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mrchinchin25 posted:Fantastic graph! 
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Dec 4, 2017 16:31
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I'm baffled by the amounts on the funding tracker over the last few days and apparently I'm not the only one.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:32
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FailureToReport posted:Derek Smart was right. 
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Dec 4, 2017 16:33
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SomethingJones posted:I'm baffled by the amounts on the funding tracker over the last few days and apparently I'm not the only one. I have spoken to THREE credible sources who have said, what they've said in the past: It's bullshit, and EVERYONE in the company knows it. ----------------
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Dec 4, 2017 16:34
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D_Smart posted:I have spoken to THREE credible sources who have said, what they've said in the past: It's bullshit, and EVERYONE in the company knows it. I always thought it was weird when people would flaunt the funding milestones on Reddit and RSI forums, I mean, it's a funding tracker run by the company the funding affects either positively or catastrophically, with zero sources provided to add credibility, how do you just take that at face value?
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Dec 4, 2017 16:37
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FailureToReport posted:I always thought it was weird when people would flaunt the funding milestones on Reddit and RSI forums, I mean, it's a funding tracker run by the company the funding affects either positively or catastrophically, with zero sources provided to add credibility, how do you just take that at face value? Because there are actually rules about claiming that you have more money than you do. Of course, we're in a time period when a bunch of fucknuts noticed that there's few people watching the rules. Just keep collecting the statements of people using the funding tracker to judge whether they're buying things or not.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:41
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FailureToReport posted:I always thought it was weird when people would flaunt the funding milestones on Reddit and RSI forums, I mean, it's a funding tracker run by the company the funding affects either positively or catastrophically, with zero sources provided to add credibility, how do you just take that at face value? I think the strangest thing about it is that there has not been a single hour since 2012 where someone wasn't buying jpegs.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:43
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If I were a lazy webdev, I'd just log the money on the tracker soon as the user presses 'checkout'. Waiting for paypal callbacks and actual payments to be processed is a pain. Someone could test this at night if they wanted with a couple completionist packages in the cart.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:44
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At this point the tracker is only there to reinforce the public image of CIG as a healthy and going concern so the backers don't get spooked, stop paying for jpegs and demand refunds. They can't get rid of it, and they can't risk having it show a zero bucks day or a significant downward trend. It's kinda loving weird and crazy when you think about it but then what about star citizen isn't really strange.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:44
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alphabettitouretti posted:At this point the tracker is only there to reinforce the public image of CIG as a healthy and going concern so the backers don't get spooked, stop paying for jpegs and demand refunds. They can't get rid of it, and they can't risk having it show a zero bucks day or a significant downward trend. It's kinda loving weird and crazy when you think about it but then what about star citizen isn't really strange. That's all the tracker was ever for. There's a sizable amount of weirdos who get joy from being the guy who gets CIG over another funding milestone, and seeing something that says "look, the entire community is helping!" spurs people to spend a little more than they would have, and shows that no really the company is fine everybody!
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Dec 4, 2017 16:47
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D_Smart posted:I have spoken to THREE credible sources who have said, what they've said in the past: It's bullshit, and EVERYONE in the company knows it. Me, myself and I.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:51
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ManofManyAliases posted:Me, myself and I. how would you explain the funding tracker, moma
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Dec 4, 2017 16:52
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I'm not buying into the idea that CIG is providing information which doesn't hold up to scrutiny in order to promote income.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:54
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alphabettitouretti posted:At this point the tracker is only there to reinforce the public image of CIG as a healthy and going concern so the backers don't get spooked, stop paying for jpegs and demand refunds. They can't get rid of it, and they can't risk having it show a zero bucks day or a significant downward trend. It's kinda loving weird and crazy when you think about it but then what about star citizen isn't really strange. I heard a few weeks ago that they are planning to get rid of it when the new website goes live. We'll see if they actually do that or not. I hope they do it, because it would be hilarious. Then again, seeing as it's their #1 weapon in giving backer confidence, it is highly unlikely that they will remove it. Note, they've been saying this for years now. This is Sandi on the record about it. On "deceptive sales practices" FF to @ 18:15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99klyzqPOLQ On "taking the funding counter down" FF to 6:57 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXGsz0ZoduY ----------------
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Dec 4, 2017 16:55
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Daztek posted:how would you explain the funding tracker, moma IT'S SHITE -- ALL OF IT. And furthermore.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:57
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Dusty Lens posted:I'm not buying into the idea that CIG is providing information which doesn't hold up to scrutiny in order to promote income. This is the most transparent development ever. Haters will hate.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:57
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C-Bangin' it 
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D_Smart posted:I heard a few weeks ago that they are planning to get rid of it when the new website goes live. We'll see if they actually do that or not. I hope they do it, because it would be hilarious. Then again, seeing as it's their #1 weapon in giving backer confidence, it is highly unlikely that they will remove it. This is how you call it ladies and gentlemen.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:57
