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Inescapable Duck posted:Generally I think a measure of a setting is whether you can imagine actually living an ordinary life there that doesn't involve being A Protagonist. Similar reason why things like Klingons become weird to examine, because a society needs tailors, farmers, janitors and band managers too. (see the band manager Kzinti character) I think Star Wars as a setting has stuck in people's heads so well because you see more of the mundanities of life; it starts out with an extended sequence of Luke the moisture farmer dealing with technical issues and buying second-hand hardware, one of the most iconic pieces of music is a band playing background music in a bar, and so on. It's a setting where things happen and life goes on when the protagonists and antagonists don't happen to be around. DS9 and Voyager touch on that a bit, actually. Though DS9 more than most since it's set on what is basically a Space Town. But "The House of Quark" Explains that there are farmers, and vintners, and all the other things that make Klingon Life work, but they're not as flashy and glorious as being a warrior.
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Nov 22, 2017 07:22
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In the next-generation era, Star Trek's also moving into post-scarcity, so its societies actually don't need farmers or tailors or janitors anymore. In that context, it makes sense that personal goals are going to move on from "just get by" to more intangible goals. Hell, that's be a fun explanation for why Klingons in next gen are more honor-obsessed than the original series ones - they've got the tech now that conquering for the loot isn't worth it any more, but being remembered as a legendary hero worthy of song is something you can't get out of a replicator...
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Nov 22, 2017 07:43
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Angry Salami posted:In the next-generation era, Star Trek's also moving into post-scarcity, so its societies actually don't need farmers or tailors or janitors anymore. In that context, it makes sense that personal goals are going to move on from "just get by" to more intangible goals. I remember the military history thread discussing how real warrior cultures like the British military or Japanese Samurai would get more and more obsessed with dumb stuff the longer they went without fighting. So after however many decades of Khitomer Accords the Klingon military is promoting people based on who sings loudest or something equally mad.
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Nov 22, 2017 08:01
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wdarkk posted:So after however many decades of Khitomer Accords the Klingon military is promoting people based on who sings loudest or something equally mad. Ability to win promotion-duels with the traditional bat'leth (a weapon designed to be as difficult to use as possible).
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Nov 22, 2017 08:10
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Kurieg posted:DS9 and Voyager touch on that a bit, actually. Though DS9 more than most since it's set on what is basically a Space Town. But "The House of Quark" Explains that there are farmers, and vintners, and all the other things that make Klingon Life work, but they're not as flashy and glorious as being a warrior.  The "so what do we do with ourselves after we are no longer concerned with scraping to survive" issue comes up a lot in science fiction, and I think it's part of why non-flatlanders disdain flatlanders in Known Space. Even if you're living a cushy life on We Made It or Jinx, it's not like you're on a planet where you're catered to by the ecology.
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Nov 22, 2017 09:05
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Nessus posted:Clarissa has the Star Trek problem: At the time that story beat was probably bold and progressive. In hindsight, it looks like a failure to achieve basic adequacy, wrapped in sufficient hemming, hawing, and Oh sure, but there was a blanket statement made.
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Nov 22, 2017 09:10
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to look gross; indeed, to the point where you might fairly go "It would have been better had the topic not been raised at all."
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Inescapable Duck posted:Besides, the proper sci-fi metaphor for capitalism is probably grey goo. I think that Chaos is a good metaphor for capitalism. The regular cultist might not be on the FYGM train, but all the managerial classes will ground as many others as they need to suck up to corporate/Chaos Gods. Unlike Watto, Ferenghi don't look like a Jewish caricature. If I know racist - and I've been to 4chan - a MERCHANT is must have hair and a comically big nose and be always plotting for the downfall of the goym. Like, one fashist Facebook group had a non-ironic complain that Wolfenstein II is leftist Jew propaganda that casts the right in a negative light.
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Nov 22, 2017 09:44
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I think the Ferengi as Jews thing came from a lot of them being played by Jewish actors and the humongous ears as a stand-in for noses. Chaos is absolutely the pyramid scheme from literal hell, though. Occasionally with literal pyramids.
