Wrestler I totally agree but I'm pretty shocked by this. I thought Andre had this whole deal where everyone loved him despite his many in-ring issues. I mean, just look at his reaction at WM3. rare Magic card l00k posted:Worst Tag Team of the Year was yet again dodged by Rarity, WWF's Junkyard Dog and George The Animal Steele. Just the suggestion of that team is giving me the shivers. rare Magic card l00k posted:WORST MATCH OF THE YEAR. Third place was Don Muraco vs. Paul Orndorff from Wrestlemania 2. Second place was Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy from Wrestlemania 2. First place was...Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T from Wrestlemania 2! Jeepers  rare Magic card l00k posted:Proving that wrestling fans have no taste, MISS FREAKING ELIZABETH tied for the title of Worst Valet. 1986 wrestling fans, meet me round the bike sheds. We need to have us some words  rare Magic card l00k posted:Adrian Adonis (who did a similar gimmick to Street but much, much grosser) won Worst Gimmick George Steele finished 3rd, and THE DANG HONKY TONK MAN got 2nd. Gimme all dat Adonis and Steele hate yessssssssss e: Personally I wouldn't mind if you tried to catch things up a bit, the further in we go the longer a gap that's going to be. Your call though, I'm just happy to have the bonus contribution 
Rarity fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Nov 15, 2017 |
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Nov 15, 2017 23:48
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Elizabeth was probably considered worst valet in 86 because she didn't actually do anything. No interviews, no interjection into matches, nothing. At that point, valet was just another term for "female manager". Hawk taking a spot in Favorite Wrestler, while Animal got no votes is probably because Hawk did have a string of singles matches against Flair.
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Nov 16, 2017 00:25
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I've been going back and watching some WWF Superstars and SNME from 1990 (which was actually the exact time period I started watching wrestling), and drat is Brutus Beefcake still massively over. It really is something how hard and fast he fell into irrelevance, then outright ridicule. He's a punchline today, but any current WWE main eventer would give up their gonads to get half the reaction Brutus was getting in 89-90.
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Nov 16, 2017 00:33
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rare Magic card l00k posted:WWF (or rather, Titan Sports) finished 5th in Best Promotion.
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Nov 16, 2017 01:00
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frankenfreak posted:I'm really curious who's ahead of them. Crockett Promotions, of course, but behind that? Are people already watching New Japan and All Japan enough to make them matter in these awards? Who else rounds out these top 5? AWA? World Class? CWF? Bill Watts' UWF, New Japan, Crockett, All Japan
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Nov 16, 2017 01:03
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Can you post the Observer awards for every year up to where Rarity is? Those are really interesting to see where wrestling fans were back than!
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Nov 16, 2017 02:34
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Davros1 posted:Elizabeth was probably considered worst valet in 86 because she didn't actually do anything. No interviews, no interjection into matches, nothing. At that point, valet was just another term for "female manager". Hawk was also the fun one when it came to the Roadies promos. "WELLLLLLLLLLL!"
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Nov 16, 2017 02:47
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Endless Mike posted:Can you post the Observer awards for every year up to where Rarity is? Those are really interesting to see where wrestling fans were back than! I'm thinking I'll completely catch up to Rarity once we hit monthly PPVs. It's entirely possible I go "Ok I feel like writing up an Observer awards post" at some point between shows though.
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Nov 16, 2017 02:52
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Okay thank god we got to this part because I've wanted to talk about this for awhile. I was a kid when this show aired, I watched as a joyful Hulkamaniac who believed in and worshiped Hulk Hogan as a paragon of virtue. When Zeus finally started to sell for Hogan's offense I was losing my goddamn mind. When Zeus dropped to a knee I was in near religious fervor. Then Hogan grabbed a loaded purse and used it to knock out Zeus and get the pin.  It was a watershed moment, it was the first time I could recall actively seeing through what WWF was presenting and questioned the idea of Hulk Hogan's integrity. When Jesse responded to,"It's the power of Hulkamania!" with,"It's the power of foreign object!" I actually agreed with the heel commentator. It made no sense, he was beating Zeus down fair and square, why did he use a weapon? Why was this celebrated as a good thing? Didn't it prove Savage right that Hogan couldn't beat Zeus fair and square?
