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Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

cis autodrag posted:

Worse than that, not all strains of leftism are compatible with queer identities. There's plenty of tankies and strict Marxists out there who see being gay or trans as a silly diversion of the unoccupied bourgeoisie mind.

commies are the litterral worst

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The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Shaggar posted:

commies are the litterral worst

I mean, I'm a commie, but more of the star trek utopian kind rather than the maoist third worldist kind.

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Shaggar posted:

tankies are the litterral worst

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

cis autodrag posted:

I mean, I'm a commie, but more of the star trek utopian kind rather than the maoist third worldist kind.

so a fantasy you know is fantasy vs a fantasy born out of mental disorder. I can understand that





idk what tankies are

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Shaggar posted:

idk what tankies are

communists who are on the way to stalinist fascism

the name comes from the time the soviets sent tanks to suppress riots in hungary

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
oh so just regular commies then

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Sup, guys.

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?

cis autodrag posted:

I mean, I'm a commie, but more of the star trek utopian kind rather than the maoist third worldist kind.

I will worry about the factions on the left that are not down with the queers when they can do anything more than post screeds on the internet or make a food not bombs meeting somewhat uncomfortable.

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Sagebrush posted:

stalinist fascism

sagebrush no

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

ultravoices posted:

I will worry about the factions on the left that are not down with the queers when they can do anything more than post screeds on the internet or make a food not bombs meeting somewhat uncomfortable.
Most of the tankies I've ever run across were pretty well off, and they'll probably take their poo poo opinions on the subject with them when their "gently caress you, Dad" phase is over. I mean, hell, I've always been pretty liberal but I used to have some TERF-adjacent Bad Ideas about trans issues and a lot of other ones, largely informed by incredible self-loathing.

And even people who are ostensibly allies can be pretty lovely without even realizing it (one great thing about the last couple of months is that I'll probably never have to see that goddamn "human being doesn't mean gay!" Louis C.K. bit ever again). gently caress, even those of the tribe can be ultra-lovely about anything that isn't super specific to them--one of the most disheartening nights of my life was canvassing for NOH8 and getting assigned to the corner right by Tiger Heat.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


sorry to invade the thread with a stupid question but i can easily see google leading me to the wrong answers

i know what the "ia" in lgbtqia+ stand for, but beyond the strict english definition what do those actually mean?

Raere
Dec 13, 2007

Ciaphas posted:

sorry to invade the thread with a stupid question but i can easily see google leading me to the wrong answers

i know what the "ia" in lgbtqia+ stand for, but beyond the strict english definition what do those actually mean?

the a stands for asexual/agender and sometimes ally. Asexual means you have no interest in sex. You might do it but you don't derive pleasure from it. Agender means you don't identify with a gender. Commonly expressed as being androgynous. An ally is a cishet person that actively supports queer people.

the i stands for intersex which is a person with a sex body part that does not fit the typical characteristics of the two sexes. This can happen when there's a hormone imbalance and the person doesn't really physically resemble a female or a male. Controversially parents may choose which sex they want the baby to grow up as because they're kind of in between and could go either way.

Raere fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 7, 2017

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
ah yes the funy computer forum, obviously the best place to post this

i originally thought of myself as just another dumb idiot cis male but in the last two years and especially the last two months i've been noticing that i might actually be trans and a lot of that cis thought might just be repression from the environment and my upbringing (my family was fairly conservative and even as recently as 2015 i had to deal with a family member calling a trans person "transvestite" as an insult and deadnaming them intentionally)

it's kind of like running "gender defrag.exe" complete with "gently caress realized another repressed memory, starting over" and it will probably take about as long as the real one before i really know what the hell is going on in my dumb idiot brain


e: also i'm asexual. it feels weird to consider that under 'queer' though, but i guess that'll feel more normal eventually since i only really realized that a week ago

Raere
Dec 13, 2007

Zamujasa posted:

ah yes the funy computer forum, obviously the best place to post this

i originally thought of myself as just another dumb idiot cis male but in the last two years and especially the last two months i've been noticing that i might actually be trans and a lot of that cis thought might just be repression from the environment and my upbringing (my family was fairly conservative and even as recently as 2015 i had to deal with a family member calling a trans person "transvestite" as an insult and deadnaming them intentionally)

it's kind of like running "gender defrag.exe" complete with "gently caress realized another repressed memory, starting over" and it will probably take about as long as the real one before i really know what the hell is going on in my dumb idiot brain

You don't have a dumb idiot brain because you're questioning yourself. Every person questions their identity as some point, most people just don't want to say so out loud.

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar

Raere posted:

You don't have a dumb idiot brain because you're questioning yourself. Every person questions their identity as some point, most people just don't want to say so out loud.

oh the dumb idiot part isn't because of gender/sex poo poo, it's just a default feature

Triglav
Jun 2, 2007

IT IS HARAAM TO SEND SMILEY FACES THROUGH THE INTERNET
if it helps, you're probably not not queer

Ciaphas posted:

lgbtqia+

please, the alphabet soup is subject to 4% annual inflation. it's lgbtqiaap+ now

and avoid ppl who use glb and lg

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?

