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M_Gargantua posted:
He's in this book though, albeit via the chapter-starting letters. He's starting to Do the Homework and knows about the threat Rayse is, and is sympathetic to people trying to do things about it, but he's almost paralyzed by the opposing shards and even says so directly. I don't think he has any part in the book other than that. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Going back and reading Kaladin's return to Hearthstone, still feels good. "And why should we listen to you, slave?" *goes Super Saiyan, slams down a bigass sword* Interesting aside, dead spren blades apparently "permanently" change eye color (as long as they're bound). LiveSpren appear to only do so when summoned. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 19:10
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OAquinas posted:He's in this book though, albeit via the chapter-starting letters. Oh yeah, I knew that, I thought he meant showing up/direct contact. I'm assuming he's speaking to Hoid in the following letter that starts at ch53. quote:Friend, Your letter is most intriguing, even revelatory. Which seems to be another message that Hoid received in answer to his inquiry's. The first one which was seemingly responded too by a different Shard than intended. quote:Cephandrius, bearer of the First Gem. You must have known better than to approach us by relying upon presumption of past relationship. You have spoken to one who cannot respond. We, instead, will take your communication to us - though we know not how you located us upon this world. We are indeed intrigued, for we thought it well hidden. Insignificant among our many realms. As the waves of the sea must continue to surge, so must our will continue resolute. Alone. Did you expect anything from us? We need not suffer the interference of another. Rayse is contained, and we care not for his prison. Indeed, we admire his initiative. Perhaps if you had approached the correct one of us with your plea, it would have found favorable audience. But we stand in the sea, pleased with our domains. Leave us Alone. We also instruct that you should not return to Obrodai. We have claimed that world, and a new avatar of our being is beginning ot manifest there. She is young yet, and - as a precaution - she has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of you. This is all we will say at this time. If you wish more, seek these waters in person and overcome the tests we have created. Only in this will you earn our respect. Which I suspect may be the yet unnamed Shard who only wants to hide and survive M_Gargantua fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 19:37
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M_Gargantua posted:I'm fairly certain it isn't at all. Even not knowing specifically who you're thinking of. We also know (via WoB?) that Odium fears Harmony and is making plans for trying to deal with him since he can't directly fight Harmony because he'd lose in a contest of power. If something happens that causes them to actually face off I imagine Odium's going to try and rely on making Harmony's opposing powers weaken or destroy him. Rayse can't fight Sazed directly, and even a bunch of Fused would get completely wrecked by Harmony's forces so a battle between minions would be out as well. Full power Mistborns are powerful in their own right but I imagine anyone who invests in Harmony's powers is going to have mistborn and terris powers in full, which is what made the Lord Ruler so incredibly powerful. Also they'd likely know how to make full use of Hemalurgy, which is arguably the single most powerful ability in the cosmere. Fused/Surgebinders wouldn't just be outmatched, they'd be a source of even more power. Imagine the Lord Ruler with access to surges. Rayse's forces couldn't use Hemalurgy themselves either because that'd open them to Harmony's influence. It's probably why there doesn't seem to be any indication of Hoid using it either, since it could make him susceptible to Harmony, and/or act as a beacon making him easier for Rayse and others to locate. There's also an interesting (secret history) thing to consider after reading Oathbringer: Sazed's surprise means that through any discussions he and Kelsier have had over the years/centuries/whatever, Kelsier never gave him a full recounting of his time after death before Sazed ascended because he'd know about Hoid to some degree otherwise. It also makes me hope that Kelsier is the Mistborn that eventually ends up on Roshar because sooner or later people from that world are going to start getting involved too. Alternately, I'd take a Sazed-empowered Wax and Wayne showing up to shoot poo poo. Or even just Wayne. Who then meets Lopen so we get Lopen and Wayne's Excellent Adventures.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:42
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So I have a question after reading Oathbringer If humans are the voidbringers who destroyed their own world with stormlight under the influence of Odium, why is surgebinding powered by stormlight which comes from Honor's highstorms? Shouldn't surgebinding come from Odium somehow?