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Nov 16, 2017 02:54
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It depends. A lot of the time the face using nominally heel tactics to beat a big heel is justified because the heel either won dirty in a prior match, or because he's spent the buildup to the match running through the babyface side of the roster using dirty moves. I think people frequently make too much of a big deal out of "why is the top face beating the heel with a chair/belt/etc" though it can be done poorly.
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Nov 16, 2017 03:06
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The way I remember it (and like I said, I was a kid when I last watched it) was that every interaction between Hogan and Zeus before that had Hogan wailing on Zeus and then looking worried when Zeus completely no-sold it. Then they had that tag match, and everybody is running wild, and Hogan has hulked up and he's attacking Zeus who finally sells for the first time and it was so loving great.... before Hogan used the weapon. I don't recall Zeus using any weapons or cheap shots or anything in the build, just being this unstoppable monster who Hogan couldn't hurt.
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Nov 16, 2017 03:14
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If you really deconstruct Hogan's BIG WWF run, he is presented as a Face, but his entire arsenal of offense (except for Big Boot Leg Drop) is all heel work. If I remember correctly, he was initially trained as a heel, but never modified his moveset as a face. Back rakes, eye rakes, using weapons, etc.
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Nov 16, 2017 03:43
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Rarity I've put up with a bunch of your bad opinions on George Steele and the like but hating on Tiny Lister and saying he's "barely an actor" is a bridge too far. The man's Deebo. Deebo is the baddest man on the block. He's a box-office legend. Apologize to Deebo Rarity.
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Nov 16, 2017 03:45
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Jerusalem posted:The way I remember it (and like I said, I was a kid when I last watched it) was that every interaction between Hogan and Zeus before that had Hogan wailing on Zeus and then looking worried when Zeus completely no-sold it. Then they had that tag match, and everybody is running wild, and Hogan has hulked up and he's attacking Zeus who finally sells for the first time and it was so loving great.... before Hogan used the weapon. He snapped Hogan's neck!
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Nov 16, 2017 03:46
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Hockles posted:If you really deconstruct Hogan's BIG WWF run, he is presented as a Face, but his entire arsenal of offense (except for Big Boot Leg Drop) is all heel work. If I remember correctly, he was initially trained as a heel, but never modified his moveset as a face. Back rakes, eye rakes, using weapons, etc. I've never understood the psychology of the back rake. I know a lot of 80's and earlier wrestling moves look laughable by today's standards, but how is giving someone a pleasant back scratch supposed to be a dastardly heel tactic?
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Nov 16, 2017 03:48
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DukeofCA posted:I've never understood the psychology of the back rake. I know a lot of 80's and earlier wrestling moves look laughable by today's standards, but how is giving someone a pleasant back scratch supposed to be a dastardly heel tactic? Coke fueled promos mean at least one dangerously weaponized nail.
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Nov 16, 2017 03:50
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DukeofCA posted:I've never understood the psychology of the back rake. I know a lot of 80's and earlier wrestling moves look laughable by today's standards, but how is giving someone a pleasant back scratch supposed to be a dastardly heel tactic? If you actually do a back rake like AJ Styles has, you claw open their back.
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Nov 16, 2017 04:01
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DukeofCA posted:I've never understood the psychology of the back rake. I know a lot of 80's and earlier wrestling moves look laughable by today's standards, but how is giving someone a pleasant back scratch supposed to be a dastardly heel tactic? because being scratched loving HURTS
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Nov 16, 2017 04:02
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C. Everett Koop posted:Rarity I've put up with a bunch of your bad opinions on George Steele and the like but hating on Tiny Lister and saying he's "barely an actor" is a bridge too far. Let's hear what one of Tiny's closest friends had to say about him!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flqoVkMBSQI
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Nov 16, 2017 04:17
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Jerusalem posted:Okay thank god we got to this part because I've wanted to talk about this for awhile. I really feel your loss of innocence here. It's hard to realise our heroes are but flawed mortal men 
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Nov 16, 2017 06:43
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I for one was glad Savage and Sherri found each other as Team All The loving Cocaine
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Nov 16, 2017 08:47
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DeathChicken posted:I for one was glad Savage and Sherri found each other as Team All The loving Cocaine Yes it's nice to have friends who share your hobbies 
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Nov 16, 2017 08:58
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DukeofCA posted:I've never understood the psychology of the back rake. I know a lot of 80's and earlier wrestling moves look laughable by today's standards, but how is giving someone a pleasant back scratch supposed to be a dastardly heel tactic? Are you saying this isn't dastardly?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZwYus2Bg7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNkCKuqrKXk
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Nov 16, 2017 10:12
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Aesop Poprock posted:Are you saying this isn't dastardly?? History's greatest monsters.
