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Sounds like it's Autonomy? Since she apparently has a ton of different aliases
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Dec 3, 2017 18:15
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Xenix posted:That's interesting, especially because I thought Sanderson explicitly said sometime else that there is no shard in that system, just the perpendicularity on Patji. i think the issue may be the time jump. there's people with spaceships that everyone assumes are future-scadrialians in that short story - so it has to be at least several decades ahead of the wax/wayne books. maybe that shard leaves or gets chased away sometime between hoid writing them and sixth of dusk. in one of those new q&as, brandon talks about one shard that likes to splinter itself and move on, which certainly would fit with autonomy
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Dec 3, 2017 18:46
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Huh, I suppose that would also fit well with the way the trappers work the islands. One might say they are all very Autonomous
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Dec 3, 2017 21:23
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Xenix posted:That's interesting, especially because I thought Sanderson explicitly said sometime else that there is no shard in that system, just the perpendicularity on Patji. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/259/#e8763 The quote is Questioner: Can a Shard go to a planet, create an autonomous Splinter, and then leave the system of the planet and then *inaudible* Brandon: Yeah, that's possible. In fact, that's happened. You've seen that happen.
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Dec 3, 2017 22:48
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Well, that could also be a reference to Ambition, since it stopped off in Threnody, got partially splintered, then jumped system to die somewhere else. That said, yeah, could be a large Autonomy splinter/cognitive shadow. Timeline's too messy to say for certain.
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Dec 4, 2017 00:21
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OAquinas posted:Well, that could also be a reference to Ambition, since it stopped off in Threnody, got partially splintered, then jumped system to die somewhere else. What do we know about autonomy?
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Dec 4, 2017 02:25
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RC Cola posted:What do we know about autonomy? Not a ton other than it's the Shard from White Sand, but there's stuff from Sanderson about how whole pantheons exist that are all Autonomy. Common theory is autonomy is 'Trell' in the Wax/Wayne books, which makes a lot of sense given its representatives' trying to liberate/free people from Harmony's influence. It seems like it may be set up to be another Cosmere-level villain - though maybe it won't be a villain so much as opposed to what our heroes are doing for non-evil reasons.
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Dec 4, 2017 02:38
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Wrapped it last night, have to agree with the comments of the pacing issues but I think anyone would have difficulty with everything attempted to be accomplished. Now that the series are starting to blend and we're getting one tome every 2-3 years, a lot of info has to be dumped for the fans, for the world building, and to advance things. It isn't sexy but if the book had been 2-300 pages shorter, we'd probably all be mad about it.
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Dec 6, 2017 19:30
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Damnit I expect at least 1000+ page tome when I get a stormlight book. Anything else is a ripoff!
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Dec 6, 2017 19:43
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I enjoyed Oathbringer overall but I didn't care for Sanderson putting more Cosmere - related stuff into the novel. It was fine when it was just little things like Wit/Hoid in The Way of Kings, other hints like Zahel saying odd words-- the black sword was a bit much at the end of WoR, but it went too far with Azure and the black sword again in Oathbringer. It feels to me that the series as presented at the beginning with TWoK has shifted course in this last novel with Sanderson injecting greater Cosmere stuff and Oathbringer felt all the more weaker for it. It was better when Cosmere nods were kept to a minimum and subtle, but it all went a bit too far in Oathbringer, making the story/world feel inconsistent.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:14
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Something to keep in mind is that those were Stormlight characters before Warbreaker was even conceived, which was kind of a stealth Stormlight prequel.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:40
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^burtle posted:if the book had been 2-300 pages shorter, we'd probably all be mad about it. Not me. I gave up on this book at page 1000. I thought the whole thing sucked, with few exceptions. My god what a boring book. There is some cool stuff in there but those moments are separated by such long stretches where so very little happens. I loved book one. Kaladin's journey was so compelling. Book two was good but not as great as the first. This one killed any desire I have to keep going in the series. Sanderson is so compelled to deliver gigantic books that the story suffers for it. The biggest problem is probably Dalinar's story. His entire plot is getting the other monarchs to believe him. It goes nowhere for hundreds and hundreds of pages. The book would have been so much more interesting if he actually turned to politics and geopolitical interests, making moves that forced other nations into supporting him out of their own interests. Or something other than whining about it until magically Queen Fen changes her mind. What a disappointment.
