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MassRafTer posted:I have absolutely no problem with people not voting for CMLL in most categories even if they watch it. They had a great year but didn't have that one real emotional climax that would give them a shot at MOTY, didn't really push their biggest and best for their biggest matches and so the stand out performances were kind of mixed in between half a dozen guys. Would you stump for CMLL Friday Night as best weekly show? I think NJPW on AXS will win (source: me watching that instead of CMLL every week) but heard nothing but great things about the CMLL shows.
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Dec 7, 2017 06:59
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Big Coffin Hunter posted:While Okada/Omega and Naito/Tanahashi are easy one and two for feud of the year, for those not into Reigns/Strowman I think there's a really good argument to be made for New Day/Usos. While the ending to the first match was meh, it went along into some of the best matches WWE has done all year, ending in that amazing hell in a cell match Aw damnit, I knew I forgot someone there  Yeah, Usos/New Day totally deserves Feud of the Year votes.
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Dec 7, 2017 07:07
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Benne posted:Would you stump for CMLL Friday Night as best weekly show? I think NJPW on AXS will win (source: me watching that instead of CMLL every week) but heard nothing but great things about the CMLL shows. For the first half of the year I would go for Puebla but Fridays have been better lately, especially when they started ramping up for the Grand Prix. Puebla has a lot of fun silly stuff like Police Man and Metalico entrances, but the booking is a bit more frustrating. Fridays have better matches but a bit less roster variety (which is a good thing given Puebla openers.) My tastes are weird but it'd be a realistic thing to stump for that Dave would probably even agree with and could maybe get some serious momentum. But instead MICRO MAN FOR ROY!
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Dec 7, 2017 07:11
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MassRafTer posted:For the first half of the year I would go for Puebla but Fridays have been better lately, especially when they started ramping up for the Grand Prix. Puebla has a lot of fun silly stuff like Police Man and Metalico entrances, but the booking is a bit more frustrating. Fridays have better matches but a bit less roster variety (which is a good thing given Puebla openers.) Most of that sounds really fun, and when I do get the time CMLL Friday is always a blast. Just can't watch it enough to vote it No.1. Does CMLL have a serious argument for Best Promotion, or is it NJPW, ROH and everyone else fighting for third place?
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Dec 7, 2017 07:28
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I'd go New Japan, CMLL and maybe ROH for me...
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Dec 7, 2017 07:49
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Benne posted:Most of that sounds really fun, and when I do get the time CMLL Friday is always a blast. Just can't watch it enough to vote it No.1. CMLL had a very good year business wise and was really good in ring too. Partially frustrating given some of the weird pushes, but they were also without Atlantis which probably changed some plans. That actually makes the second half of the year more impressive.
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Dec 7, 2017 14:02
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MassRafTer posted:I have absolutely no problem with people not voting for CMLL in most categories even if they watch it. They had a great year but didn't have that one real emotional climax that would give them a shot at MOTY, didn't really push their biggest and best for their biggest matches and so the stand out performances were kind of mixed in between half a dozen guys. Nuevo Generacion Dinamitas (Sanson, Cuatrero, and Forastero) is gonna be number #1 on my Tag Team ballot and deserve some attention but otherwise agreed.
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Dec 7, 2017 14:41
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Thauros posted:Nuevo Generacion Dinamitas (Sanson, Cuatrero, and Forastero) is gonna be number #1 on my Tag Team ballot and deserve some attention but otherwise agreed. NGD are great and part of the reason I want to know if Trios are actually eligible. I legitimately only pay attention to the Observer Awards in years I want to promote a truly deserving candidate.
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Dec 7, 2017 15:30
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I haven't watched much Lucha this year but does anything there beat the House of Horrors for Worst Worked Match Diamante Azul vs Pierroth If were really being petty, the CMLL Legends show from a few weeks ago had a spectacularly terrible main event, but the combined age in the ring was probably over 300. Edit: actually the worst match 2 years ago was a team of aging Villanos and the clowns, so yeah 2 super old trios including a Villano is fair game. Especially since they could've stuck Negro Casas in that match so it's at least passable OJ MIST 2 THE DICK fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Dec 7, 2017 |
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Dec 7, 2017 22:45
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exploded mummy posted:Diamante Azul vs Pierroth Their actual apuestas match wasn't that bad, the feud itself sucked though.
