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I think the refusal to pay CryTek, or honor any part of their agreement, was a calculated move based on CIG's prediction that CryTek was no longer a going concern, eventually rendering the contract null and void. Perhaps some of the CryTek poaching was intended to tip the scales even further in that direction and hasten their demise, releasing CIG from all those obligations at once. But then how to maintain the engine? Ah, along comes Amazon with LumberYard. Well this is convenient! We'll just hop in bed with these guys, since CryTek will be dissolved any day now, and there will be nobody to hold us to account. Any day.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:14
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Crazypoops posted:lol, do you guys think Erin doesn't know they didn't buy it? I take everything at surface value and assign it all the weight it deserves. I like to model these things out as well, because nothing rings true about what Erin said. Buying out the source is buying out Crytek. Scruffpuff posted:I think the refusal to pay CryTek, or honor any part of their agreement, was a calculated move based on CIG's prediction that CryTek was no longer a going concern, eventually rendering the contract null and void. Perhaps some of the CryTek poaching was intended to tip the scales even further in that direction and hasten their demise, releasing CIG from all those obligations at once. Crytek UK -> Dambusters under Deep Silver. I suspect that they thought the writing was on the wall when Crytek went through that restructure in 2014 that caused the old free radical team to get thrown out there. I think you're right. I also think that this is Crytek leveraging, so it's going to be interesting. Hav fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 23:14
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Lladre posted:It is going to be hilarious when this all blows over and nothing changes, and the tracker slowly climbs their 68k a day.. every hosed over partner, everyone they owe money to, anyone that even thinks they might not get cashed out from roberts n co is going to start coming to collect what's theirs I'm not overstating when I say this is a huge loving deal
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Dec 13, 2017 23:15
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Zzr posted:Well I won't go to my parent's for Christmas and the tasty food. When the 24 they call because they are worried I'm not here, I'll just answer "sorry maman, I've been full for two weeks and can't take more, and I'll be full for another two weeks." Solidarity, I shall, too, abstain!
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Dec 13, 2017 23:15
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quote:“We are aware of the Crytek complaint having been filed in the US District Court. CIG hasn’t used the CryEngine for quite some time since we switched to Amazon’s Lumberyard. This is a meritless lawsuit that we will defend vigorously against, including recovering from Crytek any costs incurred in this matter.” https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/941068666619224064 ----------------
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Dec 13, 2017 23:15
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Hav posted:Yeah, everything's going to go hella quiet for a while until they come up with a framework that pleases both sides....but....I'm just getting this really sharky vibe reading the paperwork. I imagine it won't even begin to compare to coutts finding out the collateral for their loan is being contested legally
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Dec 13, 2017 23:15
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SomethingJones posted:"We are aware of the Crytek complaint having been filed in the US District Court. CIG hasn’t used the CryEngine for quite some time since we switched to Amazon’s Lumberyard. This is a meritless lawsuit that we will defend vigorously against, including recovering from Crytek any costs incurred in this matter." now where have I heard that before... Something about a letter where some lawyer threatened someone with a lawsuit about doxxing? Wasn't there some kind of response? It was somewhere in this thread, I can't remember who was involved...
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Dec 13, 2017 23:15
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TheAgent posted:from a dev friend lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWKpwgemTtM
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Dec 13, 2017 23:16
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Crytek Sues Star Citizen Makers For Breaching Contractquote:When asked to comment by Kotaku, CIG sent over a statement: “We are aware of the Crytek complaint having been filed in the US District Court. CIG hasn’t used the CryEngine for quite some time since we switched to Amazon’s Lumberyard. This is a meritless lawsuit that we will defend vigorously against, including recovering from Crytek any costs incurred in this matter.”
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Dec 13, 2017 23:18
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Scruffpuff posted:I think the refusal to pay CryTek, or honor any part of their agreement, was a calculated move based on CIG's prediction that CryTek was no longer a going concern, eventually rendering the contract null and void. Perhaps some of the CryTek poaching was intended to tip the scales even further in that direction and hasten their demise, releasing CIG from all those obligations at once. I think they intended to buy them out with all the money they don't have
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Dec 13, 2017 23:19
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I imagine it won't even begin to compare to coutts finding out the collateral for their loan is being contested legally British private banking tends towards the discreet. Right up until someone kicks down the doors, but these are how those African nations launder money. After Switzerland rolled over, a number of smaller tax havens sprang into action for the large scale hiding of readies. Wow, they're pushing out the single statement. They were caught off guard. 17 US Code chain 504 - "In establishing the infringer’s profits, the copyright owner is required to present proof only of the infringer’s gross revenue, and the infringer is required to prove his or her deductible expenses and the elements of profit attributable to factors other than the copyrighted work." Hope the tracker is accurate. Hav fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 23:20
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spacetoaster posted:Somebody else did it. I wanted crobbler's face on there, you know the one I'm thinking of. We can all imagine it, though.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:21
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VictorianQueerLit posted:This is the current rock in a raging river backers are clinging onto for dear life. Semantics on what the engine is and how lumberyard invalidates the entire contract, instantly blowing up the death star. Well, the pretty funny thing is that they're hosed no matter what the truth is ( assuming Crytek's claims are right ofc ). If they indeed switched to LY, that was against the terms that said they should use CE exclusively. If they did not switch, showing the source-code to Faceware was against the terms that said they needed to seek authorization before doing so. Pick up your poison. Nyast fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 23:21
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Always more, always worse. We going to see bankruptcy proceedings before Christmas?
