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MausoleumExtremist posted:Hey- nobody's asked yet, https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3812306
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Nov 29, 2017 14:12
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 02:45 |
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There's no legal requirement for how long organizations have to store surveillance video, but most places have policies to only retain the last 14-30 days of video. Some places go longer because of internal policies but generally because of drive space and privacy concerns, but even that doesn't usually go past 90 days.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:25
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Imagined posted:Until about ten years ago most places that had a security camera had it recorded on a single VCR tape. To their credit they ran in SP instead of SLP
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Nov 29, 2017 18:25
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Even if you needed to store it for 30 days a la my GoPro example, it works out to just over 11TB for 30 days of 60 fps 1080p. Three or four hundred dollars? Then feed that to an unlimited cloud backup like BackBlaze and you can record everything forever as long as you pay your $5/month.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:41
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Instant Sunrise posted:There's no legal requirement for how long organizations have to store surveillance video, but most places have policies to only retain the last 14-30 days of video. Some places go longer because of internal policies but generally because of drive space and privacy concerns, but even that doesn't usually go past 90 days. When I moved up to manager and actually had a stake in how well the store did, I would just go back and pull whole days off the security cameras if we were significantly short at the end of the day, or if someone reported a shoplifter. We had one really sneaky and persistent shoplifter who would change his appearance pretty drastically each time he came in, and it took like a few months of footage before I was finally able to ID him fast enough to get the cops in there before he left.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:42
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Also, while I get that 1080 is the standard for watching movies now, I don't think security cameras need to necessarily be capturing 1080p/60fps footage. Even standard-def 30fps would be an improvement, a lot of security camera footage looks like it's recording in like 240p/10fps, which is a little silly nowadays. If you were taking 480/30fps footage you could probably archive like 6 months on a standard hard drive.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:45
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:Also, while I get that 1080 is the standard for watching movies now, I don't think security cameras need to necessarily be capturing 1080p/60fps footage. Even standard-def 30fps would be an improvement, a lot of security camera footage looks like it's recording in like 240p/10fps, which is a little silly nowadays. If you were taking 480/30fps footage you could probably archive like 6 months on a standard hard drive. 1080p or even 4k at lower frame rates are preferred for security cam footage because the details that can be used to identify people, cars, license plates, etc. I think we are recording our 1080p cameras at 30fps and our 4k parking lot cameras at 10 or 15 fps. Last time I looked, 12 cameras were taking up about 11TB of storage for 60 days of playback, but that is also with motion activation recording, so if nothing in frame is moving, no data is recorded.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:54
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Imagined posted:Even if you needed to store it for 30 days a la my GoPro example, it works out to just over 11TB for 30 days of 60 fps 1080p. Three or four hundred dollars? Then feed that to an unlimited cloud backup like BackBlaze and you can record everything forever as long as you pay your $5/month. BackBlaze and many similar backup services only do backups of local files, you can't store things ONLY on BackBlaze's servers in perpetuity. I believe they only store locally deleted files for 30 days.
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Nov 29, 2017 19:49
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Imagined posted:Until about ten years ago most places that had a security camera had it recorded on a single VCR tape. The store I worked at in high school kept a month's worth of security cam footage, recorded on a regular VCR. The place was open 12 hours a day, so we had a big wall of 60 tapes -- two per day in EP (six hour) mode. There was a little box that would automatically rotate through the three camera views every few seconds, but it wasn't fancy enough to put a timestamp on the image, so we just made sure there was a wall clock visible in one of the camera views. It worked great, as long as the manager remembered to swap tapes at the halfway point of the day. Nailed more than a few shoplifters with that thing.
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Nov 29, 2017 20:16
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Anybody ever use videotape as a computer backup? We did that at a pawn shop I worked at in the early 90s.
