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Can we just set the whole nebula on fire.
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Dec 3, 2017 04:57
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:53 |
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All my years of experience watching TV & movies says yes! 5 minutes of reading astronomy textbooks says no 
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Dec 3, 2017 05:00
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Not Alex posted:There's no reason not to hang out at the pit-rag JP. We can flee if an overwhelming foe arrives, but we don't have to worry whether the jump is clear when ships enter the system if we maintain a presence. This.
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Dec 3, 2017 05:35
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Ah, hubris. For actually commentary: Y'all are gonna want to pull back to the JP which we can reinforce if need be or make a combat jump out if we also need to. We just demonstrated that we cant really hold their JP in system but we might as well try to contest ours. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 05:39
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SavageGentleman posted:I'm still a bit confused by the idea of holding the Pit right now, without any knowledge about the extent of the enemy territory, their ressources and overall fleet size. Yeah, but the thing is, if the crabs have better ships (they do), more ships than us and Terra combined (probably) and the slightest hint of competence (gently caress knows), then humanity is doomed whatever we do. So, the only plan it's worth making for that sort of situation is practicing gymnastics so you can bend over and kiss your arse goodbye.
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Dec 3, 2017 06:21
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We might be fine if we can engage them outside of a nebula. If they are specced for nebula only fighting then their max speed is likely what we already have seen and they likely will have lovely or non existent anti-missile capabilities. Those rail guns don't mean poo poo if they cant see or track the salvos. However since their entire response has basically been a defense of territory they might not pursue us outside the nebula. Also, as an aside. Unless the star map fuckery proves to be a constant we should understand that as a semi-realistic space game there are a metric fuckton of systems out there and giving up on one should not be the end of the world. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 06:24
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There is one reason not to try to hold the Pit side of the Pit-Ranginui JP: to try and keep it secret from the enemy. If we aren't seen vanishing from a particular region of space they won't know where our entry point is. However, this is assuming they haven't already surveyed the system, and I find that pretty unlikely. They know how jump drives work, presumably, since we've seen pretty advanced combat jump drive tech from them; that means they should also know how to find jump points, and they've held the Pit for long enough to build at least one base there. So yeah, I agree, I think we should station our fleet in the Pit near the Ranginui JP, close enough that we can retreat if we see an overwhelming force headed our way. We should also immediately begin mining and fortifying the Ranginui end of the JP. And of course we should give the Terrans full information on the enemy's capabilities (though not so much of our own when possible) and specifically warn them about those spinal plasma lances. At the moment we want Terra to win their next fight because we really do not want a jump-capable hostile alien cruiser squadron rampaging through Nova Sol and potentially entering Sol itself.
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Dec 3, 2017 06:28
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Telsa Cola posted:Also, as an aside. Unless the star map fuckery proves to be a constant we should understand that as a semi-realistic space game there are a metric fuckton of systems out there and giving up on one should not be the end of the world. The Pit is two jumps from Sol (by two routes, even), which still has the vast majority of our people, industry, research facilities, etc. If we cede it, we come an awful lot closer to humanity being turbofucked.
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Dec 3, 2017 06:44
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sebmojo posted:Terra is being given a change to prove itself. Tell them everything. I'm presuming you meant this as "Let us give Terra the benefit of the doubt, a chance to prove that they are better than they have been" But it came across more as "Let's make a change, let them prove themselves; Here are some alien dreadnoughts, enjoy your thunderdome" ...which I am OK with 
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Dec 3, 2017 06:52
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TheWetFish posted:I'm presuming you meant this as "Let us give Terra the benefit of the doubt, a chance to prove that they are better than they have been" Honestly that's how I've been viewing this situation. I'm sure the Terrans will win, but they're probably going to suffer catastrophic losses given that they don't have Martian Spirit like we do. And I'm A-OK with that result. They've been jerking us around ever since the war with the IC, let's see how much they like it when the ball's in their court.