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Nov 22, 2017 10:08
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You don't need to look exactly like the Happy Merchant image to be a Jewish caricature. You've still got the ghoulish looking, personally, greedy, and morally corrupt merchants who walk around like they're hunch backs in TNG. DS9 does some to help clean this up but Ferengi are hella Jew caricatures in behavior and overall appearance in TNG. edit: If you want further elaboration the giant ears give Ferengi a very similar silhouette to Dr Mabuse a Jewish coded villain from Interbellum German films. Additionally their makeup emphasizes sunken eyes which was another part of how Nazis Jew-coded characters. Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 10:26
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Could be, I was never a very deep racist, so I only know the peoplewhistle parts of it.
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Nov 22, 2017 11:39
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Inescapable Duck posted:Chaos is absolutely the pyramid scheme from literal hell, though. Occasionally with literal pyramids. I have a weird theory of Chaos as Colonizing/Colonialist force in the back of my head that I have so far resisted talking about because it's nerdy even for me.
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Nov 22, 2017 14:04
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Night10194 posted:I have a weird theory of Chaos as Colonizing/Colonialist force in the back of my head that I have so far resisted talking about because it's nerdy even for me. Considering what thread you're posting in,  Also, while I'm holding off on reading your Hams stuff since I want to read it all in the archive, I am following the campaign. Everything sounds so cool right now, I hope the new guys manage to capture some of that spirit whenever the new RPG comes out.
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Nov 22, 2017 14:18
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JcDent posted:I think that Chaos is a good metaphor for capitalism. Or, to continue the Star Trek chat, the Borg. They do not see you as an individual or a person, they see you as a resource to be consumed.
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Nov 22, 2017 14:34
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Y'know what never makes sense about the Borg? 'Your cultural distinctiveness will be added to our own.' What culture?
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Nov 22, 2017 14:39
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I thought they just wanted to add your genes and tech, but I've only ever seen 0.5 of an episode of TNG.
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Nov 22, 2017 14:51
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JcDent posted:I thought they just wanted to add your genes and tech, but I've only ever seen 0.5 of an episode of TNG. "We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." So I guess we're both half right.
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Nov 22, 2017 14:53
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Instead of gods, the clerics of Athas worship The Deck of Encounters Set One Part 35: The Deck of Leucrotta, Locathah, and Mammals 207: Silky Poison Uh, so there’s this spy operating in a major city, using a blowgun with poison that has an oddly specific effect: it temporarily makes someone do what he tells them, and then makes them forget what they did when under its effects. The spy uses this on important officials, merchants, and wizards and the like, then sidles up to them in the street and whispers to them to come to him later in the night and tell him their secrets. Fair enough, I guess, but the encounter card is really vague and hard to use. The PCs “come to this place,” meaning the city, but then what? “The PCs may discover his plot at any time or they may become targets themselves if they Iook sufficiently wealthy and influential.” Okay? But if I have a PC hit by a blowgun and then specifically note that someone comes up close to them, the PCs will stop that poo poo cold; there will be no mystery. And what’s this guy’s goal, anyway? It’s just too hard to run off-the-cuff and have it be interesting. Pass. 208: Terror in the Wood Some hunters were going after stags but accidentally followed the tracks of a leucrotta, which killed one and mortally wounded another. When the PCs show up it backs up and hides in the brush, making noises like a wounded human to draw them in… though if they heal the near-dead hunter first, he’ll warn them what’s going on. That hunter, Allan, will give them room and board if they save him. And also a mule. A leucrotta? I read the Monstrous Manual a lot as a kid, but this is the first time that a monster has rung zero bells. Well, this encounter introduces most of the relevant facts: their tracks look like a stag’s, they can imitate sounds, and they want to kill you. Sure, fine. Keep. 209: Hungry Fish A group of 20 locathah have just moved to a new area and are low on food. Noticing the PCs passing by above the water, they’ll go ask for a toll in foodstuffs. They’ll be defensive if attacked, and come back and try to steal food at night if denied. They’ll accept surface-person foods, but will be extra happy and volunteer useful information if the PCs can give them