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juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?


heh crytek more like... cry... tek... am i right fellow shitizens?

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SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3
From the FDev forum
This is from user 'ZeeWolf' posted in response to a question about Erin's comment that they'd bought the engine outright. This is all over my head e: but seems to be saying that the license is perpetual? As in you don't get to terminate it?


ZeeWolf posted:

They bought a source code licence. That's standard practice and applies when companies partner up with all kinds of vendors where the product is offering something that essentially provides a high amount of risk should the product fail (CMS, Web platforms, API, engines etc.)

Quite often there will be a standard set of licences that may include compiled core libraries. If the vendor goes out of business (very common) the clients using their platform for essential business are suddenly unable to upgrade essential parts of their platform. This makes it impossible to deal with larger organisations. The solution is to offer the complete source code under licence, this way if the vendor goes down the customer can continue to fork the original product as their own.

In the meantime, while the vendor is still active they are still under all of the terms & conditions agreed with the vendor. If it's a perpetual licence you still have to pay for it annually or whatever. If the agreement involved displaying the vendors product logo that still needs to be continued. Buying a source code licence doesn't mean you own the IP. You can't just fork it and sell it as your own super new engine just because you own a source licence.

I've worked on some pretty big web platforms using CMS products and the clients will typically buy the full source code licence.

lazorexplosion
Mar 19, 2016

This is amazing and the fact that Derek Smart Called It is the cherry that makes it perfect in every way

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009


MarcusSA posted:

Man gently caress this guy.

He's already hosed himself. Just strap in and wait for bankruptcy at this point. Schaudenfruede is pretty great.

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



SomethingJones posted:

Knowing Derek whatever else is going to spill out is going to be, dare I say it, more and worse

It's not out of the realm of possibility that a RICO investigation is underway, given that CIG meets the structural requirements (RICO is not just for mafia dons anymore) for the statute to apply and the speculation about money laundering.

Whether they determine the criminal acts, if any occurred, warrant a RICO indictment is yet to be determined.

However, I think that if there is a third-party confirmation that a RICO investigation is currently underway or a RICO indictment is issued, then CIG is done - regardless of whether there is ultimately a conviction.

I don't think anyone wants to be associated with a RICO target.

El Grillo
Jan 3, 2008
Fun Shoe
Have any forum internet lawyers has a good look at the pleadings yet? What's the verdict? Also are there pre-action protocols in the USA/the relevant states requiring parties to pursue ADR solutions before issuing proceedings?

Conspiratiorist posted:

Jason Schrier can eat poo poo tho
Why (out of interest?)

it dont matter
Aug 29, 2008

kw0134 posted:

Yeah, at the point where you're getting into the weeds of what's a "profit" so you can minimize your adverse judgment the case has gone very very badly for you. And there are all sorts of knock-on effects well before that step like loss of consumer confidence, employee morale is shot, if it's not already completely absent, other carrion birds circling the corpse ready to extract their share.

This looks bad, smells bad, and even healthy companies would find such a suit highly distracting at best. CIG is not a healthy company; draw your own conclusions.

Yeah they're turbofucked. The very best case is this is without merit and thrown out the moment it gets in front of a judge, and there's no other 100% guaranteed legal action coming their way (lol).

Even then it will have (or has?) done so much damage to their already terrible reputation they'll never recover. It'll be that much harder to hire staff, and the backers they rely on will lose confidence. They aren't a normal company with a viable product and steady income, they're operating on presales in the hope of actually finishing something one day and it being a huge success.

Star citizen is a big joke and is going to go down in infamy. Crobbers legacy is going to be overseeing one of the biggest disasters in gaming history.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao
https://i.imgur.com/Y2IPafU.gifv

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

SomethingJones posted:

From the FDev forum
This is from user 'ZeeWolf' posted in response to a question about Erin's comment that they'd bought the engine outright. This is all over my head e: but seems to be saying that the license is perpetual? As in you don't get to terminate it?

