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Path of Exile is the Dwarf Fortress of ARPGs. As a newbie it's a whole bunch of impenetrable bullshit that you need several guides to understand, but at some point along the line it clicks and suddenly everything else seems like a pale imitation by comparison. It's definitely not for everyone, but it's free so 
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Nov 20, 2017 19:54
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spudsbuckley posted:That all sounds like a terrible loving chore and a waste of time that could be used to play better games. ARPGs in general sound like a terrible loving chore so I'm not surprised. They're very relaxing games, for the most part.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:16
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Path of exile is fantastic and amazing but yeah there is a pretty steep learning curve and the game is in general very demanding. The reason your first character will fail is because there are so many 'you should have X, Y, and Z by the time you hit level 45 or you're hosed' sort of things. So your first character will inevitably fail to be prepared for the increasing challenge. Thats not a bag thing! Learning is good.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:34
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On the other hand having all those choices effectively permanent is kind of silly when you can sink so much time into a character that ends up feeble.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:57
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I just like that I can be a proper Necromancer with two dozen zombies, skeletons and FLYING FLAMING SKULLS following me around murdering everything, even if it's not a viable end-game build, it's fun.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:01
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poptart_fairy posted:World War 2 media has been ripping itself off for aeons. Or at least 72 years.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:28
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Somfin posted:Two pieces of advice: Beaten, but a friend of mine described it to me very similarly which is uncanny.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:31
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poptart_fairy posted:On the other hand having all those choices effectively permanent is kind of silly when you can sink so much time into a character that ends up feeble. There's pros and cons for both approaches. Personally, I like the idea of having to stick with a build and having it slowly come together over time. Some people want to be able to completely respec whenever, and that's cool too. I wouldn't say either is the definitive way of doing things.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:39
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I quit Path of Exile halfway through act 3 when I got tired of spamming my 1-2 strongest abilities to kill everything that came at me for hours I'll take others' word that it gets good but man do I not have the time to wait for that to happen
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Nov 20, 2017 22:04
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:Maybe, but the alternative is a game where your choices during leveling don't matter, because once you hit endgame you can undo literally everything and turn into a completely different character. A character becoming nonviable because of choices that you did or did not make due to not having any way of knowing better is not good game design. "Must Have" options should never be options in the first place.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:21
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Taerkar posted:A character becoming nonviable because of choices that you did or did not make due to not having any way of knowing better is not good game design. "Must Have" options should never be options in the first place. It's not exactly a 'must have' option. it's more simple things like 'defenses are really important and glass cannon builds don't work' which is what kills 99% of characters. Because picking +damage% is more fun than +hp% but if you don't have enough hp and resists by the time the game gets hard you're a dead man. It's not like there are only a few viable builds, theres more build variety in PoE than any other ARPG I've played by orders of magnitude, but they all hit a few key points because the game is harder at higher difficulty levels than people expect. Agent355 has a new favorite as of 22:29 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 22:27
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Agent355 posted:It's not exactly a 'must have' option. it's more simple things like 'defenses are really important and glass cannon builds don't work' which is what kills 99% of characters. Because picking +damage% is more fun than +hp% but if you don't have enough hp and resists by the time the game gets hard you're a dead man. So picking the options that seem fun leads to non-viable characters? Man, this game is sounding better by the minute.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:32
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Triarii posted:So picking the options that seem fun leads to non-viable characters? Man, this game is sounding better by the minute. You don't understand, there are literally endless boring tank builds to choose from! Each of them "unique" but all of them effectively identical.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:51
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Lol if you think any build in PoE is a tank
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Nov 20, 2017 23:05
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The build that focuses on hitting enemies with a massive axe six times every four frames, the build that focuses on summoning dozens of skulls that resurrect things that they kill as allies, and the build that focuses on damaging both nearby enemies and the character with massive unblockable fire damage, all benefit from putting lots of points into defence so that they don't die fast. Therefore game bad.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:35
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Okay, you like the game, we get it. But, you're not doing a great job convincing anyone to play it; you've made it sound like a boring slog with varying builds of similarity. Maybe next time, don't be such a dick about it.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:42
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Leavemywife posted:Okay, you like the game, we get it. But, you're not doing a great job convincing anyone to play it; you've made it sound like a boring slog with varying builds of similarity. Just because I'm morbidly curious, what's a game you would say has good build variety?
