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TheKingslayer posted:Seeing the Zeus on the list made me think, "Surely he won in the movie to set up the big climax of Rip winning." Um... you get that movies aren't real? ...Right? 
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Dec 9, 2017 16:27
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Rarity posted:Um... you get that movies aren't real? ...Right? 
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Dec 9, 2017 16:53
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Rarity posted:Um... you get that movies aren't real? ...Right? i would assume so given that he's complaining about Hulk's ego getting in the way of the movie and associated feud having a sane narrative structure? WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Dec 10, 2017 |
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Dec 9, 2017 16:56
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:i would assume so given that he's complaining about Hulk's ego getting in the way of the movie having a sane narrative structure? Seeing as the rumor was Hogan and Vince rewrote the script over a coked fueled weekend ...
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Dec 9, 2017 18:16
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Rarity posted:I was surprised to see the Genius in the ring and surprised to see he didn't suck balls. He actually had a couple of things going for him and I'd be interested in seeing him again which is way more than I thought I'd say. In a previous life he was Leapin' Lanny Poffo (brother of one Randy Poffo, former minor league catcher and did some other things post-baseball) and was a cruiserweight 20 years ahead of his time. If he came up in the 80's-90's he would have fit right in with the cruiserweight scene that WCW had. But back then high-flying was doing a dropkick or a crossbody off the top so no one knew what to do with him, meaning he spent more time doing  promos or sitting at home getting paid to do nothing. Now tbf that latter part is the real American Dream (not Dusty) but still.
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Dec 9, 2017 21:20
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Time to return to the back where Sean Mooney is with Bobby Heenan and assorted family members. There's one big piece of news which I'm afraid we need to get out of the way. It seems that Demolition have relinquished their hold on the Tag Team titles but before you start getting your hopes up I'm going to have to burst that bubble that's dreaming of an exciting tag division. For your new Tag Team champions are none other than Andre the Giant and Haku. Urghhhh. I don't think I need to go into detail about how much this change disappoints me. If you've been following this thread then I'm sure you know exactly what I'd say. Anyway, Heenan says that the family are going to work together and forces them to keep their numbers secret. Mooney checks in with Rick Rude to see if he'll follow the party line even if it comes down to Rude and Haku at the end. Rude says that he'll go for it but Heenan interrupts with a disagreement and everyone starts to argue. Reluctant as I am to spoil things, I must warn you that none of this teased discontent will have any bearing on the match whatsoever.  Every man for himself! Get ready for our next PPV, Wrestlemania VI! We'll be live from Canada so we're taking our first trip to Bizarroland! Don't forget your passport! Submission Match Greg Valentine w/ Jimmy Hart vs. Rugged Ronnie Garvin Oh boy oh boy oh boy, isn't this exciting? We've got ourselves an actual old-fashioned blow-off match for a feud! It really is a shame that right now asides from the Wrestlemanias these shows are filled with random matches that occasionally showcase feuds but rarely provide proper pay off. It's such a pervasive phenomenon that even a feud between two guys I couldn't a single gently caress about suddenly feels special. We've watched these guys bite at each other since Summerslam! Remember the good times when Garvin said Greg was overweight? And it's even so important it's got a gimmick as well! It's a submission match! I'm just going to repeat that for posterity. A SUBMISSION match. Anyway there's some important psychology that we need to think about here. Greg does, of course, have his leg brace that he's been wearing for many a month now that allows him to up the pressure for his signature Figure 4 finisher. Well, to even up the scores a touch Garvin has come with a leg brace of his own. This means that if he can catch Greg in his own finisher he can give him a taste of his own finisher. He'd better cause I don't know any other submission moves that he knows. The match begins and the two men start laying into each other. Garvin knocks Greg down to the mat and he... goes for a pinfall. In a submission match. The ref waves his arms around and Garvin looks confused because he's a moron. Garvin and Greg exchange a series of brutal chops in that stiff manner that they have with each other, which brings the crowd to life a little. Greg comes out on top and headbutts Garvin in the dick so to capitalise he... goes for a pinfall. Oh come on! What, did the road agent just forget to mention the stipulation he'd come up with? These lads are looking proper stupid here.  