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Good Will Hrunting posted:I’m going to throw an unbelievable twist into all of this. I hooked up with a VP level employee. Amazing. If this somehow results in your nemesis getting fired that would be kinda unethical but also really awesome.
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Dec 13, 2017 10:49
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 18:32 |
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Bringing attention to a toxic employee doesn't sound unethical to me.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:03
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Swapping handy-Js for P45s is a core tenet of the business world.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:17
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I’m going to throw an unbelievable twist into all of this. I hooked up with a VP level employee. "An Unbelievable Twist" would be a good name for some genitals.
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Dec 13, 2017 14:28
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Hey all, so I've got a bit of a pickle. I recently (last 6 months) got a ~40% raise as the result of a counter offer. I now have another offer for another ~40% increase in front of me and am wondering if I should even bother asking or just take it. Some background, I like where I am working, but we are moving offices and it's obvious that the new office will seriously damage current culture in a number of ways. I wasn't really looking for another job, but I seem to just be lucky and they find me when things are shaky. I think I would be stupid to turn down this offer, but leaving now will almost certainly seriously rock an already unstable boat. Thoughts?
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Dec 14, 2017 05:18
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Skandranon posted:...but leaving now will almost certainly seriously rock an already unstable boat. Why is that your problem?
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Dec 14, 2017 05:21
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Skandranon posted:Hey all, so I've got a bit of a pickle. I recently (last 6 months) got a ~40% raise as the result of a counter offer. I now have another offer for another ~40% increase in front of me and am wondering if I should even bother asking or just take it. Take it, not your boat, not your problem.
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Dec 14, 2017 05:25
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ultrafilter posted:Why is that your problem? I care about the things I've done, and the people left behind to pick up the pieces. Somewhat.
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Dec 14, 2017 05:25
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Skandranon posted:I care about the things I've done, and the people left behind to pick up the pieces. Somewhat. If the boat's already unstable, then odds are good at least some of them will be leaving anyway.
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Dec 14, 2017 05:34
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:If the boat's already unstable, then odds are good at least some of them will be leaving anyway. This is a big part of me even considering it. If some people leave, things will get worse. Just feels a bit dickish to be the one to kick the process off.
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Dec 14, 2017 05:56
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Skandranon posted:This is a big part of me even considering it. If some people leave, things will get worse. Just feels a bit dickish to be the one to kick the process off. If the business owners can't manage the business it isn't your goddamn job to save it, and you weren't the one who kicked the process off. That was the business owners. Failing to manage the business. If they need a replacement fast they can hire a consultant, it happens all the time, and if they don't, they didn't need you as badly as you thought they did. Unless this new offer comes with a serious quality of life decrease (over and above the problems the new office will cause), then yes: you would be monumentally stupid not to take it. Care about the work you do. The problems you solve. Please do not care about stockholders, a board of directors, and any given interchangeable office space. edit: weren't, not were
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Dec 14, 2017 06:03
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Che Delilas posted:Care about the work you do. The problems you solve. Please do not care about stockholders, a board of directors, and any given interchangeable office space. I'm mostly concerned for some of the junior developers I've mentored, and how this will affect them, I don't particularly care about the business stakeholders. Che Delilas posted:you would be monumentally stupid not to take it. But yes, I'm moving more and more towards this position. Aside from it being a devil I don't know, it does seem to be better on all fronts. I'd be hard pressed to come up with a better opportunity to move on.
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Dec 14, 2017 06:14
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Skandranon posted:This is a big part of me even considering it. If some people leave, things will get worse. Just feels a bit dickish to be the one to kick the process off. I feel this is something most people go through to some extent, even while they're not considering quitting. I knew people who felt guilty taking a week off work for vacation just because of the extra burden it put on everyone else. From my personal experience, I knew I'd be leaving my team in the lurch so I worked really hard to wrap things up and even extended my leaving date. I felt good about it at the time, but years later I regretted not getting out of there sooner.
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Dec 14, 2017 06:14
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If the company has the amount of workers so fine-tuned that no one can ever take any time off.. Well that's on the company then, not on you. No one owes their place of work any more than to simply do the work they've been paid for.
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Dec 14, 2017 06:32
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Skandranon posted:I'm mostly concerned for some of the junior developers I've mentored, and how this will affect them, I don't particularly care about the business stakeholders. I think this is a fair concern, but perhaps staying around is not the best way to help them, rather staying in touch once you've left and using your contacts / writing them a reference letter to help them find somewhere new. Moving on from a sinking ship is sadly just one more thing a dev needs mentoring in these days.
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Dec 14, 2017 07:22
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Skandranon posted:I care about the things I've done, and the people left behind to pick up the pieces. Somewhat. Consider that you may be able to throw others a lifeline from your new boat.
