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The priest class looks to be in need of extra attention, but I'm sure that's something they'll work on during the beta. No need to rush to announce extra plans.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:07
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Fighter is kind of weird conceptually in that - the paladin is also a fighter, so is the barbarian, and if you wanna stretch it so is a wizard - they all fight, just employing different methods. And unfortunately with this kind of setup the fighter's methods are usually the most mundane / boring of the lot. And some people actually like that about them, so turning fighters into animes kind of goes against their idea of just a common non-fancy soldier dude.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:08
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I think I'd like the idea of passive skills specialised to 2-3 classes each. Fighter barb and paladin get x passives, paladin priest get y, priest wizard cipher get z etc That way they can be more specialized and useful to each group. I'm very excited to see how you do shared abilities in the xml, I tried a few things and couldn't get cross class abilities to work properly.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:10
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Yeah fighters are my favorite class because I tend to like workabout stuff in RPGs more than fancy wizarding. Stalker/Devoted is looking to be my dream class matchup for Deadfire. Lots of passive stat-padding, get a cool dog friend, good at hitting guys with a saber. Also it would be cool if fighters got a bit more distinction by having a few more on-disengagement passives. Maybe a hobble on level one, one with more damage etc. leading up to the prone attack. That seems like a thing they should be more uniquely good at. Especially with monsters seemingly pretty happy to disengage and run after casters to interrupt them. Anno fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 17:13
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rope kid posted:I will say that the desire to take everything cool away from fighters is strong even among some of our devs. I remember designing Fearless and Triggered Immunity for Pillars 1 and someone said, "Shouldn't the paladin get Fearless?" I was like, holy poo poo, paladins are getting the ability to pulse holy blue flame can fighters just not be affected by fear effects? It bothers me more than it should that knocking someone off their feet doesn't do any damage to them. To be properly immersive, Knock Down should randomly proc a manslaughter charge if used in a bar fight.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:22
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One question just behind the design process because I'm curious: you've grouped certain afflictions into the same class and tiered them (eg hobbled ->immobilized -> paralyzed) and set it so that having resistance to Afflictions automatically downgrades them one tier. I know you removed grazes in part because of the general mushiness with damage calculations and because they made hard CC so good (basically unless you just cleanly miss, you're getting some effect), but why did you decide against having grazing/critting just shifting the scale? Or had you already decided to remove grazes in general?
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Nov 22, 2017 17:23
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Avalerion posted:Fighter is kind of weird conceptually in that - the paladin is also a fighter, so is the barbarian, and if you wanna stretch it so is a wizard - they all fight, just employing different methods. And unfortunately with this kind of setup the fighter's methods are usually the most mundane / boring of the lot. And some people actually like that about them, so turning fighters into animes kind of goes against their idea of just a common non-fancy soldier dude. The irony is that the Fighter must be this way Because Tradition, while vanished few players whose instincts are formed with that assumption realize that Fighter was one of the classes defined by not having to have rolled high specific stats to meet class requirements. Also you might well be rerolling multiple times in one game night. So when you lucked out with great Charisma rolls, you got to be a paladin and be like a fighter but better. Or your luck may have come in the form of high strength in which case the fighter class could shine. And so forth. e: I thought that Pillars 1 did a pretty good job at making fighters be the "good at the basics" class overall, though. It turns out that a large bonus to accuracy or defenses once a fight is a really good and useful thing. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 17:33
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I like where Fighters are at in Poe1. They've got loads of good passives to take, but they have just enough fun active abilities to remain interesting while being a nice low maintenance character that owns. They also get my favorite high level ability (charge). A charging Fighter with two Bittercuts is the poo poo.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:43
