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cheetah7071 posted:Chie doesn't betray her arc because she doesn't have an arc adachi even makes fun of her for it, iirc, and she never has a comeback for him.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:12
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Danakir posted:You're both really really weirdly invested into Persona being the worst thing to ever happen to gay people. I myself think it's really weird that alot of people seem to view P4 as some kind of progressive game regarding LGBT issues when it's the other way around. I had read several articles about it before playing the game, and while Kanji himself and his arc has a pretty nice message, the overall message is not. Mike people have said, it's pretty much 'Kanji might have some non standard hobbies, but Thank Goodness he's not actually gay.' It seems like people played the game and just replaced whatever happens in it with their own headcanon, and advertised the game they wanted, not the real deal. Then again, the same happened with games like FF7. It's just that this particular issue is actually real and a big deal to many people, and the Persona writers are really lovely about it. P4's story just annoyed me in general. Almost all the characters resolve their teen issues by doing whatever's expected of them. Yukiko deciding she wants to keep working at the inn is one example. Of course, it's all written in a way that makes it seem like it's a good thing the characters want. That just coincidentally makes them head in a more socially acceptable direction.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:13
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Endorph posted:chie: ive seen the ways in which the police system is abusive, sexist, and allows for anyone with half a brain to get away with literal murder. better become a cop. Oh so she's Makoto cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Dec 2, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 03:13
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chie betrays her arc by becoming a cop, a job in which you use a gun and never do rad kicks
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Dec 2, 2017 03:15
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corn in the bible posted:chie betrays her arc by becoming a cop, a job in which you use a gun and never do rad kicks Well, there was some random reference in P5 to a new female cop that really, really loves kung fu in Inaba, so I guess old habits die hard
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Dec 2, 2017 03:17
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the only character that really challenges anything is Naoto, because she decides she can be a female cop and not take poo poo from anyone who tells her otherwise, which would be fine if a bit of a weird angle to take considering the directions her story kind of hinted at at the start... if it weren't for her s. link where you put her in a schoolgirl uniform and gently caress her, and all the 'funny' scenes where she's put into sexy/skimpy outfits or naked and then everyone sees her big boobs!!! while she feels intensely violated as a person, but more importantly, big boobs!!
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Dec 2, 2017 03:17
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Their true selves being what everyone and society wanted them to be apparently. Or maybe modern society means something different for people. Maybe different cultures have different values. The cast couldn't be any more privileged. They have families that love them and loyal friends. Aside from some teasing they're not bullied. Their government isn't trying to kill them. They haven't been wronged in any way. Them changing, which in the game's perspective is them abandoning their lives, is actively destructive to themselves and their community. I don't want to argue the cliché East vs. West storyline approach but P4 rejects the notion that change is inherently good. The overarching battle of the SMT series isn't good vs. evil, it's law vs. chaos and P4 makes an argument for law.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:18
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corn in the bible posted:chie betrays her arc by becoming a cop, a job in which you use a gun and never do rad kicks Counterpoint, as Sleeping Dogs taught us you can be a cop that uses primarily rad kicks to fight crime.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:18
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al-azad posted:The cast couldn't be any more privileged. They have families that love them and loyal friends. Aside from some teasing they're not bullied. Their government isn't trying to kill them. They haven't been wronged in any way. Them changing, which in the game's perspective is them abandoning their lives, is actively destructive to themselves and their community.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:19
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I swear I like persona games. The surface stuff (gay dudes in p5 etc aside) is all really really good, you just can't think about the themes too hard or you'll be disappointed
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Dec 2, 2017 03:19
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al-azad posted:Or maybe modern society means something different for people. Maybe different cultures have different values. Middle aged Persona writer spotted. How the gently caress can you even say that with a straight face given that teenagers in Japan have it much worse over there than they do here, yet they're still somehow "priviledged"? Teenagers over there face intense pressure to live up to the standards of their peers and family and it's why the goddamn suicide rate is so high there. They do face victimization and bullying if they are even doing something slightly out of what is expected of them. Holy poo poo.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:23
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i only really like the persona 2s
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Dec 2, 2017 03:24
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corn in the bible posted:chie betrays her arc by becoming a cop, a job in which you use a gun and never do rad kicks japanese cops don't use guns they just do rad kicks because they all need to be black belt-rated martial artists
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Dec 2, 2017 03:25
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how the gently caress is "change isn't inherently good and you should conform because that's better for the community and yourself" NOT an incredibly conservative message
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Dec 2, 2017 03:26
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The White Dragon posted:japanese cops don't use guns they just do rad kicks because they all need to be black belt-rated martial artists This isn’t even hyperbole or a joke. Most police stations have a dojo inside. They’re all required to take a martial art as part of their job.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:27
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Stexils posted:how the gently caress is "change isn't inherently good and you should conform because that's better for the community and yourself" NOT an incredibly conservative message It's pretty much a definition of the term. But it's really overloaded.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:28
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The only persona that actually matters is dub Labrys.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:29
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al-azad posted:Or maybe modern society means something different for people. Maybe different cultures have different values. Well, This makes me like Persona less
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Dec 2, 2017 03:29
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The only good persona is 3 despite the whole "durhur men and women can be friends without loving???" thing.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:32
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Middle aged Persona writer spotted. Where was this monumental pressure expressed anywhere? Where did a character suffer because they couldn't live up to their peers? Where were the overbearing parents? Did any of this impact Persona 4's success as a video game? Are there Japanese teenagers writing "this game is bullshit" blogs because it's fundamentally wrong? Every society has their problems, let's not blanket them all in a discussion about a video game. If you want to know my life story, I grew up black in the South. My parents remember going to school in a loving closet. They stressed the great opportunity I had in the 21st century that I could achieve anything but to never ever forget where I came from. Because this country will lure you in with promises and opportunity but won't hesitate to stab you in the back but family will always be there for you. So yeah, I cannot connect at all with storylines where characters actively destroy themselves and everyone around them yet it's justified if they achieve their goal. I value family and community more than the individual self. Within the perspective of the game, the events you see, why is this inherently wrong? What do 16-year-old-kids hope to gain by destroying themselves for absolutely nothing?
