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Solarin
Nov 15, 2007

Chris Roberts

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Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

reverend crabhands posted:

I am confused.

Are we saying CIG may be forced to back out of Lumberyard?

Then again Crytek are claiming some sort of exclusive tied deal was made?

Crytek: Hello your client broke the contract.

CIG lawyers who also worked at Crytek which is fun: Yes that is correct.

Crytek: We want X money or we go to trial. Do you want trial?

CIG lawyers: We do not want trial. No one wants trial. Trials are expensive and everyone loses money.

Crytek: Ok yes we also do not want trial give money.

CIG lawyers: Ok here is money/we do not have money take something else which you can turn into money.

Probably going to go something like that. Like 90% of civil cases that never go further than a tastefully decorated office in a nice building somewhere in LA.

reverend crabhands
Feb 3, 2016

Phi230 posted:

So basically what crytek wants is for a complete halt of use of anything that uses cryengine or derived from cryengine.

I didn't read the complaint but from what someone posted that's what it comes down to.

Sure but look at C36 in the court document :


quote:

36.

Section 2.1.2 of the GLA contained a critical promise from Defendants that they would not develop the Star Citizen video game using any other video game engines

If that claim stands up, it is possible that Crytek may require CIG to pull Lumberyard.

Whether they'd do that is another matter, but the threat is there.

The document terms it "a critical promise".

:gary:

Together with the demand to stop using Crytek assets it seems to be....

We're gonna stop you using CryEngine, but you can't legally use anything else, your move Crobblers.

reverend crabhands fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Dec 16, 2017

EminusSleepus
Sep 28, 2015

One. Thing CIG can do is to completely rename star citizen and tell the. Spergs they are still creating star citizen but they have a new game in development that is completely different from star citizen but still the same.

Nyast
Nov 14, 2017

BLAZING AT THE
SPEED OF LIGHT

D_Smart posted:

It has teeth; big teeth. And CIG/RSI can neither afford (they will try) to settle, nor delay it - thus risking crazy things like depositions & discovery.

Why couldn't they delay it ?

kw0134
Apr 19, 2003

I buy feet pics🍆

That's the question though; if there was a serious chance of settling, plaintiffs should be thumping a summary of the complaint on Ortwin's desk, saying there's an easy way to do this or a hard way before heading down to the courthouse and making it official. Trials are inherently risky, lengthy and expensive, and a quick but large settlement serves everyone's needs, including the defendant's.

So either Skadden tried and failed, the suit being the result, or Crytek/CIG won't settle. It'll be really really interesting if it's Crytek out for judicially-enforced blood.

(There's also the possibility that in the run up to the suit Crytek made urgent noises about needing to adhere to the contract and got blown off. Then the suit was the shot across the bow needed to finally get CIG to stop loving around. Given the clownshow that is CIG, nothing can be discounted.)

Solarin
Nov 15, 2007

Toops posted:

Protracted bathroom experiences are the only respite I get from the madding crowd. Elite is like walking into a quiet, empty workplace restroom, settling into a stall, breathing a sigh of relief, then some idiot throws open the door, shuffles quickly into the stall next to yours with your inner monologue going “No no no no no no no” and proceeds to have explosive, groaning diarrhea. Nothing to do but pull them trousers back up, exit, and try again later when maybe it’s not so poo poo.

But it’s never not so poo poo. It’s horrible. Ever has it been, and so ever shall it be.

somewhere David Braben is reading this drinking his third coffee of the morning while his bowels churn vigorously

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Sarsapariller posted:

I love it when they do this, neglecting that Chris himself chose to go with CryEngine against all kinds of warnings. Any knock against CryTek is a knock against the competence of CIG.

The best part is the fact nobody seems to get:

The original demo for the game was built by CryTek. Chris Roberts couldn’t even build it because he had no talent or ability. He farmed it out to people who were capable of doing it.

Since that demo, like 6 loving years ago, they added more ships, which basically connect back to the original demo that CryTek built, and they added in fps stuff, in an engine that is designed to be an FPS game maker suite.

They also hacked in the original CryTek multiplayer stuff.

They tried to make improvements, but can’t get any of it right. The original demo code is probably still the core code they are trying to extend and add new ships around and tweak.

Everything since the original CryTek demo has been a barely functional, definitely not production worthy effort, hack job to extend the original stuff CryTek did.

