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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

sticklefifer posted:

Something they haven't really touched upon in this show is the Conservative "Satanic Panic" craze in the 80s where everything dark or weird or offbeat was seen by society as "in league with Satan". It's a surprising omission for such a dark show set in that specific time. D&D in particular was accused of it all the time, and the earliest scenes in the show were the boys playing it - only after which the things they're talking about manifested in reality. Of course it's explained via the lab experiments going too far, but I wonder if there's also an intentional tongue-in-cheek undertone of the show that the kids' "Satanic D&D playing" caused a portal to Hell to open and now evil monsters are pouring out and/or possessing children. Has that idea ever been addressed by the showrunners? I'm almost surprised there isn't a religious character addressing that angle in the show (and probably played by Beth Grant).

Tom Hanks Season 3 role confirmed.

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Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005

I think it's the opposite of that. To start, the show's more uplifting than dark in the end. More on point, the D&D stuff plays the same role in the story that the Magic the Gathering (or maybe it was D&D) clone/stand-in did in the movie Michael Clayton: its way of understanding the universe, including a seemingly childlike good vs. evil view of morality, is shown to be superior to that of adults who act like they are knowing and sophisticated but are really just corrupt. And the hole in the world in ST is completely opened up by human ambition.

Anyway, I've noticed for a while that Michael Clayton makes a good companion piece to Stranger Things if you haven't seen the movie. It has no actual fantasy (or maybe a teensy bit of it if you interpret it that way), but it's got the same reverence for fantasy stories in-universe. I just can't see ST as having a hidden anti-D&D slant.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

punk rebel ecks posted:

Yeah I rewatched the scene. I can definitely see him being an abuser.
He called his son a human being and hit him.

*is extremely abusive to his son*

Goons: I think maybe this guy might be abusive?

There's no need to speculate. We literally saw him being an abusive parent.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

business hammocks posted:

Tom Hanks Season 3 role confirmed.

Tom hanks reprising his role in Mazes and monsters in a darkest dungeon setting would own

PriorMarcus
Oct 17, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

I liked every episode of this. Even 7. It's Jane's Degobah.

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012
Lipstick Apathy
Just finished and it was still fun and all but could have been so much more. I'm sure my complaints are not covering any new ground, but there needed to be an ominous looming threat and mystery like the first season had.

Instead there is no shadow government, inexplicably they are good guys that we trust now. There is no horror factor because the shadow mind thing is more of a vague concept than an actual threat to anyone but Will's health. The demogorgon monster's creepiness factor was already completely gone by the finale of season one so having literally the only other real threat in the season be dozens of mini demogorgons and some sentient vines is not even remotely creepy or interesting.

They could do so much more with the upside down and what comes out of it to our dimension but still all we know is it's a creepy, mostly empty mirror of our world that the smoke being uses, inhabited by demodogs and nothing else.

The introduction of Max and Billy is weird, I was sure we were meant to think they were villains or spies and I'm not sure if that was intentional since their big reveal is merely that they are step siblings and he's a dick.

It was still a fun watch and all but definitely nowhere near as tight as season one and they leaned too hard on trying to please all the fan obsessions.

SweetMercifulCrap! fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Nov 21, 2017

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
The only time the demogorgans(or demadogs or whatever) were scary was when they ate Sean Astin, but that's only because he was such perfect casting for someone who you want to root for and feel bad for.

I just finished up a few days ago and I agree that Season 2 was solidly entertaining but underwhelming in the end. I wish they'd have a bit more nerve to just divert completely from the Upside Down story, but the time to do that was this season, it seems unlikely that they would now that they've spent another whole season on it.

But who wouldn't want to see Eleven and the gang handle some other sort of extraordinary threat? With Eleven's powers it would be pretty easy to justify why these kids keep running across weird poo poo without having to directly tie everything to the Upside Down.

That being said, Eleven's showdown with the gigantic shadow monster was badass.

NothingMatters
Nov 17, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
After finishing this with my wife series 2 has an overall sense of writers having produced a unexpected hit being too afraid to try anything new interesting or dangerous and phoning it in and playing safe.