Actually, you can download the CryEngine for free off of their website, so CIG has done nothing wrong by redistributing what was already free.

No, I haven't read the terms of service, why do you ask?

ZekeNY
Jun 13, 2013

Probably AFK

Dooguk posted:

Fancy City Lawyer: "Is the person who committed this heinous crime in this courtroom"

Warlord For The Prosecution "Yes your lordship"

Fancy City Lawyer "Would you point him out to the court"

Warlord points across the courtroom, to a hunched figure, clad in a not very slimming little black number.

Warlord: "It woz 'im. It was Croberts wot done it"

Judge dons a black cap.

Everybody cheers.

The end.

Judge: "The defendant will rise to be sentenced. In the last 500 years, the Fourth Stimpire has dominated four systems . . ."

intardnation
Feb 18, 2016

I'm going to space!

:gary: :yarg:

MinorInconvenience posted:

Eh. Maybe. But the damages awarded (if any) isn't what will kill CIG. The litigation costs alone likely will. It's loving Skadden Arps. As much as I hate those fuckers, they can throw an army at you.

Just remember, modern American litigation is no different that the old "trial by combat" of the medieval times. Just instead of muscles and sword skills, it's intelligence and oratorical skills. Skadden is the 7' armor-clad badass going after the 50 pound midget here.

Dont forget about Coutts holding the loan and the ramifications of that.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer


Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

I think more than cig is like to see the ultra hard line backers get slapped down by these lawyers too

Guys like Clifford who have cheered cig on for years while they fleece cash hand over fist , come on Clifford write another nice tweet and make it real nasty. Lawyers love when you get nasty with them

A Neurotic Corncob
Nov 12, 2016

A light wind swept over the corn, and all nature laughed in the sunshine.
https://i.imgur.com/i2RbqNY.mp4

mjotto
Nov 8, 2017

SomethingJones posted:

From the FDev forum
This is from user 'ZeeWolf' posted in response to a question about Erin's comment that they'd bought the engine outright. This is all over my head e: but seems to be saying that the license is perpetual? As in you don't get to terminate it?

No, you buy the right to use the product (code). As long as the code company exists, you have to pay them for the license. Now, if the code company were to fall over, you have build a product based on code from a company that no longer can support/maintain that code. That will kill your business as well in the long run. In case that happens, you have the right to use the code as were it your code. So even if the original code company doesn't exist anymore, you can add, change, upgrade etc. the code yourself. But you can't do that as long a the original code company exists. Is basically a guarantee that you can use somebody elses code without risking you company along the way too.

This might has been a guess that Chris took. If CryTek would go bankrupt, he could have continued to use his custom CE code without having to pay for it. That's probably why he didn't pay them, just waiting for them to fall over and having an engine for free. When Amazon saved CryTek, Chris knew he was hosed and had to pay CryTek. By switching to Lumberyard, he tried to avoid those costs. Probably.

mjotto fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Dec 14, 2017

Dooguk
Oct 11, 2016

Pillbug

ZekeNY posted:

Judge: "The defendant will rise to be sentenced. In the last 500 years, the Fourth Stimpire has dominated four systems . . ."

LOL perfect ending.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Dying!

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Crobbler: No, your Honor!

Judge: There's no hope for him now. He's sufferin'. You know we gotta do it.

Crobbler: I know, your Honor... But Star Citizen was my game... I'll do it.

Drunk Theory
Aug 20, 2016


Oven Wrangler

:bravo: That stupid smug smile works really well for this.

Abuminable
Mar 30, 2017

Now, aside from the Abuminable, business goes on as usual.

turn off the TV posted:

Actually, you can download the CryEngine for free off of their website, so CIG has done nothing wrong by redistributing what was already free.

Let's get this guy in front of the judge and CIG will be off the hook in mere minutes.

intardnation
Feb 18, 2016

I'm going to space!