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Dec 13, 2017 23:22
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Hav posted:British private banking tends towards the discreet. Right up until someone kicks down the doors, but these are how those African nations launder money. oh yeah it'll be quiet externally, but I have a feeling they're going to be expressing some amount of Extreme Displeasure with CIG right now
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Dec 13, 2017 23:22
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https://twitter.com/FacewareTech/status/941066507911680000
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Dec 13, 2017 23:23
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TheAgent posted:naw, like derek said, this is the first stumble down a long flight of stairs Turbulent can't get a payday until there's an early access release, is that right? And that would be the day that 3.0 hits the public servers?
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Dec 13, 2017 23:23
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Scruffpuff posted:I think the refusal to pay CryTek, or honor any part of their agreement, was a calculated move based on CIG's prediction that CryTek was no longer a going concern, eventually rendering the contract null and void. Perhaps some of the CryTek poaching was intended to tip the scales even further in that direction and hasten their demise, releasing CIG from all those obligations at once. Yeah, I guess they werent expecting some rich arab guy to start financing Crytek and moving to instabul or whatever
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Dec 13, 2017 23:24
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Milky Moor posted:Nope. I'm not seeing evidence in Bugsmashers that they switched to LY. The copyright header comes from LY. The crash dialog box showing "Cryengine" in the title bar might a meaningless remnant of the original version of CE inside LY.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:26
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SomethingJones posted:I think they intended to buy them out with all the money they don't have Yeah I'm pretty sure that Croberts was delusional enough to think that the game would be out by end of 2016 or whatever then generate $500 million in sales as he suggested it would. Then it would be easy to settle out of court and buy a couple more sports cars.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:26
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 What a day. 
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Dec 13, 2017 23:26
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When I saw hundreds of new posts in the thread I thought "oh god not another slapfight", but it was so much more amazing So what happens if they get their injunction, anyway? Just "sorry backers, no more Star Citizen for you until we're done in court"?
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Dec 13, 2017 23:28
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https://twitter.com/MootoosamyBryan/status/941044492127428608
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Dec 13, 2017 23:28
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Seriously if there is merit and in this (which very likely seems so unless Crytek is pulling poo poo out of their rear end) then CIG willingly went into contract with some other people (Amazon) when they couldn't legally do so without breaching their contract. If this has happened before, whats to say they didn't do the same exact thing with Coutts on things like their assets?
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Dec 13, 2017 23:29
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So crytek effectively stopped 3.0 from getting out to the public before end of year.. Christmas miracles do happen!
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Dec 13, 2017 23:29
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"Preorder is coming in early 2018." Jesus Christ, these people literally have no shame. The ability to preorder something is ITSELF being treated as a product. "Coming soon!" Fuckers, it's a goddamned preorder! You don't advertise a release date for the ability to pay for something you don't even have yet! 
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Dec 13, 2017 23:29
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TheAgent posted:from a dev friend lol 
Raskolnikov fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 23:30
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Bofast posted:If they did switch, why would today's episode of Bugsmashers have a CryEngine error message popup? One would think Amazon would have changed that in LY. Allright, let me try to explain this as simply as possible. LY is built on top of a previous version of CE, right ? Therefore any code that is present in this older version of CE that LY is built upon, cannot be used as "proof" of a switch to LY. To prove that they switched to LY, you have to look at the code that *changed* between CE and LY. And see whether it's still using the CE version, or the new LY version. The CryEngine error message popup can happen either if you're on vanilla CE, either if you've switched to LY. In summary: it proves nothing one way or another.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:31
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If none of these gaming outlets makes a jokes about transitioning from spacesuits to lawsuits I'm going to be pretty upset.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:31
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Foo Diddley posted:When I saw hundreds of new posts in the thread I thought "oh god not another slapfight", but it was so much more amazing No, they'll say "we're defending it vigorously" while they get absolutely raped in court. When the injunction hits and CIG starts auctioning off their office poo poo, backers will all agree that this is good for Star Citizen and pledge more. The site will be down, so backers will just stuff cash in envelopes and some guy named "Chris Roberts" in the Northwest Territories will start getting them in the mail, because nobody of importance in the US or in the UK has ever heard of the Chris Roberts who made "Wing Commander" decades ago.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:32
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Bofast posted:So, if the "exclusively use CryEngine" part of the lawsuit is correct, they just admitted outright that they are in breach of contract? I'm playing the devil's advocate here but.. maybe their defense is simply that LY, being based off CE means that they did not really switch to another engine ? That, or they'll claim that the licensing contract was ambiguous and that switching to another engine wasn't forbidden.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:32
