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I forget when it happened in the episode, but my mind flashback to the end of the Family Guy episode where Stewie kills Lois. At the end of that episode, it was revealed to all be a simulation. Stewie and Brian got into an argument over whether or not the audience would feel that it was a cop out. Considering he makes that show as well and considering he very strongly argued that an interesting story is all that matters, I figured out where this was heading.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:38
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VivaLa Eeveelution posted:It was around the point where I was fistbumping the air when circumcision got rightfully trashed that I thought, "...yeah, they don't got this." Speaking of, does this mean Klyden is 75 years old? Or is that "only once every 75 years" bullshit?
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Nov 20, 2017 07:04
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Kazy posted:Speaking of, does this mean Klyden is 75 years old? Or is that "only once every 75 years" bullshit? It's probably something some politician said to justify suppressing any females that show up. Then doctors don't bother to keep any stats on how many babies are actually born female so no one ever notices there are more than they realize.
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Nov 20, 2017 07:17
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Or maybe the Moclan year is like a week and a half Earth time.
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Nov 20, 2017 07:23
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Watch the Google talk video linked above. it's got some good insight into how the show happened. "aggressive casualization of life on a space ship" Yeah. That's exactly what they're doing and it's working. Oooh ! I'm re-watching Firestorm. Right at the beginning where Alara freezes when faced with the fire in Engineering... the trapped crewman is probably killed by the second piece of wreckage that falls on him (the doctor does say the first piece that pinned him probably did too much damage), and if Alara hadn't been frozen, it would have hit her while she was trying to rescue the doomed trapped person. That's classic Survivor Syndrome right there; good, subtle writing. Other notes: In the back of the funeral formation, the last two rows are all blueshirts. So the command path people aren't just the senior officers, if that's what blue means. The doctor's weird smile was at least partly makeup. It is still Joker as all hell.
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Nov 20, 2017 08:15
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Mister Kingdom posted:That's the worst kind! A clown, i'm out, seeya next week Orville Look forward to the rundown of how it raped someone.
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Nov 20, 2017 09:05
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I'm not really sure why, but my year-and-a-half old daughter, who mostly ignores anything on TV because she'd rather go play, is incredibly interested and engaged in The Orville.
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Nov 20, 2017 09:48
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Rocksicles posted:A clown, i'm out, seeya next week Orville It's not the rapey kind of clown... (EDIT:  I guess if you're the kind of person who gets scared of simple things like circus clowns.)...It's the eldritch kind! 
8one6 fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 10:06
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8one6 posted:It's not the rapey kind of clown... Error 404: Does not compute.
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Nov 20, 2017 10:27
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The first time the clown showed up, it looked differently and in IMO more disconcerting.
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Nov 20, 2017 12:24
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So the thing about smart TV nowadays is that it needs to subvert expectations in order to be good. At the very least this is true for dramas and comedies, because drama requires tension (which cannot be built if the viewer is constantly correctly guessing what happens next) and comedy is at its base level human subversion. So, take The Orville. You've got an episode where the captain thanks "Doctor Park" for his co-opting of pheromones to make peace among two races despite this Doctor Park being a background character that nobody really paid attention to up until this episode. The very next episode starts with an unknown background actor's death, followed up by Doctor Park. When Doctor Park dies, a series of things run through the mind of an analytical watcher. "Oh, huh, I didn't even know that guy until the last episode and I had wondered why they singled him out and gave him a name. I guess it was so that the impact of his death in this, the next episode, would actually mean something. Gosh, I'm actually feeling tension now that they're willing to kill him off! Oh well, was nice knowing you Doctor Park!" After a few beats we see Malloy get gobbled up by a giant spider. The first thought of the analytical viewer is "okay, he isn't actually dead" with the second thought being "either that spider ate him whole and he's gonna get pooped/puked/blown out of it or this is a holodeck/alternate-reality episode." At this point, though, the tension already hit where it needed to be. There's no reason for a character death to matter here, it's actually the intention of the show to relieve tension and get the viewer thinking about which scenario Alara has been put in. It's giving the viewer a chance to refine what could have possibly been an earlier guess (for those who were like "yep, clown? holodeck) because this show is actually smarter than it looks. It's playing to the analytical viewer. It practically becomes a game. This is why I've been saying all season that this show never quite does what you expect; the writers/editors know what you're going to expect and are actively trying to make something else happen. And what happens? Turns out Alara forced herself to partake in the trials of the holodeck in order to face her fears. Yet, even after the show has told us this, there's still one thing that keeps the drama there: The fact that they try to stop the simulation, which is actually harming her