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Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
B&V has hit peak retro in Austin v Rock full swing, the sheer joy of Austin and Rock and McMahon is not changed in retrospect - they were just that loving good. Everything around them sucks, which is a theme in that this will never happen again and thats ok but stop trying to make this happen again.

Between this and the NWA shows its the best shows.

Lid fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 15, 2017

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Lid posted:

B&V has hit peak retro in Austin v Rock full swing, the sheer joy of Austin and Rock and McMahon is not changed in retrospect - they were just that loving good. Everything around them sucks, which is a theme in that this will never happen again and thats ok but stop trying to make this happen again.

Between this and the NWA shows its the best shows.

Bryan doing THE MATH on why there'll never be a boom period like that again was great too.

Best part was his sheer disbelief as he states,"Nitro was the worst it has ever been.... and it's only going to get worse. Raw was the best it has ever been.... and it's only going to get better :stare:"

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN
I dunno, they're in for some rough times when they get to 99 and Raw doubles down on Russo-ism

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Benne posted:

I dunno, they're in for some rough times when they get to 99 and Raw doubles down on Russo-ism

Yes but it also means things like Crash Holly, Y2J and KURT ANGLE

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
How Kurt didn't win the WON rookie of the year award in 1999 (Blitzkrieg did) is lifes biggest mystery.

Edit: just realised in the entire history of the rookie awards only two WWE wrestlers have ever been rookies of the year - Chad Gable and Tom Zenk in 1984 and Zenk tied for that award with some no name guy called Keiichi Yamada who no one has heard that name of since 1984.

(Brock should've won over Bob Sapp)

Lid fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Nov 16, 2017

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



Jerusalem posted:

Bryan doing THE MATH on why there'll never be a boom period like that again was great too.
I was digging through some old posts and remembered the WWE survey claiming over 100 million wrestling fans in the US.

Lid posted:

How Kurt didn't win the WON rookie of the year award in 1999 (Blitzkrieg did) is lifes biggest mystery.
Kurt was in Memphis and mostly worked dark matches until Survivor Series.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Lid posted:

How Kurt didn't win the WON rookie of the year award in 1999 (Blitzkrieg did) is lifes biggest mystery.

Edit: just realised in the entire history of the rookie awards only two WWE wrestlers have ever been rookies of the year - Chad Gable and Tom Zenk in 1984 and Zenk tied for that award with some no name guy called Keiichi Yamada who no one has heard that name of since 1984.

(Brock should've won over Bob Sapp)

Kurt Angle winning that year would have been completely idiotic.

oatgan
Jan 15, 2009

because blitzkrieg was bad rear end

rare Magic card l00k
Jan 3, 2011


Lid posted:

(Brock should've won over Bob Sapp)

You generally have to be a rookie to win rookie of the year.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
Didnt stop Matt Riddle

The D in Detroit
Oct 13, 2012

oatgan posted:

blitzkrieg was bad rear end

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.
Tom Zenk loving sucked though

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Tom Zenk loving sucked though

Uh, no he was really good.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.
I'm watching 1990/91 WCW and I hate him.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

He's real bad and even worse when standing next to the extremely good Rick Martel.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
He was a good worker and a beloved (and probably problematic in retrospect) WOL guest.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.
Konnan was a beloved WOR guest so I think the standards here are somewhat low

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Konnan was a beloved WOR guest so I think the standards here are somewhat low

Konnan asked Bryan Alvarez questions so that was cool.

Tom Zenk was legitimately an eyada era phenom, people loved him, thought his appearances were the funniest thing and demanded more of him. Standards for wrestling humor are obviously low but drat was that dude popular in the MNW era IWC.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




Feels Villeneuve posted:

Tom Zenk loving sucked though

How do we get the Z-Man unsilenced, he gave the best interviews on the old eyada Meltzer shows

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.
I am steadfast in my Anti-Zeeman opinions here.

Numero6
Oct 10, 2012

ここは地の果て 流されて俺
今日もさすらい 涙も涸れる
ブルーゲイル
I remember his website that was full of dirt about other wrestlers. It was so weird to see somebody who played a super cleancut babyface being a total smug bastard irl.

and since that time I really wonder if Tom Zenk would have been a successful heel.