Ciaphas posted:

i know what the "ia" in lgbtqia+ stand for, but beyond the strict english definition what do those actually mean?

honestly the letters have gone through a couple of evolutions over time. i remember when q was questioning. all the gender and sex criminals have a place at the table.

intersex people are people with sexual or reproductive anatomy that doesn't fit into an easily defined category. for example, people with various degrees of androgen insensitivity might have XY chromosomes, but have a somewhat to mostly female body because their body doesn't respond to androgens in a normal way.

'cause the birth certificate needs an M or an F in it for society not to lose it's mind, even if the genitals or genetics are ambiguous (or not known! sometimes genetic weirdness doesn't hit until puberty) intersex people face a host of challenges which are adjacent to but not quite the same as a trans community.

A these days usually means asexual, which is a fairly new thing, and asexual people have come forth to educate the world about their identity. for most people who identify as asexual, it means a lack of sexual attraction to other people or some people use it to mean a lack of identification with a particular gender. A in older texts is going to refer to ally, tho.

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Zamujasa posted:

ah yes the funy computer forum, obviously the best place to post this

i originally thought of myself as just another dumb idiot cis male but in the last two years and especially the last two months i've been noticing that i might actually be trans and a lot of that cis thought might just be repression from the environment and my upbringing (my family was fairly conservative and even as recently as 2015 i had to deal with a family member calling a trans person "transvestite" as an insult and deadnaming them intentionally)

it's kind of like running "gender defrag.exe" complete with "gently caress realized another repressed memory, starting over" and it will probably take about as long as the real one before i really know what the hell is going on in my dumb idiot brain


e: also i'm asexual. it feels weird to consider that under 'queer' though, but i guess that'll feel more normal eventually since i only really realized that a week ago
Not A-shaming here, but have you considered that your lack of interest in and/or drive for sex might be a repressive reflex to being in a body you don't feel comfortable in? Again, no shaming or denialism, but if you're not comfortable in your own skin you're not going to be comfortable in anyone else's.

Or you may be Morrissey, in which case you can go piss up a rope.

And I can completely understand the family angle--my family wasn't particularly conservative or religious, but the day-to-day casual poo poo and my dad trying to beat his sexuality out of me kept me from being completely me for a long time.

At any rate, you've made a big step here and you should be proud of yourself. Reflect, explore and when poo poo gets bad--it almost certainly will--just try to remember that who you are and how you feel is not a matter of consensus. If you're not hurting anyone, then gently caress all and sundry.

If you have a local LGBTQ center, definitely check it out. There are people there who can help you through the rough spots and teach you how to get the next generation through their rough spots.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



Triglav posted:

please, the alphabet soup is subject to 4% annual inflation. it's lgbtqiaap+ now

wait when did we drop two Qs into one? also does P stand for pan because if so P crew represent

also hello thread I am a cis male who's been part of various aspects of the queer-alphabet-soup community (mostly through having a bunch of trans friends) for most of his life. I just wanted to drop in to say you are all cool and good people.

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Kazinsal posted:

wait when did we drop two Qs into one? also does P stand for pan because if so P crew represent
I think we're kinda folded into Queer, which is like the Hufflepuff of gender/sexual identity.

Triglav
Jun 2, 2007

IT IS HARAAM TO SEND SMILEY FACES THROUGH THE INTERNET
no you're right, i forgot the qq. it's lgbtqqiaap+ until next year

Raere
Dec 13, 2007

I'm a fan of using queer instead of LGBT++++++++++ because someone's always going to be left out if you use an acronym.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



Raere posted:

I'm a fan of using queer instead of LGBT++++++++++ because someone's always going to be left out if you use an acronym.

LGBT++++ would queer again

Triglav
Jun 2, 2007

IT IS HARAAM TO SEND SMILEY FACES THROUGH THE INTERNET
same re: queer, but only as an adjective

similar to "black community" vs "blacks", "hispanic people" vs "hispanics"

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar

Peeny Cheez posted:

Not A-shaming here, but have you considered that your lack of interest in and/or drive for sex might be a repressive reflex to being in a body you don't feel comfortable in? Again, no shaming or denialism, but if you're not comfortable in your own skin you're not going to be comfortable in anyone else's.
this is definitely a thought that recently crossed my mind, but i've noticed that even typical depictions of the act are offputting. so while it might change, for now at least, that's how it seems to be.

quote:

And I can completely understand the family angle--my family wasn't particularly conservative or religious, but the day-to-day casual poo poo and my dad trying to beat his sexuality out of me kept me from being completely me for a long time.
it sucks for me because i still live in my hometown. most of my family is within 10 or 15 miles. i've mostly gone dark or n/c with some of them for other reasons, though.

quote:

At any rate, you've made a big step here and you should be proud of yourself. Reflect, explore and when poo poo gets bad--it almost certainly will--just try to remember that who you are and how you feel is not a matter of consensus. If you're not hurting anyone, then gently caress all and sundry.

