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Nevets posted:You guys do know that immediately giving all the 'emancipated' proles 8 weeks paid vacation, unlimited sick leave and a 50% wage increase is going to result in a massive loss of efficiency on the newly 'liberated' shipyards & factories right when we want them churning out our new Nebula pattern ships, right? We actually have to deal with communism in the mechanics? Isn't it just flavor? Plan 'Crabs first UT - later' is nice. We need to defeat the xenocidal aliens first. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 02:55
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RA Rx posted:We actually have to deal with communism in the mechanics? Isn't it just flavor? Counter revolutionary sentiment detected
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Dec 21, 2017 03:08
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Nevets posted:You guys do know that immediately giving all the 'emancipated' proles 8 weeks paid vacation, unlimited sick leave and a 50% wage increase is going to result in a massive loss of efficiency on the newly 'liberated' shipyards & factories right when we want them churning out our new Nebula pattern ships, right? That's just not how workers or people in general work. Especially if they're working for themselves instead of the IC bossman. They're not going to be cheaper but they're sure as hell going to be more efficient than slave or serf labor.
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Dec 21, 2017 04:34
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Saros posted:Anyone can make a proposal, the format is open ended but please include details on the following if relevant: Saros posted:Collaboration fusion drives retrieved from Ranginui V are the subject of intense study on Mars and the project head is quoted as stating partial replication and prototyping is “months, not years” away. Q2: We know in the thread, but in-universe have TFS informed Mars about Speedy and Planet of the Crabs? Q3: ...and the fact TFS probably discovered/claimed an unspecified number of worlds on the other side of Moutere/Galileo? Q4: How much about crabs is publicly known? (attempts to communicate, how nonsensical their actions are, their being engineered cyborgs with suicide bomb implants, how they appear to be pawns of a bigger+badder enemy, etc.) Pharnakes posted:I like this plan a lot, all or nothing but gently caress it guys lets roll the dice. 1j: since a number of super-secret plots are likely to be exposed, Senator Harris is preemptively disavowed and goes on the Most Wanted list as a 'traitor against humanity' (...he already has his own little fiefdom and is effectively immune to prosecution, being an unperson just gives him more room to maneuver and more deniability.) edit to rephrase this: part 2 needs to be defined a bit more clearly to call it a plan and we'll need to do a lot of prep work before the conference to minimize the chaos/wars Whether or not Plan Dominion2.0 happens we need to deal with IC sometime soon, which will require solving a number of problems:
Plan "Bury the Hatchet 0. This probably won't happen until the Jovian people are ready to fight for independence, with Martian and Titanian fleets repaired and on standby to prevent missile-related atrocities. 1. Negotiate with IC+UT about the 2. We'll more-or-less have to promise to let the triumvirs escape into anonymous exile on a private moon/continent, except... 3. It really doesn't matter what we do with them because the SB/illuminati bullshit still exists, and since Mars' foreign policy is basically as Crazycryodude summed it up "a Martian is the best ally you could ever ask for, but god help you if you make an enemy of them." we don't double-cross them. But we also do not give them a free pass and backstab TFS in the process. So they'll end up escaping or assassinated or... There's a slim chance, but Saros might not pick the "maximum audience trolling" ending option. Outcomes of the negotiations are TBD but 4-7 are likely possibilities to consider: 4. Terra already has way more population and industry and shipyards, while fuel/minerals are their strategic weakpoint and they don't need any more dissatisfied colonies to manage with their current political climate and scattered empire, so in exchange for letting UT take a big share of TNE resources and fuel reserves/refineries/harvesters we can probably get pretty much everything else and liberate all of IC's workers. 5. ...and at least a couple of moons , this time for sure.  6. UT+Mars equally get the all the tech IC has. 7. During the transition of power when laws/enforcement are functionally nonexistent, if IC's corporate/political structure undergoes some reorganization that results in a lot of former police/gestapo and managers going missing, well that's just unfortunate for them. (Maybe they should have chosen a career other than as professional thugs and/or cracking the whip for quarterly bonuses.) Nevets posted:You guys do know that immediately giving all the 'emancipated' proles 8 weeks paid vacation, unlimited sick leave and a 50% wage increase is going to result in a massive loss of efficiency on the newly 'liberated' shipyards & factories right when we want them churning out our new Nebula pattern ships, right? silentsnack fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 04:42