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ManofManyAliases posted:IT'S SHITE -- ALL OF IT. You can probably abbreviate that to ALT-F.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:59
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ManofManyAliases posted:IT'S SHITE -- ALL OF IT. nice dodge
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Dec 4, 2017 16:59
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I'd keep the tracker artificially low to exploit the cultist fears of SC ever looking bad.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:59
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ManofManyAliases posted:Me, myself and I. You have a hit rate worse than Derek Smart. Beet Wagon posted:That's all the tracker was ever for. There's a sizable amount of weirdos who get joy from being the guy who gets CIG over another funding milestone, and seeing something that says "look, the entire community is helping!" spurs people to spend a little more than they would have, and shows that no really the company is fine everybody! Yeah, but it hits deceptive practices if someone uses it to make a decision on a purchase. You'll note how copper fit doesn't talk about any of the properties of copper weave and instead pins on 'odour reduction' over the woo about magnetic fields. Misleading people is still a no-no commercially, although there's obviously a huge grey area in advertising being trash and the contract being the thing you read. We're hitting new levels of backlog debt (thanks Toops) that only underlines that every year and driver release puts them further into technical debt. Land last week. Power armor this week. We can literally start ticking off the science-fiction tropes as they attempt to sell more promissory notes for fun. At this point they're painting themselves into a harder corner that is entirely mediated by the point where the people with the cash smell a rat. And again, I wouldn't overlook the people that are _housebound_ being a hell of a backbone for their funding aspirations; I knew a few people with fairly serious disabilities playing Eve. Dusty Lens posted:I'm not buying into the idea that CIG is providing information which doesn't hold up to scrutiny in order to promote income. Ordinarily I'd agree, but we're invoking the idea that CiG are competent enough to know the law, and not greedy enough to attempt anything cynical like 'massaging the numbers'. I'm not so sure anymore, because I really believe that this is going to end up in the dumbfuck defense. "I really tried, but $166 million isn't enough to make a game that big" Now making the game _bigger_ has a more strategic angle.  Hav fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 17:00
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OhDearGodNo posted:I decided to make this into a graph. It's editable so I can update it every 6 months or so with about 5 min of effort. 
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Dec 4, 2017 17:01
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Seems unlikely the tracker will be going anywhere soon unless they are going to make 3.0 the MVP and try to launch Star Citizen as some sort of finished product (lol). That would allow them to move from "it's a pledge, donate now" to "you're purchasing, buy now" and they could legitimately claim the tracker was no longer necessary since the crowd funding portion is over.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:01
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alphabettitouretti posted:Seems unlikely the tracker will be going anywhere soon unless they are going to make 3.0 the MVP and try to launch Star Citizen as some sort of finished product (lol). That would allow them to move from "it's a pledge, donate now" to "you're purchasing, buy now" and they could legitimately claim the tracker was no longer necessary since the crowd funding portion is over. They become instantly liable for delivery times for actual goods at that point. They're really stretching things in Europe at the moment. Actually selling goods changes the whole thing in subtle and exciting ways. IMO. They'll launch the MVP when their funding attempts stop working.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:05
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Daztek posted:how would you explain the funding tracker, moma he said it was a simulation and by that I'd guess he means somebody plugged a bunch of lovely formulas in an excel spreadsheet as a predictive model of revenue to be used as an easily controlled marketing tool
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Dec 4, 2017 17:05
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Solarin posted:he said it was a simulation and by that I'd guess he means somebody plugged a bunch of lovely formulas in an excel spreadsheet as a predictive model of revenue to be used as an easily controlled marketing tool subsumption???
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Dec 4, 2017 17:07
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big nipples big life posted:I think the strangest thing about it is that there has not been a single hour since 2012 where someone wasn't buying jpegs. There was a 1 or 2 hour window with no sales a couple of years ago, it seemed obvious the tracker had broken as it rebounded with extra when it came back, but I'm not keen on reading hundreds of my old terrible posts to find it, you'd have to be crazy to want to do that.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:08
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Hav posted:Ordinarily I'd agree, but we're invoking the idea that CiG are competent enough to know the law, and not greedy enough to attempt anything cynical like 'massaging the numbers'. I'm not so sure anymore, because I really believe that this is going to end up in the dumbfuck defense. At the risk of exposing my sources I'm going to suggest that if there's anything CIG is extremely competent at it's going to be the law. By virtue of their proliferation of shell companies alone they've bodies on board that are proficient at tax and company law and I'll bet that no small portion of their business model is based on an understanding of what they're actually responsible for with their particular form of income solicitation. I've no doubt that they're carefully monitoring the status of laws that pertain to how they bring in money, what they actually need to deliver with that money and how that money is taxed in order to avoid undue scrutiny. Star Citizen is routinely noted as being the most successful crowd funding campaign of all time and I'm certain that the laws that govern how such a system operates are as crouched in untested novelty. My source was the dog that died so that's actually kind of sad OhDearGodNo posted:I decided to make this into a graph. It's editable so I can update it every 6 months or so with about 5 min of effort. This graph is amazing and you are amazing.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:10
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Hav posted:They become instantly liable for delivery times for actual goods at that point. Yeah, and why change what's working? They've managed to get this far on wishes and dreams, why not continue to string along the most gullible morons while failing to deliver anything of substance.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:10
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Dec 4, 2017 17:11
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OhDearGodNo posted:I decided to make this into a graph. It's editable so I can update it every 6 months or so with about 5 min of effort. 
