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Moatman posted:I mean they don't usually go for that much, but sometimes they do https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Beauty-A...CkAAOSw-URZrZhw This must be some weirdo money-laundering scheme, right? These things are common as loving dirt.
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Nov 29, 2017 03:13
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jon joe posted:How true is the statement that you can't cash out bitcoins. Because I hear that all the time, but why. How. Where. I know the exchange kerfuffles of the prior years, like MTGOX, but what part of the current system prevents converting them to real dollars? people aren't willing to pay money for them
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Nov 29, 2017 03:25
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jon joe posted:How true is the statement that you can't cash out bitcoins. Because I hear that all the time, but why. How. Where. I know the exchange kerfuffles of the prior years, like MTGOX, but what part of the current system prevents converting them to real dollars? bitcoins aren't real money, they're like a commodity, except they dont actually exist, so the only value they have is what people are willing to pay for them. if you can find someone to buy your bitcoins for $10, then they are worth $10 problem is, there aren't a whole lot of people who are willing to pay cash for bitcoins right now. everyone wants to "mine" them, so they can exchange them for cash. there aren't a whole lot of people trying to buy bitcoins with money. there are a few, and some exchanges who have cash to trade for bitcoins, but mostly it's just people swapping them around for drugs or gift cards or other shady things technically, you can cash out bitcoins, but it's a stupid amount of effort and the more value you're trying to extract the harder a time you'll have just because nobody has or is willing to part with tens of thousands of dollars right now
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Nov 29, 2017 03:46
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boner confessor posted:bitcoins aren't real money, they're like a commodity, except they dont actually exist, so the only value they have is what people are willing to pay for them. if you can find someone to buy your bitcoins for $10, then they are worth $10 Oh it's even better than that. If someone trades <fraction of buttcoin> for <filthy fiat dollars>, then presto fucko, the buttcoin ~~~mArKeT cApIlItIsAtIoN~~~ is magically "worth" the price paid times 21 million divided by the fraction of buttcoin purchased. Some idiot buys a hundredth of a buttcoin for ten thousand statist dollars? Hooray, all buttcoins are now "worth" one million dollars! Also nothingmatters we get it, you love buttcoin and you think we're all dumb statists for not agreeeing with you. Kindly clam down now.
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Nov 29, 2017 03:59
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jon joe posted:How true is the statement that you can't cash out bitcoins. Because I hear that all the time, but why. How. Where. I know the exchange kerfuffles of the prior years, like MTGOX, but what part of the current system prevents converting them to real dollars? You can, we can't. you cash out 5, 10, even 5000 dollars and if you give the right exchange your ssn and bank login password (yeah, really) you'll get your money. But look at the market depth, there is less than 4000 coins between 10,000 and 7000 dollars. *A* person can cash out some, collectively the depth is nothing, there isn't even a few million dollars that could be cashed out before slippage tanks the price to nothing.
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Nov 29, 2017 04:09
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Weatherman posted:Oh it's even better than that. Okay, because that was going to be my follow-up question: How are we valuing these if nobody buys them. Makes 'sense'. I'd like to purchase a time share in another reality, please.
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Nov 29, 2017 04:33
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Weatherman posted:Oh it's even better than that. Isn't this how all markets work? Incidentally, this is why market depth matters too (stock markets for major firms are incredibly liquid).
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Nov 29, 2017 04:50
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jon joe posted:Okay, because that was going to be my follow-up question: How are we valuing these if nobody buys them. Makes 'sense'. It's like having stock in a company not many people are interested in trading for. Even if your 1000 shares at $50 each in Bob's Lumber Corp, a small lumber store chain, is attached to well-run business with legit price basis, you may not be able to actually unload your $50,000 investment at anything close to $50,000 quickly. You might need to wait many months for people to buy all 1000 shares off you at $50 or more, or you will find people who will buy all 1000 quickly but an average price of no more than $5 each. You know?