Ah yes, the dreaded 'wait for his butt to get sore' submission move Despite their attempts to drag the match into ridicule the action continues with a headbutt from Greg that leaves both men down on the mat. Garvin recovers faster and goes for a piledriver but Greg reverses into a back body drop. However, Garvin rolls through into a sunset flip so Greg just bends over and lamps him in the face. Greg gives no fucks for your technical ability, Garvin. Greg asserts his dominance by... going for a pinfall. Garvin escapes out with a rollup that ends with him... going for a pinfall. Greg comes back by... going for a pinfall. What the hell is going on here? I don't understand what they're trying to do with this. Kayfabe wise even if the guys didn't know it was a submission match they'd be told after the final pin attempt so they'd stop. But here they just keep on doing it like and it makes them look so dumb. Greg goes for the Figure 4 but Garvin reverses it and GOES FOR A loving PINFALL. Not being one to give up Greg goes for the Figure 4 one more time and this time he locks it in tight. The only problem is instead of writhing around in agony Garvin just sits there with a blank look on his face. It turns out that the leg brace is preventing the hold from putting on any pressure. To rub it in Garvin starts sticking his tongue out and pulling funny faces. Ok, I was liking the psychology but this is all a bit silly now.  All right, calm down. You outsmarted Greg Valentine, it's not that big an achievement With the best weapon in his arsenal taken out of the equation Greg resorts to drastic measures and slaps on a torture rack but he struggles to cinch it in all the way. The two men continue to beat on each other with slow, heavy shots and I've figured out what I'm looking at here. It's 11pm in Yorkshire and two fat old men have stumbled out of the pub and started trying to lamp each other. That's Greg and Garvin. Not including the bit where Garvin puts on an Indian deathlock, obviously. That's more of a Surrey move. The fight spills outside where Greg reverses a piledriver into a back body drop. Back in the ring Garvin goes for a dropkick in the corner but gets caught in a tree of woe. With Garvin hung up Greg tries to remove his leg brace but Garvin tries to do the same to Greg and neither man comes out ahead. The two men exchange blows and both men go down. There's way too many of these 'both men down' spots in this match, this is like the fourth time now. It's almost as bad as the pinfall attempts. With both men lying on the mat Jimmy sneaks up to the apron and pulls off Garvin's leg brace. This allows Greg to apply the Figure 4 correctly and leave Garvin wriggling around in pain. Garvin's stuck in the middle with nowhere to go and the crowd's coming alive and in the end Garvin rolls over onto his front to revert the pressure. However, Greg's right in the ropes so it doesn't stay on for long. He's done the damage though and now Garvin can only hobble around the ring. Greg goes for the Figure 4 one more time and Garvin reverses into a rollup. I'm past the ability to get mad about it. In a bold move Greg goes up top and as you'd expect it does not work out for him. Garvin catches him and throws him down to the mat, taking the opportunity to pull Greg's leg brace off and even things back up. Garvin grabs the brace and goes after Jimmy, who's climbed into the ring. Greg picks up the other brace and stalks him but Garvin sees him coming and hits him full in the face with the brace. Garvin locks on a sharpshooter while somewhere in the back Bret Hart throws a little strop. Garvin wins the match though, Greg's comeuppance is achieved!  Greg never tapped, it's the Orlando screwjob! I can't say that this match set the world on fire but it was still the best match of the show so far. That's not really saying a lot but I did appreciate the storytelling of the heel having the tables turned back on him through his own cheap tactics and I'm glad they're at least starting to blow off feuds on PPV. That said, the action was mostly really dull and the match dragged and dragged because it was given way too much time. And finally, I leave you with one important statistic. Total Number of Pinfall Attempts In This SUBMISSION Match: 9
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Dec 11, 2017 07:47
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As a kid I was just absolutely loving delighted to see Greg's bad guy tactics turned against him, and his frustration was absolutely delicious 
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Dec 11, 2017 11:06
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Speaking of delicious irony, as a Demolition fan it's fun to see Rarity bemoaning that they've lost the tag titles (if only because they've gone to a far worse tag team).