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Dec 2, 2017 03:36
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Tired Moritz posted:The only good persona is 3 despite the whole "durhur men and women can be friends without loving???" thing. I don't remember that part chumbler posted:The only persona that actually matters is dub Labrys. Labrys rules
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Dec 2, 2017 03:39
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I like persona 4 and 5, hot take
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Dec 2, 2017 03:40
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cheetah7071 posted:nier automata is my personal overrated game of the year. the only things I really liked about it were the character designs and music I nominate this for the worst opinion of the year.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:40
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I meant the weird thing how you can't be pals with your female social links without banging them.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:42
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chumbler posted:The only persona that actually matters is dub Labrys. I loved playing Shadow Labrys in the Arena games; people tend to freak the gently caress out about Asterius a lot of times and make some sloppy mistakes .... poo poo, I should have just tried learning her as opposed to forcing myself to stick to Naoto (didn't really like anyone's playstyle in that game for some reason, Naoto just got me the most amount of wins). But the point is that Labrys and Shabrys were cool people for new people. The folks in Q and DAN, not so much.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:47
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Tired Moritz posted:I meant the weird thing how you can't be pals with your female social links without banging them.
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Dec 2, 2017 03:58
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al-azad posted:Are there Japanese teenagers writing "this game is bullshit" blogs because it's fundamentally wrong?
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Dec 2, 2017 03:59
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al-azad posted:So yeah, I cannot connect at all with storylines where characters actively destroy themselves and everyone around them yet it's justified if they achieve their goal. I value family and community more than the individual self. Within the perspective of the game, the events you see, why is this inherently wrong? What do 16-year-old-kids hope to gain by destroying themselves for absolutely nothing? I dunno how storylines that mostly have to so with stuff like career paths and hobbies involve the possibility of self-destruction.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:00
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i started thinking about what a persona game where the main character is a homless gently caress up would be like and then somehow veered into what a yakuza/persona crossover game would be like aside from literally Kazuma's bizarre adventure
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Dec 2, 2017 04:01
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Endorph posted:that was only in vanilla persona 3, they removed it in fes and p3p. it came about as a result of the director literally having never had a female friend in his life, though, so. it was still in fes and p3p, only femc could romance dudes without banging all of them
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Dec 2, 2017 04:02
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also, yeah, that. and also there's the simple fact that no matter how much you value community and family, there are situations where your community or your family are toxic and you're better off cutting yourself off from them. Not to say that really applies to Persona 4, but like, making a blanket statement that any attempt to cut yourself off from those things is self-destructive is lol.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:02
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The Colonel posted:it was still in fes and p3p, only femc could romance dudes without banging all of them Pretty sure this is right
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Dec 2, 2017 04:03
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The Colonel posted:it was still in fes and p3p, only femc could romance dudes without banging all of them oh. i wasnt sure about fes but i thought it was fixed in p3p male mc route. goddamn.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:04
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Infinity Gaia posted:Counterpoint, as Sleeping Dogs taught us you can be a cop that uses primarily rad kicks to
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Dec 2, 2017 04:06
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al-azad posted:So yeah, I cannot connect at all with storylines where characters actively destroy themselves and everyone around them yet it's justified if they achieve their goal. I value family and community more than the individual self. Within the perspective of the game, the events you see, why is this inherently wrong? What do 16-year-old-kids hope to gain by destroying themselves for absolutely nothing? people are criticizing the writing for deliberately constructing every scenario so that their individual feelings match up with what society wants, which wouldn't be the case with even slight changes. for example what if kanji was actually gay? it would be awful to suggest that he should stay in the closet forever to match with what his family or society wants. or what if yukiko actually didn't want to run the inn? should she devote her life to that because her family wants her to even if she's miserable, just so that the employees don't have to find another job? are you nothing but a slave to your community and family? that none of this happens and the characters are happy with the status quo is a huge dodge of the question "what should i do if what i want isn't what everyone else wants." in persona 4, the answer is "just change your way of thinking and it'll be okay!" that's what people are critical of, because that's intensely conservative and can be an extremely unhealthy approach.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:09
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Persona is good
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Dec 2, 2017 04:18
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I really liked the Persona 4 anime. It's still in my 'best anime based off of video games' list with Utawarerumono and Tales of the Abyss. I think there might have been one or two others but I can't remember them right this moment.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:26
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Ai is the true chaos path in p4
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Dec 2, 2017 04:26
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Getsuya posted:I really liked the Persona 4 anime. It's still in my 'best anime based off of video games' list with Utawarerumono and Tales of the Abyss. I think there might have been one or two others but I can't remember them right this moment. fate stay series is technically based off games. So is Clannad. The Sengoku Basara series is my guilty pleasure.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:30
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Getsuya posted:I really liked the Persona 4 anime. It's still in my 'best anime based off of video games' list with Utawarerumono and Tales of the Abyss. I think there might have been one or two others but I can't remember them right this moment. it had some pretty goo d moments
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Dec 2, 2017 04:34
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