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Dec 6, 2017 23:26
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blue squares posted:So I'm almost halfway through Words of Radiance. At this point I feel like it could be half as long because most characters are spinning their wheels and making little progress, though at the same time I am enjoying it. Looked through my old posts and found the above quote. Does anyone else feel the same? I wanted to finish Oathbringer and see what happens but it felt like such a chore
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Dec 6, 2017 23:31
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blue squares posted:Looked through my old posts and found the above quote. Does anyone else feel the same? I wanted to finish Oathbringer and see what happens but it felt like such a chore I loved both of the previous books, and while this one isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, it's definitely a step back towards one of the worst habits of his early career. It's the most back-loaded book he's written in a very, very long time. One of the most common (and correct) critiques about his early writing was his tendency to build, and build, and build, and build, until there's this huge avalanche of complete awesomeness in the last 15% of the book. This lead to some very dull books (mistborn 2 is the worst of them) that still had good endings and couldn't really be skipped. He took that critique to heart and worked on this issue. He's done a great job of doing this, in general, and while he still loves his epic conclusions, there's been a definite trend towards peaks AND valleys in his plotting, instead of a flat line followed by OMGWTFWHOA. I've always been one to say that Sanderson is unique in that he is improving constantly and measurably as an author with every release. Oathkeeper is definitely a backslide: it's his first Avalanche in a long time.
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Dec 6, 2017 23:43
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I don't completely agree. Pacing-wise, there's definitely meant to be cool and awesome stuff in each section, it's just that some of them don't work out completely perfectly (kicking the Unmade out of Urithiru could've been more epic and immediately meaningful, the Elhokar/Moash/Kaladin/Queen showdown might've used some more time before everybody met up in the middle, etc.) and then there's variously useless filler--for example I think we largely could've done without the long stretch in Shadesmar where he had to go "and a few weeks later" in the outside world just to get all the timelines to match up by the time we get to Thaylenar. I don't think it's a problem of backloading the Avalanche, at least not by design. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Dec 7, 2017 |
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Dec 7, 2017 00:54
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blue squares posted:Looked through my old posts and found the above quote. Does anyone else feel the same? I wanted to finish Oathbringer and see what happens but it felt like such a chore Based on those two quotes maybe Stormlight isn't for you? While I thought the book was not as good as WoR it was still a good book for me. WoR was all about uniting our characters and that felt great, Oathbringer separates people a bit more, which while expected given the scope of the conflict, feels like a step back. And the pacing didn't feel off as much as the individual Parts felt disjoint. Each Part has its own goal and setting and it almost makes this feel like several smaller books thrown together - which I know is how he wrote it but I don't think he quite put it together in a way that made it feel like one novel. Nothing ever felt like a boring slog to read, it just sometimes I'd think "hey we haven't heard about X in a while, whatever happened to that?" and then it just never appears again. I think that's a bigger issue and I hope he manages to weave the plot together better for book 4.
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Dec 7, 2017 01:32
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blue squares posted:Looked through my old posts and found the above quote. Does anyone else feel the same? I wanted to finish Oathbringer and see what happens but it felt like such a chore Oathbringer's pacing isn't great, however the end is pretty great. If your options are never reading anymore of it or skim and get towards the cool poo poo at the end, just skim the boring stuff. I liked the novel but it is the weakest of the three. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:I don't completely agree. Pacing-wise, there's definitely meant to be cool and awesome stuff in each section, it's just that some of them don't work out completely perfectly (kicking the Unmade out of Urithiru could've been more epic and immediately meaningful, the Elhokar/Moash/Kaladin/Queen showdown might've used some more time before everybody met up in the middle, etc.) and then there's variously useless filler--for example I think we largely could've done without the long stretch in Shadesmar where he had to go "and a few weeks later" in the outside world just to get all the timelines to match up by the time we get to Thaylenar. Those first two events ended up being too anti-climatic, neither had that "holy poo poo" factor that the arena scene in WoR had for me. I re-read WoR the week before Oathbringer released and was looking forward to the arena scene the whole time. The last ~15% of Oathbringer delivered everything I wanted, it was exciting and compelling, I just wish there was something close to it earlier in the novel. A point in favor of Oathbringer is that I think Sanderson did the flashback pacing better. poo poo happens in Dalinar's flashbacks, questions are answered throughout, it's not back-loaded like Shallan's flashbacks in WoR.