a lot of fish. I like that they could end up enemies, allies, or just a bunch of fish people the PCs don’t care about. Keep. 210: Bitter Lord A carnivorous ape, formerly leader of its pack, was ousted by a younger male and basically banished. It’s very hungry and goes through the PCs’ packs at night. If it’s driven off, it’ll come back and ambush the guard later. If they give it food, it’ll depart, but if they stay in the area it will come back each night for more food. That’s why you don’t feed the wild carnivorous apes! Soon it’ll be harassing tourists for bagels. Anyway, this guy could make a great druid/ranger friend. Keep. 211: The White Stag The PCs catch a glimpse of a white stag. "Rumor has it that anyone who catches a white stag without wounding it will learn great secrets of the forest." A little awkward that the PCs suddenly retroactively have heard those rumors, but we can roll with that. The rumor is half-true: actually, "anyone who can capture a stag without wounding it will learn a great deal about the forest in the process." The magic was inside you all along. The card suggests letting the PCs make checks to pick up hunting-related non-weapon proficiencies if they show they're putting in enough effort. Because players are totally going to have their unskilled PCs try to hunt something that’s famously hard to catch. So... there's nothing magic about this encounter, right? They're just learning proficiencies by doing them? If they can do that here, why can't they just sit down and learn carpentry by trying to build a house? That might be reasonable, but it's not how the AD&D 2E proficiency system is set up. The mechanical stuff is awkward, but I'll keep this encounter as an opportunity for a hunter-type character to earn some fame if they're motivated and lucky. Or for other PCs to murder it with overkill magic like the unsportsmanlike bastards that they are. 212: Innocent 'til Proven Guilty Enemies of the PCs (bandits or whatever) flee into a little town, Loch Delphan. If the PCs come in and let on that they’re looking for these people out of revenge, the villagers will be singularly unhelpful, up to and including forming a mob to back up the enemies. “The enemy has done good things for the village, donating money to charities, helping with the farm labor, and so forth.” 213: Tusks The PCs wander into the territory of a boar family. They’ve eaten berries, overturned logs for insects, etc. If they don’t recognize the signs (probably with the help of a druid or ranger) and get out of there, the four male boars will probably get territorial and attack. This is so boring, no pun intended. I don’t want to waste time having the PCs fight boars. And if they notice the boar tracks and get out of there quickly, that’s boring too. Pass. Dallbun fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 15:15
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Alright, then, the quick of it is that Chaos has colonized the Kurgan, Hung, Tong, and other Peoples of Chaos that have been fully subsumed, and has been trying to do the same to the Norse with only partial success. It exists to invade whatever culture you had before, destroy it, capture it, and completely dominate it by planting favored local agents in positions as potentates (Chaos Lords) with sufficient force to destroy any rebellion within their own people, but no recourse to actually contest with the Chaos Gods if they ever started to feel like going independent. It drains all of the resources of these peoples towards its ends, and warps and exoticizes their cultures for its own amusement and consumption. Any who step out of line, suggest independence, or even try to leave are brutally suppressed. So yeah, Chaos as colonialist force.
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Nov 22, 2017 15:34
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Dallbun posted:208: Terror in the Wood I remember these! ...from Nethack.  But I looked it up for a brief explanation for the thread.Leucrottas are CE monsters that are smart enough to speak - they usually speak Common, even - and can mimic other sounds, though given the examples are women and children I'm not sure if they actually have mimicry abilities or are just decent actors and have higher-pitched voices. They are assholes and enjoy killing things in painful ways because it's fun, and also to get stuff to eat; they are carnivores, and both hunt and eat carrion. Leucrottas of this edition are supposed to be a mix of badger, stag, and lion (the tail), though more modern art changes it somewhat. So yeah, they're another on the list of random chaotic evil rear end in a top hat monsters.  old art  modern Fifth Edition art edit: hosed up the timgs, fixed now Prism fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 15:39
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Night10194 posted:
This also works for Chaos as a take on entropy : simply riding in and slaughtering everyone isn't good enough, everyone must be completely stripped of any and all cultural identity and then sent to die. No social framework must remain. When did chaos hire king Leopold of Belgium as a warmaster?
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Nov 22, 2017 16:09
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Mors Rattus posted:Y'know what never makes sense about the Borg? They have a rich inner world in their hive mind headspace?