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Nov 29, 2017 23:52
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Mister Kingdom posted:Anybody ever use videotape as a computer backup? We did that at a pawn shop I worked at in the early 90s. Like, you ran code:
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Nov 29, 2017 23:58
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Jerry Cotton posted:Like, you ran This was like a standard tape backup, but using videotape instead. It would take several hours.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:00
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Of course there is a video about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUS0Zv2APjU
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Nov 30, 2017 00:05
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:Also, while I get that 1080 is the standard for watching movies now, I don't think security cameras need to necessarily be capturing 1080p/60fps footage. Even standard-def 30fps would be an improvement, a lot of security camera footage looks like it's recording in like 240p/10fps, which is a little silly nowadays. If you were taking 480/30fps footage you could probably archive like 6 months on a standard hard drive. it's more complicated than just resolution--if you have wide angle lenses on cameras mounted too far away from the area of interest, even 4k might not be enough resolution to recognize faces. otoh, if you have cameras with narrow FOVs that are the proper distance from the area of interest, 480p is more than enough resolution. https://kintronics.com/calculating-can-see-ip-camera/
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Nov 30, 2017 00:08
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Mister Kingdom posted:Anybody ever use videotape as a computer backup? We did that at a pawn shop I worked at in the early 90s. No, but I have a brain addled uncle who asked me to follow him to his bedroom one Christmas holiday probably 13 years ago to "show me something". He handed me a pair of grimy headphones and I listened to Phil Collins 'In the Air Tonight' while his TV screen skipped, flickered, and pranced a noisy dance. "I converted my music to VHS" he grinned showing his 20 remaining teeth. "It's High Fidelity". He then went on to explain if you wrote down the tracking number you could fast forward to whatever song you wanted. And better yet, you could get 8 hours on one tape. I mean I couldn't really argue with the 8 hour part. That was a lot of music storage in 2004.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:10
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Continuing CCTV chat... digital video needs lots of space. Our recently opened branch location is equipped with 38 2MP IP cams at 30fps. All cams use motion activation to conserve space. With 36TB of total space we average around 2 months of retention time. And that actually varies a bit depending on activity. Some of the cameras may actually only record a few minutes a day thanks to motion activation. Interestingly the cameras and software we use actually save one frame per second from every camera to disk regardless of activity. Until they see motion. Then it ramps up to 30fps until the motion stops. The camera also has a on-board buffer that retains the previous 3 seconds at the full 30fps. So for any motion event you end up with 30fps video starting at 3 seconds BEFORE the motion is sensed, and then it stays at 30fps until the motion subsides. The one FPS thing means you still have some images from an event, even if the event didn't manage to trigger the motion sensing threshold. Its all pretty nifty. (Vivotek brand cameras using their own software if anyone is wondering) Definitely beats the old systems we used to have that used a special CCTV VCR to record multiple cameras to a single tape. Had a entire bookcase of tapes just to maintain a few weeks of retention time.
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Nov 30, 2017 01:46
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I used to do casino surveillance if anyone has questions I will answer them to the best of my ability. Everything we used was digital, but they kept on adding IP cameras which were only accessable with a computer. Those cameras aren't fun, we couldn't use the keyboard to manipulate the IP cameras. Digital zoom sucks. I learned some fun tricks, but you have to be a certain breed of broken to be able to watch people work and live life 8 hours a day. I still find myself staring at people and watching people forgetting I am not sequestered 20ft below in a dark cold room no one knows about.
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Nov 30, 2017 02:32
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Mister Kingdom posted:Anybody ever use videotape as a computer backup? We did that at a pawn shop I worked at in the early 90s.
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Nov 30, 2017 02:40
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Krispy Wafer posted:No, but I have a brain addled uncle who asked me to follow him to his bedroom one Christmas holiday probably 13 years ago to "show me something". Was your uncle a CS professor? I had a teacher convert everything to VHS and hacked up some DAC to use tapes as music storage. Orcs and Ostriches has a new favorite as of 02:47 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 02:43
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mystes posted:Did you actually test restoring from the backups? My biggest concern with this sort of system would be that since it would be so time consuming to restore, nobody would ever bother to check that the backups were working correctly until it was too late. As far as I can remember, it was done once. but I don't recall how long it took.
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Nov 30, 2017 03:00
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Mister Kingdom posted:As far as I can remember, it was done once. but I don't recall how long it took. Some say it is still restoring today...
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Nov 30, 2017 05:03
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Lowen SoDium posted:Some say it is still restoring today... And some others say that the day it successfully restores will be the end of days...
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Nov 30, 2017 06:05
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Krispy Wafer posted:No, but I have a brain addled uncle who asked me to follow him to his bedroom one Christmas holiday probably 13 years ago to "show me something".
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Nov 30, 2017 06:37
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Samizdata posted:And some others say that the day it successfully restores will be the end of days... Indeed, the very idea is something like blasphemy.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:38
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:
Just be happy things went the way they did
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Nov 30, 2017 10:09
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All this CCTV chat about resolution is redundant, most cameras in use today are poo poo because of exposure, and general problems with image quality rather than the resolution. I'd take a sharp, high range camera at 480p over any lovely 1080p crap any day.