physically (and although there has been no mention of her turning safeguards off, there's never been a mention of Orville's holodeck having proper safety procedures in place, either) but can't do it due to her override. Now, whether that kind of drama works on you kinda boils past the analytical portion of viewership since the analysts will know any real danger to her doesn't matter because this is an episodic show, not a serial, but it will still work for the non-analytical viewer and they'll still get the dramatic jollies of worrying about her being harmed. Am I over-analyzing this show? Yes. Do I still think it's important to do? Absolutely. Not only does the writing on this show subvert expectations but the show as a whole is still subverting my expectations of where Seth MacFarlane could take it. The Orville flew past my "guilty pleasure" threshold, past my "decent television" threshold, and is now bumping up against my "this is actually smart television" threshold. There's still plenty to nitpick and roll my eyes at which should be done better (and at this point suspect it all will be with Season 2) but the proof is there that they can reach an extremely high potential they've set for themselves. Combat Pretzel posted:The first time the clown showed up, it looked differently and in IMO more disconcerting.  Man, gif really can't handle those colors.. Yeah it kinda depends on if you think monster clowns are scarier than regular clowns or not. Upon watching this specific scene again, I like how the clown just slowly leans forward before breaking into a sprint at Alara. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 12:31
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So is Isaac an actual made-out-of metal robot? Or an actual species? He talks about a homeworld and stuff as if he was a living thing, but then also is a loving robot.
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Nov 20, 2017 12:34
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drunken officeparty posted:So is Isaac an actual made-out-of metal robot? Or an actual species? He talks about a homeworld and stuff as if he was a living thing, but then also is a loving robot.
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Nov 20, 2017 12:41
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DaveKap posted:So the thing about smart TV nowadays is that it needs to subvert expectations in order to be good. At the very least this is true for dramas and comedies, because.... Can't spell analyze without anal.
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Nov 20, 2017 12:46
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drunken officeparty posted:So is Isaac an actual made-out-of metal robot? Or an actual species? He talks about a homeworld and stuff as if he was a living thing, but then also is a loving robot. Why can't a robot be a living thing
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Nov 20, 2017 13:11
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I just want to comment that whoever is inside the Isaac suit does a great job of emoting without any real facial features whatsoever.
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Nov 20, 2017 13:33
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Iron Crowned posted:I just want to comment that whoever is inside the Isaac suit does a great job of emoting without any real facial features whatsoever. Thank ancient Greece and the decision to you use mask acting. Our reverence for their culture has led to us adopting that and making a lot of techniques and even making it a required part of learning in many schools. Thus, acting in a full body suit with none of your features showing is just an extension of that acting exercise.
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Nov 20, 2017 13:44
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One thing about Isaac that surprised me is that based on the pilot, I really expected them to do more with the extremely racist robot angle, at least for comedic effect. For someone convinced of his own utter superiority, he manages to avoid expressing his disdain for the most part. Maybe they decided to tone it down in the actual series.
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Nov 20, 2017 13:47
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There Bias Two posted:One thing about Isaac that surprised me is that based on the pilot, I really expected them to do more with the extremely racist robot angle, at least for comedic effect. For someone convinced of his own utter superiority, he manages to avoid expressing his disdain for the most part. It's probably because Isaac is there to learn about the crew. Can you be racist toward ants when studying an ant colony? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ECoCQfG4C4
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Nov 20, 2017 14:21
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There Bias Two posted:One thing about Isaac that surprised me is that based on the pilot, I really expected them to do more with the extremely racist robot angle, at least for comedic effect. For someone convinced of his own utter superiority, he manages to avoid expressing his disdain for the most part. I think he just isn't autistic and is able to not constantly be going on about it. Every time he's explicitly asked, he does happily tell them that he is a superior being.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:24
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Iron Crowned posted:It's probably because Isaac is there to learn about the crew. Can you be racist toward ants when studying an ant colony? Yes. I absolutely despise the red ones.
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Nov 20, 2017 14:24
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Regy Rusty posted:Why can't a robot be a living thing I...I was not prepared for this line of questioning
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Nov 20, 2017 14:28
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Xalidur posted:I'm not really sure why, but my year-and-a-half old daughter, who mostly ignores anything on TV because she'd rather go play, is incredibly interested and engaged in The Orville. I dunno why that would be. There are other shows that are bright and colorful, other shows with live action aliens, other shows with similar pacing. It could be the transcendental quality of comfiness it takes from TNG.