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Dec 7, 2017 22:47
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It wasnt what it was for the effort thwy put into it. Also when does the WON ballot cutoff again. I can't remember if the legends match would meet it for 2017.
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Dec 7, 2017 22:58
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exploded mummy posted:It wasnt what it was for the effort thwy put into it. November 30th.
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Dec 7, 2017 23:48
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exploded mummy posted:Diamante Azul vs Pierroth I watched that match after the B&V review and yeah, it's pretty poo poo. But it was at least bad in an entertaining way, while House of Horrors was a loving chore to sit through.
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Dec 8, 2017 02:01
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For best Weekly TV I want to stump for NXT for coming back in a strong way after a really lazy 2016 where the main singles title felt like it was just being centered around a feud between Joe and Nakamura all year round. They changed up the presentation, gave more vignettes and promo segements to build character, started to have really good TV matches instead of just middling matches to set up for the Takeovers and the only negative I can say is that the Full Sail crowd is just dead a lot nowadays in terms of reaction and heat.
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Dec 8, 2017 03:00
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the worst match of the year was Ethan Page vs Darby Allin at Evolve 81 the worst feud of the year was also Ethan Page vs Darby Allin
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Dec 8, 2017 03:44
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that feud was awesome
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Dec 8, 2017 04:08
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it sucked rear end in a bad way
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Dec 8, 2017 05:23
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Alright, on to the rest of my list. PROMOTION OF THE YEAR 1) New Japan Pro Wrestling 2) Ring of Honor 3) CMLL Honorable mentions: WWE, Progress, PWG NJPW made its long-awaited push into the American market, and early returns are promising. Even without that, they're clearly in a middle of a massive boom that's not slowing down any time soon. Easy choice for No. 1. ROH and CMLL also did great business, and as much as we bag on WWE creative, their revenues keep growing, so uh, that's something. BEST WEEKLY TV SHOW 1) NJPW on AXS 2) WWE NXT 3) CMLL Friday nights Some people didn't like the AXS show winning last year as a glorified clip show, and the JR/Josh Barnett team is divisive (stemming from an admittedly rough performance at the Long Beach show). But at the end of the day, my question is this -- does the show have the best wrestling on TV? Then it's the best wrestling TV show. They've also gotten much better at airing matches on a quick turnaround, showing the major G1 and KOPW matches only a couple months after the fact. Also I like JR and Josh, so  NXT reinvigorated itself after a down 2016 and is once again the best product WWE produces. CMLL's Friday show gets consistently good reviews and its easy accessibility to American fans is a major point in its favor. PRO WRESTLING MATCH OF THE YEAR 1) Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega, NJPW Dominion 2) Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega, NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 3) Kazuchika Okada vs. Katsuyori Shibata, NJPW Sakura Genesis Honorable mentions: Tetsuya Naito vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi, NJPW Dominion; Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega, NJPW G1 Climax; Tetsuya Naito vs. Kenny Omega, NJPW G1 Climax Final; Hiromu Takahashi vs. KUSHIDA, NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11; Tyler Bate vs. Pete Dunne, NXT TakeOver Chicago; Kenny Omega vs. Tomohiro Ishii, NJPW G1 Special in Long Beach; John Cena vs. AJ Styles, WWE Royal Rumble; Sanity vs. Undisputed Era vs. Authors of Pain & Roderick Strong, NXT TakeOver WarGames; Will Ospreay vs. Ricochet, NJPW Best of Super Juniors; Asuka vs. Ember Moon, NXT TakeOver