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Nov 30, 2017 10:43
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There were special VHS recorders made for CCTV. they'd have multiple camera inputs and cycle between them automatically, or arrange them into a single image (say 2x2 from four cameras, or 3x2 from six). They would also play the tape at a super slow speed and basically record single video frames once per second or two. The one I saw years ago would record 120, 240, 480, or 960 hours on a single 4hr tape - and yes the quality was absolute dogshit, and yes the owner used the same two tapes over and over and over for years making them even worse. Something like this: ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/CCTV/SpecSheets/AG-TL950.pdf
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Nov 30, 2017 12:35
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Sweevo posted:Something like this: ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/CCTV/SpecSheets/AG-TL950.pdf FTP links are pretty relevant to this thread.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:46
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Was your uncle a CS professor? I had a teacher convert everything to VHS and hacked up some DAC to use tapes as music storage. I'll reference back to his 20 remaining teeth and assure you, no he wasn't a professor of anything. That was 13 years ago. It's down to 10 now and those aren't looking very good. The Sausages posted:Just be happy things went the way they did You know it.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:54
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Krispy Wafer posted:He handed me a pair of grimy headphones and I listened to Phil Collins 'In the Air Tonight' while his TV screen skipped, flickered, and pranced a noisy dance. "I converted my music to VHS" he grinned showing his 20 remaining teeth. "It's High Fidelity". He was playing it back through the TV? Surely if you're going to the effort of recording eight hours of Phil Collins onto VHS you can go to the effort of hooking up an amplifier to the VCR. edit: maybe I over estimate the purchasing power of a man who has the time to record eight hours of Phil Collins onto VHS at, presumably, 1x speed.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:33
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Horace posted:He was playing it back through the TV? Surely if you're going to the effort of recording eight hours of Phil Collins onto VHS you can go to the effort of hooking up an amplifier to the VCR. It was playing off the TV. The headphones were wireless. Probably 2.4ghz range (this was pre-Bluetooth). Added a warmth to the music that you don't get today. I'm pretty sure if I stepped two feet to the left or right I'd lose connection with the antenna that was broadcasting No Jacket Required into my sound holes.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:44
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Just lol if you weren't half-speed mastering you Phil Colin's VHS back in 2004. "Hi Fi"
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Nov 30, 2017 14:51
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bigman.50grand posted:Just lol if you weren't half-speed mastering you Phil Colin's VHS back in 2004.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:12
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I Brake For MILFs posted:I used to do casino surveillance if anyone has questions I will answer them to the best of my ability. Know what's even more fun? Having the IT guy tell you that to access the new camera system you have to use the web app via Internet Explorer, over the company internet (and no, not intranet). Guess how reactive the cameras were to input!
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Dec 1, 2017 01:30
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Recirculating Acoustic Memory?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BIx2x-Q2fE
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Dec 1, 2017 01:38
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Mister Kingdom posted:Anybody ever use videotape as a computer backup? We did that at a pawn shop I worked at in the early 90s. No, but I have heard about local radio stations broadcasting computer programs. Like, record their stuff on a cassette and pop it in your C-64's tape drive and load it up. Don't know how well this is supposed to have worked.
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Dec 1, 2017 13:34
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Groke posted:No, but I have heard about local radio stations broadcasting computer programs. Like, record their stuff on a cassette and pop it in your C-64's tape drive and load it up. Don't know how well this is supposed to have worked. I can't imagine this would work well- think about the last time you heard a radio broadcast without even the tiniest little bit of distortion or signal strength fluctuation.
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Dec 1, 2017 13:57
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Pope Guilty posted:I can't imagine this would work well- think about the last time you heard a radio broadcast without even the tiniest little bit of distortion or signal strength fluctuation.
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Dec 1, 2017 14:14
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mystes posted:The tapes weren't like modern digital tapes used for backups. They just modulated data to really low bitrate 2 level afsk (the c64 may have been slightly more complicated than this) or something similar that is already a format that can easily be used for radio transmission of digital data. Also the tape drive on the C64 operated at only 300 baud which made for pretty robust data transfer (there were software hacks that made alternate formats possible with much greater speed).
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Dec 1, 2017 14:19
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 02:45 |
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Pope Guilty posted:I can't imagine this would work well- think about the last time you heard a radio broadcast without even the tiniest little bit of distortion or signal strength fluctuation.  And of the VHS as backup thing - I've seen advertisements for such systems. They allowed you to use your regular VHS player. Some, if I recall correctly, didn't even use any special interface cards - they plugged into the lines in and out of your soundcard and the software handled the rest. Capacity? Around a gig or two, I think. I found it interesting and almost bought one, when my HD was 540 MB (and that was YUGE!) but decided against it.
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Dec 1, 2017 14:25
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