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Nov 20, 2017 16:37
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Grand Fromage posted:I think he just isn't autistic and is able to not constantly be going on about it. Every time he's explicitly asked, he does happily tell them that he is a superior being. :robotruths:
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Nov 20, 2017 17:35
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Grand Fromage posted:I think he just isn't autistic and is able to not constantly be going on about it. Every time he's explicitly asked, he does happily tell them that he is a superior being. But Isaac has no insecurity. He has no reason to be cruel. And so he doesn't feel racist, when he totally is. (This is putting aside the fact that in this sci fi world he might be factually right about his superiority in many respects and that also makes his attitude less grating.) Isaac is great, and him going evil was one of the only scary bits that worked for me personally. Not the bit where his voice went "creepy" which was a bit too over the top for me, just the part where there's a slow realization that he can't be trusted, but he's still saying everything in his completely matter-of-fact tone. He's been their magic bullet, probably solving half the episodes' problems by himself, so we've come to respect his near godlike capabilities. Slowly realizing he's not working with you anymore is really unsettling. Like that TNG episode where the crew loses time and Data starts lying about stuff. That's good creepy robot man stuff.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:02
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Eiba posted:Like that TNG episode where the crew loses time and Data starts lying about stuff. That's good creepy robot man stuff. The guys at the Greatest Generation Podcast, for a long time were saying that Data was the most dangerous crew member on the Enterprise because of what he had the potential to do.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:12
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Data being assimilated would have been just as compelling a storyline as Picard's or perhaps moreso. How would an android feel toward cybernetic organisms? Would there be some affinity toward them, or maybe extreme dislike.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:16
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Iron Crowned posted:The guys at the Greatest Generation Podcast, for a long time were saying that Data was the most dangerous crew member on the Enterprise because of what he had the potential to do. They obviously forgot about Troi behind the controls
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Nov 20, 2017 20:17
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There Bias Two posted:Data being assimilated would have been just as compelling a storyline as Picard's or perhaps moreso. How would an android feel toward cybernetic organisms? Would there be some affinity toward them, or maybe extreme dislike. It's the strongest thematic element of First Contact.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:22
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Snak posted:It's the strongest thematic element of First Contact. Ah I never watched that one.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:23
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There Bias Two posted:Ah I never watched that one. Yeah, the TNG movies are, not great.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:25
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Davros1 posted:They obviously forgot about Troi behind the controls I'll never get sick of Red Letter Media's take on the TNG movies. There Bias Two posted:One thing about Isaac that surprised me is that based on the pilot, I really expected them to do more with the extremely racist robot angle, at least for comedic effect. For someone convinced of his own utter superiority, he manages to avoid expressing his disdain for the most part.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:25
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The more times you watch TNG, the more unsettling Data becomes.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:26
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PostNouveau posted:The more times you watch TNG, the more unsettling Data becomes.  This poo poo straight up scared me as a kid. 
DaveKap fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 20:28
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DaveKap posted:"They gave the keys to the kid. They gave the keys to the blind guy..." "We threw the keys to anyone wearing red who happened to be passing by..." I loving love the Plinkett Star Trek reviews, they might even be better than his Star Wars ones. E: VVV Some guy named William Shakesman agrees. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 20:31
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WampaLord posted:"We threw the keys to anyone wearing red who happened to be passing by..."
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Nov 20, 2017 20:49
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Iron Crowned posted:The guys at the Greatest Generation Podcast, for a long time were saying that Data was the most dangerous crew member on the Enterprise because of what he had the potential to do. A novel series that details how numerous major events in TNG were puppeteered by Data's subtle machinations, R Daneel Olivaw style, thus loving spoiling all the fun of each episode
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Nov 20, 2017 20:55
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There Bias Two posted:Ah I never watched that one. First Contact is one of my personal top 5 favorite Star Trek episodes in general tbh: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/First_Contact_(episode)
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Nov 20, 2017 20:58
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I honestly felt FC could've done without the whole time travel storyline. Should've just been the crew, trying to repel an invasion of Borg. Make it the ST version of Aliens
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Nov 20, 2017 21:15
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Yeah when Isaac says he's "superior" to everyone else, it scans not as a judgement of morality, but more like his people see it as "We are, just as a matter of fact, better at some things". Like, it doesn't scan as if he would ever say "My people write the best poems in the universe", or "We're the best at jokes" (though Isaac is making a case that he is, at least practical jokes). It seems like maybe his people have achieved a kind of literal perfection, like they have a true Utopian society and have no ego or malice within them. I think it's gonna end up being something like that, when we inevitably see his home planet.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:21
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