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Dec 11, 2017 11:33
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Marmaduke! posted:Speaking of delicious irony, as a Demolition fan it's fun to see Rarity bemoaning that they've lost the tag titles (if only because they've gone to a far worse tag team). If only I'd known the truth 
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Dec 11, 2017 12:32
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If nothing else I liked the way they booked Haku/Andre as a team. Their matches usually 99% consisted of Haku taking a beating (obviously, Andre could barely walk), then Andre would get a shot in and the opponent would fly off into space like they were in Smash Bros. They went around Andre being immobile by turning him into an instant death obstacle
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Dec 11, 2017 15:03
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Rarity posted:If only I'd known the truth "I wish for Demolition to lose their titles" *monkey's paw finger curls*
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Dec 11, 2017 15:31
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I think this was one of the first submission matches on a major WWF card ever, so I always assumed the pinfalls were just to really rub it home to the folks in the back that "HEY PINFALLS DON'T COUNT IN THIS MATCH!!!! GET IT????"
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Dec 11, 2017 15:33
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I think this was one of the first submission matches on a major WWF card ever, so I always assumed the pinfalls were just to really rub it home to the folks in the back that "HEY PINFALLS DON'T COUNT IN THIS MATCH!!!! GET IT????" As a kid I always figured a lot of wrestling boiled down to instincts, so of course you're instinctively going to go for a pinfall. It's probably been trained in these guys' heads for years that when someone is down, go for that pin! After all, according to the Living Legend on that WCW show I watched, a rookie mistake was not going for pins immediately.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:46
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I always liked the psychology of the pinfall attempts. These are guys who have years of experience, it makes sense that their natural instinct is to go for the pin.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:47
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This is also how I explained the logic behind top rope moves to downed opponents. Guys stay down when hurt a little to get some rest rather than wasting energy moving their limbs at all, but kick out at 2 all the time no matter how hurt they are because with the ref's count their instincts kick in. Top rope moves take advantage of that instinct by letting guys think they're fine to rest, only to get hit by a vicious move that finishes them off.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:53
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rare Magic card l00k posted:As a kid I always figured a lot of wrestling boiled down to instincts, so of course you're instinctively going to go for a pinfall. It's probably been trained in these guys' heads for years that when someone is down, go for that pin! Back when commentators were actually good at their job. 
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Dec 11, 2017 15:57
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Randaconda posted:Back when commentators were actually good at their job. You don't want people to think they're watching a wrestling show do you?!
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Dec 11, 2017 17:13
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Also I love Valentine/Garvin, IIRC I gave it **** when I was watching old RR matches.
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Dec 11, 2017 18:00
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This was my favorite match on this PPV. I loved the interaction and I was a big Rugged Ronnie Garvin fan for like a week afterward. I never knew he was the man with the hands of stone though. I lost track of him over the years and it will be interesting to learn how he ended up or if the gets another PPV match.
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Dec 11, 2017 22:13
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Nystral posted:This was my favorite match on this PPV. I loved the interaction and I was a big Rugged Ronnie Garvin fan for like a week afterward. I never knew he was the man with the hands of stone though. I lost track of him over the years and it will be interesting to learn how he ended up or if the gets another PPV match. According to OSWReview he doesn't. This is the last bit of Rugged Johnny that we're getting.
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Dec 11, 2017 22:19
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Y'know up until this point, I had no idea he's legit related to Jimmy Jam Garvin (his stepson apparently). The more you know
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Dec 11, 2017 22:24
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DeathChicken posted:Y'know up until this point, I had no idea he's legit related to Jimmy Jam Garvin (his stepson apparently). The more you know them vs. The Rougeaus was one of the biggest matches or series of matches in Montreal history - apparently Ronnie is French Canadian!