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Dec 3, 2017 07:07
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Dr. Snark posted:Honestly that's how I've been viewing this situation. I'm sure the Terrans will win, but they're probably going to suffer catastrophic losses given that they don't have Martian Spirit like we do. Exactly. You want to tread the void like heroes? This is what it takes. e: though yeah, i meant chance, haha
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Dec 3, 2017 07:08
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Cathode Raymond posted:I think having to fight outside the nebula using missiles and shields is a bad idea because they might have crazy missiles and shields. Very much this. The assumption that the tech and design difference is more in our favour outside of nebula seems a bit unfounded... We can be fairly sure that The Pit isn't their home system, so maybe they aren't really nebula specialized, but rather they just out-tech us. This would also explain why the reinforcement have been piecemeal and scarce: most of their poo poo is missiles and they just send their nebula-capable designs. In light of this, I say hold in the Pit, but retreat to our JP until we have reinforcements.
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Dec 3, 2017 09:02
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On the merits of defending our side of the Ranganui Point. On the Subject of Shields Mars: We have shields, right now we designed Nu-Fleet to have them, as mentioned by myself already the Pollux & Hellas have alot of defense tied up in them with the Pollux having 45 Shield Units & the Hellas/Ranganui having 58. By flying these ships in the Nebula we can't withstand hits as well. Considering the alien ships already outech us, we are gimping our defensive abilities by sitting in the Nebula. Fart Krabs: Maybe the Aliens do have super shields... however they cannot power them up until the transit out of the Nebula... this means as long as they don't break the gate camp we don't have to worry about their shield quality. We do know they have heavy armor, which is heavier than ours atm. On the Subject of Missiles Mars: People seem to forget we have missile ships, the Revolution & Taiaha have the armament either entirely or primarily in missiles... our missiles are also much better than they were in the IC War with our shorter range Torpedo's these ships will be able to contribute more in the fight than a pair of anemic 15cm lasers or just as a lightly armored brick. We haven't been able to see them in action because we can't loving use them, its a waste dragging these ships around. Even the Hellas Dreadnought has a missile battery that will not be that useful in the Nebula. The Locklears also have fighter bombers which are even more useless in a Nebula because they can't even use their speed due to light armor... Fart Krabs: Maybe the Aliens have missile batteries... however due to the IC War we have invested heavily in our AMM defense, and the fact we have shields makes our fleet alot more durable in a missile slugfest than it was in the last generation. While their missile tech is likely more advanced, we have invested in trying to mitigate missile attacks. So my defense proposal is thus... 1. We leave a small destroyer picket force on the far side of the Pit Jump Point, a couple Azrael's and a Gale running its Active 24/7 they act as an early warning speedbump so we won't be surprised when ~1,000,000~ tons of Krab meat jump into Ranginui. 2. Behind the point we assemble a strong picket force of Triton Fleet & Dreadnoughts, with a handful of the least damaged ships of PIT Expedition. We draw up some designs for stationary missile platforms/mines which we can use to secure the point. The plasma batteries on some of the older ships might be pretty good in this situation, ditto the Gauss PD boats who might be able to sandpaper ships that pop in at point blank. 3. Maybe send design a cloaked salvager? which can sneak into the system and maybe salvage the wrecks therein undetected without risking a full expedition. 4. We also should *gag* make a detailed defense plan for Ranginui and Nova Sol with the Terrans, also make discussion on how to divide potential alien wreck spoils amongst other things. 5. We begin building some Nebula optimized designs, for a more serious push into the PIT and hold the alien jump point. I.e ships with more armor better fire controls etc. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 09:13
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Jack2142 posted:So my defense proposal is thus... All sounding pretty good for me, so throw a vote behind this lot. A few pages back Saros mentioned rush-production of some nebula variants of our cruisers and destroyers, so 5 at least is sorted. Also, if we haven't already, we really ought to start researching better ECCM to help fix our garbage hit rates.
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Dec 3, 2017 09:51
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Jack2142 posted:On the merits of defending our side of the Ranganui Point. Yes, this is a good plan. If it's tactically advantageous to transit our larger force based on what the picket sees, we can. sebmojo fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 09:56
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Do we know how fast the fartcrabs can move outside of the nebula? If they have sufficiently strong engines and sensors they might be able to dictate a more favorable range for their weapons. I haven't played in a while but I remember ECM having a severe impact on missile lock ranges as well. We might have better odds in the nebula because it tends to equalize a lot of the tech advantage advanced races have.