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Nov 20, 2017 23:50
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Taerkar posted:A character becoming nonviable because of choices that you did or did not make due to not having any way of knowing better is not good game design. "Must Have" options should never be options in the first place. Oh no, you only have 49% nature resistance, not 50%. Well, the entire second arc is literally unplayable because everything does nature damage. Have fun restarting the game, again. What's that, put too many points in nature resistance this time and now you can't out DPS the next boss before his unavoidable damage AOE kills you, and getting into the safety bubble puts you into melee range where he also instantly kills you? Too bad, try again next time. Finally got all those pesky resistances down? I sure hope you planned it right and now have enough damage to actually kill anything!
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Nov 20, 2017 23:58
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Build variety sounds great but not if I have build a new character every time I want to try a new one out.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:59
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Somfin posted:Just because I'm morbidly curious, what's a game you would say has good build variety? There was a lot you could do in Diablo 2, across all the classes, there were lots of builds. A fair few could take you through Nightmare, but getting into Hell trimmed it down. Borderlands seemed easy enough to do kind of whatever before you felt any major pressure. As did Diablo 3. Dragon's Dogma, too, I think. Maybe the Mass Effect games, too, at least the first one. Fallout let you go crazy with how you wanted to build yourself. I've heard there's a lot to FF14, too, but I never played it.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:05
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ARPGs as a genre are pretty notoriously poor at build variety when you talk about NG+ equivalents.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:16
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Fallout New Vegas was especially good. Levelling up gives you points that you use to make your skills better, the perk system lets you hone your playstyle further if you like, and the Trait system allows you to put a little spin on the whole process. The starter town, Goodsprings, gives you everything you need to test out your playstyle to see if you like it or not before you’re asked to lock it in.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:17
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Leavemywife posted:There was a lot you could do in Diablo 2, across all the classes, there were lots of builds. A fair few could take you through Nightmare, but getting into Hell trimmed it down. As someone stupid enough to play MMOs, nah, FF14 doesn't have any concept of build like that. Each role has various extra abilities to pick 5 from, but you can and are expected to swap them whenever you're out of combat, as needed for whatever fight you're doing. The original version had something like that, but the original version is taboo, verboten, and extremely bad. Ariong posted:Fallout New Vegas was especially good made this post more efficient
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Nov 21, 2017 00:23
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Leavemywife posted:There was a lot you could do in Diablo 2, across all the classes, there were lots of builds. A fair few could take you through Nightmare, but getting into Hell trimmed it down. Honestly, thats what POE does too. You can pretty much do anything you want from level 1-30, but getting past that requires a more optimized build, and then you hit another breakpoint at 50 where you need to be yet more optimized to get past that point, etc. Its the same in every ARPG - as the game gets harder, your build needs to be more optimized. The difference between POE and something like D3 is D3 has four builds per class that can do the endgame and POE has hundreds. The downside to POE is that you can't respec easily your passive tree, so if you get to level 30 and have massively hosed up your build then you have to restart. If you just chose the wrong skills, or the wrong gear, you can fix that easily. The tree is the only part you can't easily respec. POE is the game for you if "learning the systems" and "arguing about builds" is just as much fun as actually playing the thing.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:23
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Lechtansi posted:The difference between POE and something like D3 is D3 has four builds per class that can do the endgame and POE has hundreds. lmao I loving doubt it
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Nov 21, 2017 00:37
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In either case, I've learned that Path of Exile doesn't sound like something I'd have fun with. In other news, I'm playing Resident Evil 3 again, and I'll be goddamned if it isn't satisfying to blow a group of zombies up with a red barrel.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:39
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RyokoTK posted:lmao I loving doubt it I mean, if you wanna fight this fight i'm not gonna stop you but there are literally 100 different skills (out of 190 possible skills), each with at least 2-3 viable builds (some with upwards of 10), currently capable of beating the end game boss. Lack of build diversity is definitely not a criticism thats super valid about this game.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:05
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There's a few rules that you need to have a successful build, some idea of where your defenses are coming from (energy shield, evasion, armor), a certain HP threashold that will let you live through things you can't avoid, and then you focus your damage on whatever you prefer to use. There are literally hundreds of builds, with no exaggeration, and most of them are not tank builds beyond hitting the base level of tankiness nessecary for survival. It's not exactly a super punishing obtuse requirement, it's just that your average player who knows nothing about the game WILL mess up the first time because they don't ramp their defenses up as the enemies ramp up. It's not rocket science. Now we could argue until we're blue in the face about the value of respecs but my opinion is that they have downsides and shouldn't be considered auto-include because there is something to be said for commitment to a build and the exploration that comes with leveling up and expanding on a single spec instead of jumping around too frequently. PoE is real drat good but it's not for everybody, and thats okay.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:17
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Lechtansi posted:I mean, if you wanna fight this fight i'm not gonna stop you but there are literally 100 different skills (out of 190 possible skills), each with at least 2-3 viable builds (some with upwards of 10), currently capable of beating the end game boss. Lack of build diversity is definitely not a criticism thats super valid about this game. And how many are actually unique and how many are just variations of one another but with different elemental affinity or some other minor tweaks swapped in?