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Dec 11, 2017 22:48
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Once more to the back and Zombie Mean Gene who is talking to Curt Hennig to get answers about his attack on Burtus. Hennig explains that he's sick of Burtus taking liberties with the scissors so he went out to defend his buddy. Yes, such a dastardly heel. Boo that man. He adds that he's going to use Burtus to get to the top and warns that “hair grows back but your ribs may never grow back the right way”. Zombie Mean Gene turns the conversation to the Royal Rumble and Hennig reveals that because he's great at everything he drew the perfect number. That's right, Hennig is your #30. While this didn't do enough to excite me for a Hennig/Burtus feud it was still a good interview. Hennig's just brilliant all round. We're going to take a pause from the fightsmen now because it's time for a special Royal Rumble edition of Brother Love's talk show. Love's been brushing up on his Miriam-Webster because he defines a lady as a woman of class, finesse and beauty and then says he's ready to introduce “my guest at this time”. Ah, so this is where that phrase started! I've heard WWE interviewers using this phrase for the last 20 years and it always sounds so weird to me because it's such a weird use of grammar.  Um, I appreciate your love, sir, but do you think maybe you could love somebody else? Anyway, his guest at this time is supposedly a lady so of course it's Sensational Sherri. As she walks out Schiavone starts having a go at her for not matching up to Love's definition. You what mate? While I work hard to keep away from objectifying any of the women (or men) on these shows you can't deny that Sherri is pretty drat beautiful. Crazy eye make-up notwithstanding, obviously. Sherri is looking especially sparkly tonight, I think I need some sunglasses. When she reaches the ring Sherri says that Love radiates boldness and masculinity. Now that's some solid heeling right there. Now that he's in the presence of royalty Love defines the inverse of a lady, which would be a peasant with no class, finesse or beauty. As he does so Sherri interjects with additional insults. These two work well together as a really annoying combo. To give a real life example for his definition Love brings out a peasant woman, Sapphire. Who's Sapphire, you ask? Why, she's none other than the Polka Dot Lady that's been hanging out with Dusty Rhodes. As she walks out Schiavone throws more shade at Sherri with “I don't know if I'm attracted to a woman with pineapples above her eyes”. Rude, Schiavone.  Those are clearly dragonfruit Sapphire comes down to the ring for what's about to become a brutal barrage of abuse. Sherri kicks things off by asking Sapphire where she goes shopping so that she can make sure she never looks like her. Love follows up by calling Sapphire a common woman. Careful, Love! I warned you about those racial connotations! Sherri then lays into Sapphire for having the temerity to breathe same air as her. drat, girl! All though this Love keeps asking Sapphire questions and then ripping the microphone away from her before she's had the chance to speak. This is seriously uncool. But Sherri and Love aren't going to settle for just belittling Sapphire, oh no. They've got plenty of diss for Dusty as well. Love says that there's a whole lot of Dusty to see and Sherri takes it one step further by saying she sees Dusty all over the arena. Love agrees because “there's a whole lot of him to go around”. Hey now, no need to get into body-shaming here. God drat, Sherri is being totally brutal here. I have so much sympathy for Sapphire right now. Love thinks that between shows Dusty must load her into his pickup truck to travel from town to town. MOST OFFENSIVE COMMENT Sensational Sherri: “From the looks of you I'd say he has to use a forklift to put you in the back of it” loving hell. I know all this stuff is meant to be horrible but this is intense poo poo. I don't want to see someone being bulled in the middle of my show. Just as my tolerance for this is running out it looks like the same can be said for Sapphire cause she straight up slaps the poo poo out of Sherri. Hurray! I'm not gonna lie, I marked out. Randy Savage rushes out to protect his queen with Dusty close behind to make the save. Dusty jumps on Savage's back but Love tears him off and Savage and Sherri beat a hasty retreat. Love says that Dusty took a “royal whupping” so Dusty and Sapphire beat up and Love and then have a Common Man boogie to celebrate.  