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Dec 14, 2017 08:38
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There's someone scouting me for interest in leaving my current job, I've been here for six months, give or take, and I don't see myself sticking for longer than the 12 months in the contract because of management decisions, but I don't want to answer "why you thinking of changing" with that. Any suggestions?
Honest Thief fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 12:07
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Honest Thief posted:There's someone scouting me for interest in leaving my current job, I've been here for six months, give or take, and I don't see myself sticking for longer than the 12 months in the contract because of management decisions, but I don't want to answer "why you thinking of changing" with that. Any suggestions? I think the general catch-all for "my current job sucks" is "I don't see a lot of personal growth potential / opportunities for advancement / new challenges here"
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Dec 14, 2017 13:29
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Honest Thief posted:There's someone scouting me for interest in leaving my current job, I've been here for six months, give or take, and I don't see myself sticking for longer than the 12 months in the contract because of management decisions, but I don't want to answer "why you thinking of changing" with that. Any suggestions? Anything vonnegutt said or just "It turns out to not be a great fit for me"
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Dec 14, 2017 14:52
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Managed to have a solid 45 minute call with HR yesterday, regardless of being hungover. Boring updates on my front, sorry folks. We're going to do 2-3 week syncs to discuss the search for a new team for me and, on the opposite side, how my team is progressing after she reaches out to my boss's direct report ( ) plus has me talk to their contracted "management consultant" about my team's problems. Well aware that this "consultant" is probably a spy, but whatever.Still looking, of course, just not too aggressively until after the holiday. I've got plenty of money saved up (nearly 10x my monthly expenses in liquid assets which is arguably too much) so I'm not worried if this takes a turn for the worse but I feel pretty hopeful about them trying to find a good team fit for me. HR seemed to really understand where I was coming from aka knows this team is toxic and inefficient.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:42
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Managed to have a solid 45 minute call with HR yesterday, regardless of being hungover. Boring updates on my front, sorry folks. We're going to do 2-3 week syncs to discuss the search for a new team for me and, on the opposite side, how my team is progressing after she reaches out to my boss's direct report ( You can never save too much money. All it takes is one trip to the hospital or one crashed car and boom, all gone.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:39
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Pollyanna posted:You can never save too much money. All it takes is one trip to the hospital or one crashed car and boom, all gone. 10x monthly expenses in cash is a lot though. Even just buying bonds and rolling them over will lose you less money than inflating away your money.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:02
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Skandranon posted:I'm mostly concerned for some of the junior developers I've mentored, and how this will affect them, I don't particularly care about the business stakeholders. Grab coffee with them once a week and try to find the time to climb down from that high horse? Seriously, how central of a role do you see yourself in the arc of their careers? Why can you only continue that effort from within the same company instead of providing a resource for those junior folks merely within the same industry?
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Dec 14, 2017 20:54
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Skandranon posted:I'm mostly concerned for some of the junior developers I've mentored, and how this will affect them, I don't particularly care about the business stakeholders. just give them your non-work contact info (twitter handle, phone number, personal email, whatever) and tell them to reach out if they need a reference or referral or career advice. they'll know what that means
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Dec 14, 2017 20:54
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My best mentor has been the one manager I had who I trusted and also got along with on a friendly level, even though we only worked together for like 10 months at the common company. We've remained super close since he left my last company and he's generally an awesome source for tech problems (we work in similar ecosystems) and career advice. That type of resource is infinitely valuable and arguably as valuable as a good manager because if you develop a close relationship with the former they don't have themselves to protect in a lot of situations like the latter does. Yes, my dude tells me to get out of my company asap
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Dec 14, 2017 21:05
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JawnV6 posted:Grab coffee with them once a week and try to find the time to climb down from that high horse? Seriously, how central of a role do you see yourself in the arc of their careers? Why can you only continue that effort from within the same company instead of providing a resource for those junior folks merely within the same industry? the talent deficit posted:just give them your non-work contact info (twitter handle, phone number, personal email, whatever) and tell them to reach out if they need a reference or referral or career advice. they'll know what that means I do have quite a high opinion of myself... And at least one of them has actually mentioned not knowing what to do if I left, so I'm not completely imagining things. But you guys are right, I can't mother hen them forever. It does feel weird to leave a job I'm not angry at though, my previous jobs I had a reason to leave. Now it's just better opportunities, and that feels very different.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:23
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Skandranon posted:at least one of them has actually mentioned not knowing what to do if I left, so I'm not completely imagining things I mean, as long as we're puffing ourselves up: At an old job I did a rotation with another team for a year. It was a blast for me, essentially staying on the same project when it went to a later phase closer to production instead of hopping to the new hotness, but I really had an effect on one of the guys there. He watched me learn their tools and ramp up to productivity quickly, then started learning from me. When I left that rotation, he looked around and realized he wasn't learning from anyone else there and it was the impetus for him to seek out other opportunities and continue to grow.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:28
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Skandranon posted:Hey all, so I've got a bit of a pickle. I recently (last 6 months) got a ~40% raise as the result of a counter offer. I now have another offer for another ~40% increase in front of me and am wondering if I should even bother asking or just take it. code:
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Dec 14, 2017 21:49
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Jose Valasquez posted:Let me put this in terms you'll understand This is gold, thank you. I don't think I've laughed quite so hard at SA in awhile.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:52
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the talent deficit posted:just give them your non-work contact info (twitter handle, phone number, personal email, whatever) and tell them to reach out if they need a reference or referral or career advice. they'll know what that means This is definitely a good thing to do. I would find that to be a massively helpful thing to do and would appreciate it!