It pisses me off because there's so much wasted potential here.

You would think that through the season at some point they would up the ante - and it seems like they get very close to doing it when the laboratory is invaded and everyone killed

But they close the potential of that within a couple of episodes and wave away the threat of the upside-down oh-so-conveniently. Literally one man and a psychic child can run through a monster infested laboratory, take on a group of monsters and close a chasm a entire division of men with assault rifles could not. That's just farcical.

Even more farcical is the fact you have all these monsters and none of them actually attack the town they just sit in the lab. Weak.

There was no big show-down moment like in series 1. The ending battle if you could call it a battle was weak. There was little to no threat to anyone at any point. And nobody of importance died. You really needed someone to die if you were going to make these monsters as weak as they were.

A much more interesting story would have involved Will being taken over by his host a la exorcist, and becoming a mastermind controller of all these monsters, and ending up killing someone. And I think at some point that may have been in the original script. But the popularity of the show and it's characters weakened their ability to actually do anything interesting.

Of course we all know Episode 7 is weak. But the biggest issue with it is does not add anything to the overall plot. To bring in that "Sister" character there has to be a reason to do so. Ideally she should be joining forces with 11 to take on the monsters from the other side - and given her arc, show the resolve needed to stop it in a more brutal way than 11 would.

Just disappointment from the last 3 episodes all around for me.

NothingMatters fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Nov 22, 2017

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

I feel like you accidentally skipped big chunks of the show

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012
Lipstick Apathy
Nah, I think that is pretty on-the-nose. The mind flayer never feels like a threat to anyone other than Will's health. I would have preferred Will as the host becoming part of the hive mind and unaware of it as opposed to being merely a "spying device" that is also aware and able to distinguish his thoughts from it. This alone ups the ante as host-Will could influence the other human characters or even infect them.

To me it even seems like they took the route they did with Will because he was a non-character last season so he needed a major part but they needed to follow up on that slug scene from the finale. Though I've got to hand it to Will's actor, he did a phenomenal job. They all did.

Former Human
Oct 15, 2001

NothingMatters posted:

After finishing this with my wife series 2 has an overall sense of writers having produced a unexpected hit being too afraid to try anything new interesting or dangerous and phoning it in and playing safe.

It could be a case study of how a nearly perfect show quickly became mediocre. TV writers and producers could watch it and say OK, this subplot went nowhere, this character did nothing of importance, this scene isn't original... let's not do what they did.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005

I don't know if anyone already pointed this out, but Dustin naming his pollywog d'Artagnan is a great touch because Dustin himself is the fourth member of the Party.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


What job do you have that makes you think it's farcial for psychic powers that originally opened an inter-dimensional rift to close it? Or that shooting with with a bunch of 5.56 bullets should totally close it?

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004
I do feel like Hopper and 11 just kind of appeared at the bottom of the lab. I get that the other kids were distracting the thing but for a consciousness that's spread over a whole town it's kind of lame that it only ever pays attention to one thing at a time and always sends it's ENTIRE army (except Will I guess) to do things.

Will definitely specifically was controlled by the monster and killed a bunch of people though so I don't know why he said that was missing.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005

pile of brown posted:

Will definitely specifically was controlled by the monster and killed a bunch of people though so I don't know why he said that was missing.

You mean when Will gave the lab people the bad info that got the squad sent to the ambush point? I figured that was Will being tricked by the Mind Flayer instead of being used directly as a puppet for speaking. It reminds me of DS9 when Odo was in the Great Link and got conned into believing something by the other Founders pretending to try and fail to hide the information.

At any rate, Will/"Evil Will" doesn't kill anyone under his own power.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007





You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Onomarchus posted:

You mean when Will gave the lab people the bad info that got the squad sent to the ambush point? I figured that was Will being tricked by the Mind Flayer instead of being used directly as a puppet for speaking. It reminds me of DS9 when Odo was in the Great Link and got conned into believing something by the other Founders pretending to try and fail to hide the information.