Brooklyn III; Braun Strowman vs. Roman Reigns vs. Samoa Joe vs. Brock Lesnar, WWE SummerSlam *deep breath* God drat, what an incredible year of matches. I haven't even scratched the surface -- the honorable mentions list could go much, much longer. My top 3 is pretty set at this point, even with the tragic ending to Okada/Shibata (your mileage will vary on that). ROOKIE OF THE YEAR Abstain, mostly because Hirai Kawato isn't eligible. BEST NON-WRESTLER 1) Daryl Takahashi 2) Zelina Vega 3) Dario Cueto Honorable mentions: Daniel Bryan, Maryse, Paul Ellering Daryl is love, Daryl is life. But I wanna talk about Zelina for a minute, because she and Almas instantly connected, to the point where Almas' NXT career went from "dead in the water to "champion" almost overnight. CMLL purists will probably blanche at La Sombra losing his mask, getting a mouthpiece, and not being tranquilo anymore. But sometimes, when WWE gets it right, they get it right -- Almas/Zelina is a money act. May his title reign be long and prosperous. Let's give a shoutout to Maryse and wish her the best in her pregnancy. Miz really hasn't been the same since she left TV, and the Miztourage is a poor replacement (don't @ me). Also, pour one out for Dario, still the best thing about LU. Hopefully he recovers from his gunshot wound in time for Season 4  BEST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER 1) Corey Graves 2) Mauro Ranallo 3) Don Callis Honorable mentions: Nigel McGuinness Really not a good year for announcers, with most of the WWE crew going to poo poo even after JBL left. I'll give the nod to Corey, since at least he's supposed to be obnoxious and knows what he's doing. I still like Mauro, but someone needs to tell him that going HEY KIDS I KNOW DANK HIP-HOP MEMES every time a black man is in the ring is ... not a good look. WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER 1) Percy Watson 2) JBL 3) Josh Barnett JBL didn't gently caress off until September, so he had a good strong year being the worst announcer on Smackdown. Percy is hopelessly out of his depth, to the point where they barely even let him talk outside of ad reads. I mentioned above that I actually like the JR/Barnett team on AXS, and when they're just calling the matches they're good. But man, when Josh has to get over his weird references while JR sits there in confused silence, it's pretty painful. BEST MAJOR WRESTLING SHOW 1) NJPW Dominion 2) NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 3) NXT TakeOver Chicago Honorable mentions: NJPW G1 Climax Final, NXT TakeOver WarGames, NXT TakeOver Brooklyn III, NJPW G1 Special in Long Beach Dominion was  in wrestling form, about as close to perfect as a wrestling show can get. And WK was really good too! NXT also roared back with its best batch of TakeOver shows since the Sami/Neville/Horsewomen glory days.Category B WORST MAJOR WRESTLING SHOW 1) WWE Battleground Honorable mentions: AAA TripleMania 25, WWE Survivor Series, Impact Bound for Glory TripleMania was by all accounts a total shitshow, but I never got around to watching it so apparently I was the winner. I did watch Battleground, which once again lived up (down?) to its reputation as the consistently worst WWE show of the year. BEST WRESTLING MANEUVER 1) Kairi Sane's elbow Honorable mentions: Ember Moon's Eclipse, Velveteen Dream's elbow, AJ Styles' Phenomenal Forearm, Kenny Omega's One Winged Angel Pretty good year for elbow/forearm moves. MOST DISGUSTING PROMOTIONAL TACTIC 1) WWE lionizing Warrior for PR purposes Honorable mentions: WWE lionizing Jimmy Snuka, Impact pushing Alberto El Patron after domestic violence allegations, AAA pushing Sexy Star, AAA stripping Taya of her belt for bullshit reasons Lots of "good" choices this year, and I'll go with the Warrior thing, which WWE is still pushing for some reason. He died three years ago, nobody is sad anymore. Did they just assume we'd forget all the horrible poo poo he said/did? This also extends to Dana Warrior, who is apparently as big a tool as her late husband was. Just gross all around. WORST TELEVISION SHOW 1) WWE SmackDown Live Honorable mentions: WWE Raw, Impact The rise and fall of SmackDown Live can be traced not to the moment Road Dogg became booker, but to the moment Shane decided to make it The Shane McMahon Show. Starting with the AJ feud, continuing into the Owens feud, and to his reign of terror