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Zoe looks like a completely OP champ in the hands of somebody who understands the kit.
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Nov 22, 2017 15:55
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he can run very fast into the enemy and use his taunt
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Nov 22, 2017 15:56
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     I'm a lucker
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Nov 22, 2017 16:05
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Sexpansion posted:Zoe looks like a completely OP champ in the hands of somebody who understands the kit. They've already said she's probably due some kind of nerf ("in a month or two") but I hope they don't have to take her apart because I went 1/12/X in my first game with her and it was still the most fun I've ever had champion wise. The kit is just fun.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:05
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Sexpansion posted:Zoe looks like a completely OP champ in the hands of somebody who understands the kit. Orv posted:They've already said she's probably due some kind of nerf ("in a month or two") but I hope they don't have to take her apart because I went 1/12/X in my first game with her and it was still the most fun I've ever had champion wise. The kit is just fun. Sorry but I can definitely see her numbers getting hit soon and possibly further nerfs to her kit once the competitive leagues start up. She's a typical high skill ceiling champ.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:20
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The Q absolutely needs to come down because you can literally, unlike most times when League players use the term, one shot most non-tanks at three items if they have no tank built. I could see the ult cooldown going up and the sleep duration coming down as well. As they stand your ability to set up an incontestable, risk free removal of someone from a fight is way too good.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:26
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Getting multiple TPs within 10 minutes can also make the laning phase pretty ridiculous.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:46
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Mierenneuker posted:Getting multiple TPs within 10 minutes can also make the laning phase pretty ridiculous. Get teleport > go gank > get teleport in bot > teleport back Hello friends!
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Nov 22, 2017 17:06
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Prokhor posted:Get teleport > go gank > get teleport in bot > teleport back I only tried her in practice tool last night, but I got Protobelt off the first creep that dropped a W buble, and I can imagine that being hilarious against a person
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Nov 22, 2017 17:16
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In a week when people get used to her skills she will be unbearable to deal with, playing against her as is it's pretty hard to tell where her Q is coming from since it looks nearly identical to her other spell effects coming out of the fog. Imagine the days of nid mid where a single spear will do 4 digit damage, now imagine nid could setup long range CC for her spears by herself.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:17
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Sexpansion posted:Zoe looks like a completely OP champ in the hands of somebody who understands the kit. I heavily dislike the RNG element of her W when it comes to minion drops. You either get some dogshit you can barely use like Exhaust, or you get an early TP/Heal at 4 minutes and get to automatically win the laning phase.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:22
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You can nail the blue side tribush behind tower from like the middle of the bottom lane with her bubble, the range through terrain is YUUUGE
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Nov 22, 2017 17:25
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Rygar201 posted:You can nail the blue side tribush behind tower from like the middle of the bottom lane with her bubble, the range through terrain is YUUUGE That's what I don't get. She already has all kinds of good poo poo but they add that extra range on her E through terrain. Why does she get that as well?
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Nov 22, 2017 17:51
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So for our Zoe design goals we wanted to introduce another Azir style nightmare to the balance team, and I think we've really succeeded. This week we'll be talking about rune changes...
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Nov 22, 2017 18:01
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duck trucker posted:That's what I don't get. She already has all kinds of good poo poo but they add that extra range on her E through terrain. Why does she get that as well? ganking, roaming
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Nov 22, 2017 18:12
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duck trucker posted:That's what I don't get. She already has all kinds of good poo poo but they add that extra range on her E through terrain. Why does she get that as well? It's Riot's complete and total blindness to see that complexity creep is a thing that actively needs to be managed (shout outs). Reminder that Zoe not only has these weird intuitive bits of her kit she also adds yet another status effect to the game. EDIT: I haven't read that in a while, and the bit about how they can make the game a touch simpler by cleaning up armor/MR/armor pen/Mpen is funnier in light of the lethality changes, which is a thing I'm still not sure I understand in detail. Boxman fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 18:13
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One thing I think riot is worse at than they used to be is making champion kits with emergent complexity rather than hard-coding it in. I think the difference between Irelia Q and Yasuo E is a good demonstration of this - they both achieve the same general effect of high mobility within minion waves but with vastly different amounts of 'rules text'.
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Nov 22, 2017 20:13
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Boxman posted:It's Riot's complete and total blindness to see that complexity creep is a thing that actively needs to be managed (shout outs). Love to click on one of my posts from two years ago and see a missing word in the first paragraph
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Nov 22, 2017 20:39
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kingcobweb posted:Love to click on one of my posts from two years ago and see a missing word in the first paragraph That was a cool and well laid about post though.