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Saros posted:
Space Fortress Phobos II Ladies and greasy goons, I present to you plans for a orbital weapons platform so powerful that calling it a mere battle station does not do it justice. Armed with 50 twin turrets each of Gauss and 15cm Lasers capable of tracking any human vessel and even the fartcrab missiles, The Phobos II Space Fortress is a veritable death blossom. In addition to the heaviest beam armament ever envisioned she also bristles with 200 ASM launchers and a design loadout sufficient for 50 salvos. A staggering 10 thousand ship killing missiles. Interspersed between her primary armament another 100 ASM launchers actively seek out and pre-emptively destroy any incoming fire. With magazines carrying more than 32 thousand ASMs, her defensively are virtually impossible to saturate. Furthermore, she's built far more robustly than any 20th century tank. With 60 layers of ceramic composite armor backing up 100 of Mars' finest shield generators, she is unsinkable. No mere orbital platform, the Phobos II would be capable of traveling at a blistering 1490 km/s. Admittedly far slower than any of our new fleet ships, but still much faster than any human dreamed of going prior to this century. Her one, small, flaw is that our existing Jump Drive Efficiency does not permit us to build a jump drive capable of transferring her through a JP. However, she can easily traverse our gate network and is so monstrously powerful that we could comfortably fortify a JP with one while a gate constructor worked. Oh, and did I mention that this marvel of engineering can be built solely using our ground based construction capacity leaving our shipyards free for other work. Edit: I forgot to mention the two full brigades of Marines! Who to inform: Everyone. It's not exactly subtle. Designs: Sample design specs are below using the old skunkworks save. Feel free to replace any of my custom designs with existing components. Goal: Be ludicrously awesome. An unconventional answer to assaulting JPs. Phobos II posted:Replacement Moon class Space Fortress 2 000 000 tons 49985 Crew 287906.0001 BP TCS 40000 TH 59616 EM 7500 LLSix fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 05:48
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Can we even build that? I could never build a massive orbital fort due to maintenance limitations. Or is that actually a PDC?
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Dec 21, 2017 06:34
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With an 18 year maintenance lifecycle we might be able to build our maintenance facilities up to where they could service it. To service a 2mil ton ship we'd need 10,000 maintenance facilities, requiring a total of 1.5mil BP's, which is 5 times as many as the ship itself. So if we could build it in 3 years or less, we could build up our maintenance facilities over the next 15 years to the point where they could service it before it fell apart.
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Dec 21, 2017 07:08
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Added Space posted:Can we even build that? I could never build a massive orbital fort due to maintenance limitations. It is not a PDC. 20 extra layers of free armor would be hilarious.
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Dec 21, 2017 07:12
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That is the sort of thing we want to outsource to ex-IC construction workers. Moderate amounts of technology, useful, easy to see coming, needs lots of crew. Press gang those pesky reactionaries into the crew and we have solved two problems. And the new problems that would pop up would be amusing...
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Dec 21, 2017 07:35
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Don’t really know/participate enough to effectively submit a proposal, though to my personal Dammit, now I’m kicking myself because I didn’t think of it first!