You're all right, lady All in all I thought this was a really solid segment. Sherri and Love did a whole lot to get me on Sapphire's side and it built up to Sapphire snapping really well. It's safe to say that this makes Savage/ Dusty a lock for WM6 as well which, eh... I can't say that it's a match I have any interest in seeing and I'd rather Savage be in there with someone more on his speed but I can see why they're going for it. Dusty is one of their most over faces and I'm sure this feud will seem like a big deal on the night. Also, this segment made me realise that we've not seen Elizabeth since Summerslam. It's weird how that whole story arc has just fizzled out. Mooney is with his guest at this time, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, who's about to be facing off with the Big Bossman. Hacksaw says that Bossman is different so he's going to need to change up his approach. I have a couple of problems with this. Firstly, Hacksaw can't even say the word 'approach' and secondly, he says this now but he's not going to do anything different during the match to what he normally does. Which is a shame cause I'd have given this show eight Kanes minimum if Hacksaw started busting out corkscrew moonsaults. Hacksaw doesn't care what Bossman says or thinks he's not a young punk at the drugstore. Indeed you're not, no matter how much you keep pretending to be.  Hacksaw still needed to work on his 'wink' routine Big Bossman w/ Slick vs. Hacksaw Jim Duggan I think my feelings about this one are best summed up by Schiavone who says “there'll be no finesse in this match”. Oh, nice to meet you Sassy Schiavone! Jesse asks him if he ever faced a guy like Bossman when he was “incarcenated”. Hehe. Now I know I've given Bossman a fair amount of poo poo over the course of this thread but I have to admit then when you throw him up against Hacksaw he suddenly looks a hell of a lot more favourable. So there you go, Bossman fans. There's my grudging respect that he could be worse. Plus I reckon nightstick beats 2x4 any day. But sledgehammer beats nightstick! And 2x4 beats sledgehammer! How are we ever going to solve this one? They kick things off and the brawl quickly descends to the outside. Bossman sends Hacksaw into the ringpost but when he goes charging in Hacksaw dodges and he goes flying face first into the ring steps. The lads are getting in the heavy hits early here. And I know I always talk about Bossman's gross cocaine sweats but god drat, he is loving drenched tonight. It's like he's just walked out of a shower in the Niagara Falls. Bossman connects with an avalanche and he aims a kick but Hacksaw catches his foot. This doesn't look like a good situation but then BOSSMAN HITS A loving ENZIGURI. Holy. poo poo.  Well I'll be damned, I would never have guessed Bossman had that in him. Fair play, dude. From here Bossman is able to take control and start laying in a beating. Schiavone gets upset that Bossman's allowed to bring his nightstick to the ring but when Jesse points out Hacksaw's got a 2x4 he gets defensive and calls it a “mascot”. Which is funny cause I've seen Hacksaw use his 2x4 in matches way more than I've seen Bossman use his nightstick. While the ref's got his back turned Slick chokes Hacksaw with a chain. Bossman presses the advantage with a long rest hold. This is a very one-sided affair and I gotta say, while Hacksaw has provided me with little pleasure to date it is quite fun seeing him get his rear end kicked this relentlessly. There's a good three years of frustration getting a cathartic release here. Bossman follows up with a bearhug and when Hacksaw tries to break free Bossman stops it by falling on top him. Haha, Bossman gives no fucks for your comeback. With no route back into contention apparent Hacksaw settles for a blatant shove of the ref, which Schiavone isn't sure happened. Careful there Schiavone, you're starting to reach Gino levels of hypocrisy. Bossman rocks Hacksaw with a stiff clothesline but then he goes up top for a body splash and we all know how that ends up. You can tease it all you like, mate, but we all know you're never going to hit it. No one's taking that bump. Hacksaw comes off the ropes and runs into Bossman sending both men down.  Triple H and Scott Steiner's push-up contest was far more impressive On the outside, Slick's manager sense that match is due to end starts tingling so he climbs up on the apron and grabs Hacksaw. Bossman runs up but Hacksaw ducks away and Bossman hits Slick. Bossman's had just about enough of this so he picks up the nightstick and nails Hacksaw with it. Slick tries to distract the ref but he doesn't do a very good job so Bossman still gets the DQ. Hacksaw grabs his 2x4 and smacks Slick on the rear end with it (yes, really). Bossman hurls some chairs into the ring but Hacksaw's not too fussed about it and Bossman doesn't try to do much else except wander to the back in frustration. I wasn't expecting this to be much of anything but it was actually quite good up until the last few minutes. Like I said, I did really like seeing Hacksaw get the poo poo kicked out of him. That said, the finish was awful and I certainly wouldn't call this a “tremendous win” for Hacksaw like Schiavone tries to. It was a loving DQ, you can't take any credit for that. However, any negative I can say is pretty much countered by Bossman enziguri. drat, that's still awesome.
