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The dialogue/ultraviolence also is giving me uncomfortable ennis/millar "this is what members of these minority groups talk like" vibes.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:55
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uuuhh, what, lol? You mean from the racist cops?
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Dec 1, 2017 21:09
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Punkin Spunkin posted:uuuhh, what, lol? You mean from the racist cops? The (pointlessly) racist cops, the ultraviolence, the dead civilians, the overuse of negative color highlights, the mysterious death of the first cop who was cuffing him...take your pick really. I'm guessing that Deadly Class strongly resembles Kick-rear end in its narrative arc. Teen power fantasy with sexy powerful female lead who likes him for no reason? Simultaneous playing up and very selective subversion of racial stereotypes? Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Dec 2, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 05:17
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From what I've read of it Deadly Class is a lot more like one of those not-quite-so-sanitized teen movies, except with lots of murder and crime. Like, An edgy teen movie that is then made more edgy by taking place in the John Wick universe
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Dec 2, 2017 08:34
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Ow the edge
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Dec 2, 2017 15:16
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you are just living up to your av aren't ya bud
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Dec 2, 2017 17:23
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Herr Tog posted:you are just living up to your av aren't ya bud Your actually saying that's good?
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Dec 2, 2017 17:24
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Discendo Vox posted:The (pointlessly) racist cops Deadly class is okay. It's no masterpiece but it's better than edgy Millar shlock
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Dec 2, 2017 17:30
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Dont see that as pointless so much as generally accurate but hey different life experiences
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Dec 2, 2017 17:35
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Dont see that as pointless so much as generally accurate but hey different life experiences In fairness, he might not be American. If you, say, live in a cave in the South Pacific somewhere surrounded by friendly crustaceans and aquatic lizards you might not have heard about the numerous and constant examples of racial injustice perpetrated by police in America. Or maybe he's just dense.
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Dec 2, 2017 17:56
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ecavalli posted:In fairness, he might not be American. If you, say, live in a cave in the South Pacific somewhere surrounded by friendly crustaceans and aquatic lizards you might not have heard about the numerous and constant examples of racial injustice perpetrated by police in America. "Realism" doesn't work well as a defense or explanation when the comic also does this. The police aren't racist because it's realistic or some sort of social commentary, they're racist because the writer wants to have characters be racist, so that the writer can be racist. This method lets the author equivocate with transgressive imagery because the world of the comic is an unpleasant place. Ennis and Millar both use the same routine. That's the whole point.
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Dec 2, 2017 18:05
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Discendo Vox posted:"Realism" doesn't work well as a defense or explanation when the comic also does this. The police aren't racist because it's realistic or some sort of social commentary, they're racist because the writer wants to have characters be racist, so that the writer can be racist. This method lets the author equivocate with transgressive imagery because the world of the comic is an unpleasant place. Ennis and Millar both use the same routine. That's the whole point. Dense it is then! This idea that the writer is creating police characters as a stand in to espouse his own racist viewpoints is a hell of a lot less likely than the possibility that the writer has simply turned on the news at any point during the prior three decades.
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Dec 2, 2017 18:23
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Discendo Vox posted:"Realism" doesn't work well as a defense or explanation when the comic also does this. The police aren't racist because it's realistic or some sort of social commentary, they're racist because the writer wants to have characters be racist, so that the writer can be racist. This method lets the author equivocate with transgressive imagery because the world of the comic is an unpleasant place. Ennis and Millar both use the same routine. That's the whole point.
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Dec 2, 2017 18:47
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Discendo Vox posted:"Realism" doesn't work well as a defense or explanation when the comic also does this. The police aren't racist because it's realistic or some sort of social commentary, they're racist because the writer wants to have characters be racist, so that the writer can be racist. This method lets the author equivocate with transgressive imagery because the world of the comic is an unpleasant place. Ennis and Millar both use the same routine. That's the whole point. The notion that "the writer is writing characters who are racist means the writer must then by extension be racist" is one of the stupidest loving concepts I have ever seen. Writers write characters whose views they do not share all the loving time. Mario Puzo did not have to secretly be a mafia don to write The Godfather. Robert Heinlein did not have to fight alien bugs on a faraway planet to write Starship Troopers. It's called fiction for a reason, you absolute dunce.
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Dec 2, 2017 19:00
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Here's some classic badassery ( and Loki dickery ) from Simonson's Thor run. ( do y'all own the Omnibus? You should own it ) Odin has sent Baldur the Brave, to deliver an urgent message to Loki's castle. The old enemies are gathering, and if Loki does not fight beside Asgard, the universe may be lost. Baldur is a broken god with PTSD, and who, having visited Hel and seen those he killed suffering there, has sworn to never do violence again.        
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Dec 2, 2017 19:09
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Big Fat Balder Kicking rear end is  
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Dec 2, 2017 19:13
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Simonson is so good, and I think Balder might be my second-favorite character of his run (after, of course, the immortal Beta Ray Bill).
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Dec 2, 2017 19:20
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Discendo Vox posted:"Realism" doesn't work well as a defense or explanation when the comic also does this. The police aren't racist because it's realistic or some sort of social commentary, they're racist because the writer wants to have characters be racist, so that the writer can be racist. This method lets the author equivocate with transgressive imagery because the world of the comic is an unpleasant place. Ennis and Millar both use the same routine. That's the whole point. This is a good post and I'm kind of surprised that everybody seems to be willfully misreading it. Deadly Class isn't a realist narrative-- as evidenced by the blatantly absurd "twisted John Hughes" page linked here-- and so falling back on "it's just realistic" is a goofy defense. Yes, cops say racist poo poo, and yes, in a comic a little more closely aligned with realist fiction those same cops could say that same stuff and it would be fine. But Deadly Class is predicated almost entirely on exaggerating and amplifying stereotypes and I would say that it very often veers into clownish racism. Remender isn't interested in mimesis, he's writing a big loud angry cartoon, which in and of itself is perfectly fine. But when he errs and lapses into some ugly rear end issues of representation I think it's totally valid to hold him to it.