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Dec 21, 2017 07:40
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Anta posted:That's just not how workers or people in general work. Especially if they're working for themselves instead of the IC bossman. There's a pretty vast gap of alternatives between the inefficiencies of slavery and serfdom and optimizing for welfare, which isn't the same as optimizing for efficiency, even though the two greatly overlap. Technological unemployment has started to become a real thing since the 1970s, reducing the number of workers. Bring on the UBI or we may soon live in interesting times. Returning to the topic at hand, the IC does not have any MAD right? Because if I were them I'd have been working on that after losing the last war. Might want to make sure before we go wallop them. Can't see the Terrans refusing us, after saving their asses, as long as they get a small portion of the proceeds. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 07:47
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HereticMIND posted:Don’t really know/participate enough to effectively submit a proposal, though to my personal Mwhahahahahha
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Dec 21, 2017 07:49
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HereticMIND posted:Don’t really know/participate enough to effectively submit a proposal, though to my personal It does manage to occupy that sweet-spot between "legit planning" and "crazy enough to work" that truly embodies the Martian Way.
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Dec 21, 2017 07:49
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Torpedoing Terra's political system may have political consequences that are harder to predict than space battles. Chaos is the most likely result. In the middle of a war with technologically superior aliens. We should just cash in our chips and take out the IC. It's an easy, predictable gain. We should use our massive leverage to ensure we get the great majority of their assets. Other that that we have to focus on the fartcrabs. Saros said the plan was too broad, probably we could cut it down and do it in portions - but do we really want to? It's risky and the hoped for consequences seem wishful. The whole part of going from 'Reveal Secrets, Embaress Government' to 'Unification Talks' is incredibly vague. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 07:55
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RA Rx posted:Torpedoing Terra's political system may have political consequences that are harder to predict than space battles. I think he was commenting the original plan which honestly was actually incredibly different than this one.
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Dec 21, 2017 07:59
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LLSix posted:Space Fortress Phobos II Any chance of mounting
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Dec 21, 2017 08:03
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Maximum Acceleration Gain even more leverage by offering Putina a full military and technological alliance in return for the complete annexation of IC remnants by Mars, and open emigration to Mars. Part of this agreement would involve a census of Terrans who sympathize with and wish to immigrate to Mars, and a legally binding agreement that we receive every person who's signed on. We get population, the rest of the IC, and humanity gets maximum military cooperation (during a time of existential crisis) and technological advancement. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 08:53
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The Dominion of Sol v2 plan sounds a good idea, but I would like to not work with Earth First as they seem isolationist (which is an utter anathema to this plan) and probably not very pro Mars at all. Maybe it's worth checking specifically, are the faction called "Earth First" a friendly, internationalist group who just want to restore earth's environment, or are they hardline isolationists and racists? Oh, and obviously build the Phobos II.
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Dec 21, 2017 09:29
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Actually I agree @ Saros what other views do the Earth First guys have because if they are irredeemable shitheads/nazi's/etc. then we probably shouldn't work with them.
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Dec 21, 2017 09:40
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Jack2142 posted:Actually I agree You'll never get anywhere in politics with that sort of attitude.
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Dec 21, 2017 09:52
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mossyfisk posted:You'll never get anywhere in politics with that sort of attitude. Sounds like collaborator talk to me, Mossyfisk.
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Dec 21, 2017 11:07
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mossyfisk posted:You'll never get anywhere in politics with that sort of attitude. Didn't know you posted here, Mr. Kissinger.
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Dec 21, 2017 15:01
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Z the IVth posted:Any chance of mounting Sure.
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Dec 21, 2017 16:03
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Z the IVth posted:Any chance of mounting This guy Space Prussias. But related to that massive 2mil ton Battle Moon, I'd personally put CIWS instead of Gauss on the station just so it will even work with jump blindness as CIWS doesn't require target lock it just always fires on incoming missiles which would make it more useful for forcing a JP.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:44
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You know, before we start planning to destroy the UT's government we should probably check what we actually know about it. Basically stuff like what the political leader's current stances are and their disposition towards us and such. Maybe I am just being a bit slow/have overlooked it but it might be nice if we figured out how much of a potential threat, if any, their current government is before we decide if we want to break it up. I know people like to post that the UT government is a bunch of horrible monsters just waiting for an advantage over us to destroy us and take over, but those are also the ones that are eager to wait for an advantage to try and take over UT themselves. I am not saying that we should treat them like complete allies and trust them 100%, just maybe we should think about what we actually know about them instead of making assumptions. Also, we totally need a Battle Moon.
