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bartolimu posted:Per the posted article: Who loving cares if it has no negative or positive impacts on the quality of the wine? Do you foist this kind of irrelevant poo poo onto e every bottle you drink?
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Nov 10, 2017 04:23
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Wine is very political.
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Nov 10, 2017 07:08
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Overwined posted:Who loving cares if it has no negative or positive impacts on the quality of the wine? Do you foist this kind of irrelevant poo poo onto e every bottle you drink? No, but I do foist relevant poo poo on people who are just plain wrong and try to call me out for lack of "diligence." Overwined posted:If you are diligent you'll notice that many if not most biodynamic producers opt out of the whole horn full of poo poo stuff and that the more ceremonial aspects of Biodynamicism are NOT required for AB certification. I read the whole article, which is plenty diligent thanks. They literally are required to make a credible effort to do that whole horn full of poo poo stuff. They can't opt out. And that's dumb, in a system that is otherwise good and produces wines that many people agree are better than conventional ones. It's perfectly reasonable to call that out in a thread devoted to wine discussion. If you disagree, feel free to quote your local reiki shaman's hot take on why three parts per billion of month-old cow poo poo aligns the grapes' chakras to the ley lines or something.
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Nov 10, 2017 07:36
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Back in my intern days I walked into a cellar hungover and late and expected to be told off. Insteadeveryone was standing around watching the winemaker's wife hug a tank. I quietly asked another cellar guy what the gently caress was going on and he said "reiki". I said, "I have no idea what that means, but I am going to grab a coffee and go set up the crush pad." I still don't know what reiki is, but if you hug every tank every day you're in a good position to notice things like reduction, temperature stratification, glycol settings and functionality, fermentation kinetic, and if you happen to fix the wines chakras while you're at it, then maybe the wine will taste better with its chakras fixed.
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Nov 10, 2017 10:01
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nervana posted:I am visiting NYC for the weekend and want to buy a nice bottle of wine for a couple in their late 30's. They live in Chicago (as do I) and travel often, and they enjoy wine, so they've probably tried a whole bunch, but are not wine snobs. Is there anything in New York that I can buy that is decent and not readily available in Chicago? I am thinking under $100, but can go over that if needed. It doesn't have to be rare or anything, but I just want to get them something nice and show that I put some thought into it. Rather late but doesn't the North fork of Long Island produce a bunch of interesting wine? I once had an awesome (skunky) sparkling red from there. I bet it's much easier to find that sort of thing in NYC than Chicago
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Nov 11, 2017 04:28
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Looks like wine got even older still: Earliest evidence of wine found in giant, 8,000-year-old jars http://flip.it/LtGE_b And it looks like the area around modern-day Georgia is still the cradle of viticulture. Also, looks like some regrettable vindication for those filthy hipsters and their beloved Orange Wine.
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Nov 14, 2017 00:01
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I've followed Patrick McGovern's work for quite a while. He's a good archaeologist, and this is an awesome find. Highly specialized work like large-scale winemaking takes a degree of social complexity we've been hesitant to ascribe to people that ancient, but it's getting increasingly clear people were more organized much earlier than we thought. That's cool from an archaeology perspective, but not really relevant to this thread. I still haven't tried an orange wine I liked, though. So I for one am glad for several millennia of innovation and selective breeding.
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Nov 14, 2017 04:11
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There's a theory that humanity became more settled/organized and began organized agriculture as a way to ensure consistent access to alcohol (primarily beer, but wine appears to be a possibility too now).
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Nov 14, 2017 15:09
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PT6A posted:There's a theory that humanity became more settled/organized and began organized agriculture as a way to ensure consistent access to alcohol (primarily beer, but wine appears to be a possibility too now). It's a bit of a chicken-or-egg thing. Alcohol may have been a reason for people embracing agriculture; it was also a major component in allowing many people to live in close proximity without killing one another. Less glibly, the adoption of agriculture seems to follow after growing social complexity. People were building huge monuments and had a semi-consistent ritual system in place for centuries, but population couldn't concentrate in large numbers (probably due to food availability). Agriculture was one thing that allowed permanent settlement, but even that was utilized more like seasonal gardens for small, semi-nomadic groups. The turning point was the invention of pottery, which allowed for long-term storage protected from the elements and pests. Then you get things like Mesopotamian temples - grain banks that stored, loaned, and controlled the excess crops. That established an economic system (with a side of religion) and bam, civilization was born. What place alcohol use has in that development is extremely hard to detect, but it seems likely humans had occasional access to alcohol far earlier, like the animals mentioned in that article. Modern day hunter-gatherers in areas without tons of fruit harvest honey and make mead. We probably found ways to ferment things as soon as we had a way to hold liquid for a few days - that could be pottery, which preserves really well, or things like large gourds, which don't. It's probably safest to assume if there are more than three people together anywhere at any time in history they're finding a way to get drunk. Speaking of drunk, is anyone interested in a write-up of the wineries I checked out in Temecula? There's some solid wine there, but I don't want to waste the time to type something up if nobody's interested.