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Nov 21, 2017 02:13
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Pretty unique actually. Like you're free to dislike PoE but disliking it because there aren't enough builds or youb eleive the builds are too similar is actually pretty indicative that you have no idea about the game at all.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:23
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Who What Now posted:And how many are actually unique and how many are just variations of one another but with different elemental affinity or some other minor tweaks swapped in? How different do they need to be for them to be "unique" to you? They're all skills used by clicking on the bad guy, same as the skills in Diablo 2 or Diablo 3 or Grim Dawn or Torchlight 2, or the guns in Borderlands or Payday 2 or Fallout New Vegas.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:25
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Agent355 posted:Pretty unique actually. Like you're free to dislike PoE but disliking it because there aren't enough builds or youb eleive the builds are too similar is actually pretty indicative that you have no idea about the game at all. PoE is like the best game in its genre. It doesn't hold your hand and its not simple or easy, but it is free. Of course its being poo poo on by people who never played it, in the same thread that just spent like ten pages gushing about an anime. Once upon a time, I used to come in here to find new games to play but maybe we should all just shut the gently caress up and wait for bioenchanted to post about some antiquated oddity instead.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:28
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Is PoE at least easy to start playing? If it's free, I'm more willing to try it, but I'm not keen on the idea of being slaughtered early on. And is it a permadeath sort of game? Because permadeath suuuuucks.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:32
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Somfin posted:How different do they need to be for them to be "unique" to you? They're all skills used by clicking on the bad guy, same as the skills in Diablo 2 or Diablo 3 or Grim Dawn or Torchlight 2, or the guns in Borderlands or Payday 2 or Fallout New Vegas. None of those have many unique builds either, so that's not really a great argument.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:33
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Most of those pages were people making GBS threads on the anime game too, actually My current favorite little thing in games is in the new Pokemon I can take a picture with my pokemon when it evolves, it's dumb and cute and I'm all about it 
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Nov 21, 2017 02:33
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does PoE still have genderlocked classes
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Nov 21, 2017 02:34
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Leavemywife posted:Is PoE at least easy to start playing? If it's free, I'm more willing to try it, but I'm not keen on the idea of being slaughtered early on. And is it a permadeath sort of game? Because permadeath suuuuucks. Yes, it's free and very easy to pick up and play through your first playthrough. It only becomes garbage on the harder difficulties. The actual story and initial playthrough are pretty cool and fun.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:34
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Leavemywife posted:Is PoE at least easy to start playing? If it's free, I'm more willing to try it, but I'm not keen on the idea of being slaughtered early on. And is it a permadeath sort of game? Because permadeath suuuuucks. It's easy (and free), and if you don't want to get hosed by making a bad character you can pretty easily just follow somebody else's build. There is a hardcore mode but it suuuuuucks. I love PoE but I long ago stopped trying to make my own characters and just started doing tiny variations on whatever build looked interesting. If you want to make your own you can totally do that, just focus on one main attack sort of button to really hone in on, grab enough hp% nodes and some defensive options and you'll be good enough to make it most of the way. It's really only ultra glass cannons that never took any defenses ever that fail to complete the main game, though maps and the last couple of acts are another story. Nuebot posted:Yes, it's free and very easy to pick up and play through your first playthrough. It only becomes garbage on the harder difficulties. The actual story and initial playthrough are pretty cool and fun. No difficulties anymore! Just 10 acts that you play through once. It's suuuuuper cool. Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:does PoE still have genderlocked classes Yea, i wouldn't expect that to change ever.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:36
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Agent355 posted:Yea, i wouldn't expect that to change ever. great, so i can continue ignoring it, thanks 
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Nov 21, 2017 02:37
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Seems an odd hill to die on but you do you.
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Nov 21, 2017 02:38
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