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Dec 21, 2017 19:12
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Sooooo, full disclosure. This was supposed to be finished days ago, but a dentist's --- Meanwhile, on the bridge of the Resolution-class CJ Vedette. Commander Serpentis ran through the duty rosters for the next day’s shifts, again, chair turned slightly away from the rest of the crew. For the … well, it had to be fifth or six time in the shift, by this point. He practically could recite it without notes by now. Like the shield generator part replacement schedule, another invitation to yet another wind-blasted dome committee back home he ‘sadly’ must miss due to duty, and five more requests from the Mars state media channels for comment that had rolled in since first contact had gone down; all he’d already read, filled out, and fired off in triplicate as needed. Parked up and waiting for news from Nova Sol, there wasn’t much immediate else to do but read and wait. But! It’d be negligent to do nothing for the Navy and Mars in idle hours. Hells, that’d be the case on a normal day. With all the madness of the Pit on the one hand, and the mad dash for Nova Sol to observe on the other, this was anything but normal. And here he was, sitting in a system full of yet more aliens, these distinctly monstrous in nature… shepherding what was essentially a non-combat vessel while the pride of the fleet burned to Nova Sol or directly battled the foe in system. He tutted to himself as he signed off on another page, and muttered something profane about his luck. Cutting-edge, unquestionably, the Vedette, and a damned good and useful ship. Just … not the most glorious posting. The moment of irritation passed. Almost right away, he chastised himself; what a selfish reaction that was! Yes, he could not help Mars fight these aliens with missiles or beams, but he could do it with planning and proud words, backed with zeal and conviction. In short; proper preparation. And preparation for dealing with this new threat was vital. He’d pored over the combat data from those ships blessed enough to engage the enemy from the Pit; well, ‘crabs’, as the ratings were calling them. He certainly could see why; there was an undeniable physical resemblance from the autopsy report, after all. But was there something more to it than that? Was there a fel design in their unnatural movement, their vicious clawing attitude to combat, that was a clue to their intentions? Behind his hand, he frowned. Maybe he was overthinking it… Or maybe they were so alien, so unnatural, that they deserved such analysis of their foul nature, as well as their looks? …or were they just like humans in mind, if not in body? He was regretting the joke about ‘butter and garlic bread for a victory grill’ he’d put in the last comms back to Mars after learning of the resemblance, though. That his XO had found it hilarious, so much so she’d passed it on to other officers, who naturally leaked it to their sections, meant that the next ship-scale requisition form he had to fill in was a surreal experience. Expectations to meet and morale to keep, and all that. Whatever the hells the requisition officers back with Supply were thinking about him now would be another matter entirely. The Commander smiled at the thought of the XO wearing a chef’s hat, grilling alien, briefly coming into his mind on the winds, before swatting it down and going back to the display. Focus in all things. Last page. Holden and his team last rotation, sensor ops… yes, all well there. He signed off on it with a forefinger tapping out the commands, before turning his chair back towards the bridge’s front. He leaned back and waved away the roster, and was about to pull up another simulated battle plan for if the crabs got close to the jump cruisers, when he hissed quietly as the familiar fang of pain slid into the back of his head and his vision blurred slightly. Irony was, despite all his personal preparations, all the coffee stops, painkillers and walks about the ship to ‘take a break’ as the doctor had recommended… yes, there was that damned migraine coming on again. No medical rhyme or reason as the doc had seen it; she had chalked it up to “bad luck, or stress”. The once, he’d have agreed with. Twice? A jumping problem, he’d have guessed, as much fun as that would be to report. But now, on a third time since the squadron had arrived in the Pit and stayed there… not the most portentous omen. Still. He at least knew how to salve his soul, even if the mind was still a bit fraught. And he could make the time. “XO, sign the roster off when you’re done, and post it. You have the bridge. And if you still want to ram the next crab ship that pops up face-first, you’ve my permission, but ping me a warning, would you be so kind?” A snort and an “Aye, Commander” were all he heard from her as he stepped off the bridge and back to the nearest lift. Back to his quarters. And solitude, temporarily. --- The door slid closed behind him, and the lock engaged a moment later. The commander sighed, and tossed his hat onto his desk, running a hand through his hair. He stepped into