The original stuff CryTek did was very loving good for a demo, even had the walking around inside a ship stuff, and was designed to meet the original goals of the game pretty easily.

There’s a reason so many people originally believed in the project: originally it was very feasible. The only really neat feature that set it apart was being able to walk around inside a ship, which they already had shown to have pretty good progress towards.

It wasn’t until later that Chris Roberts came unglued, and drove the project into the realm of impossibility. Even then, all the insanity he promised has never made it into the game, at its core it’s still that original CryTek demo with extra stuff shoddily bolted on to it.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

reverend crabhands posted:

The document terms it "a critical promise".

Another common shitizen argument down the drain.

"But CIG never promised anything. Oh, uh, err..."

TheAgent
Feb 16, 2002

The call is coming from inside Dr. House
Grimey Drawer

The Titanic posted:

The best part is the fact nobody seems to get:

The original demo for the game was built by CryTek. Chris Roberts couldn’t even build it because he had no talent or ability. He farmed it out to people who were capable of doing it.

Since that demo, like 6 loving years ago, they added more ships, which basically connect back to the original demo that CryTek built, and they added in fps stuff, in an engine that is designed to be an FPS game maker suite.

They also hacked in the original CryTek multiplayer stuff.

They tried to make improvements, but can’t get any of it right. The original demo code is probably still the core code they are trying to extend and add new ships around and tweak.

Everything since the original CryTek demo has been a barely functional, definitely not production worthy effort, hack job to extend the original stuff CryTek did.

The original stuff CryTek did was very loving good for a demo, even had the walking around inside a ship stuff, and was designed to meet the original goals of the game pretty easily.

There’s a reason so many people originally believed in the project: originally it was very feasible. The only really neat feature that set it apart was being able to walk around inside a ship, which they already had shown to have pretty good progress towards.

It wasn’t until later that Chris Roberts came unglued, and drove the project into the realm of impossibility. Even then, all the insanity he promised has never made it into the game, at its core it’s still that original CryTek demo with extra stuff shoddily bolted on to it.
the best part is they've probably shared a shitload of cryengine code with multiple 3rd party studios to help build those ships

can't wait until fuckin space court

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Solarin posted:

somewhere David Braben is reading this drinking his third coffee of the morning while his bowels churn vigorously

I wouldn't turn down being a fly on the wall when the good news finally went official.

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat
Everything and anything that looks good, almost works was done by a contractor.

Also lol at Toops.
:justpost:

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

TheAgent posted:

the best part is they've probably shared a shitload of cryengine code with multiple 3rd party studios to help build those ships

can't wait until fuckin space court

Ships. Half the game. Pimping out the task of building AI to about four companies. Setting up leaderboards on the website with Turbulent. Should be fine.

Lol if The Next Great Starship ends up being part of this.

Dusty Lens fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 16, 2017

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy

reverend crabhands posted:

Sure but look at C36 in the court document :


If that claim stands up, it is possible that Crytek may require CIG to pull Lumberyard.

Whether they'd do that is another matter, but the threat is there.

The document terms it "a critical promise".

:gary:

Together with the demand to stop using Crytek assets it seems to be....

We're gonna stop you using CryEngine, but you can't legally use anything else, your move Crobblers.


It depends what remedies crytek is going for.

If they want to continue the contract then CIG might be compelled to continue development of SC but may have to cancel SQ42, and would have to drop lumber yard

But I dunno what they're going for. There's a whole wonderful world of possibilities in what crytek can demand on CIG and in every case CIG is hosed lmao

shrach
Jan 10, 2004

daylight ssssaving time
One of the things to remember is that Squadron 42 is very definitely a separate game. The BFI may be very lenient and look for ways to help you pass for the UK tax credit scheme, but you do have to pass a simple test. There is formal paperwork. That would include the name of the game, the script etc and that game can only be "Squadron 42" and not "Star Citizen" for a number of reasons.

This has always been assumed to be the main reason they split the two games in the first place. The way this untangles can still be awkward for CIG by virtue of the American companies involvement and the fact that the UK group are acting as if they were subsidiaries of the US group, but they are not subsidiaries.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

reverend crabhands posted:

- Coutts did their due diligence, Coutts was aware when they handed over the dosh for Sq42 rights
- But SQ42 is essentially running on an unlicensed engine, [bCoutts knew this[/b], CIG knew this
- Crytek threatening SQ42 maybe have been "encouraged" by Coutts
- Coutts now take SC ownership since that was the collateral offered and CIG took the loan under false pretences
- Crytek, due to previously signed deal, force CIG to back SC out of Lumberyard
- Ben Parry has to draw a new diagram to show how easy this is
- SC drags on whales being milked for eternity

None of that passes the smell test. For one thing, Coutts would never have gone to the level of inquiring about such things as licenses, as that would be no different from asking if they are all running licensed Windows Server copies.