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Nov 29, 2017 05:03
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Bitcoin's collapse will be especially hilarious since it's the basis for all these other ICOs that are happening: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/26/business/initial-coin-offering-critic.html quote:Start-ups have raised more than $3 billion this year from investors through coin offerings. Most start-ups say the coins they are selling will be useful as a method of payment in the online services they are building.
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Nov 29, 2017 05:24
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https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/935737832815185921
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Nov 29, 2017 06:37
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I don't get ICOs. Don't they come with disclaimers saying that they're worthless and confer no rights or benefits?
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Nov 29, 2017 07:05
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Arglebargle III posted:I don't get ICOs. Don't they come with disclaimers saying that they're worthless and confer no rights or benefits? Yeah but those disclaimers are just there to magically make you immune to (((banks))) and (((the state))), not because cosbycoin is actually worthless.
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Nov 29, 2017 08:23
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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jon joe posted:How true is the statement that you can't cash out bitcoins. Because I hear that all the time, but why. How. Where. I know the exchange kerfuffles of the prior years, like MTGOX, but what part of the current system prevents converting them to real dollars? Here’s what I said literally just a couple pages ago, to someone claiming you can totally cash out Bitcoin in real quantities: eschaton posted:Nobody’s said it’s absolutely impossible to get real money out of Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency (“crypto” is short for “cryptography,” drat it), just that it’s virtually impossible to do so. And you yourself have explained exactly why, in the same post. If I had as much in Bitcoin as I have in stock and other investments, and I tried to cash out as much Bitcoin as I did stock to buy my home, I would single-handedly tank the market. And by Bay Area standards I didn’t actually cash out a lot of stock to buy my home. eschaton fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Nov 29, 2017 |
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Nov 29, 2017 08:24
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We need to find a better term than cryptocurrency for this stuff. As Kashmir Hill said the other day, she gave some people sushi money in bitcoin a few years back that's now with $100k.
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Nov 29, 2017 14:47
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Arglebargle III posted:I don't get ICOs. Don't they come with disclaimers saying that they're worthless and confer no rights or benefits?  ICOs are most certainly illegalThere's this thing called "securities regulation," which first became necessary in the early 1930s (for some reason  ) and has been continually reinforced and/or dismantled depending on whose shenanigans we're enduring this decade. Like most forms of criminal activity, the smart-ish criminals keep about 2 steps ahead of the enforcers. The SEC is starting to become aware of ICOs, and in the US they have the authority to regulate them, i.e., require them to comply with existing secregs, i.e., effectively ban them because noncompliance is their raison d'etre. Unlike ICOs, which are unregistered (read: illegal) securities and thus subject to SEC enforcement, Bitcoin is a weirder animal. AFAICT, there's no pressing reason for any US regulatory agency to give much of a poo poo about BTC? I'm sure that international intelligence agencies appreciate being able to electronically track some forms of money laundering (the minute proportion of BTC activity that isn't idiotic speculation). The rest of the market activity is a bunch of bullshit, and everybody knows it except for STEMlords on Hackernews.
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Nov 29, 2017 15:23
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Neon Noodle posted:Unlike ICOs, which are unregistered (read: illegal) securities and thus subject to SEC enforcement, Bitcoin is a weirder animal. AFAICT, there's no pressing reason for any US regulatory agency to give much of a poo poo about BTC? I'm sure that international intelligence agencies appreciate being able to electronically track some forms of money laundering (the minute proportion of BTC activity that isn't idiotic speculation). The rest of the market activity is a bunch of bullshit, and everybody knows it except for STEMlords on Hackernews. The CFTC has beaten some Bitcoin exchanges (e.g. Bitfinex) around the head and neck for messing US investors around in Bitcoin dealings. They seem to think they have ambit over Bitcoin dealings. But they're not descending from the skies. Yeah, basically the regulators don't care hugely as long as the crypto buffoons just kill each other and don't mess around with e.g. Ponzis etc. (The SEC dealt with Pirateat40, remember.)