:gary: :yarg:

The Titanic posted:

:lol:

Sorry, Bribase. You’re a goon. You can’t just go around denying it now.

Hahaha

He just needs to post his balls

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016


:five:

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX
holy loving poo poo derek called it!!!!

Foo Diddley
Oct 29, 2011

cat

:drat:

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat

PrimeNerd posted:

The reason I think it involved that door is one of the defendants was an electrical contractor. It could be something even dumber like putting in electrical drops for the artists workstations. I can't come up with something dumber but this is CIG we are talking about, it is probably way way stupider.

I can understand that, but that lawsuit was already filed before the wall that the door was put into was torn down.
it may also be from their prior studio before the one they moved into that has the door and the permanent hobo van parked outside.
I really want to know who the hell lived there, are they a CiG employee?
This guy.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.030...8i6656?hl=en-US

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

G0RF posted:

Dying!

https://twitter.com/commando_tom/status/941105512669736961

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer
https://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/12/13/crytek_hates_star_citizen_squadron_42

MinorInconvenience
Feb 24, 2017

Criminal lawyer or criminal, lawyer. Yeah. No difference.

SomethingJones posted:

From the FDev forum
This is from user 'ZeeWolf' posted in response to a question about Erin's comment that they'd bought the engine outright. This is all over my head e: but seems to be saying that the license is perpetual? As in you don't get to terminate it?

Perpetual intellectual property licenses are a thing, and it does mean that you "own" it. Courts treat it as a property right, instead of a terminable contract. The question is whether there are rights going the other way (from licensor to licensee). Those are not usually considered to be property rights... just contract rights. I might be too far into the bottle to be clear here. But that seems to be the crux of the argument Crytek is making. Can't wait to see the result. Althought suspect CIG is so cash poor that any result will end up with them in some form of Title 11 of the U.S. Code (i.e., bankruptcy) administration. Hold on to your seats, boys, 'cause this ride is gonna get bumpy.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

juggalo baby coffin posted:

i'm worried that because this is hell world CIG will somehow wriggle out of this

No, there is no other road than 100% comedy here.
Take for example the best case scenario for backers - CIG wins, Crytek are defeated and Star Citizen releases.
Every. single. time. a backer loads the game up, there will be a Crytek logo there and every time the backer will feel impotent rage. Each session in the 'Universe will begin with a feeling of resentment.
:lol:

Abuminable
Mar 30, 2017

Now, aside from the Abuminable, business goes on as usual.
This will be the most-watched ATV ever.

mjotto
Nov 8, 2017
Star Citizen: Crytek can suck my Lumberyard

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


James Y. Pak Counsel, Intellectual Property Litigation

James Y. Pak focuses his practice on litigating intellectual property matters, including patent infringement, copyright infringement and trade secret misappropriation.

Bio posted:

In addition to litigation, his practice also involves counseling companies on acquiring, evaluating, licensing and protecting intellectual property assets. He has assisted companies in transactions including corporate mergers and acquisitions and patent portfolio acquisitions.

Mr. Pak’s computer science background and experience in the software industry provides him with a detailed understanding of computer-related technology. Mr. Pak’s technical interests include operating systems security. He has written software in a number of languages including C, C++, Java and assembly. He has significant experience representing companies on matters involving complex technologies, including computer source code, wireless communications, data messaging, storage systems, databases, digital imaging, computer graphics, encryption and virtual reality.

Recently, Mr. Pak was a key member of the trial team that achieved a $500 million jury verdict on behalf of ZeniMax Media Inc. and its subsidiary id Software, LLC in a federal lawsuit against Oculus VR, LLC and Facebook, Inc. alleging intellectual property violations.