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Dec 15, 2017 15:07
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Skandranon posted:Some background, I like where I am working, but we are moving offices and it's obvious that the new office will seriously damage current culture in a number of ways. I was in a similar situation where we were moving offices and I felt the planned layout would make a lot of things that I disliked much worse. I talked to everyone in management about it and they blew me off. I stayed around because I liked the other devs and didn't want to leave the younger developers to be stomped by management. As it turned out, the new office sucked even more than I'd imagined and management continued to ignore complaints. After I left, the younger devs grew up a bit in skills and then quit. I miss the people I used to work with and I left some pretty great code behind that I wish I could still work on, but otherwise it worked out well.
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Dec 16, 2017 15:46
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quote:I spoke with HR, it was fine and positive. But then, they also had me talk to their "independent management/people consultant" which was honestly weird as poo poo. It felt like she was doing a psych evaluation and I was actually pretty uncomfortable the entire time. Why should I have to sell out my lovely boss to someone I don't know at all who claims they're confidential but has never met me or my manager? The only reason I agreed to it is because HR was pretty good about saying they're going to look for a team for me to switch to and wanted me to talk to this person as a side-thing, so I sorta wanted to appease them but little did I know it would be this invasive. Also I regularly see a mental health professional and I'm pretty sure if I told her (when I tell her?) some of the things this person assumed about me after an hour of talking, she's going to be extremely bothered by my company trying to do some pop-sci therapy bullshit and maybe even question the legality of it.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:08
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Your manager gets referral bonuses for hires that he is the hiring manager for? Is my understanding correct here? That is supremely hosed up and a major conflict of interest
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Dec 19, 2017 17:11
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HR loves pop psych personality evaluation bullshit IME. I consulted at one place where employees were supposed to have some five axis graph pinned to their cube wall so people could tell how to communicate with them best. Seemed like all the technical people ignored that though, because I mostly saw them in the PMs' cubes.
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Dec 19, 2017 17:12
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Steve French posted:Your manager gets referral bonuses for hires that he is the hiring manager for? Is my understanding correct here? That is supremely hosed up and a major conflict of interest From my understanding, yes, I was told that this is how it works on other teams, but generally there's a pretty strict vetting process. Supremely fucc'd indeed. Hashtag Company Problemz
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Dec 19, 2017 17:24
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Good Will Hrunting posted:From my understanding, yes, I was told that this is how it works on other teams, but generally there's a pretty strict vetting process. Supremely fucc'd indeed. We definitely do not allow hiring managers to get referral bonuses here as that's a big no no.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:46
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Munkeymon posted:HR loves pop psych personality evaluation bullshit IME. I consulted at one place where employees were supposed to have some five axis graph pinned to their cube wall so people could tell how to communicate with them best. Seemed like all the technical people ignored that though, because I mostly saw them in the PMs' cubes. What type of bird are you?
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Dec 19, 2017 20:42
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geeves posted:What type of bird are you? A Gryphon. Obviously.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:47
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Munkeymon posted:HR loves pop psych personality evaluation bullshit IME. I consulted at one place where employees were supposed to have some five axis graph pinned to their cube wall so people could tell how to communicate with them best. Seemed like all the technical people ignored that though, because I mostly saw them in the PMs' cubes. Ugh, I remember going through that nonsense once. Management sent out an email blast to some communication consultant's website and told everybody to read it by next week, because we'd be spending two mornings off-site learning about communication. When we got there, they handed out big printouts of their website and started reading them to us. I interrupted and asked if we could skip ahead, but one of my coworkers said, "Uh, not all of us read this stuff already." I thought that would be a point against him, but the consultant mentioned me to my boss for being a problem. Then we all got name placards with our communication style printed on them and nothing changed. We were supposed to acknowledge that some people are decision-driven and may communicate bluntly and we need to accommodate them and blah blah blah. Never mind that some of those types were kind of just being dicks.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:51
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Doh004 posted:We definitely do not allow hiring managers to get referral bonuses here as that's a big no no. Yeah this is standard practice at any company that isn't a hosed up shitshow.
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