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Nov 29, 2017 15:33
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Nice quote on twitter today:https://twitter.com/phirephoenix/status/935771248986030082 posted:The kind of techno-utopian thinking that leads SV to try to invent ~*alternative*~ schools to ~*disrupt*~ education is not dissimilar from the impulse to write a new JS framework for every problem. It’s much more glamorous to tear it all down than to iteratively fix systems.
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Nov 29, 2017 16:19
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jon joe posted:How true is the statement that you can't cash out bitcoins. Because I hear that all the time, but why. How. Where. I know the exchange kerfuffles of the prior years, like MTGOX, but what part of the current system prevents converting them to real dollars? Do you consider Amazon gift cards to be real dollars
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Nov 29, 2017 16:31
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eschaton posted:Here’s what I said literally just a couple pages ago, to someone claiming you can totally cash out Bitcoin in real quantities: I don't think you realize how much money is going through these markets right now. Buying a home money would not change the price enough notably. The average buying wall is around 250k-300k on GDAX and they are set about every $20-30 out. Meaning buying 250k-300k would move or lower the market by about $20-30 per bitcoin. Depending on how many other people are trading. So you'd need significantly more money to effect the market that much. In other news Nasdaq will launch Bitcoin futures next year.
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Nov 29, 2017 17:12
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NothingMatters posted:Buying a home money would not change the price enough notably. The average buying wall is around 250k-300k on GDAX and they are set about every $20-30 out. Meaning buying 250k-300k would move or lower the market by about $20-30 per bitcoin. Depending on how many other people are trading. So what you are saying is that buying one house would lower the bitcoin 'market cap' by 570 million dollars.
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Nov 29, 2017 17:14
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ufarn posted:We need to find a better term than cryptocurrency for this stuff. As Kashmir Hill said the other day, she gave some people sushi money in bitcoin a few years back that's now with $100k. "hyperdeflationary electricity-waster"?
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Nov 29, 2017 17:33
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:So what you are saying is that buying one house would lower the bitcoin 'market cap' by 570 million dollars. On one marketplace it would lower the price. Not all of them.
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Nov 29, 2017 17:40
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NothingMatters posted:I don't think you realize how much money is going through these markets right now. "why, last night i played monopoly with the fellows and each of us were handling millions of dollars worth of alternative currency"
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Nov 29, 2017 17:46
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NothingMatters posted:On one marketplace it would lower the price. Not all of them. You see nothing crazy about one marketplace undervaluing the value of bitcoin by over half a billion dollars because someone bought a 300,000 dollar house?
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Nov 29, 2017 17:49
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NothingMatters posted:I don't think you realize how much money is going through these markets right now. Here's a riddle: Why would you buy bitcoin futures and not bitcoins themselves? Surely if you believe that there's money to be made from the rising price of bitcoins you would want to trade them yourself.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:33
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pospysyl posted:Here's a riddle: Why would you buy bitcoin futures and not bitcoins themselves? Surely if you believe that there's money to be made from the rising price of bitcoins you would want to trade them yourself. Eh I'm not sure. The main reason Bitcoin Futures are being released is because they can actually be regulated and the specific regulatory companies that regulate futures have agreed to regulate them.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:49
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outlier posted:Nice quote on twitter today: Github allows you to show off how many stars your repos get but not your pull requests. It's all about having your bespoke artisanal string to boolean library being used by everyone.
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Nov 29, 2017 22:06
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Bitcoin seems to have hit on the Chinese solution: the market can't crash if no one is ever allowed to take their money out of it! 
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Nov 30, 2017 00:09
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You buy futures as a hedge against other positions you hold, generally. Futures contracts I guess could allow for more diversification in bitcoin investment, but at the end of the day every coins' price is still pegged to BTC because you need it to cash out, so it probably isn't going to stabilize the market much. Also coworker who is a major bitcoin evangelist tried to sell today and couldn't and I tried very hard not to go on a rant about how liquidity works. She was like "actually it's good because the system is probably down because so many new people are buying in" and it's just...