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Dec 3, 2017 00:58
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Proteus Jones posted:Your actually saying that's good? It is nonsensical and so far it appears loose with the hows and The CIA/FBI kids really need to step their game up. Pedantry on this scale is not good.
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Dec 3, 2017 09:11
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Simonson is so good, and I think Balder might be my second-favorite character of his run (after, of course, the immortal Beta Ray Bill). That was drat good dialogue too.
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Dec 3, 2017 09:17
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:The notion that "the writer is writing characters who are racist means the writer must then by extension be racist" is one of the stupidest loving concepts I have ever seen. This is an impressively bad take, and you should probably understand what he actually said before you go calling people dunces? No one’s trying to divine what’s in the author’s heart of hearts. However, if you’re going to have a character be racist, it should probably be for some narrative purpose. Otherwise, just like cuss words or gore, it’s just transgression for transgressions’ sake. Unless that comic arc somehow comes around to making an incisive point about institutionalized racism and the prison-industrial complex, it sure seems like the author is just sticking in racist tropes to be soooo edgy. The character is racist because the author wanted them to be, not because they needed to be to better tell the story. That doesn’t make the author racist, but it is a valid point to criticize.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:34
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RolandTower posted:This is an impressively bad take, and you should probably understand what he actually said before you go calling people dunces? While I agree that gratuitous racism for shock value can be exploitative, I think simply acknowledging that social issues exist can be a valid enough reason to include racism in your story even if it's not leading towards some overarching point. Otherwise, you risk glossing over the existence of prejudice just because it doesn't immediately serve your plot. Deadly Class doesn't look like that though, the racialised "prison gang" style teen squads are pretty cringey.
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Dec 6, 2017 11:08
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Thanos, admit it, you totally sucked as a god.
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Dec 7, 2017 08:26
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That's a straight up Fatality there
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Dec 7, 2017 08:50
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What....was Thanos planning to do. He really is an idiot.
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Dec 7, 2017 09:12
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his name is Thanos, not Planos
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Dec 7, 2017 09:27
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At least Namor got in an "Imperius Rex!" line and imapled Doom with his trident before being vaporized. I feel like Thanos felt stirred enough poo poo that he tried to talk a ton of smack before getting killed. Like he knew he was going to die but he really REALLY didn't think he was going to straight up get FATALITY-ed on himself. Thanos was really good overall in Secret Wars and The Wall.
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Dec 7, 2017 09:27
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Wouldn't Thanos be delighted to die?
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Dec 7, 2017 10:53
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Jerusalem posted:Wouldn't Thanos be delighted to die? Sometimes.
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Dec 7, 2017 12:18
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I mean at that point in the comics, Doom had essentially usurped the position of all the universal concepts, right? There was no sexy female death for him to go to, just a scarred Eastern European man in an iron mask.
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Dec 7, 2017 12:25
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Spanish Matlock posted:I mean at that point in the comics, Doom had essentially usurped the position of all the universal concepts, right? There was no sexy female death for him to go to, just a scarred Eastern European man in an iron mask. Ya. He had the power of all the beyonders, who were shown to easily be able to kill all of the cosmic powers. Later in the issue Doom overpowers the infinity gauntlet.
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Dec 7, 2017 14:34
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Esad Ribic and Ive Svorcina are so loving good
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Dec 7, 2017 16:53
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I love how up until the last panel there, Annihilus is just standing around all "oh I just gotta see how this plays out"
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Dec 8, 2017 04:01
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CharlestheHammer posted:What....was Thanos planning to do. Maybe he thought Doom would try to fight him one-on-one without using any god power. I mean, villains do dumb poo poo like that all the time.
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Dec 8, 2017 19:42
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TwoPair posted:Maybe he thought Doom would try to fight him one-on-one without using any god power. I mean, villains do dumb poo poo like that all the time. It almost worked on Thanos. (Unless that was   )
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Dec 8, 2017 19:43
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Thanos just spent the whole run subverting Doom's entire reality, breaking it down bit by bit. He's already won. He's just there to gloat.
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Dec 8, 2017 19:43
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That was the only point where some people's comments that Hickman was just being a bit of a Doom fanboy with his run sort of stuck for me. It's not like Hickman treated the character poorly or anything (in fact the page leading up to the fatality he comes off as loving badass and a near perfect inversion of Cap facing him down in Infinity Gauntlet), but Thanos' actions there just didn't make sense. I think in one of the earlier Ultimates issues when Thanos is floating in the void it's revealed that he believed he had "miscalculated" a gambit, which is about as far an insight into the confrontation as we get I think. Maybe he thought he'd really call Doom's bluff or flat-out didn't know how much power he really had. It's good to know it left an impression on writers like Ewing enough to address it eitherway.
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Dec 8, 2017 20:07
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Pretty much every panel of OPM chapter 84 is badass.
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Dec 9, 2017 04:04
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Totally awesome rotated MS PAINT text!
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Dec 9, 2017 04:09
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Say Nothing posted:Pretty much every panel of OPM chapter 84 is badass. Oh good, more baffling anime bullshit completely lacking in context.
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Dec 9, 2017 04:54
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