the washroom to clean his hands, sighing as he caught a glimpse of the tell-tale start of bags under his eyes in the mirror. Maybe he should see the doctor on the way back. See if there was something to the stress diagnosis after all. But not now. He stepped into the washroom, filled up the sink, and after dousing his hand, took off his jacket and rummaged about in the inside pocket. He reached under the sink, behind a loose panel, drew out the bottle of red dusty sand from home, and tapped out a small amount onto his forefinger. Slowly, he began to trace out the curved patterns on his chest. Ah, for a proper place to conduct the rite, he thought to himself as he hummed a tune and moved past the second crest. Well, he didn’t have that luxury, now did he? Mars would hear his plea, no matter how far he was from her. The cabin was silent for a few minutes more as he continued, thin rising and falling lines in red starting to dance across his torso, with the occasional pause for more sand and water. But as he moved to place the last sign, the rounded rune of Mars above his heart, he paused. He realised he’d let his zeal get ahead of him again, and not thought out what he was going to actually say. He weighed up the risk for a moment. Here, at least, he could close the bathroom door in a pinch, but his personal prayer-holo was in the main room desk, and if one of the officers came in with urgent news while he was preparing in there and reading … Hm. Best not to chance it. He tutted at his own recklessness before taking a breath. Perhaps a classic would serve in times like these. “O Martis, hallowed be thy dunes, Guard my soul as darkness yet looms; In the name of the Saints, let red light dawn, Over lands far from your grace and forsworn; Yet as blessed Saffiya prais’d your name, Let your truths be known across Sol once again.” He’d just about managed to get halfway through “Amen” before he heard a knock at the door. His lunge for the close button on the washroom door might have been the fastest he’d made a grab for something since the first “relaxed Friday night” he’d been a part of in the officer’s barracks. The washroom door hissed closed as he heard the internal room comm fire up. “Commander? Sorry to interrupt your shut-eye, but news from Nova Sol. Urgent. You’re wanted on the bridge.” He managed to stifle a groan. How was it always MacTavish with the bad timing on this ship…? “Understood, LT, I’ll be there in three.” He waited for a second for the lieutenant to kill the call and leave before quietly tapping out the rune of Mars with an “Amen.” Two minutes later, he’d cleaned himself and was back in uniform, moving back towards the bridge to hear the news…
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Dec 21, 2017 19:52
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If we can't absorb UT peacefully, and aren't willing to risk the hellwar of conquering them, we should think about which version of the UT is the least threatening to our ambitions. I think the answer is to work to keep a weak Putina in power, desperately balancing the factions of UT. Why? Think of any of the major factions taking power, and the risks it would pose. A victory by the hardliners would mean an immediate return to the sort of bullshit bullying we were dealing with with papa Putin. So we certainly don't want that. The reformers are ultimately just as dangerous though--if they're successful in remaking the UT, that means that even if in the short term we get along, we'll be stuck with the UT more or less forever. They could be partners, or they could surpass us. Finally, we have no clue about the earth first crowd. I'm basically imagining that they're less a unified movement and more a constellation of disparate tendencies, grouping neo-fascists and hippies together in the demand that resources are concentrated on earth. If they seized leadership, we have no clue how they would govern in practice, and which tendencies would win out. Still, we would benefit from them having a strong voice, because a reallocation of UT attention to the home front would limit their ability to keep up with us. Thus I propose Plan Kerensky 1) Our formal stance will be that Putina needs to retain control. We will work with her on common defense vs xenos, and try to build institutions to foster general cooperation among the various polities of Sol. These institutions will be as weak as they need to be to get everyone to buy in, but they'll give us a forum and they'll lay the groundwork for the future. Less space-EU, more space-UN. 2) Informally, our goal is to keep Putina in power not by the virtue her own success, but by the virtue of her weakness. Her reform faction should be strong enough to deliver incremental improvements and keep the population engaged, but not strong enough to rule alone. The earth firsters should be strong enough that Putina needs to spend serious resources to keep them in line, but not so strong as seize power themselves. Same for the hardliners- powerful, but not powerful enough to rule by themselves. Both the hardliners and the earthfirsters should hate her, but see her as the only bulwark against their enemies seizing total control. 