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Nov 22, 2017 20:46
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yeah this champ just seems like riot re-treading the same problems that old nidalee had, except also giving her CC to set up her poke. i cant imagine a world where this champ isn't just new yasuo and is nerfed to a ridiculous degree and relies 100% on snowballing her lane to do anything useful by people that have 10000+ games played on the champ.
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Nov 22, 2017 21:00
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Riot made some improvements to the leveling system.
 Now you're guaranteed enough gemstones to buy one of those Hextech skins.....By level 600. source
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Nov 22, 2017 21:06
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Laff
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Nov 22, 2017 21:09
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Hashtag Yoloswag posted:you don't 1v1 (or 2v1) illaoi because she's a heimer-style lane bully. if you opt into a fight against her you've already lost the matchup thebardyspoon posted:Yeah. so I was just overestimating Kleds ability to go all in since that seems to be his gimmick (and it's worked in a lot of other matchups). Her bullying prowess overpowers his fightiness I guess. So basically, against an Illaoi, if I'm winning the lane or keeping it relatively even it's going to be a very boring game essentially? Fair enough, I guess. Might just be my ban from now on. anti-magic posted:It's honestly a waste of a ban, as someone who plays her a lot she feels very weak right now. Just avoid her E and don't get into a duel post-6; as Kled you can actually roam and have CC to do something whereas Illaoi will just push lane and hope people are dumb enough to try and duel her. this is silly. she can be killed at any point - her ult basically forces her to fight in a camille style box without anything preventing you from walking away. if she ever misses her grab, gently caress her up. when she ults, just dont get hit by the tentacles. you can accomplish this with a tiny amount of awareness and walking completely unimpeded to the side. she has no cc except when her grab procs the 2v1 advice has a bit of merit - your jungler is probably too stupid to do the above, so he'll heal her and die
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Nov 23, 2017 00:50
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Boxman posted:It's Riot's complete and total blindness to see that complexity creep is a thing that actively needs to be managed (shout outs). This is a lot of words to say LoL's hero design is lazy and overcomplicated. Riot want to stick to their idea of what the game should be like. This limits their designs and doesn't allow them to add weird skills that "break" existing game mechanics in interesting ways. I'm thinking of Dota heroes like Rubick (his ult copies an enemy's last used skill), Invoker (has 9 different active skills), Meepo (you control 2 to 5 copies of the same champ at the same time, if one of them dies they all die) or Furion (global teleport anywhere in the map on a 20 second cooldown), etc. LoL champs feel more like Pokemon than Dota heroes to me. There's a ton of different flavours to choose but unless you're really deep into it, their differences seem superficial. What I'm trying to get at is that I feel like they often rely on the same handful of skill templates. I mean there's like 9 or 10 different champs that have a skill that's just "press this key to boost your next autoattack and give it a fancy effect" (see: Nasus, Trundle, Garen, Yorick, Shyvana, Mordekaiser, etc). Veigar, Camille, Tresh and Jarvan all do the "trap you in a cage" thing. There's only so many different types of skills you can come up with if you're not willing to do crazy poo poo, and the way Riot differentiates these skills is by adding extra side effects or fancy combo/skill interaction mechanics.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:02
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thats a lot of words to say that you're a dota player
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Nov 23, 2017 01:03
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Verviticus posted:thats a lot of words to say that you're a dota player Hey I still love the game! I just did this earlier today and I was all  :https://gfycat.com/PalatableHeftyAbyssiniangroundhornbill (whoever told me I should try Shyvana was right on the money)
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Nov 23, 2017 01:06
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Hmmm yes, Veigar and J4, two notoriously similar champs.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:09
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Elman posted:This is a lot of words to say LoL's hero design is lazy and overcomplicated. League's design makes more sense than DOTA. All my criticisms are amplified 10x for that game.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:11
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With respect, I don't think you're giving League enough credit.Elman posted:Rubick (his ult copies an enemy's last used skill), They basically just did this sort of thing with Zoe, though it took them a while to do it (but probably no longer than it took DOTA overall) quote:Invoker (has 9 different active skills), Just off the top of my head, Jayce and Nid have six or seven active skills apiece (depending how you count them; for Jayce at least I count his transform because it has a bonus beyond simply changing the rest of the active skills). I don't know if they'll ever do 9 but it's not because they're opposed on principle to shoveling twice the usual number of skills onto a single champ quote:Meepo (you control 2 to 5 copies of the same champ at the same time, if one of them dies they all die) OK, granted, LoL probably won't ever do this given the lack of direct multi-unit control. quote:or Furion (global teleport anywhere in the map on a 20 second cooldown), etc. What's the difference here in your mind between this and, like, TF or TK? Is it the length of the cooldown? The truly global range rather than a large but finite range? Seems like you have to split some hairs to say that League doesn't explore this sort of design space. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Nov 23, 2017 |