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Nov 16, 2017 11:48
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Hockles posted:If you really deconstruct Hogan's BIG WWF run, he is presented as a Face, but his entire arsenal of offense (except for Big Boot Leg Drop) is all heel work. If I remember correctly, he was initially trained as a heel, but never modified his moveset as a face. Back rakes, eye rakes, using weapons, etc. This, I contend, is the biggest evidence that Hulk Hogan is a lovely worker. I started watching wrestling in 1998, so my first exposure to Hogan was "Hollywood" Heel Hogan, and I saw him wrestle like a heel. Then he turned face in WCW and later in WWE and I think "OK, this is an amalgam of classic Hulk Hogan and modern Hollywood Hogan, and that's why he's still basically wrestling like a heel." And it was the late 90s/early 2000s so acting like a heel but being booked as face was pretty normal then. Years later I watch "The Best of Hulk Hogan" on Netflix. I see matches from 1982 in the AWA and think "How interesting, his heel work in the late 90s and early 2000s was really a throwback to his origins as a monster heel in the icy, windswept hellscape of Minnesota." Finally, I see a match from Iconic Real American Mega-Face Hulk Hogan and then it dawns on me. "  Hulk Hogan is actually one of the most static, mentally lazy workers of all time who hasn't grown, learned, evolved, or pushed himself in any capacity since his first days in the business."
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Nov 16, 2017 14:35
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This is only true if you ignore all his work in Japan, which while overhyped by his apologists is nevertheless visibly different from what he did everywhere else.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:48
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Takuan posted:This, I contend, is the biggest evidence that Hulk Hogan is a lovely worker. I started watching wrestling in 1998, so my first exposure to Hogan was "Hollywood" Heel Hogan, and I saw him wrestle like a heel. Then he turned face in WCW and later in WWE and I think "OK, this is an amalgam of classic Hulk Hogan and modern Hollywood Hogan, and that's why he's still basically wrestling like a heel." And it was the late 90s/early 2000s so acting like a heel but being booked as face was pretty normal then. Years later I watch "The Best of Hulk Hogan" on Netflix. I see matches from 1982 in the AWA and think "How interesting, his heel work in the late 90s and early 2000s was really a throwback to his origins as a monster heel in the icy, windswept hellscape of Minnesota." Finally, I see a match from Iconic Real American Mega-Face Hulk Hogan and then it dawns on me. " He adapted relatively well when he wrestled in New Japan in the 80s. I think Hogan just knows how to read a crowd well enough to know how to do the least amount possible to get himself over wherever he is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-2xuXQnncQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3Mly1h4QsI
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Nov 16, 2017 14:49
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Did Hogan put asses in the seats? Then he's a good worker.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:06
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Aesop Poprock posted:He adapted relatively well when he wrestled in New Japan in the 80s. I think Hogan just knows how to read a crowd well enough to know how to do the least amount possible to get himself over wherever he is. I don't think Hogan ever really had the agility/coordination to do much more than he did in Japan. Japan basically pushed him as far as his physical ability really went I think. He wasn't a guy who was ever going to be able to do Undertaker-style suicide dives and tightrope walks and poo poo even if he was hypothetically more motivated.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:39
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Jerusalem posted:Okay thank god we got to this part because I've wanted to talk about this for awhile. I always gave Hogan a pass on that one because the other side already cheated. Hogan survived getting unfairly hit with the weapon beforehand, so he has the right to even the odds. I'll comment more once Rarity finishes off the angle, but I like to think of the Zeus feud as one of Hogan's best storylines. It has a beginning, middle and end, Hogan doesn't go over the line as a jerk and they don't rely on the usual Hogan invincible laziness to kill the drama. Zeus might just be stronger than Hogan, but that just means Hogan has to combat him in a different way.
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Nov 16, 2017 18:19
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