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Dec 3, 2017 09:58
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The pit aliens are attacking Nova sol. Terrans will probably win and then the salvage is theirs while we can't even salvage the ships we defeated. We need to build nebula designs and retake this loving system.
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Dec 3, 2017 10:03
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Plek posted:Do we know how fast the fartcrabs can move outside of the nebula? If they have sufficiently strong engines and sensors they might be able to dictate a more favorable range for their weapons. I haven't played in a while but I remember ECM having a severe impact on missile lock ranges as well. We might have better odds in the nebula because it tends to equalize a lot of the tech advantage advanced races have. We know they can dictate range, because their top speed inside the nebula is faster than our top speed outside it (except for the Azraels and strike craft, which ain't gonna win a fight on their own).
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Dec 3, 2017 10:03
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Plek posted:Do we know how fast the fartcrabs can move outside of the nebula? If they have sufficiently strong engines and sensors they might be able to dictate a more favorable range for their weapons. I haven't played in a while but I remember ECM having a severe impact on missile lock ranges as well. We might have better odds in the nebula because it tends to equalize a lot of the tech advantage advanced races have. Correct ECM advantages cut missile fire control lock range by 10% per step; They're three ECM steps ahead of us. Nebula do indeed equalise a lot of tech advantages. If they do have missiles then their superior engines are presumably also in those missiles, so we could expect them to outrage us, have very effective hit rates and also our own AMM to be ineffective TheWetFish fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 10:09
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Affi posted:The pit aliens are attacking Nova sol. Refitting might take months. Anyways, I have said my piece, I guess if decent missile ships turn up Ill be wrong but Im going all in on their main fleets only being designed for nebula fights. Otherwise they massively out tech us and I doubt Saros would gently caress us over like that. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 10:55
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Either way, we're about to find out whether they're nebula focused or not when they jump into Nova Sol. On that note, we really want to observe that fight, preferably with active sensors. I don't know if the Farseer is capable of doing that. Do we have any ships in Rangi that could jump to Nova Sol to observe? Hell, our Dreadnoughts are about to arrive in Rangi, how long would it take them to go to Nova Sol through Rangi instead of to the Pit JP, in case Earth requests help? I mean we do still have a mutual defense clause in the treaty.
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Dec 3, 2017 11:54
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Anta posted:Either way, we're about to find out whether they're nebula focused or not when they jump into Nova Sol. are you saying our observation ship the Far See-er: can't see? e: b/c if so i'm writing a strongly worded communigram to my arcology lead comrade
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Dec 3, 2017 11:59
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sebmojo posted:are you saying our observation ship the Far See-er: can't see? Turns out it's named the Farseeker. And is a survey ship, so it's really good at looking at rocks and gravitational phenomena. Less so at observing battles. (I don't think it has active sensors, and not that much in the way of passives).
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Dec 3, 2017 12:04
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Anta posted:Turns out it's named the Farseeker. And is a survey ship, so it's really good at looking at rocks and gravitational phenomena. Less so at observing battles. (I don't think it has active sensors, and not that much in the way of passives). The Farseeker is a Tangaroa-II class, which has an active sensor that can spot 350-ton ships out past three quarters of a million kilometres. She'll get a good view of the fight.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:24
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You know, I wonder where the jump points in the Graveyard lead given that the current jump graph is pretty grid-like. It'd be a shame if it lead to a fartcrab system.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:28
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Saros posted:
To clarify as there appears to be some confusion. The four ships in the shot just above are still combat capable and two are undamaged. Iron Duke has boarders and Nuclear apology is not combat capable without repairs.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:28
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Saros posted:To clarify as there appears to be some confusion. The four ships in the shot just above are still combat capable and two are undamaged. Iron Duke has boarders and Nuclear apology is not combat capable without repairs. When the Marine ships join up with the fleet, would we be able to shuttle some troops over to repel boarders? I mean obviously they won't get here in time for this one, but the Crabs seem pretty fond of boarding actions.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:40
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I am going to reiterate and amplify what was said above: If the Terrans win the Nova Sol fight and salvage lots of juicy alien hardware, while we abandon the Pit and don't salvage a drat thing from the fartcrabs, we may as well start a new LP because we just permanently ceded Terra the xeno tech advantage to go with their superior numbers, nullifying what was our major advantage- quality.