today, Shane made the entire show about Shane, betraying the original ethos of "it's about the wrestlers, not the authority figures." Maybe that was the plan all along given the heel turn rumors, but it doesn't excuse the vast majority of 2017 SmackDown revolving around a McMahon. Wasn't that supposed to be Raw's job? Also Jinder was champion. Remember that? It really happened. WORST MATCH OF THE YEAR 1) Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss, Kendo Stick on a Pole Match, WWE Extreme Rules Honorable mentions: Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton, House of Horrors, WWE Payback; Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton, WWE WrestleMania 33; Jinder Mahal vs. Randy Orton, Punjabi Prison, WWE Battleground; Triple H, Kurt Angle, Braun Strowman, Finn Balor, Samoa Joe vs. Shane McMahon, Randy Orton, Bobby Roode, John Cena, Shinsuke Nakamura, WWE Survivor Series There are matches with bad wrestling, matches with bad booking, matches with convoluted rules, and matches that derail careers. It takes a special kind of match to combine all that and be a real Worst Match of the Year contender. Bayley/Alexa fits the bill in my book. Bad wrestling? Five minutes of sloppy work built around a confusing stip. Bad booking? The bully heel goes over clean, destroying whatever cred the scrappy babyface had left. Convoluted rules? Oh, you betcha. The whole thing was that only the person who grabbed the kendo stick off the pole can use it legally, but Bayley dropped it and then Alexa used it, which is apparently fine for some reason. Derailing careers? Welp, Bayley is deader than disco, and even Alexa hasn't recovered despite still being champ. Perhaps because all her babyface challengers -- like, say, Bayley -- have been killed beyond repair. House of Horrors might be more memorably bad, but who did it affect negatively? Randy is still a top guy, Bray is still a dumbshit geek. Nothing changed there. Bayley/Alexa changed everything for the worse, so it's my pick for Worst Match of 2017. WORST FEUD OF THE YEAR 1) Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss Honorable mentions: Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton, Jinder Mahal vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, Bray Wyatt vs. Finn Balor, Dolph Ziggler vs. Bobby Roode See above, and then add in Bayley This Is Your Life, easily the worst Raw segment of the year. WORST PROMOTION OF THE YEAR 1) AAA Honorable mention: Impact Is this the year TNA finally gets dethroned? AAA has been a total shitshow on all fronts -- bad business, horrible talent relations, scummy carny practices (let's not forget them stripping Taya of her belt and making up bullshit reasons after the fact, only to hand the belt to loving Sexy Star). But Impact is pushing Alberto in 2017, so they won't give up their crown without a fight. BEST BOOKER 1) Gedo Yeah BEST GIMMICK 1) Hiromu Takahashi & Daryl Honorable mentions: EVIL, Broken/Woken Matt Hardy, Fashion Police, Drew Gulak, Toru Yano Daryl is love, Daryl is life. WORST GIMMICK 1) Bray Wyatt No honorable mentions. This is the only thing that needs to be considered.
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Dec 8, 2017 11:28
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Agreed on Alexa/Bayley being worst match and feud. I'd go far enough to say Alexa is most overrated outside of Jinder and Shane. She's not terrible but even outside of the bad booking she hasn't really had a memorable match or feud since she left Smackdown. Takahashi and Daryl is a great gimmick, as are all your honorable mentions except Matt Hardy. I love the gimmick but realistically between Wrestlemania and last week he wasn't doing the broken gimmick and we only had one segment in the November-November timeline. I'd also argue Braun Strowman's monster gimmick is another contender Also the Shibata/Okada match was amazing but personally I'm not going to put it in the top 3 because of the aftermath. No problem to you or anyone else who will but I'm kind of uncomfortable doing that myself. Personally, I'd put Bryan as 2nd best non-wrestler (Daryl is love, Daryl is life)
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Dec 8, 2017 18:36
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Bard Maddox posted:the worst match of the year was Ethan Page vs Darby Allin at Evolve 81 Is that the match with the bodybag?