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Nov 19, 2017 21:53
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Grouchy Fish posted:So I have a question after reading Oathbringer It seems likely "surgebinding" in that part of the book refers to any of the magic inherent to this planetary system, not just that fueled by Honor - those ancient humans were probably Voidbinders or whatever you call people doing Odium-magic
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Nov 19, 2017 22:05
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Grouchy Fish posted:So I have a question after reading Oathbringer It's stated directly that the Listeners/Parsh don't have nahel bonds, and so haven't been able to access stormlight/surges in the same way humans do...until now, anyway. Odium granted their 'forms of Power' access to voidlight and they use that to power their surges. All cosmere magic runs off of Investiture; native magic runs off the native 'flavor' of it most easily but it can be adapted. Stormlight is readily available, so all the incoming humans had to do was find a way to internalize it/make it accessible to them to use for surges. The Nahel bond accomplishes this, along with surge access. Interestingly, humans have zero 'footprint' on stormlight or the native life otherwise--the Parsh have gemhearts that can capture or interface with it, and most other creatures have gemhearts as well. So whether surgebinding was a foreign magic that was just adopted by the spren/adapted to stormlight investiture, or if it was what was used on another planet in the system (so not much adaptation required) is a lingering question. Also worth noting that Roshar predates Honor and Cultivation, so they may have brought it over with them. Timeline's fuzzy. Odium will make use of native life to further his goals, but he resists putting roots down anywhere. He may have imported humans to screw with the native balance and create conflict, but the humans and their magic systems were probably someone else's project that he just took off the shelf.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:12
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Grouchy Fish posted:So I have a question after reading Oathbringer
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Nov 19, 2017 22:22
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Evil Fluffy posted:Or even just Wayne. Who then meets Lopen so we get Lopen and Wayne's Excellent Adventures. I've never wanted something to happen as much as I now want this to happen.
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Nov 20, 2017 02:49
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Do we know which era of Mistborn is contemporary to the Stormlight Archive?
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Nov 20, 2017 05:47
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funkymonks posted:Do we know which era of Mistborn is contemporary to the Stormlight Archive? Sanderson posted:
Prolific rear end in a top hat retcon'd himself. As of 2016, Alloy of Law is somewhere after Stormlight 5 (which hasn't come out yet). It should be somewhat concurrent with Stormlight 5-6 time jump or somewhere during 6-10; he hasn't plotted it out exactly yet. So anything we see from Sazed is prologue to Era 2 Scadrial. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 05:51
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As I understand it the Alloy era books take place during the decade or so gap between Stormlight 5 and 6.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:57
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eszett engma posted:As I understand it the Alloy era books take place during the decade or so gap between Stormlight 5 and 6. yeah he changed it to this so he can presumably make the crossover between the two series even more extreme come book 6
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Nov 20, 2017 05:59
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I did it, went through the entire wheel of time series again, to keep me occupied until this book came out, worked out nearly perfect. Finished Amol this weekend but I ordered the book from amazon.co.uk so delivery isn't estimated until friday or next monday 
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Nov 20, 2017 10:36
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I have a theory Taravangian asked the Nightwatcher for the ability to save their world. Presumably this means Roshar. We see at the end of the book that he is working for Odium, and that even Odium is impressed by the diagram. We're being lead to believe that the Diagram is the result of his boon, but I'm guessing at some point, it will become obvious that the Diagram is a giant red herring and that its Taravangian's dull days that will end up saving the world. Whether that's in the form of him being at his absolute dumbest as Odium's champion (which honestly would be kind of funny), or its the fact that when he's having his "dumb" days, hes much more soft-hearted remains to be seen.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:52
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Phummus posted:I have a theory Or if the diagram could end up saving the humans original world somehow because he didn't specify Roshar
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Nov 20, 2017 16:23
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Xemloth posted:Or if the diagram could end up saving the humans original world somehow because he didn't specify Roshar That would be pretty funny actually. Roshar gets torn to shreds, but through the Diagram, Taravangian figures out how to repair their home world
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Nov 20, 2017 16:24
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So in one of the last interludes with the lady in the bank she had some sort of pet that feed on Stormlight and grew larger. Is that supposed to be some sort of spren that manifested in the physical world? I don't remember any mention of naturally occurring creatures that did that. Also I want to say that Lift, Szeth, and Nightblood are a great team and I really want to know what is up with the Shin just hanging on to all the honorblades and having people train with them.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:38
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Book was great. gently caress the haters.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:39
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Ethiser posted:So in one of the last interludes with the lady in the bank she had some sort of pet that feed on Stormlight and grew larger. Is that supposed to be some sort of spren that manifested in the physical world? I don't remember any mention of naturally occurring creatures that did that. She was a character out of one of Sanderson's short stories, "Sixth of the Dusk".