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rope kid posted:Yeah, I don't want to remove anything from the way fighters are currently set up. The fact is that most of the passives in the fighter tree were classless Talents in Pillars 1, things like fighting styles that would have been proficiencies in 2nd Ed. or feats in 3E. You can currently build a fighter to take only actives from 1st-20th level, only passives from 2nd-20th level, or any mix between. If we actually pulled those passives from the fighter tree, you'd more or less be forced to build an active fighter -- unless we designed ~9 new fighter-specific passives to replace them. Something I wasn't clear on from your tweets, is the logic that fighters can take the passives twice, once though the proficiency system and once through abilities? So you could get, say, +40% attack speed while dual wielding. Or is it that they can get them through either currency, but only once? Avalerion posted:And some people actually like that about them, so turning fighters into animes kind of goes against their idea of just a common non-fancy soldier dude. You're 100% right. In PoE, paladins and barbarians are just the anime version of fighters. They're even powered by the burning fury of their souls. Whereas Eder's just this chill dude who smokes weed. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 17:53
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I like the return of the open talents just because it'll let you do things like "melee ranger" or "dual-weilding cipher" without feeling compelled to dual-class into the relevant class for the talent you'd need. That said if Ropekid wants to design nine new fighter talents I'm not gonna think that's a bad thing At this point I'm very happy with the direction the beta is heading in and just waiting for the next patch. There's a fair bit of work to be done still but it's of the nitty-gritty-details variety now -- stuff like tweaking the moon godlike talent so it scales a bit, or going through all the spells and powers and making sure they have cast times proportional to their durations, etc. The hit-miss rate is probably gonna need tweaking some too just to adjust for the lack of grazes.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:06
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My two latest player builds have been quite fun. I went with a ranger/chanter build that was all about swift reloading of rifles and that was great at taking out most things, but fell over from stiff breezes. My other one was a druid (shifter spec) fighter combo that tore stuff up super quick but wasn't much of a caster. However, still a big fan of Wizard and Cypher for my main game even if it might not be an optimal build, if only because I like them thematically.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:17
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Ginette Reno posted:I like where Fighters are at in Poe1. They've got loads of good passives to take, but they have just enough fun active abilities to remain interesting while being a nice low maintenance character that owns. Friend, allow me to tell you about Barbarians and Dragon Leap. I do like that you get two uses of Charge though, in case you need to get back to deal with a threat to your own squishes.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:20
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The soulbound pirate hat added to PoE1 in the Deadfire pack has friendly fire which is probably not intended. One of the unlocked abilities is 10% chance to cast Confuse when hit, which also applies to friendly spell casts so your priest or wizard casting heals/buffs on you has a chance to Confuse them.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:22
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The arbalest also apparently fires more slowly as you level up instead of more quickly.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:27
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Pellisworth posted:The soulbound pirate hat added to PoE1 in the Deadfire pack has friendly fire which is probably not intended. One of the unlocked abilities is 10% chance to cast Confuse when hit, which also applies to friendly spell casts so your priest or wizard casting heals/buffs on you has a chance to Confuse them. This loves to restart combat with Consecrated Ground and Sacred Immolation.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:46
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CottonWolf posted:Something I wasn't clear on from your tweets, is the logic that fighters can take the passives twice, once though the proficiency system and once through abilities? So you could get, say, +40% attack speed while dual wielding. Or is it that they can get them through either currency, but only once?
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Nov 22, 2017 18:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I like the return of the open talents just because it'll let you do things like "melee ranger" or "dual-weilding cipher" without feeling compelled to dual-class into the relevant class for the talent you'd need. That said if Ropekid wants to design nine new fighter talents I'm not gonna think that's a bad thing
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Nov 22, 2017 18:57
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Priest chat: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/933394936837259264
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Nov 22, 2017 19:05
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ooooh good change I was thinking it seemed like the priests of Wael were the best choice because they seemed to lose the least
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Nov 22, 2017 19:08
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Still wondering if Priests will get some kind of passive abilities, but it sounds like a good chance and a move in the right direction. Will be very curious to see how the next beta build is played and how people feel about the overall system (balance will obviously still be screwed up, but one thing at a time).
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Nov 22, 2017 19:11
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Oh, huh. I looked and Knock Down is actually a full attack. Uh, good, then.