That's why those sort of things are always in the "disclosure" and "indemnity" sections of such agreements, loans etc.

My guess is that this lawsuit and the allegations are news to Coutts.

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I Greyhound
Apr 22, 2008

MusicKrew Dawn Patrol

kw0134 posted:

That's the question though; if there was a serious chance of settling, plaintiffs should be thumping a summary of the complaint on Ortwin's desk, saying there's an easy way to do this or a hard way before heading down to the courthouse and making it official. Trials are inherently risky, lengthy and expensive, and a quick but large settlement serves everyone's needs, including the defendant's.

So either Skadden tried and failed, the suit being the result, or Crytek/CIG won't settle. It'll be really really interesting if it's Crytek out for judicially-enforced blood.

(There's also the possibility that in the run up to the suit Crytek made urgent noises about needing to adhere to the contract and got blown off. Then the suit was the shot across the bow needed to finally get CIG to stop loving around. Given the clownshow that is CIG, nothing can be discounted.)

I've been involved in a few patent and civil liability suits, and those rarely go to trial, but they do often involve a lot of discovery and depositions and reports before they settle. A lot of the time, the two sides consider it worth going through those initial expenses to size up their chances, and also to try to get a better settlement, so it's not uncommon for settlements to be reached the day before the start of the full trial.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
But the thing is specific performance is so rare and specific and lmao at a court ruling that star citizen is unique enough to warrant that remedy

CIG just stopped performing the contract so in any way in my mind w a basic contracts education CIG gets bent over the barrel for damages. I have not a clue about copyright law. But it would be logical that CIG lose the ability to use cryengine and any tech derived from cryengine wrt sq42. Meaning sq42 may be functionally cancelled if they don't come to an agreement but lol it was never coming out anyway.

I have really no idea how software works, and I have no idea what lumber yard is in relation to cryengine or who owns it or whatever

Phi230 fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 16, 2017

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

reverend crabhands posted:

Sure but look at C36 in the court document :


If that claim stands up, it is possible that Crytek may require CIG to pull Lumberyard.

Whether they'd do that is another matter, but the threat is there.

The document terms it "a critical promise".

:gary:

Together with the demand to stop using Crytek assets it seems to be....

We're gonna stop you using CryEngine, but you can't legally use anything else, your move Crobblers.

Yes. And if true (I have no reason to believe that it isn't, seeing as Skadden wouldn't have filed that particular cause of action anyway) then it means CIG has to:

1) Revert to using CryEngine

2) Remove Lumberyard from the game

3) Either revert to Google Compute or continue using AWS (it doesn't require Lumberyard

4) Restore the CryTek/CryEngine logo

5) Get a separate license for SQ42 - OR - fold it into Star Citizen as a module like Arena Commander, Star Marine etc

From my experience, if there is a settlement, quite a few of the above are likely to happen. For one thing, they didn't really "switch" to Lumberyard. So reverting is probably 2 hrs of work. :grin:

Then the settlement just comes down to how much CIG and CryTek can settle for, what form (cash, royalties etc) it will take, and which of the above 5 things they would need to do.

Make no mistake, from what I'm hearing, this is a big loving problem at CIG/RSI right now, and they're not taking it lightly.

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D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

Nyast posted:

Why couldn't they delay it ?

quote:

It has teeth; big teeth. And CIG/RSI can neither afford (they will try) to settle, nor delay it - thus risking crazy things like depositions & discovery.

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Incitatus
Dec 16, 2005

The Meat Man was out of wings, Mr. William Ash More!:argh:
Why is there this narrative on Reddit on Ortwin being a good lawyer? The Kevin Costner thing sunk Ascendant Pictures which had Ortwin in the company. But then again, Reddit doesn't seem to make any connections to the contract violations in Ascendant with the current accusations of violation with Crytek. Considering Crobblestone/Ortwin got burned that badly with their production comapny, how could they DO THE EXACT SAME THING, just with a different medium?