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

KISS ME KRIS

dissing Tom Zenk should be a bannable offence.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.
honestly I thought "Greg 'The Hammer' Valentine was loving great" would be a more controversial opinion for me to hold than "Tom 'The Z Man' Zenk sucked rear end"

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Feels Villeneuve posted:

honestly I thought "Greg 'The Hammer' Valentine was loving great" would be a more controversial opinion for me to hold than "Tom 'The Z Man' Zenk sucked rear end"

Greg was good until he was bad.

Also I forgot to not ask Dave if he has "memories" of something but specifics about business, I still know almost nothing about CCW.

Platypus Farm
Jul 12, 2003

Francis is my name, and breeding is my game. All bow before the fertile smut-god!
Tom Zenk was very good on family feud RIP ray combs

edit: also greg was Really Good in the 70s and didn't get awful until like 86 when he got WWF lazy

Platypus Farm fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Nov 16, 2017

CombineThresher
Apr 10, 2006

GIT R DONNE

Z-Man was even more bitter and full of poo poo than the Honky Tonk Man, and I miss the guy just for that.

bartok
May 10, 2006



I liked Tom Zenk getting absolutely destroyed by Vader and his feud with Brian Pillman.
Zenk's glass ceiling was always going to be perennial WCW Saturday Night TV Title contender, face they could throw into a midcard 6-man tag match, and named opponent for a higher on the card heel to defeat. Wrestling needs those guys and while I preferred Brad Armstrong in that role in WCW I thought Zenk was okay.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Brad Armstrong was amazing.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Setter is Better.

Platypus Farm posted:

Tom Zenk was very good on family feud RIP ray combs

edit: also greg was Really Good in the 70s and didn't get awful until like 86 when he got WWF lazy

Greg/Tito is an All Time WWF feud based on match quality


also the 1990 match at the Royal Rumble with Ronnie Garvin kicks rear end

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I remember people being into Garvin vs. Flair until Garvin actually won the title and then they were like "WTF, he is not worthy of beating the Nature Boy." Probably because Ric was usually a tweener, no matter how big of a dick he was.

Karmine
Oct 23, 2003

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.
It is well documented that I am pro-Valentine, but the highlight of his career was definitely Rhythm & Blues.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN
Finally caught up on this week's Retro Raw. I never saw the Road Warrior Hawk angle before and holy poo poo it's even worse than I heard :stare:

Tato
Jun 19, 2001

DIRECTIVE 236: Promote pro-social values
Z Man ruled. I wish someone kept an archive of those bitter rants he and Honky would post on their sites. Maybe the Wayback Machine has them.

Also love the pic of Zenk in Johnny Ace's lap

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

Karmine posted:

It is well documented that I am pro-Valentine, but the highlight of his career was definitely Rhythm & Blues.

Valentine with that black hair is legitimately stomach-turning.

Platypus Farm
Jul 12, 2003

Francis is my name, and breeding is my game. All bow before the fertile smut-god!

flashy_mcflash posted:

Valentine with that black hair is legitimately stomach-turning.

Don't forget the sneering at the camera like elvis

Gold Sexy Body
Nov 17, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 5 years!
Jesus loving tap dancing christ, sempervive is insufferable.

dsriggs
May 28, 2012

MONEY FALLS...

...FROM THE SKY...

...WHENEVER HE POSTS!
https://twitter.com/iamjohnpollock/status/931344071892725761

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Gold Sexy Body posted:

Jesus loving tap dancing christ, sempervive is insufferable.

i honestly don't know how bryan puts up with him

Gold Sexy Body
Nov 17, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 5 years!

Raskolnikov38 posted:

i honestly don't know how bryan puts up with him

You know what, I can't believe that look listen, not having a roof on like look listen at the end of the day it is stupid to not look have a roof ion the cage and yeah you can do it without a roof but yeah you know what it is stupid and yeah i can't believe they're not putting a roof on the cage and putting it back at war games and it is silly but it's not even worth talking about at the end of the day and you know what it's not a big deal and yeah it is stupid but you know what who cares it is what it is can we just move on

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Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN
Semp was at least semi-tolerable when he didn't know how annoying he was. Once he decided to make that his gimmick WOL became actively unlistenable.

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