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Nov 22, 2017 19:11
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Still wondering if Priests will get some kind of passive abilities, but it sounds like a good chance and a move in the right direction. Will be very curious to see how the next beta build is played and how people feel about the overall system (balance will obviously still be screwed up, but one thing at a time). My prediction is people start really, really, really bitching about cast times and spell miss rates and the like. It's the next lowest hanging fruit. hell, I'll get the part started: Ciphers [img-crying-baby-gif] Ciphers seem like they're in a weird-rear end place right now because from what I can tell multi-class ciphers gain focus like crazy and are really effective right now but single-class ciphers have some real issues with focus gain and power miss rates. Like, in a typical encounter, a priest or wizard might get to dump their whole spell book, but a cipher will likely only cast once or twice, just due to focus gain limitations. I don't envy the guy who has to go through each spell and power individually and rebalance them all. Gonna be a huge pain. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 19:18
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Pellisworth posted:The soulbound pirate hat added to PoE1 in the Deadfire pack has friendly fire which is probably not intended. One of the unlocked abilities is 10% chance to cast Confuse when hit, which also applies to friendly spell casts so your priest or wizard casting heals/buffs on you has a chance to Confuse them. oh my god what, this why Iconic Projection started hurting my party out of nowhere after it hit my Paladin obsidian please
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Nov 22, 2017 19:27
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I wanna mess around with a musclewizard in the beta, whats a good place to start looking at multiclass synergies? I was thinking either monk or fighter?
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Nov 22, 2017 20:18
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I can't find stats on the new soulbound items, I'd like to know what binding them to different classes does.
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Nov 22, 2017 20:18
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bongwizzard posted:I wanna mess around with a musclewizard in the beta, whats a good place to start looking at multiclass synergies? I was thinking either monk or fighter? I saw some folks posting that Transmuter Ogre wizard builds had really good synergy with barbarians etc. Apparently the ogre's "clubs" don't count as club proficiency though.
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Nov 22, 2017 21:12
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Hodgepodge posted:This is a minor thing, and it didn't actually occur to me until hours later, but I just actually went back to the Valian Embassy after completing the trade agreement for the first time (it always slipped my mind in other playthroughs) and saw Pallengina get fired. She didn't get fired because she cost people money or diplomacy though. She got fired because she disobeyed orders. That's the plotline for Pallegina. It's not about what's correct. And in fact, Pallegina is wrong unless you go with Galawain's solution to all these souls - the Dyrwood doesn't get over this, and there are no consequences for the republics for stealing their trade. Yes, life gets way shittier for the Dyrwood, but the republics don't care, smash capitalism. But, again, it's not about whether she's right or wrong - it's about whether or not she follows orders, because as much as she loves the republics and the brotherhood, she's still, in the end, a soldier, and she's still expected to follow her goddamn orders. There's a chain of command here, and she's expected to follow it. She's not being fired. She's being given a dishonorable discharge. CottonWolf posted:For those of us who don't know much about DnD, what was wrong with 5th ed Fighters? Over the course of the 5e playtest, fighters got increasingly less interesting as their various active abilities were either given to other classes, or were taken out entirely. What's left is, well, pretty reminiscent of the 3e fighter - which is to say, a class with no active abilities at all, who's only action boils down to "I move to the enemy and attack" forever. I could continue to pontificate about this, but it's easier just to say "5e is an incredibly bad game" and leave it there.
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Nov 22, 2017 22:25
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I like the return of the open talents just because it'll let you do things like "melee ranger" or "dual-weilding cipher" without feeling compelled to dual-class into the relevant class for the talent you'd need. That said if Ropekid wants to design nine new fighter talents I'm not gonna think that's a bad thing
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Nov 22, 2017 22:42
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:I can't find stats on the new soulbound items, I'd like to know what binding them to different classes does. The PoE1 ones? https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94336-deadfire-dlc-items-from-v307/ third post.
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Nov 22, 2017 22:53
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I never knew you could go back to the embassy after Pallegina's quest and get new dialogue. I'm going to take all my characters back there with her as soon as possible. Hey, do you still get dialogue if she does the agreement like she was supposed to?