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Nov 14, 2017 17:13
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I'm curious to take a leap into the natural wine trend, but I have no idea what to look for as there is no specific section for it at the local wine shop (they do have an organic section, but they're totally different animals, right?) and the bottles don't seem to be labeled as such... I suppose I could just ask the people working, but any recommendations here to start out with? Preferably a red and not something crazy expensive. emotive fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 17:16
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Possibly a can of worms question, there, emotive! Where are you located? If in the US, I'd likely suggest looking for some specific importers. Kermit Lynch tends to import more natural wines, though perhaps they're less explicitly part of the movement, but they are widely available. Jenny & Francois, FiFi's, Bliss, Louis/Dressner, Camille Riviere, Savio Soares, David Bowler, Polaner Selections, and Zev Rovine are all importers that I respect a lot. Oh, and Selection Massale, of course. If you'd like specific bottle recommendations, it'd be great to hear something about what you like as well as where you are - I'm sure there are some of us who can call a few good bottles in your market.
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Nov 14, 2017 18:12
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I need to buy a wine fridge, ideally one with around 40-50 bottle capacity. What's a good name to look for? Or alternatively, brands I should avoid?
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Nov 25, 2017 00:17
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Anyone here used a Coravin and want to share their experience?
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Nov 26, 2017 21:47
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone here used a Coravin and want to share their experience? I have only been served from them and was happy with it, but I've heard several others say that if you use it on the same cork many times, the hole eventually doesn't seal up again, because the needle hits the same spot every time.
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Nov 26, 2017 22:09
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Coca Koala posted:I need to buy a wine fridge, ideally one with around 40-50 bottle capacity. I forget the name, but Wine Berserkers has a pretty long thread on one brand that's horrible. I think it might be one that Costco carries, so be careful.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:11
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Steve Yun posted:Anyone here used a Coravin and want to share their experience? Many times. The wines will keep for 5-10 times longer than normal.
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Nov 27, 2017 02:48
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Kasumeat posted:Many times. The wines will keep for 5-10 times longer than normal. Absolutely. I've been using them since release in my restaurants, and they're invaluable for allowing me to pour high end wines without waste. I've had a few encounters with wines that obviously changed after extended time under argon gas, but for the most part the wines hold up extremely well for weeks or even months on end after being accessed.
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Nov 27, 2017 10:08
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Kasumeat posted:Many times. The wines will keep for 5-10 times longer than normal. What's normal in this comparison? Open, pour a glass and recork?
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Nov 27, 2017 10:20
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Crimson posted:Absolutely. I've been using them since release in my restaurants, and they're invaluable for allowing me to pour high end wines without waste. I've had a few encounters with wines that obviously changed after extended time under argon gas, but for the most part the wines hold up extremely well for weeks or even months on end after being accessed. This echoes my experience with them. Basically, if you think of a timer that starts when you first sink the needle into the cork that lasts about 14 days (on the conservative side) if you finish the bottle inside of that time frame, you should have no issues.
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Nov 27, 2017 16:25
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Ola posted:What's normal in this comparison? Open, pour a glass and recork? Yep. I agree 100% with the others. Two weeks is the point at which you will often see some development, and often they will stay sound for up to two or three months depending on the wine and ulage. Definitely not forever though, I tried a bottle that was Coravined for a year and it was totally oxidised. Edit: And if you're withdrawing multiple times, the deterioration will accelerate after each use. Kasumeat fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 18:37
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Kasumeat posted:Yep. I agree 100% with the others. Two weeks is the point at which you will often see some development, and often they will stay sound for up to two or three months depending on the wine and ulage. Definitely not forever though, I tried a bottle that was Coravined for a year and it was totally oxidised. I posted about this back in like 2013, but we trialed an early version of Coravin on some Chardonnay. We poured one glass out of 3 bottles using the Coravin and stored them with 3 "control" bottles for six months. In a blind tasting the winemaking team couldn't identify the Coravined bottles. Worth noting, these bottles had the highest grade of cork available from the supplier, were sampled with a brand new Coravin with a fresh needle and full gas cylinder, and were stored in ideal conditions.
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Nov 27, 2017 21:45
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In my case it was tasted next to a control as well, and the Coravin bottle was obvious. I think the message to take home here is the results can be outstanding, or not, so don't expect the bottles to last forever, even if they very well might.