Mr. Pak has represented, among others, JPMorgan Chase & Co.; Virgin Mobile USA, LLC; Research In Motion Limited; Comerica Inc.; Credit Acceptance Corp., Rocket Software, Inc.; Viewpointe Archive Services L.L.C.; Aspen Technology, Inc.; Xiaomi, Inc.; ZeniMax Media Inc.; and id Software LLC. He has successfully represented clients in jury trials in the U.S. District Courts for the Eastern, Northern and Southern Districts of Texas, as well as trials before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

Mr. Pak is a member of the Skadden group recognized by Law360 among its 2015 Technology Practice Groups of the Year for successes on behalf of clients in the technology sector.

Kevin J. Minnick Counsel, Litigation

Kevin Minnick's practice focuses on large-scale class action defense, primarily involving consumer protection and securities laws. He also has represented clients in qui tam, patent and appellate matters.

Bio posted:

Mr. Minnick's clients include companies in the financial services, apparel, automobile, real estate and health care industries.

Mr. Minnick’s experience includes the following representative matters:
  • Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. in state and federal litigation involving allegations of unintended acceleration. Mr. Minnick assisted the lead trial lawyer in defending the depositions of several top executives, regularly contributed to key briefs, and served as liaison between Skadden and virtual law firm affiliates during the pretrial phase of the first unintended acceleration bellwether case;
  • Purdue Pharma, L.P. in securing a stay of all proceedings in litigation brought by Orange and Santa Clara counties against several pharmaceutical companies, which sought to broadly enjoin the industry’s marketing activity. Mr. Minnick was a key member of the briefing team that successfully argued that all state court proceedings should remain stayed under theories of primary jurisdiction and equitable abstention pending further studies by the FDA;
  • Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. in obtaining a highly favorable jury verdict against allegations of discrimination in mortgage rates. Mr. Minnick presented the oral argument for Wells Fargo’s proposed jury instructions, winning a key legal ruling that prohibited the plaintiffs from recovering millions in prejudgment interest. After the trial, a Los Angeles Superior Court jury awarded damages for less than 1.5 percent of the mortgages written by Wells Fargo in Los Angeles County during the class period. The case is the first class action ever tried to verdict under California’s Unruh Civil Rights Act;
  • LaSalle Bank, N.A. (now Bank of America) in winning dismissal of five related class actions that alleged the lender aided and abetted a fraudulent real estate investment scheme. Mr. Minnick co-drafted the winning briefs, which secured a full dismissal with prejudice of all claims against the lender before any discovery took place; and
  • The Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, on a pro bono basis, in the filing of a U.S. Supreme Court amicus brief supporting the right to free speech and peaceful protest on public roads in California.
Mr. Minnick was selected by the National LGBT Bar Association as one of the Best LGBT Lawyers Under 40 – Class of 2017. He also serves on the board of governors of the LGBT Bar Association of Los Angeles and on the Bet Tzedek New Leadership Council.

P. Anthony Sammi Partner, Intellectual Property Litigation

P. Anthony Sammi is head of the Intellectual Property Litigation Group. He litigates complex, high-profile IP cases at the trial and appellate levels.

Bio posted:

Mr. Sammi has widely been recognized in the legal and mainstream press. His cases have been reported on, and he has been quoted by, outlets such as The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, CNBC, Bloomberg, Vanity Fair, BBC News, USA Today and The Hollywood Reporter, among many others. In the legal press, the National Law Journal named Mr. Sammi as one of its 2017 Winning Litigators and has also described his closing arguments in a jury trial as a “virtuoso performance.” Additionally, Mr. Sammi was named to the National Law Journal’s list of 2017 Intellectual Property Trailblazers for being an innovator in his field, was named as one of Law360’s 2017 MVPs for Trials and also has been selected for inclusion in Best Lawyers in America and Lawdragon 500 Leading Lawyers in America.

Mr. Sammi, as lead trial counsel, recently obtained a $500 million jury verdict for leading video game studio clients ZeniMax Media and id Software against Facebook subsidiary Oculus VR and its executives. The case was tried to a jury over three weeks in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas and involved virtual reality technology. The trial included the first-ever cross-examination of Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg in open court and received widespread media coverage. The verdict is the sixth-largest ever awarded for copyright, trademark and/or trade secret claims and the 12th-largest intellectual property verdict including patent claims.