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Dec 7, 2017 05:07
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At one point in time Brandon pitched ending Oathbringer at the current ending of Part 3 to his editor. She threatened to strangle him. If the big climax at the end of part 3 was the original ending of Oathbringer I think that explains a lot of the problems people have identified with pacing. I personally would have liked cutting the book shortly after the end of the Kholinar confrontation. Part 4 felt tacked on and unfocused as a result, and in hindsight served little narrative purpose except moving the Kholinar team to reunite with everyone else for the giant final battle. Brandon's editor was probably right that most of his audience would have hated an Empire Strikes Back ending though.
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Dec 7, 2017 06:38
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I would have loved an Empire Strikes Back ending.[ I was really expecting it given the state of the world at the end of Book 2. Mistborn 3 (Hero of Ages) had a great the world is literally ending feel, and I wanted that in Oathbringer. It didn't really deliver. What we got was fine, but it wasn't great. I wonder if my expectations were just too high, or wrong. I'll re-read it in six months or so and see if I still feel a little let down.
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Dec 7, 2017 06:53
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ConfusedUs posted:I would have loved an Empire Strikes Back ending.[ I was really expecting it given the state of the world at the end of Book 2. Mistborn 3 (Hero of Ages) had a great the world is literally ending feel, and I wanted that in Oathbringer. Mistborn was always intended as a trilogy though. SA is a 10 book series....hard to sustain that kind of situation for 7000 pages. I expect further destruction and Pyrrhic stalemates to close out book 5, but we'll see. Can't even speculate what the second 5 book series will look like.
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Dec 7, 2017 07:12
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I thought this was easily the best paced book of the series to date. Reading shallan was a bore and a chore as usual and book 4, the shadesmar section was a huge slow down in pace compared to the other 4 books that made up oathbringer. But really shadesmar slowed down to a more wok, or wor pace, the rest of oathbringer goes sooo fast. What happened in kholinar was a bigger crescendo than anything in wok or wor. And it’s only the halfway point of oathbringer.
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Dec 7, 2017 11:40
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OAquinas posted:Mistborn was always intended as a trilogy though. SA is a 10 book series....hard to sustain that kind of situation for 7000 pages. That's a pretty good point, but I definitely see where the other dude is coming from. With the countdown to the Everstorm in WoR and all the talk of a storm that blows the other way, I was picturing a much more hellish landscape than what was painted in Oathbringer. Yes, there was talk of cities being in really bad shape, but it never really felt like anyone was truly struggling because of it. We saw Kholinar which was overcrowded and hungry, and Thaylenah was pretty beat up but it didn't have the same sense of peril that Words of Radiance implied. As for all the pacing issues, I definitely thought the Shadesmar section went on way too long. And I think you guys might put my head on a spear for saying this but I thought chapter 120 ("The Spear That Would Not Break") was also entirely too long. Don't get me wrong, it had a lot of really cool parts but with a battle that epic I have a tough time because I just start to wonder, "OK but what is X up to?" Additionally, I often switch between physical book and ebook so I hate putting a book down mid-chapter. Combined with being a slower reader I just wanted to turn the page and have the chapter end. Instead it went on for 20 more pages. I'm also not a huge fan of the blatant world crossovers, either. I appreciated the much more subtle hints like Wit Soothing Shallan during a flashback in WoR, or casually mentioning perfect pitch while tuning an instrument. We'll see how it plays out in Book #4 but I'm hoping it doesn't get too out of hand. I don't want to feel like I need to read a bunch of books from each series in order to prep for another Stormlight novel. That said, while I do have a fairly large list of complaints I did like it. I enjoyed Dalinar's flashbacks way more than I thought I would.