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Nov 27, 2017 23:52
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Stitecin posted:I posted about this back in like 2013, but we trialed an early version of Coravin on some Chardonnay. We poured one glass out of 3 bottles using the Coravin and stored them with 3 "control" bottles for six months. In a blind tasting the winemaking team couldn't identify the Coravined bottles. The problem here is that the bottles weren't handled during the storage period. Or at least that's what I assume. I have tasted wines Coravined for a month that were travelling in reps' bag and you could totally detect the decay. If the bottles are not moved, I would assume there's nothing to cause the protective layer of gas to "unseal" from the top of the wine and allow it to drink in some O2.
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Nov 27, 2017 23:57
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So a more reliable solution for bars and restaurants is an Enomatic machine, like this: Home solution? Finish the bottle once opened, have shitloads more stored.
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Nov 28, 2017 00:11
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Ola posted:So a more reliable solution for bars and restaurants is an Enomatic machine, like this: Those things are expensive as gently caress. I think in a bar / restaurant setting a Coravin is superior for reasons above and beyond cost. I am partnered in a wine bar currently that features keg wines sealed under nitrogen and I have to say I am very impressed with the results. Selection is still a bit of an issue, but it's light years ahead of where it was just a few years ago. There are a ton of domestic options and a rapidly growing pool of import options. The system itself is relatively economical, the wines are generally had cheaper per ounce in keg, and shipping and carbon costs are drastically lower.
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Nov 28, 2017 01:05
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Yeah, it was a really half assed trial. These were prerelease wines bottled only a few months before the trial at like .4 Molecular SO2. We had a better trial planned, but I think everyone lost interest. We didn't end up buying one until like a year and a half later. It was a 10 year anniversary of a 100 point score and a vertical was being presented at a thing. We didn't have enough inventory of a couple of vintages to send back up bottles, so we used the Coravin to make sure the bottles that the owner brought to New York weren't flawed. He poured them 36 hours after I tasted them, I could have probably just opened them normally and recorked them. Luckily that thing came out of Sales & Marketing's budget and not Production's. It's probably still in its box in the cabinet under the tasting room sink where I left it. Ola posted:Home solution? Finish the bottle once opened, have shitloads more stored. This is the right answer.
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Nov 28, 2017 08:26
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I think that's the restaurant / wine bar answer, too. If you can't sell a 4 or 5 glasses of wine in a 2 week period, perhaps it's not the best idea to offer it out of the Coravin?
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Nov 28, 2017 17:40
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I popped the Marcel Lapierre Raisins Gaulois Beaujolais on Thanksgiving and was surprised I didn't really like it. Kinda bitter and harsh, but in a non-tannic way. However, light bodied and drinkable, my dad and I still finished it. Read a lot of hype that it's a bargain for the quality. Maybe I just don't like Morgon?
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Nov 28, 2017 20:26
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I like that wine a lot, especially with a light chill, in a tumbler, outside, on a warm day. I was going to ask if you like Beaujolais at all, but checked your post history and that's a yep. I don't find it typically Morgon, more like a decent nouveau. Lapierre's declared Morgon has a lot more structure/stuffing, if that makes sense. Darker toned fruit, more and tighter tannins, more body, maybe even more acid (though it drinks as if it has a little less, because there's much more there to balance).
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Nov 28, 2017 20:41
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Starting to get into a bunch of the European 2010s in my cellar now, and wow, am I going to miss this vintage. I wish I had the money a few years ago to buy more than I did. The quality of most producers' entry-level wines is just outstanding. It's sad to think that with climate change, we'll probably never see another vintage this uniformly excellent again, ever. 2015-2017 especially have all been monstrosities, and there's no reason to believe the trend will change.
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Dec 5, 2017 07:32
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pork never goes bad posted:Lapierre's declared Morgon has a lot more structure/stuffing, if that makes sense. Darker toned fruit, more and tighter tannins, more body, maybe even more acid (though it drinks as if it has a little less, because there's much more there to balance). I opened a Lapierre Morgon a few years ago at Thanksgiving and was very disappointed. I left it sitting in a decanter overnight and went back to it the next day and it was the best Beaujolais experience I have ever had. Those wines are very structured and take a long time to open up when young. Kasumeat posted:Starting to get into a bunch of the European 2010s in my cellar now, and wow, am I going to miss this vintage. I wish I had the money a few years ago to buy more than I did. The quality of most producers' entry-level wines is just outstanding. It's sad to think that with climate change, we'll probably never see another vintage this uniformly excellent again, ever. 2015-2017 especially have all been monstrosities, and there's no reason to believe the trend will change. Cracked a 375mL pf 2010 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshohle Riesling Auslese Goldkapsel for Thanksgiving and it was ridiculous. So much richness and density combined with so much acidity. I've enjoyed a lot of the 2015s I've had so far across Europe. I don't think they count as "monstrosities" the way that 2007 was in CdP or 2003 was. I think maybe a lot of wineries are starting to adjust their winemaking and vineyard practices to account for this new normal. consensual poster fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 09:00
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Valerie Plame Sandals posted:Cracked a 375mL pf 2010 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshohle Riesling Auslese Goldkapsel for Thanksgiving and it was ridiculous. So much richness and density combined with so much acidity. That's exactly the incredible nature of the 2010s: ripe, but with incredible acidity. It was a cool, sunny, and dry year, the holy grail. Germany was particularly high in quality because they had bad frost in the spring, so yields were minuscule. While I've had some decent reds from 2015s, the whites and been atrocious. And reds are very hit and miss. While visiting Oakland, I was really excited to see Dutraive's Clos de la Grand Cour for sale, my favourite Bojo producer's top bottling. Then I saw it was 15% (declared, meaning it's probably 15.9%). Not gonna chance $60 for fortified Fleurie, thanks. The entry-level stuff from warm climates made using native grapes which can take the heat has been better than usual—I've tasted more excellent $12 Toscana Rosso than usual lately—but pretty much everything else has been worse. 2016s are a little better, but not much. And everything I've heard about the 2017s so far has been "as hot as 2015, or hotter."