2a) To achieve this, we will need to use all our tools. Some of this will be done via our intelligence services--spreading information and misinformation, leaking sensitive data, and otherwise subtly intervening to boost who we need to boost in that moment, and cut down who we need to cut down. We can also use our diplomacy to these ends- when Putina needs a win, we find one for her, and when a faction needs a public opinion boost we do what we can to spark one. 3) If successful, this plan would slowly rot the UT. It won't collapse tomorrow, but it'll pour resources into fixing the rainforests instead of claiming systems. Their navy will be designed to appease hawks and filled with cronies, not a fighting force to win wars. The government will be nominally stable, but will never be dynamic or strong. Basically the USSR in the 70s and 80s. 4) Super-long term, we use the power differential that will develop to slowly minimize their influence, and start turning those weak institutions into strong ones dominated by us.
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Dec 21, 2017 20:17
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Im going to back any motion that isn't some insane power grab in the midst of a threat from a more powerful alien civilisation. I would really like us to dip out toes in the terraforming business.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:28
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Affi posted:Im going to back any motion that isn't some insane power grab in the midst of a threat from a more powerful alien civilisation. We've been terraforming Mars since before the thread started, does that count?
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Dec 21, 2017 21:38
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I think instead of messing around with Terran politics, where we are both strategic rivals to their government but also need them for common defence against aliens, we focus on internal development and terraforming. Remember that the bulk of our power and economy come from Mars itself.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:46
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Serpentis posted:Sooooo, full disclosure. This was supposed to be finished days ago, but a dentist's this is a really nice rich piece, I love the Mars culture we're building up in this LP.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:59
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So everyone's been proposing either massive Peacemoons or annexing of various other human polities. I'd like to put forward my modest proposalquote:Forges of Mars
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Dec 21, 2017 22:15
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I'm considering writing a little slice of my own fiction as well, but for that, I would like if I could get a detailed bit of status on the condition of my ship? I mean besides "Totally hosed", I know that much already. 
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Dec 21, 2017 23:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRlQIlp4WVM
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Dec 21, 2017 23:33
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Mars First needs to be hosed up and fast. Also I hope the Internationale is doing okay. Just having a nice long chat with Speedy.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:43
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Well, there goes most of the goodwill from assisting in the Earth's refugee crisis & defending Nova Sol.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:57
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Nevets posted:Well, there goes most of the goodwill from assisting in the Earth's refugee crisis & defending Nova Sol. Never mind that. How the actual gently caress did they get a 1 MT nuke?!
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Dec 22, 2017 00:12
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Inglonias posted:Never mind that. How the actual gently caress did they get a 1 MT nuke?! Harris. This is totally Harris' fault I guarantee it. This seems like a move right out of Senator Warcrimes' playbook.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:22
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When the right hand and the left Should know nothing of the other Nevertheless they clap Harris we must slap
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Dec 22, 2017 00:39
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Inglonias posted:Never mind that. How the actual gently caress did they get a 1 MT nuke?! Obviously the Martian government's tacit support for this radical group allowed them to infiltrate the military enough to secure a WMD; and a lack of proper internal controls due to Mar's fanatical nationalist ethics which led to the incorrect assumption that no Martian would ever put his desires above the nation. --- UT Senator Mediawhore
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Dec 22, 2017 00:39
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