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Dec 7, 2017 15:10
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Sab669 posted:With the countdown to the Everstorm in WoR and all the talk of a storm that blows the other way, I was picturing a much more hellish landscape than what was painted in Oathbringer. This was something I liked, actually. They pictured it as this immediate apocalypse, but instead it created an occupying army in their midst hellbent on creating a proper nation. The surprise is that their plans weren't immediate destruction, but rather creating a stable society that could last as long as any human civilization while it makes war on them. I get why people might not be into it but I thought the Moash/Venli chapters worked well for this reason, showing us that their enemies were nothing like they expected and in it for the long run. So yeah, the struggle wasn't nearly as bad in this book, but I think it sets up the future larger conflict much better than if they burned too hard too fast.
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Dec 7, 2017 15:16
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Sab669 posted:I'm also not a huge fan of the blatant world crossovers, either. I appreciated the much more subtle hints like Wit Soothing Shallan during a flashback in WoR, or casually mentioning perfect pitch while tuning an instrument. We'll see how it plays out in Book #4 but I'm hoping it doesn't get too out of hand. I don't want to feel like I need to read a bunch of books from each series in order to prep for another Stormlight novel. I think I'm fine with this. Brandon's obviously escalating the scale/scope/complexity of the conflict from where it was in Mistborn (2 Shards and the cross-over interactions), and just the set of intended main POV characters implies that a lot of curtains are gonna get pulled back. I mean in the bottom half we're going to get a hybrid Radiant plus 2 of the original Heralds.
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Dec 7, 2017 16:04
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I've understood that Sanderson is working towards some kind of cosmere wide culmination of all his books in the stormlight saga so I've been expecting a lot of world crossing stuff myself.
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Dec 7, 2017 17:20
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Yeah, that's the issue: the Cosmere is basically the MCU. You start with discrete pockets, but we're approaching Thor: Ragnarok where you get 3-4 different major guest crossovers. It's not going to slow down from here; it'll be interesting to see how he'll make them interact. It is A Thing that BS will need to address regarding how to make the books accessible to someone that hasn't read every scrap he's ever written, but this type of crossover is in the core DNA of the setting.
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Dec 7, 2017 17:29
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And if there's not a Wayne/Lopen team-up I will be very cross. I don't care what kind of timeline shenanigans need to happen. 
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Dec 7, 2017 17:31
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Uh, Brandon is on the record stating multiple times that he's working to avoid making this an Avengers Unite! series.
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Dec 7, 2017 21:22
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Stormlight, sure, but we're talking about in the long term he's also planned to have an ultimate 'cosmere' series tying everything together, and I'd be pretty surprised if the last few Stormlight books didn't help set up that next series.
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Dec 7, 2017 21:43
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Oathbringer had the best flashbacks by far. I never really cared for Kaladin's or Shallan's flashbacks, with Kaladin's being especially boring. At least Hoid showed up in Shllan's story. Dalinar's past was action packed, engaging, and very illuminating. Also horrible of course. For that alone, Oathbringer is the best book of the series so far, even if Shallan starts to get on my nerves. We need more Jasnah, Adolin and Renarin, and can do with less Shallan and Kaladin.
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Dec 7, 2017 22:10
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Torrannor posted:We need more Jasnah Agreed. She's my favorite character. I like competence in my characters, and she's like the Herald of Competence. I just re-read the Wax/Wayne novels. Wayne owns. MeLaan owns. Marasi gets over herself and that owns. By the end, I even like Steris, who has the funniest line in the series (when they're fleeing New Seran, she shouts back to the innkeeper "Framed for murder, page seventeen!" in reference to the document she prepared on things that could go wrong.) I find that hilarious. Alloy of Law is the best of the three, though. Miles was such a great villain, and that elevated the novel quite a bit.
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Dec 7, 2017 22:20
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Potato Salad posted:Uh, Brandon is on the record stating multiple times that he's working to avoid making this an Avengers Unite! series. Oh, I don't think Urithiru is going to have a mistborn contingent and a hall for Nalthis Returned where they party in between tracking down Ghostblood bases. But there's been a steady trend to fold in more cross-shardworld content, and I don't see that abating as Odium starts shaking the bars to his cage and either testing Harmony or egging on another Shard to do so.