Mr. Sammi also obtained a multimillion-dollar jury verdict, damages award and permanent injunction for trade secret misappropriation and copyright infringement on behalf of a technology company in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas. In another action in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, Mr. Sammi successfully defended a software development firm against a preliminary injunction for copyright infringement sought by a global technology firm.

On the patent side, Mr. Sammi tried the first and only jury trial to verdict brought by the NPE DataTreasury Corporation. In the early 2000’s, DataTreasury brought dozens of lawsuits against all major banks and financial institutions. The impact of these litigations formed the impetus for the America Invents Act. As lead trial counsel in a case before the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Mr. Sammi obtained a final, non-appealable, take-nothing judgment against DataTreasury after a multiweek jury trial in Marshall, Texas.

In addition to first-chairing jury trials in U.S. District Courts and arguing before appellate courts, Mr. Sammi has first-chaired trials before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, pursuant to the America Invents Act. With a background in electrical engineering and physics, Mr. Sammi has litigated a broad range of technologies, including those involving: virtual-reality headsets, first-person shooter and 3D gaming, petrochemical industry modeling software, source code (HLASM, C++, C#), mobile telephone protocols, blood centrifuge devices, satellite on-board stability systems, medical implant devices, sporting equipment, pharmaceuticals, and cosmetics. His practice also includes counseling both U.S. and multinational clients on evaluating, licensing and protecting intellectual property portfolios.

He also is a member of the Skadden group recognized by Law360 among its 2015 “Technology Practice Groups of the Year” for courtroom victories in the technology sector.

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?


how long till you can donate to the star citizen legal fund? this could be their greatest source of income yet

SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3

Golli posted:

It's not out of the realm of possibility that a RICO investigation is underway, given that CIG meets the structural requirements (RICO is not just for mafia dons anymore) for the statute to apply and the speculation about money laundering.

Whether they determine the criminal acts, if any occurred, warrant a RICO indictment is yet to be determined.

However, I think that if there is a third-party confirmation that a RICO investigation is currently underway or a RICO indictment is issued, then CIG is done - regardless of whether there is ultimately a conviction.

I don't think anyone wants to be associated with a RICO target.

At this point nothing would surprise me. Regardless of the outcome that's a criminal investigation happening to the guy who signs your paycheques, gently caress that, nobody wants that poo poo going on trying to do a days work

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009


juggalo baby coffin posted:

how long till you can donate to the star citizen legal fund? this could be their greatest source of income yet

pledge now citizen for a complementary "Ortwins stretched out face on a ship" skin

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Defense: Your honor, we wish to call discolando to the stand.

Judge: Very well. Bailiff, wake the hobo on the steps of this courthouse and lead him in here please.

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



Mirificus posted:

In this corner...

In the Blue Corner, representing the defendants:

freyermuth.net posted:

Ortwin Freyermuth is an internationally recognized and experienced entertain-ment and media lawyer with 25 years of legal and executive experience in the media industry. Freyermuth's law practice focuses on financing, develop-ment, and production of US-European film, television, and games projects, as well as transatlantic corporate set-ups and operations. Over the past 10 years alone, he has worked on, and assisted with the financing and production of feature films, and mini-series as well as the development and publishing of games with a production volume in excess of US$900 million.

Let's have a clean fight!

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012


juggalo baby coffin posted:

how long till you can donate to the star citizen legal fund? this could be their greatest source of income yet

it'll come out as "pledge insurance". give now and ensure your pledge is safe!

it dont matter
Aug 29, 2008

Let's all take a moment to remember this too: even if CIG hasn't drunkenly run through a legal minefield they are still on the hook for the presold game and it's multitude of insane promises like space news vans, super advanced AI and procedural birds. This poo poo was never gonna happen before, it just might fall apart a lot quicker and noisier now.

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AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd/status/941107612732542981

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