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
I pray that this goes to trial because that is the funniest option

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





D_Smart posted:

Yeah, I love it. I wish I knew who bought it. Whoever bought me that, please PM me so I can set a reminder to send a free autographed copy of the book.


Yes, of course. I will post instructions on how to do that once it is published. Right now, the plan is for hardcover, paperback and Kindle. So anyone buying and send me their copy in a self-addressed return mailer, will get it signed.

And I don't care how many pages it takes, all Goons actively involved in this drama since The July Blog, will be listed individually. I am still waiting on legal to let me know if I can in fact use the memes which have become part of the drama culture. Though they are in public domain, the ones I use, I may just need a waiver from the creators. But I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

I am also considering doing an audio book of all the blogs, and all the key articles I have written. Just need to figure out if I am going to narrate it, of have a voice actor do it; since I know several who have worked with me on games over the years.

this is my official affadavit stating that Crytek in no way influenced my making of stupid photoshops for the Star Citizen thread and Derek Smart has explicit permission to use any and all images, videos, and text I have posted to any and all Star Citizen threads on noted dead gay comedy forums website www dot somethingawful dot com


hah, take that lawyers :smuggo:

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



Incitatus posted:

Why is there this narrative on Reddit on Ortwin being a good lawyer? The Kevin Costner thing sunk Ascendant Pictures which had Ortwin in the company. But then again, Reddit doesn't seem to make any connections to the contract violations in Ascendant with the current accusations of violation with Crytek. Considering Crobblestone/Ortwin got burned that badly with their production comapny, how could they DO THE EXACT SAME THING, just with a different medium?

The folk tale of the scorpion and the frog seems on point for this.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

shrach posted:

One of the things to remember is that Squadron 42 is very definitely a separate game. The BFI may be very lenient and look for ways to help you pass for the UK tax credit scheme, but you do have to pass a simple test. There is formal paperwork. That would include the name of the game, the script etc and that game can only be "Squadron 42" and not "Star Citizen" for a number of reasons.

This has always been assumed to be the main reason they split the two games in the first place. The way this untangles can still be awkward for CIG by virtue of the American companies involvement and the fact that the UK group are acting as if they were subsidiaries of the US group, but they are not subsidiaries.

Yes. This is a big loving deal for them. Most especially if they did in fact only have a license for one, not two games. This would be the massive barrel that CryTek them has them over. It was hilarious to me when Montoya and those crazies were saying that because CryEngine is free now, so even CIG did use it for SQ42, it's no big deal. Yes, I know. They're morons.

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Incitatus
Dec 16, 2005

The Meat Man was out of wings, Mr. William Ash More!:argh:
Obviously Derek is behind this lawsuit. It was all an elaborate ruse for him to get a book deal.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
I'm going to use citizen like levels of imagination and say that CIG is ordered by the court to basically stop development, ortwin goes to jail for contempt in an electric sun 20 fashion, and Roberts goes to prison for violating the above court order

I have faith in spite of all reason and logic to believe in the above. Fud will not be tolerated

Dooguk
Oct 11, 2016

Pillbug

D_Smart posted:

Good question. He hasn't popped up on Twitter in awhile. I recall that shortly after we shut down the harassment hate sub of racist pedos over at /r/ds, and he had his spat with Jester, he said he was done with SC drama for awhile. I expected him to pop up after this CryTek lawsuit. Going to DM him right now actually.

Thanks for that Derek.

Put me down for a couple of signed copies of your weighty tome.

Free postage mind.

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012

Just wanted to stop by and say that I love everyone of you, especially the grandmaster prancer, for all the laughs of the last few days! :shobon:

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

Dusty Lens posted:

Lol if The Next Great Starship ends up being part of this.
Fuzzy on the witness stand?