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Nov 22, 2017 16:41
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Borg Second Life is just wild as gently caress.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:42
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marshmallow creep posted:They have a rich inner world in their hive mind headspace? That was the plot of the Unimatrix Zero story, yes.  The idea seemed to be that the day to day activities of most Borg aren't the most intellectually demanding given the vast distributed networked intelligence of the Collective, so they do have something akin to shared dream worlds that occupy most of their waking minds.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:46
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If they just sent polite invitations instead of ultimatums, I am sure a lot of people would sign right up.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:59
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marshmallow creep posted:If they just sent polite invitations instead of ultimatums, I am sure a lot of people would sign right up. I bet everyone's spam folder is full of friend requests and phishing from the Borg.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:32
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Borg collective is made up of 90 percent confused grandmas.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:34
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"We are the Borg. We request assistance with logging on to the Facebook. Would you like a Werther's Original?"
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Nov 22, 2017 17:41
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marshmallow creep posted:If they just sent polite invitations instead of ultimatums, I am sure a lot of people would sign right up. This is in fact a thing that has happened in Star Trek, and cases of freed drones re-establishing mini-collectives because they really do like being able to share thoughts and feelings and memories as long as they can preserve their individuality and free will in the bargain.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:50
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I always figured the problem with the Borg is that they do indeed add your brain and cultural concepts to their vast hive mind, it's just immediately lost in the vastness of said hive mind. Assimilated cultures get analysed, codified, filed somewhere and immediately de-prioritised compared with the vast moment-to-moment maintenance load and goal-generation processing of the whole galaxy-spanning collective. It's about as important as the protein patterns on the surface of an individual cell are to a human being.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:26
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WE HAVE SUBSUMED YOUR CULTURE IT'S REALLY LAME WE SHALL NEVER SPEAK OF THIS AGAIN
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Nov 22, 2017 20:03
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The Borg actually have decided some species are unworthy of assimilation, including Voyager's lovely early villains the Kazon.
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Nov 22, 2017 20:04
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Dogar and Kazon are total dicks. Stupid false spider gods.
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Nov 22, 2017 20:06
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Night10194 posted:Dogar and Kazon are total dicks.
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Nov 22, 2017 21:39
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Dallbun posted:207: Silky Poison
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Nov 22, 2017 21:52
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Dallbun posted:212: Innocent 'til Proven Guilty
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Nov 22, 2017 22:18
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Zereth posted:I'd assume that the bandits or whatever fled into this town because they had previously built up a good reputation here, rather than that they did it between entering town and the PCs arriving. Unless the card specifically says the latter? Dang. I can't check it at the moment, but whether or not it states that directly, having it be as you describe is the blindingly obvious fix, and makes the card much more usable, if still slightly niche. Good catch. I'm gonna edit that one before it gets archived.
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Nov 22, 2017 22:32
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Dark Matter: The Killing Jar Act One, Scene One  Act one starts with the heroes heading to Hurricane, West Virginia after the stolen/abandoned car. They have to pick it up at a tow lot and if the alternative hook was used it’ll cost a bit more as they need to bribe the guy at the lot instead of just paying the impound fee. They can get some basic information on where the car was found abandoned if they care to from the guy. They can also try and sneak onto the lot, though it’s actually pretty well secured so this is likely to end up in tears. So let’s get on to the car. The next clue in the chain of the adventure comes in the stuff the car thief left behind, which is a small empty plastic container and their purse. The purse doesn’t actually have much information beyond the initials of the owner (though this is indeed the clue) and an unlabeled keycard that turns out to be useful much later, but what it DOES have is a tracking device that lets one of the major antagonists of the adventure track them if they keep the purse on hand (it’s possible to notice but only if the PCs give the purse a