At any rate, Will/"Evil Will" doesn't kill anyone under his own power.

seems like he knows exactly what's going to happen shortly before it does (given his apology)

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


I finished Season 2 last night, and I felt like it was much weaker than the first. It seemed like the entire front half was just spinning its wheels trying to establish the new characters with a story that ultimately ended up being almost a beat-for-beat retelling of the first season. Something's wrong with Will, Joyce freaks out, Hopper goes to investigate spoopy stuff in the woods, the kids come up with a plan from their D&D rulebook, the teens beat each other up and make out in various combinations, and Eleven solves everything. Stop me if you've heard this one before.

The parts that I thought worked best were with pairings we didn't get to see in Season One. Hopper and Eleven's dynamic was really good and I wish they didn't abandon it halfway through the season. Trying to raise an adoptive daughter with telekinetic powers who is also going through puberty is a great concept and I wish they would have stuck with it. Steve's scenes with Dustin and the other kids were really entertaining and helped to round out his character. Nancy and Jonathan I really could not care less about. I also had no idea what Max and Billy were really doing in the script, it seems like they didn't serve any necessary function in moving the plot forward at all. I thought Billy should have at least tried to make out with Steve or something interesting like that, everyone knows he wanted to. I didn't even hate the Lost Sister episode the way other people do because it at least temporarily escaped plot vortex the rest of Season Two was stuck in. It should have just happened much sooner and for more than one episode, if they were going that route.

Anyway in summary I give it a 6/10 overall, please let's get out of Indiana for the next season, I ship Billy and Steve.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005

JawKnee posted:

seems like he knows exactly what's going to happen shortly before it does (given his apology)

He does. He's able to regain enough power or awareness to realize he's been used, spy on what's happening or about to happen, and warn the people he really cares about to go. It doesn't resolve whether he was tricked versus puppeteered, but I admit it could be either. Actually, given his calmness when giving the tip-off, I'm beginning to think he might have been puppeteered directly after all. Huh.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!

exquisite tea posted:

please let's get out of Indiana for the next season

No no, just turn the show into the new Eerie, Indiana and have next season be a series of Weird Thing of the Week. Just give it a weak justification, like the Upside Down is causing random and totally-distinct things to happen every week. Then the gang just deals with it and it's over until the next episode.

spookygonk
Apr 3, 2005
Does not give a damn

King Vidiot posted:

No no, just turn the show into the new Eerie, Indiana and have next season be a series of Weird Thing of the Week. Just give it a weak justification, like the Upside Down is causing random and totally-distinct things to happen every week. Then the gang just deals with it and it's over until the next episode.

Or a live action Gravity Falls.

OB_Juan
Nov 24, 2004

Not every day is a good day.


Dinosaur Gum

spookygonk posted:

Or a live action Gravity Falls.

The X-Files, but kids.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005

Success!



At Thanksgiving I met the person with the worst ST opinion ever. A few of us were gabbing about Steve being the best part of S2, and she got adamant he was toxic and indefensible because of how he treated Nancy and Jonathan.

She refused to accept his redemption arc at the end of S1 and his subsequent adventures in babysitting in S2, because one of his goon friend spray painted 'Nancy's a slut' in S1. We asked if she had watched to the end of S1.

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012
Lipstick Apathy
Anyone try the Stranger Things mobile game? It's a nice little diversion and ad free. I'm kind of impressed at the quality for a free promotional game. Though inexplicably you can't play as Steve.

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?

sweetmercifulcrap posted:

Anyone try the Stranger Things mobile game? It's a nice little diversion and ad free. I'm kind of impressed at the quality for a free promotional game. Though inexplicably you can't play as Steve.

I kind of stopped playing after getting Nancy. It's adequate, but I feel like there is just nothing to it. The presence of random swimming pools all across town was amusing, at least.

Knockknees
Dec 21, 2004

sprung out fully formed

And More posted:

I kind of stopped playing after getting Nancy. It's adequate, but I feel like there is just nothing to it. The presence of random swimming pools all across town was amusing, at least.

IF you had played longer, you would have discovered the game play function of the pools.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.
It's so weird how a lot of people outside this thread don't think Steve is great.

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?

Knockknees posted:

IF you had played longer, you would have discovered the game play function of the pools.