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Nov 22, 2017 22:58
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Ravenfood posted:You can dualwield as a cipher no problem, it's just that some very specific classes can do it better than you as part of their class identity. I'm fine with that, though like you said, melee ranger now really requires multiclassing. Whether or not that's a bad thing, I don't know, but I imagine it's a lot easier to balance classes into very specific niches so that when you multiclass, you don't have to worry about whether a melee-spec'd pure ranger is better than a multiclass ranger and whichever melee class you picked. Yeah, but (again for example) a cipher has to be actually good at using some kind of weapon in order to generate focus to cast. They don't necessarily have to be "the best" but they need to be playing in the same ballpark at least, or else they'll get dramatically outclassed by enemy defenses (which have been tuned to face the specialist classes) and left unable to act. (This is, parenthetically, part of why the grazing changes hurt ciphers so much; ciphers have to successfully hit *twice* at minimum for each power they use, once to gain the focus and then again on the cast). Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 23:00
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Avalerion posted:The PoE1 ones? https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94336-deadfire-dlc-items-from-v307/ third post. Ah, thanks a ton!
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Nov 22, 2017 23:46
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ProfessorCirno posted:I could continue to pontificate about this, but it's easier just to say "5e is an incredibly bad game" and leave it there. I was bitching about there not being enough cool D&D video games out there these days, but given how awful 5e is, maybe that's a blessing in disguise.
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Nov 22, 2017 23:48
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When I heard about the fact that cross-classes talents like two-handed or two weapon styles were exclusive to the Fighter, I thought "What is this poo poo!?!". But thinking it over, I realized that, well, that is their thing : weapon mastery, and maybe that should include an exclusivity on such talents.
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Nov 22, 2017 23:48
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please fix the comically broken/bugged items added to PoE1 in the Deadfire Pack sincerely, a dude who is very much looking forward to PoE2 and wants to do another complete playthrough of PoE1 and expansions edit: specifically, the Company Captain's Hat which has weird friendly-fire issues with its 10% confuse on hit and One-Eyed Molina's Gold-Fingered Spike-Flinger (arbalest) which I haven't personally had a chance to evaluate but from other posts seems to actually slow attack/reload speed rather than increasing it Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Nov 23, 2017 |
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Nov 23, 2017 00:42
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The concept of the Black Jacket really appeals to me but I'm not in the backer beta so I don't know what they do yet. Normal dude with a lot of weapons and wondrous items to be effective in most situations is one of my favorite archetypes. But, what are their actual abilities?
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Nov 23, 2017 01:01
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AngryBooch posted:The concept of the Black Jacket really appeals to me but I'm not in the backer beta so I don't know what they do yet. Normal dude with a lot of weapons and wondrous items to be effective in most situations is one of my favorite archetypes. But, what are their actual abilities? They start with an extra weapon set slot, one more weapon proficiency, and have reduced recovery penalty when switching weapons. They lose constant recovery in exchange. Otherwise, they get the same abilities as any other Fighter. Feels like an ok concept with the addition of Penetration and maybe having to have multiple weapons sets to deal with different enemies. Not sure how that'll hold up with the Pen changes.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:06
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Pellisworth posted:please fix the comically broken/bugged items added to PoE1 in the Deadfire Pack If they don't patch it it'll at least force you to change up your play style a bit. If you want to heal whoever is wearing the hat your priest had better be immune to mind control! Can you confuse yourself with healing potions, or do they not count as being "hit"?
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Nov 23, 2017 01:15
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AngryBooch posted:The concept of the Black Jacket really appeals to me but I'm not in the backer beta so I don't know what they do yet. Normal dude with a lot of weapons and wondrous items to be effective in most situations is one of my favorite archetypes. But, what are their actual abilities? The beta is sorely lacking in terms of unique or enchanted weapons, so they're far from their full potential.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:32
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I saw some folks posting that Transmuter Ogre wizard builds had really good synergy with barbarians etc. Apparently the ogre's "clubs" don't count as club proficiency though. That is what I am going to try, but man, Parasitic Staff kinda sucks now, right? Less damage, no Draining, I don't know why you would pick it over like a normal staff. I cannot stress how much I love the chargen in this thing, there are so many loving choices, I am getting more fun out of it then like three quarters of the actual games I own.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:41
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