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Gene's first set of reads are not good:GeneX posted:Anyway, if this kerfuffle is giving me anything: Basically waffles on everyone, only not offering an out for Keane & YPM.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:00
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His next comment is on me & YPM yelling at each other, and is also sufficiently in the "says nothing" camp:GeneX posted:That sure was a slapfight over D1 pressuring people for the sake of mediocre reads, yup.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:01
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The next post is also pretty bad. In order: -Awkward LAMIST joke -Empty vote, which honestly is also kinda weird the more I think about it. I usually emptyvote people if we're two real days in to day 3 or something and they're a big questionmark. -Seemingly flipped opinions on Asiina & Keane now, from what? My feeling looking at this is that this list and the list above don't jive very much, and not in a "reads have change my opinion" way. I could swap these lists & you wouldn't know which one came first, which is pretty empty. GeneX posted:I should probably take my jokephase vote of off someone I think is overzealous town, huh
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Dec 13, 2017 03:03
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Here's the other post I was talking about where he moves to Keane. Again this is his third set of reads and they say literally nothing again.GeneX posted:Yeah, it’s an eclectic bunch.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:05
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I guess YPM was right. I'm bored of reading a bunch of words that don't offer any reads and that's a hella scum tactic so ##vote Gene
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Dec 13, 2017 03:06
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 You see what you want to see.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:17
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What? Are you actually standing behind those quotes I posted as "good reads?" Yesterday your defense was "it's D1 of course they're wishywashy," so why isn't that what you're returning to?
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Dec 13, 2017 03:31
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Quidthulhu posted:What? Are you actually standing behind those quotes I posted as "good reads?" Yesterday your defense was "it's D1 of course they're wishywashy," so why isn't that what you're returning to? Because I fundamentally don't respect the argument that what limited thoughts I expressed yesterday, hesitant and cautious though they might be, are valueless.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:47
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Mafia edit: More specifically, it sure looks like you and YPM are bouncing between "hasn't provided anything of value" and "is hesitant to conclude anything, but has given thoughts", which are pretty obviously contradictory reasons to vote for someone. I would rather see what comes of this than try to argue against conflicting reasons to vote for me.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:50
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I don’t think I’ve ever said the latter about you?
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Dec 13, 2017 05:20
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My initial question to you is a reiteration of what I just said:Quidthulhu posted:Hey Gene, how come you didn't move your vote to bowmore if your intent in voting Hal was to get him to talk? Your effort post is really a whole lot of nothing, just some game summary and some "well maybes but maybe nots," and it seems to me if the only thing you're really committing to now is stirring up the people not here you dropping that realization should have included a vote. I could make an argument of you setting up a potential bus of your absent scum buddy with that so what's the dealio I said I liked you for town here but I don't know why looking back on it: Quidthulhu posted:Hal's taking too long. I'm a little confused why he's feeling off about Keane for being suspicious of Mona and then praises Asiina for making basically the same case in his "reread." Feels like a faking mistake. So...what are you getting at here? I just called you wishy-washy and non-committal and your response is basically "no u" except that's not true.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:23
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As I said, I really don't intend to argue about this.
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Dec 13, 2017 07:00
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That’s not a very good defense. Who scum, Gene?
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Dec 13, 2017 08:40
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Well, it wasn't a defense. It was the exact opposite of one, in fact! My current best guess is you and Keane. I think you're deliberately misrepresenting what I'm doing and saying while jumping on YPM's coattails, and I think Keane's general terseness is hiding the fact that he hasn't actually done much other than post reads (and poke Mona). Asiina had an interesting post on Mona (+scattered others) that I like but don't really agree with bits of; her lack of other participation is apparently due to IRL stuff, so while I'd like more from her in general, what I've seen generally makes sense (it's logically consistent and from a viewpoint I can understand). That's townplay. Hal is...there. He's participating, but I honestly don't have much of a read on him at all. He's mostly posted when addressed and, uh, not much otherwise, so I guess I'd lean him scumwards. YPM has had a hard-on for lynching me from jokephase on, which...ok. I guess it could be some kind of scum drive to lynch town, but it sure looks to me like he's got it in his head that I'm scum and nothing but my eventual/potential town flip will change that. That kind of behavior does not seem like a scum thing at all, and I'd be honestly shocked if he was. Monathin still reads to me like overzealous town based on how he jumped on me so quickly, though the retreat into abasing himself and his play kinda feels like new scum bashing themselves to make town think better of them. Wouldn't lynch him right now, but I could see him being scum. Flerp hasn't posted much, but I've agreed in general with what little he has said. The latter makes me feel good about him, the frontside a bit worse. Overall, though, probably town. If I had to actually rank people, from scum to town: Quid Keane Hal Mona Flerp Asiina YPM Me One last thing I'll say about your case: maybe my "wishy-washy" reads are really me posting everything I'm considering about people, refusing to condense it into "he scum/he town" so that other people can actually consider my reasoning alongside my point. If I don't actually have strong reads, I'd rather say that than lie. I suppose I'll ##vote Quidthulhu, then, even if I'm not expecting much of it.
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Dec 13, 2017 10:09
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Outside of posting reads and a case, I haven't done much, I agree. In related news, Tom Brady hasn't done much other than throw a football, smh smh.
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Dec 13, 2017 14:13
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I would argue that making one reasonably solid vote, posting “I think these dudes are town and these orher dudes are scum”, and pretty much nothing else is maybe the bare minimum one can do without basically just lurking. Like, where’s the reasoning? The questioning of others? The follow-up on the vote? There’s a lot more that can be done during the day, and giving as little as possible for others to work with is frankly good scum strategy and poor town play. I dunno, I’m starting to think this is a whole bunch of culture shock.