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Nov 20, 2017 16:48
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Ethiser posted:So in one of the last interludes with the lady in the bank she had some sort of pet that feed on Stormlight and grew larger. Is that supposed to be some sort of spren that manifested in the physical world? I don't remember any mention of naturally occurring creatures that did that. It's a Larkin, she got it from impressing the giant greatshell/island thing during interludes in WoR, where she fell into the water from way up high and ended up in a wheelchair: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Larkin
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Nov 20, 2017 17:05
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Nale also used a larkin when he tried to kill Lift in WoR. It eats Investiture, which fuels cosmere magic. Very Bad for void/surgebinders; probably not as bad for allomancers. I'd be curious to see what would happen with it vs an Invested object like Nightblood; though it's probably has its power "fixed" enough to not be subject to hoovering up. Re: the Shin At this point we can make a few conclusions. 1) they keep to the original 'deal' with regards to Humanity's refuge on Roshar (even though Humanity has kinda way overrun it at this point). 2) they were likely proximate to the Honorblades when they were left in a circle. The Blades would be known then as the Herald's pointy sticks, so the value was known/they were kept safe as the enormously potent artifacts they are. 3) Why certain people trained with them and why they'd cast someone out with a God-Blade and a rock is uh...less obvious. This will be the big mystery/worldbuilding of Book 4 probably. 4) They really, REALLY are averse to change. They are aware that the end times could occur at some point, but even in the face of the Everstorm they don't want to aid humanity. Possibly due to shame for violation of the 'stick to the soil' agreement? Shin are rather enigmatic/weird.
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Nov 20, 2017 17:45
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OAquinas posted:Nale also used a larkin when he tried to kill Lift in WoR. It eats Investiture, which fuels cosmere magic. Very Bad for void/surgebinders; probably not as bad for allomancers. I'd be curious to see what would happen with it vs an Invested object like Nightblood; though it's probably has its power "fixed" enough to not be subject to hoovering up. Related to this one, In one of the visions Dalinar kept going back to, the one about the "Final Desolation" he found the 9 blades in a circle and noticed a guy all by himself seeing them as well. He described the guy as looking like he was Shin. I just figured some Shin guy found the blades, realized what they were and brought them back to his local priest/stone shaman/whoever and it got dealt with from there.
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Nov 20, 2017 19:09
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Related to Dalinar's repeated instruction to Unite them. - He kept assuming different things, like uniting the Alethi, then uniting the humans, and then considering uniting the humans with the parsh. And then a subtext of uniting humans and spren. But when he confronts Odium, did anyone else get the impression that he was supposed to be uniting the splinters of Honor, and that's his real task?seaborgium posted:Related to this one, In one of the visions Dalinar kept going back to, the one about the "Final Desolation" he found the 9 blades in a circle and noticed a guy all by himself seeing them as well. He described the guy as looking like he was Shin. I just figured some Shin guy found the blades, realized what they were and brought them back to his local priest/stone shaman/whoever and it got dealt with from there.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:46
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Phummus posted:I have a theory I agree - it's probably a big misstep for Odium to choose to only talk with Taravangian when he is at his most compassionate.
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Nov 21, 2017 03:57
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Infinite Karma posted:Related to Dalinar's repeated instruction to Unite them. - He kept assuming different things, like uniting the Alethi, then uniting the humans, and then considering uniting the humans with the parsh. And then a subtext of uniting humans and spren. But when he confronts Odium, did anyone else get the impression that he was supposed to be uniting the splinters of Honor, and that's his real task? Maybe, since one of the times that he hears the voice (which is explicitly not coming from the Stormfather), it says unite us. Since the voice isn't from the Stormfather it's coming from another powerful source so another shard of Honor could certainly be the source. Other possibilities are an Unmade, but considering that when Dalinar spoke the Third Ideal he declared himself to Odium as Unity, it seems like whatever Dalinar is supposed to unite could also be multiple things. Unite the people of the world, unite Honor's splinters, unite the Shards currently in Roshar. If Dalinar survives to speak the Fifth Ideal as a Bondsmith he'll probably be at the point of ascension to become Honor or some other shard depending on the state of Odium and Cultivation at that point. I'm really interest to see what happens in the fourth book, or any novellas before then, involving Rock. He always swore against fighting but when Kaladin was about to be killed he made the decision to abandon that vow (oath? So the Stormfather might have some rumblings about it) to save him. Not only that, he did so using a Shardbow, something that normally takes superhuman strength to use. At the very least Rock has superhuman strength (because Stormlight alone doesn't provide it) or he was able to use lashings to draw and fire a shardbow with high accuracy and at a fast rate (which would likely mean a mastery/understanding of lashings that dwarfs even Kaladin). Considering that he, and maybe his people in general, used to swim in Cultivation's Perpendicularity, I imagine Rock has all sorts of quirks beyond his ability to see spren even when they hide themselves. I also like that Teft was the second person to become a full Windrunner, even if he hates himself at a rate even peak Emo Kaladin couldn't match. Then there's just Lopen, Skar, and Drehy for people who we know to have spoke the Second Ideal?