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Dec 8, 2017 19:16
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that feud was fine and had some really fun spots in it. the only problem was the extremely loving stupid blowoff at EVOLVE 82, both on a booking and working level
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Dec 8, 2017 20:18
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My Promotion of the Year is 1. NJPW 2. CMLL 3. WWE ROH in a distant fourth, being only separated from AAW/Beyond/Evolve in a distant fifth by the fact that they've made more money.
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Dec 8, 2017 20:42
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MassRafTer posted:KUSHIDA has been my choice for the last few years. WWE has a few candidates among their smaller dudes and there's a flurry of them in Mexico. Please tell me more about these lucha technicians.
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Dec 9, 2017 02:15
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sportsgenius86 posted:Is that the match with the bodybag? yes, I was thinking of the last man standing one at 82 when darby got his arm broken by being hit with a shovel and then going ten minutes after that, five of which was trying to be maneuvered into a body bag with a broken arm and then being powerbombed onto it, which was excruciatingly bad to watch
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Dec 9, 2017 04:15
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Suplex Liberace posted:Please tell me more about these lucha technicians. I'd have to think about who the standout younger guys are but historically guys like Black Terry and Negro Casas are amazing. Casas has lost a step this year but even a couple years ago would be a good pick in best technical. Black Terry might still be. He's had some great matches this year. Edit: I know he's not the best but the first name that came to mind is The Panther. I love him. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 9, 2017 04:23
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Benne posted:WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER wow, booker t didn't even rate?
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Dec 9, 2017 07:29
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Big Coffin Hunter posted:Takahashi and Daryl is a great gimmick, as are all your honorable mentions except Matt Hardy. I love the gimmick but realistically between Wrestlemania and last week he wasn't doing the broken gimmick and we only had one segment in the November-November timeline. I'd also argue Braun Strowman's monster gimmick is another contender. Eh, the Broken thing was still going strong from November to Mania weekend, complete with a Young Bucks feud that lived up to the hype and did big business. It definitely fizzled out after that, but I thought it was still good enough for honorable mention placement. And hey, if the rumors are true and Matt has creative control over Woken, then I might actually get my hopes up for it. Braun is also a good choice. Cardboard Box posted:wow, booker t didn't even rate? God, I forgot. The Raw announce team is such white noise these days that Booker's badness barely even registered, but he does belong up there. Benne fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 9, 2017 08:00
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We forgot about how bad Booker was cause he actually was an improvement over Otunga
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Dec 9, 2017 08:55
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Benne posted:Eh, the Broken thing was still going strong from November to Mania weekend, complete with a Young Bucks feud that lived up to the hype and did big business. It definitely fizzled out after that, but I thought it was still good enough for honorable mention placement. And hey, if the rumors are true and Matt has creative control over Woken, then I might actually get my hopes up for it. I can see that, to be fair I forgot the Broken Hardys/Bucks stuff was going on in November through Mania and thought it was earlier in 2016. On the other hand I don't like voting on what things COULD end up being so I wouldn't count any of the Woken Hardy stuff personally.
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Dec 9, 2017 08:59
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Big Coffin Hunter posted:I can see that, to be fair I forgot the Broken Hardys/Bucks stuff was going on in November through Mania and thought it was earlier in 2016. On the other hand I don't like voting on what things COULD end up being so I wouldn't count any of the Woken Hardy stuff personally. Yeah, the Woken stuff is very much "wait and see," especially with Jeff still on the shelf indefinitely. But even without that, the Hardys did good work with The Bar and helped carry the Raw tag division after New Day went to SD. I feel like people underrate their WWE run because they didn't immediately go Broken after coming back.