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Nov 23, 2017 01:19
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Look, I didn't mean to argue specifics. I just prefer champions that are easy to understand and explain but have abilities that can be used in many different ways (Azir is a good example, I think). I want to read about a new skill and go "oh, that's a cool mechanic that really sets this champ apart!" and not "ok so Ekko has Sivir's shuriken but it slows people and stands still for a little bit before coming back dealing more damage". The differences between say, Kayn's ult and Zed's ult just don't seem big enough to be interesting to me. ...So what I'm saying is I really agree with that article. But I'd rather not have a quote war with the entire thread about it 
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Nov 23, 2017 01:30
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Elman posted:But I'd rather not have a quote war with the entire thread about it Wasn't really trying to Be Right On The Internet, just responding with my own thoughts based on yours
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Nov 23, 2017 01:32
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Elman posted:Look, I didn't mean to argue specifics. I just prefer champions that are easy to understand and explain but have abilities that can be used in many different ways (Azir is a good example, I think). I want to read about a new skill and go "oh, that's a cool mechanic that really sets this champ apart!" and not "ok so Ekko has Sivir's shuriken but it slows people and stands still for a little bit before coming back dealing more damage". The differences between say, Kayn's ult and Zed's ult just don't seem big enough to be interesting to me. I think you're focusing way too much on single abilities for these comparisons and not the champs entire kit and the way their abilities and play style interact. Like yeah, Sivir and Ekko are superficially similar if you just look exclusively at their Q. This ignores the entire rest of their kit and the way their abilities work together, which gives them extremely different play styles and roles in a team.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:39
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Crazy Larry posted:I think you're focusing way too much on single abilities for these comparisons and not the champs entire kit and the way their abilities and play style interact. Like yeah, Sivir and Ekko are superficially similar if you just look exclusively at their Q. This ignores the entire rest of their kit and the way their abilities work together, which gives them extremely different play styles and roles in a team. That's what the guy meant about how league is like Pokémon imo. It's kinda samey until you get extremely into it. I agree that dota is better about making distinct, memorable heroes but I prefer leagues gameplay
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Nov 23, 2017 01:45
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I think Azir might be the only champ that's been made simpler since release - they got rid of both his knockup and his CDR to attack speed conversion thingy
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Nov 23, 2017 02:11
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Tales of Woe posted:I think Azir might be the only champ that's been made simpler since release - they got rid of both his knockup and his CDR to attack speed conversion thingy Jax. They changed his old AP/AD to Health passive and removed his old dodge+stun passive, all of which makes him more readable to his opponent
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Nov 23, 2017 02:19
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Having thematic similarities between different character abilities also makes it less intimidating to jump to a new champion. Like I've not played Nasus before but having spent time in the last week playing Yorick I'm much more likely to try him out next time he's on rotation because of the similar Q.
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Nov 23, 2017 02:22
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Well, you can't get a random champion unless you are missing at least 10 champions. That sucks.
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Nov 23, 2017 02:25
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SlyFrog posted:Well, you can't get a random champion unless you are missing at least 10 champions. That sucks. Also, if one of your 10 missing champs is on sale then it doesn't count and you can't roll a mystery.
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Nov 23, 2017 02:39
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Elman posted:Look, I didn't mean to argue specifics. I just prefer champions that are easy to understand and explain but have abilities that can be used in many different ways (Azir is a good example, I think). I want to read about a new skill and go "oh, that's a cool mechanic that really sets this champ apart!" and not "ok so Ekko has Sivir's shuriken but it slows people and stands still for a little bit before coming back dealing more damage". The differences between say, Kayn's ult and Zed's ult just don't seem big enough to be interesting to me. Nah, I'm not gonna get into a dumb debate. I just don't like it when someone responds to a piece of my writing by saying that I think League's hero design is lazy. I don't think that! You're agreeing with a point I'm not making! I do think League's designs are frequently overcomplicated. That part is true. And your point about abilities that can be used in many different ways is true (Ziggs W is a good example, especially before they added the tower-blowing-up thing).
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Nov 23, 2017 02:42
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i agree with king cobwebs conclusion that janna players are inferior
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Nov 23, 2017 02:56
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