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Dec 13, 2017 18:47
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This is right around when Bossman starts dropping a lot of weight and getting good at this wrestling thing. Not there yet, but he'd already slimmed down so much from, say...here that it was kind of crazy
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Dec 13, 2017 19:13
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I'd say Mean Gene started doing "My guest at this time" way before Brother Love
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Dec 13, 2017 19:57
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Bossman was always an athletic freak; he first got noticed by Dusty when he came in as a job guy and took the slingshot suplex from Tully Blanchard, which was a 400lb guy bumping big for someone less than half his size. Dusty turned him into Big Bubba, a bodyguard for Jim Cornette who just had to stand around and not sell anything, which was good since Bossman was green as goose poo poo. So once he got to WWF as the Bossman and started actually working, he got to show off more of his agility and the more he moved, the more the weight started to come off. Someone post that .gif of him against Kobashi in Japan tia. Also, since I can't remember where it was in the timeline so I'll throw it behind tags are we at the point where he took that superlex off the cage against Hogan on SNME because that was ridiculous by today's standards, much less back then.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:30
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Boss Man started as a jobber in the NWA, but only lasted a few weeks after Dusty Rhodes saw him take a slingshot suplex from Tully Blanchard. Dusty immediately pulled him off TV, then after a few weeks, reintroduced him as Big Bubba Rogers, bodyguard to Jim Cornette. Compare the sizes of Tully and the Boss Man, and realize just how athletic Boss Man had to be to pull that off
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Dec 13, 2017 20:33
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Davros1 posted:Compare the sizes of Tully and the Boss Man, and realize just how athletic Boss Man had to be to pull that off In the words of Booker T: Da hale? 
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Dec 13, 2017 20:45
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The Bossman was a great big man, I was always a fan. I even liked his redneck as hell family talking about him in his HoF induction.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:50
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C. Everett Koop posted:Also, since I can't remember where it was in the timeline so I'll throw it behind tags are we at the point where he took that superlex off the cage against Hogan on SNME because that was ridiculous by today's standards, much less back then. That was during Zeus' first appearance, so the thread's caught up. Coincidentally, Rumble '90 is Boss Man's last PPV as a heel during this run, as he turns face on TV shortly after. Fun times ahead for Rarity. He was so awesome as a face. Gavok fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 20:52
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Gavok posted:*spoilers* Dude.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:54
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Sorry, took out the last part.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:56
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Also, wait, his name is Burtus Beefcake? I always thought it was Brutus.
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Dec 13, 2017 22:04
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Also, wait, his name is Burtus Beefcake? I always thought it was Brutus. it's a joke from a sign some kid had at like wrestlemania 3
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Dec 13, 2017 22:07
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I'd say Mean Gene started doing "My guest at this time" way before Brother Love It's funny and depressing when you realize almost all the stuff that aggravates us in modern day WWE is basically cargo-cult reproductions of stuff that was done back in the 80s but worked because of the talent of the people who did it. Vince has a tendency to discount the person and assume what made it work was the verbiage and that you can just transfer that to anybody (preferably young, attractive and most importantly tall) and it'll work - see Big Show doing the YES! chants.
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Dec 14, 2017 00:17
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DeathChicken posted:The Widowmaker was very good wrestler Barry Windham in very much "Phoning it in and don't give a gently caress" mode, so...it's probably best you missed the Widowmaker For further fun, note that Windham is Bray Wyatt and Bo Dallas' uncle, on their mom's side. C. Everett Koop posted:Also, since I can't remember where it was in the timeline so I'll throw it behind tags are we at the point where he took that superlex off the cage against Hogan on SNME because that was ridiculous by today's standards, much less back then.  https://media.giphy.com/media/TePUCSnhcUKf6/giphy.gif
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Dec 14, 2017 09:02
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The Bossman/Hogan cage match was in May 89', I linked to the full match several pages ago:Shiki Dan posted:I have a feeling you're eventually going to change your position on Bossman.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:48
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Shiki Dan posted:The Bossman/Hogan cage match was in May 89', I linked to the full match several pages ago: I remember one of the Apter mags at the time devoting a whole column to the superplex, the Russian Legsweep from the cage match, and the brief bit of chain wrestling he did with Macho at WM5. The columnist was in awe, and the basis of the column was "Is Hogan actually starting to wrestle in his matches?"
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Dec 14, 2017 16:51
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That is easily the biggest bump I've ever seen Hogan take. For a man who typically doesn't leave the ground higher than the Legdrop (brother) that's amazing
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Dec 14, 2017 17:46
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Davros1 posted:"Is Hogan actually starting to wrestle in his matches?" No.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:48
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