proper search). The plastic container has some dried slime on it that, if you can send it to someone in the know, turns out to contain TPA (i.e. Stranger genetic material). As it happens the passenger of that container is still in the car, hiding in the stuffing of a seat, and it either attacks after the PCs have been driving a bit in the stolen car or immediately if they intend to abandon it for the moment. Say hello to the Tertiary Cnidocyte:  So this little fucker is a gross land jellyfish thing and it’s not really that much of a threat, in theory. It’s bad at hitting and even worse at doing damage, but the nasty thing is that little section on what happens if you take combat damage from it. If you take damage from a Cnidocyte and fail the check after combat you get infected with Clostridium cnidarae, which causes you to slowly transform into a Cnidocyte yourself. As it turns out (though the PCs don’t know this) the person who stole their car was in fact involved in research into these things and was trying to expose their employer’s attempt to weaponize them, but was infected while attempting to escape with evidence. After this little surprise the scene wraps up with the PCs hearing or seeing in the news that a body has been found with monogrammed handkerchiefs that match ones in the purse dead from supposedly pneumonia. The CDC is name-dropped for extra conspiracy poo poo of course. So if any PCs got infected by the Tertiary Cnidocyte, poo poo starts to get icky over time for them, and dealing with any infections does provide a reason to push forward in the adventure since it’s not curable by human science.  So speaking of the CDC, the adventure does note that if any PCs got infected and realize they’ve got creepy micro-jellyfish eating their flesh they might be inclined to contact them. It suggests a couple of ways to deal with that, since the CDC being on the level and getting involved would make the rest of the adventure pretty much not happen. If the PCs keep the bugged purse, the first issue this causes starts to come up now. Every few days the shady gently caress secret agent from the evil corporation will send some thugs to try and deal with the PCs. They’re not a massive threat and they don’t know anything of value (they’re a bunch of random skinheads and Klan types who’ve been fed a story about why the party needs to get got). Scene One does give you a lot of ways to get to the car, but does get a bit railroad-y as far as getting you from the car to the rest of the adventure. In retrospect it probably works better if the detective in the next scene connected the car to the body and the PCs and brings them in on hopes that they can identify the body, but we’ll talk about that more next time, in Scene Two.
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Nov 22, 2017 22:50
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 Starfinger Alien Archive Part 19: "While this is in the interest of improving performance and achieving better results, few humans have the patience and poise to graciously accept an enthusiastic urog’s stream of constant criticism." it's like a metaphor for something here U got two creatures.
 Skeletal Undead (CR 0.5) and Occult Zombie (CR 1) and Cybernetic Zombie (CR 3) So, most undead are just created by other undead, wizards from Eox, or cultists of Urgathoa (queen teen undead edgelord, to remind), though sometimes they're left around to be wandering hazards. Skeletons and occult zombies are made by magic, while cybernetic zombies... cymbies? C'mon, Palladium would've called 'em that, live a little, Paizo! Cymbies are made by implants that keep their hosts running. They're mostly what you'd expect for generic animated dead, zombies are still slower than skeletons because they've got all that flesh weighting them down, I guess. The cymbie gets a lightning pistol, is vulnerable to electricity, and can self-destruct an area radius. There are grafts for each of those three types for those looking to make zombies at home. Make sure you do it in the garage, though. Corpses leak so, so much fluid.  Urog (CR 3) Another creature from another one of They're large "beasts", with darkvision, can sense other creatures touching the ground through "electrolocation", have a slam and shoot lightning, and deal electricity damage instead for regular damage with their slams by spending an RP. There is, surprisingly, a PC version if you want to be a lazy crystalslug. They're large, get electricity resistance, the above electrolocation, low-light vision, telepathic communication, and an extra skill rank per level. However, they get penalties on most social checks and are slower than normal. Pretty interesting that you get to play them as PCs, and it points out they might wander out to do personal observations because do I have to do everything myself?! They're kind of weird, but it's the kind of weird I would have loved to have seen in the corebook instead of just four-armed sand people. Next: V is for Cyberpunks. Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Nov 23, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 23:56
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"Brethesda" makes me think of Bethesda and Skyrim. But it´s neither that nor Fallout, is it?
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Nov 23, 2017 00:19
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I was looking through Amazon when I found this thing: It's almost guaranteed to be d20 shovelware, but I want to ask anyway if anyone's familiar with it and can give me the lowdown, mostly because of the coincidental name with the PBTA Dungeon World.
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Nov 23, 2017 04:49
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