If you have a local LGBTQ center, definitely check it out. There are people there who can help you through the rough spots and teach you how to get the next generation through their rough spots.
i've been questioning this short of poo poo for years, but only in recent time have i actually seriously thought about any of it. and when i do, i feel like i'm still finding excuses. "i waited this long", or "what if i realize that isn't the case at all", and so on. poo poo that everyone tells me they've gone through, too.

i probably won't go to any center, at least not yet. it's a lot easier to talk about this poo poo online.

Raere
Dec 13, 2007

Triglav posted:

same re: queer, but only as an adjective

similar to "black community" vs "blacks", "hispanic people" vs "hispanics"

queers

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
structured queery language

OldAlias
Nov 2, 2013

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Zamujasa posted:

it sucks for me because i still live in my hometown. most of my family is within 10 or 15 miles. i've mostly gone dark or n/c with some of them for other reasons, though.
Don't know where you are, but my knee-jerk response is


Even if the place isn't completely unfriendly, it's easier to find out who you are when you aren't constantly subconsciously living up to what other people have come to expect from you.

quote:

I've been questioning this short of poo poo for years, but only in recent time have i actually seriously thought about any of it. and when i do, i feel like i'm still finding excuses. "i waited this long", or "what if i realize that isn't the case at all", and so on. poo poo that everyone tells me they've gone through, too.
Yeah, there can be a real temptation to let the status quo stand, but trust me: it's better to know than not. If it is the case? Fantastic. If it isn't the case? Also fantastic. Either way at the end of it you know yourself better and that's almost always a good thing.

quote:

i probably won't go to any center, at least not yet. it's a lot easier to talk about this poo poo online.
It's a process. Challenge yourself, sure, but don't overextend. When you feel comfortable, I recommend it. All of these feelings, doubts and what-not you've got going on, someone there has probably experienced the same thing, and you're most likely not going to be on the wrong end of any gold-star bullshit.

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Raere posted:

I'm a fan of using queer instead of LGBT++++++++++ because someone's always going to be left out if you use an acronym.
It's more complicated, but more precise. Not everyone is involved with what we're doing to the soil.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Raere posted:

I'm a fan of using queer instead of LGBT++++++++++ because someone's always going to be left out if you use an acronym.

Ya I usually use queer too, but it's kind of an Our Word thing where I'd beat the poo poo out of a non queer who used it.

Gynocentric Regime
Jun 9, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Zamujasa posted:

ah yes the funy computer forum, obviously the best place to post this

i originally thought of myself as just another dumb idiot cis male but in the last two years and especially the last two months i've been noticing that i might actually be trans and a lot of that cis thought might just be repression from the environment and my upbringing (my family was fairly conservative and even as recently as 2015 i had to deal with a family member calling a trans person "transvestite" as an insult and deadnaming them intentionally)

it's kind of like running "gender defrag.exe" complete with "gently caress realized another repressed memory, starting over" and it will probably take about as long as the real one before i really know what the hell is going on in my dumb idiot brain


e: also i'm asexual. it feels weird to consider that under 'queer' though, but i guess that'll feel more normal eventually since i only really realized that a week ago

Welcome fellow traveler, I hope you find yourself and live your true life. 😊

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

cis autodrag posted:

Ya I usually use queer too, but it's kind of an Our Word thing where I'd beat the poo poo out of a non queer who used it.

cleve jones was on npr the other day and he p consistently called himself a queer, but other people gay

Silver Alicorn
Mar 30, 2008

𝓪 𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪 𝓲𝓼 𝓪 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓸𝓾𝓼 𝓼𝓸𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓬𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽𝓾𝓻𝓮
just wanted to let you guys know I'm still solidly gay

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Triglav posted:


and avoid ppl who use glb and lg

Lucky Gender

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
Boring paper writing folk have used "gender and sex minorities" before

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

bob dobbs is dead posted:

Boring paper writing folk have used "gender and sex minorities" before

Sexual minorities, but ya that is common in academia. I think we were talking about self identification tho

A Pinball Wizard
Mar 23, 2005

I know every trick, no freak's gonna beat my hands

College Slice
queer is ok if you are using it in the right context

A Pinball Wizard fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Dec 7, 2017

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

A Pinball Wizard posted:

queer is ok if you are using it in the right context
Those contexts being:

1) Being queer
2) Not being queer, but also not being a butthole
3) Being Shirley Manson

Inappropriate contexts:

1) Being a butthole
2) Making unfounded insinuations about things that are being done to the soil

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fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

bob dobbs is dead posted:

Boring paper writing folk have used "gender and sex minorities" before

yeah but that doesnt work when u only got verizon coverage

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