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Dec 9, 2017 09:24
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Benne posted:Yeah, the Woken stuff is very much "wait and see," especially with Jeff still on the shelf indefinitely. But even without that, the Hardys did good work with The Bar and helped carry the Raw tag division after New Day went to SD. I feel like people underrate their WWE run because they didn't immediately go Broken after coming back. I actually liked their run, but in the conversation of Best Gimmick their WWE run was an Old School Hardy Boyz run, a drat fine one that sometimes had a fun reference to the Broken gimmick. Maybe like 5th best tag of the year? Not to insult them it's going to be hard to beat the Bucks, Usos, New Day, etc. but yeah I don't think that run should be included in this specific vote
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Dec 9, 2017 09:29
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After seeing the EVOLVE business chart and how well Timothy Thatcher's reign did (comparatively speaking) I feel even sillier for not mentioning Stokely Hathaway as a candidate for Best Non Wrestler. Obviously that reign was prior to this year but that act was over and Big Stoke is great in his role.
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Dec 11, 2017 03:31
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Not that anyone really cares about best book but I started reading the Pillman book and it's great. The author clearly (and admittedly) was a fan but doesn't hide the bad or even the weird details that might not make Pillman look good. I was originally going to read it over Christmas but it'll be finished long before then.
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Dec 18, 2017 17:19
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on CMLL I have watched about a dozen or more Friday night shows this year and clips out of the lucha thread and the growing rivalry between Mistico and Caristico is gaining heat and maybe in 2018 would be a good match for them but I do not know who would lose their mask. There are fun matches where Mistico and Carisitico will be in multi-man matches and end up losing their masks and gaining masks of other wrestlers, usually older wrestlers who have already lost their mask like old Juvi's father Fuerza Guerrea. maybe I missed the conclusion but the indie rivalries of Rush/Ultimo Guerrero/LA Park were interesting but I am not a fan of matches filmed on cell phone I watched Triplemania on Twitch because I saw an ad for it on Facebook when I was peeping and creeping on a Saturday night and had nothing better to do. Worst show of the year? Sure I guess. But the match between Psycho Clown and Dr Wagner jr. was good. I cancelled my network sub after Money in the Bank 2017 so I would call that the worst show of the year
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Dec 18, 2017 20:30
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In case you were thinking of voting for anyone other than Micro Man for Rookie of the Year here's some clips from his first match ever, which sold out Arena Mexico on Kid's Day. https://twitter.com/mongo_ebooks/status/943322136466378752 (If you think I'm bullshitting they promoted this match for a full month.)
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Dec 20, 2017 04:37
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Ok, how can a wrestler who has never wrestled before sell out an arena?
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Dec 24, 2017 00:28
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ChrisBTY posted:Ok, how can a wrestler who has never wrestled before sell out an arena? First, they promoted the match for a month. Second, it was a match that fans had begged to see for years. Fans have wanted to see the mascots wrestle for a long time, but Kemonito is physically incapable of wrestling. So when his son Micro Man debuted, it was a big deal. They pushed it as a big deal too, hyping up the reveal pretty big. Third, they promoted it for a month straight, TV appearances, hype videos on their shows, etc. Finally it was on Kids Day where kids get in cheap and kids love the mascots most of all. That's your recipe for drawing 16,000 people.
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Dec 24, 2017 00:48
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quote:10. ROOKIE OF THE YEAR - This is based on ring performance, not how someone is pushed or necessarily even long-term star potential. By the standards of the category, a rookie is someone who hasn't had a regular job with a full-time wrestling company before September 1, 2016. Top contenders for this award are Yuya Aoki, Tetsuya Ito, Junta Miyawaki, Yuki Yoshioka, Katsumi Takashima, Yusuke Okada, Natsuko Tora, Yuki Ueno, Henare, Naomi Yoshimura, Katsuya Kitamura, Austin Theory, Shota Umino, Ren Narita, Tetsuhiro Yagi, Takato Nakano, Myron Reed, Kid Lykos, Tomoyuki Oka, Leo Tonga, Travis Huckabee, Lacey Evans, Bianca Belair, Reina Gonzales, Taynara Conti, Microman, Zacarias and Gaillito. Last year's top three were Matt Riddle, Lio Rush and Fred Yehi.
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Dec 28, 2017 14:59
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Change to the Observer Awards - December 2017 counts this time, so it's a 13 month span. Future awards will be January to December.
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Dec 28, 2017 17:47
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 I was accustomed to how it worked by this point but this still makes far more sense in the present day
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Dec 28, 2017 18:08
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