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Dec 13, 2017 16:41
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GeneX posted:I would argue that making one reasonably solid vote, posting “I think these dudes are town and these orher dudes are scum”, and pretty much nothing else is maybe the bare minimum one can do without basically just lurking. I mean, you're throwing a lot of words and saying very little, so different strokes.
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Dec 13, 2017 16:55
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God damnit quid just listen to me next time instead of calling me scum and then making the same case as me GeneX posted:Well, it wasn't a defense. It was the exact opposite of one, in fact! My favorite part about this is he still gives himself outs in all of his reads and even his vote
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Dec 13, 2017 19:13
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Yeah my bad, YPM. I think Gene’s play stands for itself and he should be the dunk for today~
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Dec 13, 2017 19:18
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I, too, am unable to distinguish between “people do good things and bad things, but on balance, they’re X” and “refusing to commit”.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:27
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GeneX posted:I, too, am unable to distinguish between “people do good things and bad things, but on balance, they’re X” and “refusing to commit”. Except you provide equivocations for the individual actions, not just the alignments. There is a difference between “Boy I don’t know about that Hal, he did kick that puppy but he also once held the door open for me, I think he’s probably town” vs “Boy I don’t know about that Hal, he kicked a puppy which could be scummy depending on if the dog has ever hurt anyone in the past but also it’s a dog so it’s scummy, and he also held the door open for me which might be scummy if he was going to close it really fast hitting me in the butt but just missed, but he’s probably town” One gives clear insight into your thought process, the other is just you barfing every possible scenario and coming to an arbitrary conclusion
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Dec 13, 2017 20:55
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Your Personal Muse posted:Except you provide equivocations for the individual actions, not just the alignments. There is a difference between The problem is that the second thing is my thought process, and I'm laying it out so that other people can examine each individual bit of it, but thanks, now I actually get where you're coming from. Like, sincerely. Even though you're barking up the wrong tree, I can actually see why you think what you do now.
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Dec 13, 2017 21:09
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Alright. ##vote:Gene
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Dec 13, 2017 22:22
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Your Personal Muse posted:Except you provide equivocations for the individual actions, not just the alignments. There is a difference between This is a good post, but I wouldn't want to use it to build a fence, so overall it cancels out.
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Dec 13, 2017 22:23
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I suppose I’ll be validated in death.
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Dec 14, 2017 00:35
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I'd say I'm not entirely convinced of the case on Gene, but I feel like if Gene's not gonna make an attempt to defend when he was willing to defend my attempt to catch him out in a lie, then I feel like the case sort of makes itself. ##vote GeneX
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Dec 14, 2017 01:52
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That's -2. Asiina, Hal, want to chime in?
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Dec 14, 2017 02:00
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I feel like there's a fundamental misunderstanding of what I've done and do, and that it's more or less pointless to argue against the case made, since it would require me to renounce how I play, and have successfully played, the game of forums mafia. I really want to know YPM's deal in postgame though.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:07
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Mafia Edit: we have 8 alive, I'm pretty sure we're at H-1, not H-2. I'm not gonna self-vote out of common courtesy, but I'll do it if we'd otherwise no lynch so I'm not an easy target tomorrow. No point in giving scum 2 NKs+a mislynch when we can give them just the one NK.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:09
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Mafia Edit 2: Oh, YPM isn't voting for me. Interesting.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:15
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Where is this mythical off-site place you play, Gene, I'm very curious about a lot of your colloquialisms
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Dec 14, 2017 02:21
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Man I was starting to doubt my read on you and then you throw that limp wristed shade at me.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:22
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Like what’s interesting about me not voting you one day from lynch? Do you really think I’m going to be able to back out of credit for your lynch after wanting it from the start of day 1 if I’m not voting you? And why is the case all the sudden so confusing after saying that you understood where I was coming from? My deal is that I think you are scum, I caused you, and people are starting to agree.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:29
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Quidthulhu posted:Where is this mythical off-site place you play, Gene, I'm very curious about a lot of your colloquialisms Well, multiple places. Played a bunch back on the MSPA forums when I was a young 'un and way too into homestuck, migrated to a few of the offsites from that when its games subforum got nuked, and most recently played a manual game at Mafia Universe. Also, love you too, YPM. Didn't intend to throw shade, though the "interesting" is indeed a bit much. (I predict that you'll read this as me trying to get back on a potential good side of yours, but no, it really isn't.)
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Dec 14, 2017 02:34
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I thought you were voting me and I was one away from hammer, but you weren't and I wasn't. It's really that simple. Your actual case is fine, your laser focus from jokephase on is a bit weird, given that your case then was garbage. It's just too weird to be a scum tactic, is the thing, but it's still weird.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:37
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Hal? Asiina? Thoooughts?
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Dec 14, 2017 18:31
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I'm sleepy.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:26
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Really though, your case seems pretty good but also you could be full of it because I haven't checked it myself to see how true it is. It seems reasonable on the surface, but also you could be scum making poo poo up and I'd have no idea. I really shouldn't have signed up for a game when I'm doing like 18 hour days in different cities.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:28
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Maybe the scum always steal Christmas because these games are poorly timed and have low participation 
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Dec 14, 2017 22:08
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I doubt I'm going to be back in time to actually give this a read so welp, let's apathy vote. ##vote Gene If the game is open over the weekend, I should maybe hopefully have more time? That's -1
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Dec 14, 2017 22:14
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