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Nov 21, 2017 06:43
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Evil Fluffy posted:Maybe, since If Dalinar survives to speak the Fifth Ideal as a Bondsmith he'll probably be at the point of ascension to become Honor or some other shard depending on the state of Odium and Cultivation at that point. Im kind of hoping he gets killed, and now that he's a sliver of honor thanks to what he just did, he gets the lingering death treatment Kelsier got. Then he swears the fifth ideal from beyond the grave as he reunites the fragments of honor.
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Nov 21, 2017 08:05
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M_Gargantua posted:Im kind of hoping he gets killed, and now that he's a sliver of honor thanks to what he just did, he gets the lingering death treatment Kelsier got. Then he swears the fifth ideal from beyond the grave as he reunites the fragments of honor. Which wouldn't do him much good, since Secret History clearly establishes that you need to have a (living) physical body to take up a shard.
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Nov 21, 2017 09:49
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Plus he can just hitch a ride to Shadesmar with Jasnah; they don't have nearly the same trouble getting to the cognitive realm as other groups.
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Nov 21, 2017 16:21
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Infinite Karma posted:Related to Dalinar's repeated instruction to Unite them. - He kept assuming different things, like uniting the Alethi, then uniting the humans, and then considering uniting the humans with the parsh. And then a subtext of uniting humans and spren. But when he confronts Odium, did anyone else get the impression that he was supposed to be uniting the splinters of Honor, and that's his real task? It's funny but in spite of all the pseudo-references to Shin as pretty much being the only ones without epicanthic folds I could never shake my imagination of the books having Jet Li as Sveth. Started with that whole white clothes and wire fu in TWoK.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:22
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Torrannor posted:Which wouldn't do him much good, since Secret History clearly establishes that you need to have a (living) physical body to take up a shard. Nah, Kelsier held Preservation for a bit thanks to the sphere, yet he was definitely dead. Ruins words were: "Look at you, Kelsier! You haven’t form or shape. You’re not alive, you’re an idea. A memory of a man holding the power will never be as potent as a real one with ties to all three Realms.”" A body isn't required, but ties and Connection is the key. Dalinar is a bondsmith and in fairly certain the power of Connection would persist even were he to be recently dead.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:37
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This was fun (very Oathbringer spoiler-y)
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Nov 22, 2017 18:41
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:This was fun What does that imagine mean
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Nov 22, 2017 20:08
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Evil Fluffy posted:We also know (via WoB?) that Odium fears Harmony and is making plans for trying to deal with him since he can't directly fight Harmony because he'd lose in a contest of power. If something happens that causes them to actually face off I imagine Odium's going to try and rely on making Harmony's opposing powers weaken or destroy him. A steelpushing skimming twinborn Windrunner is essentially an F16
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Nov 22, 2017 20:09
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RC Cola posted:What does that imagine mean Confirms that Renarin's doing some voidbinding - probably the crazy version of seeing the future we see at the end through his perspective is whatever the voidbinding version of Illumination is, since his healing powers seem very normal
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Nov 22, 2017 20:18
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ekeog posted:Confirms that Renarin's doing some voidbinding - probably the crazy version of seeing the future we see at the end through his perspective is whatever the voidbinding version of Illumination is, since his healing powers seem very normal So it's A good surge and a bad surge? Does this mean we will get 19 orders?
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Nov 22, 2017 20:21
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Kaladin is a natural windrunner but ho boy, his intensity is going to make him a great voidbinder
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Nov 22, 2017 20:24
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RC Cola posted:So it's A good surge and a bad surge? Does this mean we will get 19 orders? seems like people on 17th shard think that the (consensual?) 'corruption' of his spren by sja-anat gives him just the one bad surge, whereas a true voidspren would give him two bad ones. it's pretty confusing right now that Glys is corrupted because he seems like a nice, friendly fellow when we hear him talk in Renarin's head, and he's definitely giving our boy the ability to happily go heal a ton of poor people. presumably this has something to do with Sja-Anat trying to turn good
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Nov 22, 2017 20:42
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...actually, now that I think about it I need to reread to see if we ever actually see Renarin absorb/glow/use stormlight. It's entirely possible that it was just assumed.
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Nov 22, 2017 20:46
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OAquinas posted:...actually, now that I think about it I need to reread to see if we ever actually see Renarin absorb/glow/use stormlight. this definitely happens when he is fighting the thunderclast and getting splatted and healing constantly
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Nov 22, 2017 20:50
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one prevailing theory is that voidbinding and the unmade are no more "evil" than hemalurgy. Voidbinding is a tool, and the Unmade are soulstuff that's been broken specifically to facilitate Odium's goals
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Nov 22, 2017 20:54
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