I think it's pretty obvious what the pools are for, dude. It's just funny that they are literally everywhere.

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012
Lipstick Apathy
People must have trouble with the concept of subverting tropes. Steve is intentionally introduced as a typical 80's movie jerk so maybe they think his redemption arc is just an act.

He's absolutely the best character.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


LadyPictureShow posted:

At Thanksgiving I met the person with the worst ST opinion ever. A few of us were gabbing about Steve being the best part of S2, and she got adamant he was toxic and indefensible because of how he treated Nancy and Jonathan.

She refused to accept his redemption arc at the end of S1 and his subsequent adventures in babysitting in S2, because one of his goon friend spray painted 'Nancy's a slut' in S1. We asked if she had watched to the end of S1.

I actually like that Nancy's most defining character trait is that she's just horny and likes to gently caress.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005

I may not love Steve as much as some here, but rewatching S1 I found Steve actually wasn't that much of the Jerk to begin with. Every time his rear end in a top hat follower Tommy says Jonathan killed Will, Steve tells him to cut that poo poo out. Until he learns about the peeping tom bit, Steve only just pities Jonathan. Far as I remember, to the modern viewer Steve only does two bad things in all of S1: 1) getting to his, well, objective with Nancy by supplying a bit of alcohol (a problem the writing of the show seems aware of since it's larger quantities of alcohol that lead to his breakup with her in S2) and 2) attacking Jonathan and his family after Steve thinks Jonathan slept with Nancy.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Also he broke Jonathan’s camera because he was defensive and humiliated about a weird pervert taking pictures of him having sex with Nancy.

TheLoneStar
Feb 9, 2017

Friendly reminder to cut people that dislike Steve out of your life.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005

Success!



You guys all hit the nail on the head. I mean you don't have to be 'Team Steve or Bust!', but 'he was mean to the couple I prefer at a few points last season' is the laziest of all arguments.

Someone pointed out 'he saved the day because he pulled his head out of his rear end, found out about the inter-dimensional monster, and came back to fight the demogorgon' but apparently the character is still awful because she doesn't find the actor attractive.

Consensus: I wish I had decided to drink at Thanksgiving before that convo happened.

Further comedy: she went on an emotional jag about the latest Planet of the Apes movie and was calling it 'Full Metal Jacket with monkeys', which I don't even think CD posters could begin to parse that one

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004

Onomarchus posted:

He does. He's able to regain enough power or awareness to realize he's been used, spy on what's happening or about to happen, and warn the people he really cares about to go. It doesn't resolve whether he was tricked versus puppeteered, but I admit it could be either. Actually, given his calmness when giving the tip-off, I'm beginning to think he might have been puppeteered directly after all. Huh.

We also get the scene later where he is only able to control a finger to tap out Morse code while the monster controls all of the rest of his body and speech

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

After Jonathon kicked Steve's rear end, Steve went to Jonathon's house to apologize. Just an all around great guy.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005

business hammocks posted:

Also he broke Jonathan’s camera because he was defensive and humiliated about a weird pervert taking pictures of him having sex with Nancy.

Actually I thought that was pretty justified, maybe letting him off easy. I mean, I know that's not the "proper" way to deal with it, but ratting him out for it would be out of character for Steve and most teenagers, and ultimately that would end up worse for Jonathan anyway.

empty baggie
Oct 22, 2003

Yeah man, if I caught a peeping tom taking pics of my wife in a compromising situation, a broken camera would be the least of their worries.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

In one of those aftershow episodes Joe Keery mentions that he played that scene like Steve was realizing that Jonathan has the potential to attract Nancy much more powerfully than he can, that he senses at some level that Jonathan is more like Nancy and has the potential to understand and challenge her more than Steve can.

I don’t know if I agree or that it comes through in the performance, but it’s a neat idea that arguably informs Steve’s brutal dumping in Stranger Things 2.

Ratios and Tendency
Apr 23, 2010

:swoon: MURALI :swoon:


exquisite tea posted:

I actually like that Nancy's most defining character trait is that she's just horny and likes to gently caress.

After her jawline surely.

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Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.
She's got arms like Goofy too.

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