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Bofast posted:So, if the "exclusively use CryEngine" part of the lawsuit is correct, they just admitted outright that they are in breach of contract? Pretty much. However, it might be a big “if”. Standard licensing agreements do not usually require the use of the intellectual property, they just permit its use. It would be a nonstandard term if it actually requires the use of the CryEngine. Not saying it isn’t possible, but the complaint does use only very limited quotes from the relevant agreement. I really want to see the whole document (or at least all of section 2.1.2) to get a handle on how meritorious he lawsuit is.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:33
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Dec 13, 2017 23:33
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Seriously if there is merit and in this (which very likely seems so unless Crytek is pulling poo poo out of their rear end) then CIG willingly went into contract with some other people (Amazon) when they couldn't legally do so without breaching their contract. If this has happened before, whats to say they didn't do the same exact thing with Coutts on things like their assets? We'll know more soon but as others haven mentioned they were hoping that either a) Crytek goes under or b) Their game comes out two weeks from now and generates $500 million in sales and they buy the rest of crytek with it. Neither has happened. Also lawsuit can't be frivolous because of the firm involved. Skadden wouldn't take on a case without doing a lot of research and seeing $25 million+ settlement ahead. If CIG actually IS insolvent as Derek claims, then not only they go down but Crytek as well. Because Crytek won't be able to recover the legal fees which will be $10-15 million after all is said and done. And Crytek is barely hanging on as is. Croberts will annihilate two companies with his incompetence. It's glorious. Everyone who touched the poop will get hosed. Except the lawyers who will make a lot of money, of course.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:33
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TheAgent posted:naw, like derek said, this is the first stumble down a long flight of stairs Legal wants its pound of flesh. Legal is hungry.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:35
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Hav posted:I take everything at surface value and assign it all the weight it deserves. I just think it would be hilarious. Chris has the contract stuffed between some Porsche magazine as a bookmark somewhere and didn't tell anyone they couldn't switch engines.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:37
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Nyast posted:I'm playing the devil's advocate here but.. maybe their defense is simply that LY, being based off CE means that they did not really switch to another engine ? quote:"We are aware of the Crytek complaint having been filed in the US District Court. CIG hasn’t used the CryEngine for quite some time since we switched to Amazon’s Lumberyard. This is a meritless lawsuit that we will defend vigorously against, including recovering from Crytek any costs incurred in this matter."
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Dec 13, 2017 23:38
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MinorInconvenience posted:Pretty much. However, it might be a big “if”. Standard licensing agreements do not usually require the use of the intellectual property, they just permit its use. It would be a nonstandard term if it actually requires the use of the CryEngine. Not saying it isn’t possible, but the complaint does use only very limited quotes from the relevant agreement. I really want to see the whole document (or at least all of section 2.1.2) to get a handle on how meritorious he lawsuit is. Crytek licensed CryEngine at a cut down price to CIG as long as they used it to build Star Citizen and all of that was written into the contract and was broken so now it appears in the lawsuit. The only bit of the contract you need to see is included in the lawsuit, I don't know what else you need to see to determine its merit. The piece of the contract they are in breach of is copied in the lawsuit and listed as a fact in the case.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:39
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Foo Diddley posted:When I saw hundreds of new posts in the thread I thought "oh god not another slapfight", but it was so much more amazing poo poo gets complicated. The injunction would stop any work with the copywritten work, so if they did manage to keep things at least nominally separated, you should be able to port over to lumberyard. The problem is that we've been pondering this for a while after the 64 bit stuff and the references to 'starengine' with the idea that they might have altered the core code _Assuming_ that it was theirs. If so, then they have to remake their code in Lumberyard, assuming that they can. Nyast posted:I'm playing the devil's advocate here but.. maybe their defense is simply that LY, being based off CE means that they did not really switch to another engine ? The defendants have indicated multiple times that they've shifted engines. They had a GLA not to shift engines. Turmoil. Another defense, that they aren't using any of cryengine anymore. Okay, lets prove that, but put the injunction in place to stop further damage. Turmoil. Seriously, the biggest part of this is the GLA that we're getting a glimpse into. They have _paper_, presumably signed, that indicated intent. A failure to follow through on that intent is a breach of contract, and that's pretty much the whole thing without the copyright claims, or the bad faith in negotiations. That last thing; "On November 20, 2012, Crytek and Defendants entered into a Game License Agreement ("GLA") with Crytek. The GLA was extensively negotiated, and negotiations on behalf of the Defendants were led by one of the Defendants' co-founders, Freyermuth. In prior years, Freyermuth also represented Crytek in negotiations of similar license agreements with third parties. Notwithstanding that he had confidential information about Crytek's licensing practices that would unfairly advantage Defendants, Freyermuth never recused himself from those negotiations and never resolved that conflict of interest with Crytek. The negotiations on behalf of Crytek were led by Carl Jones, then an employee of Crytek. Jones later left Crytek and became an employee of Defendants." I've still not figured out what they're going for; switching engines would put the infringe date at around late 2016. But breaking the GLA was almost immediate. Hav fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 23:40
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The first rule of lawyer club is to say NOTHING. Jesus Christ cig.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:41
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