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Dec 3, 2017 14:34
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Jack2142 posted:On the merits of defending our side of the Ranganui Point. No. That's boring and bad. Why are you so eager to abandon the Pit when we're still winning? Jack2142 posted:Graveyard
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Dec 3, 2017 14:52
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Edit: Vote changed to plan Jack Tactical_Torpedo fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 15:17
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Edit: Double Post
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Dec 3, 2017 15:17
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LLSix posted:No. That's boring and bad. Why are you so eager to abandon the Pit when we're still winning? The plan still lets us hold the Pit. It calls for a fuckstack loitering on the Ranginui side of the jump point and some pickets on the Pit side, and the heavy mob can transit if what the crabs are sending at us looks beatable without missile support. I'd rather hold the Fortress jump point, but this seems like a decent enough compromise for now and we can revisit the plan once we've seen how the Terrans fare and our dreads have made it over.
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Dec 3, 2017 15:26
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Not getting that salvage would be at the very least a temporarily crippling blow to our power balance with the Terrans, and at the worst our defeat. Calling for a retreat is worse than calling for more comms.
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Dec 3, 2017 15:44
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RA Rx posted:Not getting that salvage would be at the very least a temporarily crippling blow to our power balance with the Terrans, and at the worst our defeat. Hey now I only added a communication attempt after they went beyond the reach of my prime communicator, a 45cm spinal laser with the firing stud taped down. I was firmly in the shoot first camp back when people were trying to get us all killed. This bit didn't cost us anything. And yes I agree, we must hold the Pit for the sweet sweet salvage.
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Dec 3, 2017 15:59
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Camping the Rangi -> Pit JP doesn't mean giving up on the Pit, it means that we have a safety net, nothing is preventing us from sending in salvagers and combat craft. Well, unless the fartcrabs start camping too but for now they do just fine camping on the Unknown -> Pit JP, which also allows them not to split their blocking force. Also if they jump towards nova-sol they will demonstrate that they don't really care for humans getting salvage compared to just getting their killing on.
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Dec 3, 2017 16:04
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The biggest problem I see with abandoning the pit is the complications it introduces for defending Sol. The Pit is a bottleneck, and if we decide on some joint defense thing with UT, then the defense of Nova Sol will fall mostly on UT who are unproven against these aliens or against anyone, and it will not matter if we successfully defend Ranguini if UT fails to defend Nova Sol because the aliens can transit from Nova Sol to Sol and at that point
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Dec 3, 2017 17:44
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While that is true our blocking force is unable to actually block unless sitting on a jump point, the fartcrabs are faster and demonstrably willing to abandon live prey to go and jump further in the enemy sector as they perceive it. So there's no blocking the fartcrab prime hole until we can safely advance a force through the system to block it without the concern of them going around it and messing with our homeworlds.
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Dec 3, 2017 18:04
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I feel people are getting overly hung up on "abandoning" the pit. A tactical retreat from the pit currently is just common sense, it doesn't mean we won't come back in a couple weeks to a couple months. Nobody is (currently) suggesting strategically abandoning the pit, and only time and more information will tell us if we can hold it in the long term. Right now we cannot hold it. Sitting on the Pit-Unkown jump point is outright suicide, we will have 0 warning what is coming through until 10 50kt dreads jump us. We've got lucky until now (as per usual), but we've still taken significant loses and general attrition. We need to fall back and regroup. And no it isn't going to be the end of the world if Terra gets a few wrecks, they already have juicy poo poo in Ranginui anyway, or have you forgotten that? So count that as another vote for Plan Jack Pharnakes fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 18:27
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Another for Jack’s plan. The fleet needs to recuperate before it fights again, and it’s likely we’re about to get another level of engine tech from the Rangi artifacts. Let’s do some refits and repairs and head back.
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Dec 3, 2017 18:41
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:53 |
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I don't like plan Jack cause it has our entire force make more ungated jumps. Having the the undamaged parts of the task force remain in the Pit is functionally the same but with one less jump.
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Dec 3, 2017 20:16
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