By the way, why the gently caress is everyone so red in the latest AtV? Money is still the editor, is he trying to say CIG is hell now?

https://i.imgur.com/mkF4vkE.mp4

It's totally new technology, guys.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

AbstractNapper posted:

Promises!
- No publishers.
- The crowdfunded money are way better utilized
- Shorter development time
- No focus on bogus demos for big gaming conferences
- Delivery on (2) games within 2-3 years, otherwise things become stale

Reality:
- partnerships with (at the least) Amazon, Intel, AMD, and arguably Crytek who provided additional funds. Signed contracts have started to backfire.
- Development hell, investments on 3rd parties that were commissioned to do work were thrown to the fire pit, numerous companies started all around the world for no apparent reason. Backers are expected to keep funding at a regular basis to get "the better experience possible".
- Five to six years in development, still in pre-alpha, non-existent gameplay loop.
- Plenty of bogus demos, unrelated to whatever turds they actually "release". Marketing tactics that are way past borderline sleazy.
- Backers get to play the broken pre-alpha demo, which is laggy, buggy, crashy and choppy as hell and on top of that they are segmented in tiers of Avocados, Subscribers and plebs who still don't get to play the 3.0 pre-alpha. Feature creep is out of control.

This is all good for Star Citizen because at least CIG tries, Crobblz is a genious and, most importantly, DREAMS.

This is a drat good post.

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

SelenicMartian posted:

It's totally new technology, guys.

Still think Star Citizen is the best looking Doom 3 mod to date.

Sunswipe
Feb 5, 2016

by Fluffdaddy

D_Smart posted:

Yeah, I love it. I wish I knew who bought it. Whoever bought me that, please PM me so I can set a reminder to send a free autographed copy of the book.


Yes, of course. I will post instructions on how to do that once it is published. Right now, the plan is for hardcover, paperback and Kindle. So anyone buying and send me their copy in a self-addressed return mailer, will get it signed.

And I don't care how many pages it takes, all Goons actively involved in this drama since The July Blog, will be listed individually. I am still waiting on legal to let me know if I can in fact use the memes which have become part of the drama culture. Though they are in public domain, the ones I use, I may just need a waiver from the creators. But I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

I am also considering doing an audio book of all the blogs, and all the key articles I have written. Just need to figure out if I am going to narrate it, of have a voice actor do it; since I know several who have worked with me on games over the years.
I'm prepared to make truly awful crude representations of any and all memes in MS Paint, if it's any help.

Oh, and you should totally hire Mark Hamill for the audio book.

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013

D_Smart posted:

1) Revert to using CryEngine
You mean stop pretending they're using Lumberyard?

They just changed the logo remember, they literally did gently caress all else.

Incitatus
Dec 16, 2005

The Meat Man was out of wings, Mr. William Ash More!:argh:

Sunswipe posted:

I'm prepared to make truly awful crude representations of any and all memes in MS Paint, if it's any help.

Oh, and you should totally hire Mark Hamill Sandi Gardiner for the audio book.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
In other news, another kickstarted game using cryengine and mocap with actors is releasing in 2 months

Who knows if it'll be good but it'll be out

Hobold
Jan 10, 2012


I love my Cutlass
I love big stompy mechs
I love my HOTAS
I love to salvage wrecks
I love Star Citizen, and all it's craziness
GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA
College Slice

SelenicMartian posted:

Fuzzy on the witness stand?



By the way, why the gently caress is everyone so red in the latest AtV? Money is still the editor, is he trying to say CIG is hell now?

https://i.imgur.com/mkF4vkE.mp4

It's totally new technology, guys.

They are not only faking poo poo, exactly how we said they would, they're still managing to gently caress that up as well.

Good job guys. Good job.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

SelenicMartian posted:

https://i.imgur.com/mkF4vkE.mp4

It's totally new technology, guys.

Holy poo poo.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Lladre posted:

Everything and anything that looks good, almost works was done by a contractor.

Also lol at Toops.
:justpost:

idk why I like picking on you so much, :iiam:

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intardnation
Feb 18, 2016

I'm going to space!

:gary: :yarg:

D_Smart posted:

Yeah, I love it. I wish I knew who bought it. Whoever bought me that, please PM me so I can set a reminder to send a free autographed copy of the book.


Yes, of course. I will post instructions on how to do that once it is published. Right now, the plan is for hardcover, paperback and Kindle. So anyone buying and send me their copy in a self-addressed return mailer, will get it signed.

And I don't care how many pages it takes, all Goons actively involved in this drama since The July Blog, will be listed individually. I am still waiting on legal to let me know if I can in fact use the memes which have become part of the drama culture. Though they are in public domain, the ones I use, I may just need a waiver from the creators. But I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

I am also considering doing an audio book of all the blogs, and all the key articles I have written. Just need to figure out if I am going to narrate it, of have a voice actor do it; since I know several who have worked with me on games over the years.

but you will have add in let me loving finish every so often to keep the audience on its toes for the audio book.

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