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Nov 30, 2017 00:19
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(Crossposted from the libertarian thread. There is no escape from the Bitcoin chat!) There are some real stupid arguments promoting Bitcoin out there: cryptocoin news posted:From January of 2017 to November, the market valuation of bitcoin increased from less than $15 billion to $156 billion. Also, if you want to measure the scale of Visa or Mastercard, you shouldn't look at their market caps or revenue or total assets. Visa and Mastercard primarily do funds transfers. Visa alone processed $6.8 trillion worth of transactions in 2015, while MasterCard did over $2 trillion in 2010. Meanwhile, last I checked, the value of Bitcoin crashes anytime sometime tries to exchange more than a few dozen bitcoins at a time. Of course, if Bitcoin is really a currency, then it should be compared to other currencies. How about that (utterly spurious) calculation of the Bitcoin money supply from that article—$156 billion? How's that compare to the US dollar?  (Source) Ouch. Bitcoin is about 4% of that. Of course, that's just the M1 supply, which is just physical cash, checking accounts, and a few other things—extremely liquid money. Given how truly terrible Bitcoin's practical liquidity is, a comparison of the combined liquid/slightly-less-liquid M2 supply is more appropriate:  (Source)  Total bitcoin supply is about 1% of this. Of course, this isn't stopping Bitcoiners from claiming it's the 30th "biggest" currency, whatever the gently caress that goddamn means.
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Nov 30, 2017 04:39
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Bitcoin isn't a currency it's a large speculative bubble. Like the Tech Bubble of the 1990s. That's why certain investors loving love it. Imagine if Bitcoin had been invented in the late 90s.
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Nov 30, 2017 04:51
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NothingMatters posted:Bitcoin isn't a currency it's a large speculative bubble. Like the Tech Bubble of the 1990s. Why do you keep chopping and changing between "buttcoin is cool and you all drool" and "buttcoin is a unicorn and I am posting about it in the unicorn thread"? Source your quotes if you're running a copy-paste job or something. Or tell us how many buttcoins you own and how you're going to cash out.
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Nov 30, 2017 05:32
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Weatherman posted:Why do you keep chopping and changing between "buttcoin is cool and you all drool" and "buttcoin is a unicorn and I am posting about it in the unicorn thread"? Source your quotes if you're running a copy-paste job or something. Or tell us how many buttcoins you own and how you're going to cash out. Man I didn't buy bitcoins because I spent the past 4 years on this forum reading how dumb it was but if I had when I first heard of it I could of been a millionaire by now. These forums all hate bitcoin but if the people that mocked it from the beginning spent a tenth of the time and money they did mocking it actually buying a little of it they'd could of funded their children's college with it. Which they probably will need. Because scholarships and tuition are being taxed now.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:18
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NothingMatters posted:Man I didn't buy bitcoins because I spent the past 4 years on this forum reading how dumb it was but if I had when I first heard of it I could of been a millionaire by now. If you had invested 4 years ago you would’ve lost the coins in one of the exchanges going down. Probably mtgox. If you invest a sizable amount now you are unlikely to be able to transfer it back out all at once. If CME goes through with bitcoin futures though that all changes...
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Nov 30, 2017 06:23
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hobbesmaster posted:If you had invested 4 years ago you would’ve lost the coins in one of the exchanges going down. Probably mtgox. If you invest a sizable amount now you are unlikely to be able to transfer it back out all at once. You could of always stored it in a private wallet and some of those funds were recuperated.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:26
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NothingMatters posted:You could of always stored it in a private wallet and some of those funds were recuperated. You could do a lot of things with a time machine and perfect knowledge of the future.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:28
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Some people come out with great wins from the Casino.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:28
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Some people come out with great wins from the Casino. Yeah but 100% of the people who bought and saved $5 worth of bitcoins back when this forum was first talking about it now have $500,000 worth of it so there's that.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:32
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100% of 0 people made 0 good decisions collectively
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Nov 30, 2017 07:03
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I could be a millionaire if I could get someone to pay a million dollars for this shoebox of baseball cards. 
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Nov 30, 2017 07:04
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