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Dec 5, 2017 16:39
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Kasumeat posted:That's exactly the incredible nature of the 2010s: ripe, but with incredible acidity. It was a cool, sunny, and dry year, the holy grail. Germany was particularly high in quality because they had bad frost in the spring, so yields were minuscule. Yikes. I haven't seen any Bojos that crazy. The few 2015s I've had (mostly from the Sunier brothers), were pretty ripe, but not unbalanced. I drink a lot of German wine and I wouldn't call either 2015 or 2016 atrocious, particularly 2016. Which European whites are you drinking that are bad? Burgundy?
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Dec 5, 2017 23:36
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Kasumeat posted:That's exactly the incredible nature of the 2010s: ripe, but with incredible acidity. It was a cool, sunny, and dry year, the holy grail. Germany was particularly high in quality because they had bad frost in the spring, so yields were minuscule. had some '15 charmes, csj, & griotte that were drinking really well; almost as strong potential as the '05 clos de beze & le chambertin that I had earlier this year.
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Dec 5, 2017 23:47
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Who wants to drink all this fresh stuff you guys are talking about? Check out a small sampling of some recent finds from a collector. The Corti Brothers is 1969. 1969 Ridge was Paul Draper's first vintage. This is all before Sutter Home realized White Zin was a goldmine, they were actually making good wine back in the day.
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Dec 6, 2017 01:46
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Valerie Plame Sandals posted:Yikes. I haven't seen any Bojos that crazy. The few 2015s I've had (mostly from the Sunier brothers), were pretty ripe, but not unbalanced. Granted, Germany is an exception. It's really the only one though (except maybe the UK?), being the coldest classic wine growing country in Europe. But even then, a lot of classic great vineyards are now too hot to be considered the best. I'll take obscure vineyards from Saar over Goldtropfchen or Wurzgarten these days. What I'm drinking that is for the most part too fat and lacking complexity lately: Loire first and foremost, Burgundy, Alsace, Austria, Alto Adige, Galicia, Hungary. Most of the other regions don't have their 2015s on the market here yet but I don't have high hopes. Hell, even here in Ontario, perhaps the coolest quality wine growing region in the world, our 2016s were widely acidified.
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Dec 6, 2017 05:55
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I have had buying a mixed case of birth year (2014) wine for my son in the back of my mind for a while, and am starting to realize that I have missed the boat. If anyone's bored and wants to suggest stuff for me to buy him please chime in. Ideally available online and deliverable to Sonoma County or within a short drive. (I already have a few magnums of the Napa Cab I made that vintage, so im thinking more about nonCalifornia.)
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Dec 22, 2017 15:50
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2014 is a poor vintage almost everywhere outside of California. However, Sauternes and Chablis are exceptional, and Champagne is decent, if perhaps too ripe a vintage to age the 20+ years you'll be looking for from all but the most long-lived bottlings. You should have no problem still finding these wines in the market, if they've even been released at all. Sauternes is probably your best bet, being the longest-lived of the three, and "the best vintage since the turn of the century."
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Dec 22, 2017 17:14
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Loire fared pretty well too. Some nice Vouvray or Savennieres should age nicely. But echoing Chablis in particular, the 2014s are on fire. So good.
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Dec 22, 2017 18:58
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Yeah, can't go very wrong with Chablis and Champagne. Teach him to like seafood in good time and he'll have a stunning 21st. I gave by brother a birth year magnum Chablis for his 18th (legal drinking age here) and he loves seafood. It had some cheesy, mushroomy flavours that would have nailed lobster thermidor. I do however think it got necked in somewhat unsophisticated circumstances. Get some bottles for yourself so you can sample it in advance and recommend pairings!
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Dec 22, 2017 20:08
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