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Dec 4, 2017 17:14
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AP posted:There was a 1 or 2 hour window with no sales a couple of years ago, it seemed obvious the tracker had broken as it rebounded with extra when it came back, but I'm not keen on reading hundreds of my old terrible posts to find it, you'd have to be crazy to want to do that. I do remember that though, there were a couple pages on it when the tracker flatlined and we all got excited. The spike when it came "back online" was super suspicious and I think for a lot of posters cemented the fact that the funding tracker is completely faked. It was the first time they had showed zero "income" for even an hourly period in like three or four years. Very strange.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:15
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Hav posted:They become instantly liable for delivery times for actual goods at that point. They won't. And they can't. That would hit them with a huge delivery liability. So I think that they're going to keep things as-is, while promoting it as crowd-funded early access. They've already laid the ground work for that, and Chris already hinted at it in several interviews these past months. ----------------
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Dec 4, 2017 17:16
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alphabettitouretti posted:Seems unlikely the tracker will be going anywhere soon unless they are going to make 3.0 the MVP and try to launch Star Citizen as some sort of finished product (lol). That would allow them to move from "it's a pledge, donate now" to "you're purchasing, buy now" and they could legitimately claim the tracker was no longer necessary since the crowd funding portion is over. It's CIG, man. They don't need any excuse thicker than "We felt it was time to highlight the fact that we're hyperfocused on getting SQ42 out the door to you" to take down the tracker. They could come out and say they took it down because it was getting in the way of the new "play now" button and idiots would eat that poo poo up.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:17
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AP posted:There was a 1 or 2 hour window with no sales a couple of years ago, it seemed obvious the tracker had broken as it rebounded with extra when it came back, but I'm not keen on reading hundreds of my old terrible posts to find it, you'd have to be crazy to want to do that. I remember that. Also there was that time when the tracker was so suspicious that it was immediately obvious. They later issued (by way of Lesnick) a statement saying it was a "glitch". ----------------
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Dec 4, 2017 17:17
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Sarsapariller posted:Sick 360 noscopes at 5fps That was a hilarious read, your sacrifice is appreciated.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:20
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Dusty Lens posted:At the risk of exposing my sources I'm going to suggest that if there's anything CIG is extremely competent at it's going to be the law. By virtue of their proliferation of shell companies alone they've bodies on board that are proficient at tax and company law and I'll bet that no small portion of their business model is based on an understanding of what they're actually responsible for with their particular form of income solicitation. Again, personal experience, but this is entirely common and the _normal method_ of doing business in the UK, especially where particularly litigious and rapacious 'special' friends in a slightly more laissez-faire economic trading zone exist. The first lawsuit collapses the shell under limited liability status and the Directors walk away from all debts except governmental. Ortwin's experience of movie math is kind of a bonus, but he seems to be vaguely unaware of European law from the one or two mails we've seen from him that attempt to indicate that the statutory framework doesn't exist. Dusty Lens posted:I'm certain that the laws that govern how such a system operates are as crouched in untested novelty. Nah, commerce is commerce, and the passage and flow of money has been scrutinised since the fall of the Roman empire. What the lawyers are claiming is the usual thing that advocates claim, "All upsides! No downsides! Completely legal!" right up until all the appeals run out. Prisons are full of innocent people, after all. What's missing is a desire to actually go after something that is, mostly, a pool of money that people are willingly, and with all informed consent, throwing cash into. There's no real damage, which is one of the reasons that they will give refunds at the same time as saying that they don't. Speculation on my part, I don't have sources, just experience.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:27
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I stand by my sources.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:28
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In my son's social sciences class they got asked to give examples of out-of-the-ordinary internet communities for study (and the teacher asked them to please not pick 4chan). As the good boy he is, he mentions "the fans of that scam game, Star Citizen", which was immediately met by "that's not a scam! what proof do you have?" from someone in his class. Turns out he's got a cultist in his high school class. I'm prepping him to mention Derek Smart in any remotely relevant context. This could be good.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:29
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But really I don't know anything about financial arbitration I just imagine that they spent a lot of time huddled around asking each other what they can get away with according to the letter of the law.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:32
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