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Dec 7, 2017 22:45
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The series doesn't need to have a bunch of people from various worlds but Odium is directly acting against Harmony and even if Harmony hasn't figured out that Trell is tied to Odium, if not an actual splinter of Odium's power he's already been contacted by someone about Odium's threat and is making them aware of it. Alternately, Harmony knows exactly what Trell and the red haze that Wax sees in Bands is, and just doesn't tell Wax because "this is the act of another god who is literally the embodiment of emotion and hate" might not be something he wants to burden Wax with. Oth the other hand, the reason Hoid gave Wax the metalmind coin in Bands might be because Harmony has suggested Wax as someone who could help with matters on Roshar and they're slowly getitng him ready for it with that memory. The Wax thing only seems vaguely possible because in Oathbringer we see that Hoid has contacted Harmony, and is pointed to the Kandra for future contact. Unless the letter is from the future (which makes no sense) it means that by the time the Wax and Wayne books take place Hoid and Harmony have been in some sort of contact for several years at the least. Torrannor posted:Oathbringer had the best flashbacks by far. I never really cared for Kaladin's or Shallan's flashbacks, with Kaladin's being especially boring. At least Hoid showed up in Shllan's story. Dalinar's past was action packed, engaging, and very illuminating. Also horrible of course. For that alone, Oathbringer is the best book of the series so far, even if Shallan starts to get on my nerves. We need more Jasnah, Adolin and Renarin, and can do with less Shallan and Kaladin. I want more Adolin and Mayalaran. Everyone else can take a back seat to that.
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Dec 7, 2017 23:07
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Torrannor posted:Oathbringer had the best flashbacks by far. I never really cared for Kaladin's or Shallan's flashbacks, with Kaladin's being especially boring. At least Hoid showed up in Shllan's story. Dalinar's past was action packed, engaging, and very illuminating. Also horrible of course. For that alone, Oathbringer is the best book of the series so far, even if Shallan starts to get on my nerves. We need more Jasnah, Adolin and Renarin, and can do with less Lift. Fixed that for you. She was really the only major problem with the book.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:03
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ConfusedUs posted:I just re-read the Wax/Wayne novels. Wayne owns. MeLaan owns. Marasi gets over herself and that owns. By the end, I even like Steris, who has the funniest line in the series (when they're fleeing New Seran, she shouts back to the innkeeper "Framed for murder, page seventeen!" in reference to the document she prepared on things that could go wrong.) I find that hilarious. I started out being flat-out annoyed by Steris, then I felt sorry for her, and ultimately I ended up cheering her on (and I laughed at the exact same spot). I think in general the characters in the Wax & Wayne books have more depth than any of his series so far and we see them adapt and grow throughout the books (even Wayne!). I wonder if that's because they're the most adventure-y of adventure novels. While the stakes are high at times and it can get dark, I get a vibe of whimsy and fun that's not present (or at least not as much) in his other work. Captain Monkey posted:Fixed that for you. She was really the only major problem with the book. I actually like Lift. It seems to me there's a lot of darkness in her back story for her to be that afraid of setting down roots and being so gun shy with personal relationships. I'm on the fence as to whether I want to know what it is specifically. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Dec 8, 2017 |
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Dec 8, 2017 01:56
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Captain Monkey posted:Fixed that for you. She was really the only major problem with the book. Wrong
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Dec 8, 2017 02:34
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Captain Monkey posted:Fixed that for you. She was really the only major problem with the book. She was pretty nonabrasive in this book. I think maybe the things someone might be annoyed with was her nickname for Dalinar and then later on asking him where she could get something to eat.
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Dec 8, 2017 02:48
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Xenix posted:She was pretty nonabrasive in this book. I see what you did there.
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Dec 8, 2017 05:21
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Lift is definitely written waaay out of tune with the rest of the setting, but I think BS is finding her voice and stride. She's grown progressively less annoying/WTF with each book. Honestly, she's more in danger of being a mary sue, as crazy as that seems.
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Dec 8, 2017 05:27
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It's more that Lift doesn't seem to notice/care that it's a world-ending apocalypse and she's making faces while tying demon shoelaces together instead of taking it seriously. The eating thing isn't actually that stupid, since her boon from Cultivation is that she turns food into Investiture, and so doesn't need Stormlight to power her abilities. It's crazy powerful given the struggles that the other Radiants have with keeping enough Stormlight on hand.
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Dec 8, 2017 06:45
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