|
1. Dominon of Sol. 2. Fleet Programme Supplement Alpha
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 09:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 09:08 |
|
|
If we go down the "Dominon of Sol route" I can see the history books in crabland reading something like;Annals of Crabtopia posted:Despite initial stunning successes (and occasional cannibalism) against the Crabulan Expeditionary Fleet, the Humans of "Sol" were unable to maintain a united polity and quickly fell to infighting. Due to the fractured nature of their society, their defeat was inevitable. we should not seek to undermine even our least trustworthy allies while the extent of the enemy remains unknown. 1. Crabs First 2. Case October
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 09:10
|
|
|
1) Forges of Mars 2) Operation BIVALVE
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 09:20
|
|
|
Crabs First Project Eden/Forge of Mars
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 10:05
|
|
|
Plan Crabs First
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 10:25
|
|
|
Project Eden/Forges of Mars -- combine this with telling mars firsters that if they denounce their association and give us dirt on other members, they get first dibs on being terraforming crews. They are fanatics, so if their cause is making Mars green, let them have at it. No further terrorist acts tho. Plan Crabs First - UT later/OPERATION BIVALVE/Bury the Hatchet/SETI/Humanity First
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 10:27
|
|
|
1. Phobos 2. SETI Let's go all Freespace 2 on this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 10:28
|
|
|
Space Fortress Phobos II Crabs First Disappointed how little support insane doom moon is receiving. I'm sure its a terrible idea, but impractical super weapons seems like exactly what Mars would do.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 11:30
|
|
|
mossyfisk posted:Space Fortress Phobos II We're in a war against aliens who want to kill all humans, we need practical weapons or we're all dead. The Comedy Option Chucklefucks can't win every vote.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 13:42
|
|
|
For my It probably wouldn't get to it, but does ANYONE want to fight 2 seperate fronts against the UT & Krabs? And since I have just gained a whole lot of (perceived) INT points for my (biased) ideas, I will immediately spend them on Space Fortress Phoboss II. Because it's hilarious and awesome. Note: Phobos II is my main vote, Krabs First is the Seconday. Tactical_Torpedo fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Dec 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 14:35
|
|
|
1. Plan Crabs First 2. Anything but Dominion Dear Facility, anything but Dominion. There's a difference between die-hard and insane. How did the hubris get to our heads this quickly? We all need to rally around whatever plan is the most popular outside of Dominion (and that's looking like Crabs First atm), so I suggest 'Anything but Dominion' as a practical secondary vote, if that's allowed? Dominion of Sol - 18 Crabs First/Bivalve/Seti - 15 Eden/Forges of Mars - 15 (slightly over half are secondary votes) Phoboss II - 6 Edit: the votes are actually rougly the same after striking out primary votes opposed to the secondary, not a lot of people voting both Crabs and Dominion RA Rx fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 15:12
|
|
|
1. Plan Crabs First - UT later 2. Fleet Programme Supplement Alpha
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 15:41
|
|
|
Dominion of Sol Forges of Mars
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 15:46
|
|
|
I'm not sure how Saros wants to handle second choices so counting just first choices, Dominion of Sol has 19 of 39 votes. Almost half. The next two closest are Crabs First and Project Eden at 7. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lM0qy2GfZ00MN-Lt_G76dxEMjEYFgPG_3Z91AX_wW4A/edit#gid=0 Given recent events I think I'd prefer Eden to try and undercut the terrorists. Project Eden Crab First LLSix fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Dec 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 15:54
|
|
|
I mislike the Dominion of Sol idea, so a tactical vote for "literally anything but what's most likely to put us in a three-way war with everyone else in the galaxy": Project Eden Runner up: Crabs First
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 16:09
|
|
|
Crabs First Project Eden
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
Crabs First Space Fortress Phobos II Inciting a civil war or even interplanetary war with an ally while facing down a technologically superior enemy with unknown industrial capacity is not being silly, it's being stupid. I'm all for taking the silly option when it doesn't carry a potentially game-ending/ruining consequence, but the crabs represent an existential threat. Zurai fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Dec 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 16:36
|
|
|
Again, we're not actually inciting a war or anything, we're just... telling the truth. That's it. Just infodumping everything we know, and pointing out that humanity has to unify because this is a really poo poo universe. We speculate that there will probably be some small wars because the Illuminati seems not to like this, but a big free-for-all war of conquest between all the factions is neither likely nor the goal. Are you really that scared of the truth? Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Dec 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
Seafood makes an excellent appetiser and therefore Crabs first please.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 17:28
|
|
|
Crazycryodude posted:Again, we're not actually inciting a war or anything, we're just... telling the truth. That's it. Just infodumping everything we know, and pointing out that humanity has to unify because this is a really poo poo universe. We speculate that there will probably be some small wars because the Illuminati seems not to like this, but a big free-for-all war of conquest between all the factions is neither likely nor the goal. Jack2142 posted:Dominion of Sol V2 Not inciting a war, eh? There's also nothing in the plan about telling the truth or making public the current war with the fartcrabs. LLSix fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Dec 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 17:46
|
|
|
Not out-right inciting a war, but if you're not willing to get on the Dominion train, you're gonna get stomped out. The Dominion is the future, The Dominion is life.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 17:50
|
|
|
LLSix posted:Not inciting a war, eh? Jack2142 posted:Dominion of Sol V2 Plus, crushing any opposition to a united human front is just a necessary step for when the Illuminati inevitably tries to interfere, not something we actively want to erupt into a massive hellwar.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
Switching to Crabs First to give it that extra edge over Dominion of Sol, which is loving dumb and suicidal, Jesus Christ guys have we learned anything since Al Andalus? Maintaining my runner up of Project Eden.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
Well all right, plan Crabs First it'll have to be then.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 18:16
|
|
|
1) Make Mars Whole 2) Crabs First
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 18:32
|
|
|
Switching to Crabs First and Project Eden second.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 18:35
|
|
|
Erwin the German posted:Switching to Crabs First to give it that extra edge over Dominion of Sol, which is loving dumb and suicidal, Jesus Christ guys have we learned anything since Al Andalus? What was Al Andalus? Sounds like a goon Paradox Parliament that went stupidly wrong. Got a link?
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 18:53
|
|
|
Oh, both parts are part of the same plan. I thought only part 2 was Dominion of Sol since it's actually labeled that. My mistake. Going public about the crabs is a righteous idea. I'm glad there's some part of that terrible plan that isn't completely insane.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 18:57
|
|
|
Dominion of Sol Phobos II Time to go out with a bang.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
LLSix posted:What was Al Andalus? Sounds like a goon Paradox Parliament that went stupidly wrong. Got a link? You're right on the money. We got too big for our britches, made a rival of a country we really had no beef with, and the results of that arrogance haunted us for the rest of EU4 -- and to make matters worse, we had an active accelerationist wing of voters who wanted to rush towards a republican style revolutionary government, which ended with a balkanized Iberia. It's a beautiful slow motion car crash, and a well written LP besides. It's ongoing with us at the nadir of our fortunes (as one of the surviving balkanized states) and about to transition to Victoria 2. Here you go. On a more relevant note, I'm confused, aren't the fartcrabs like, super-duper public knowledge at this point? Saros explicitly said the footage of their exosuit boarders was the most watched video in human history. Erwin the German fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 19:08
|
|
|
Crazycryodude posted:Again, we're not actually inciting a war or anything, we're just... telling the truth. That's it. The plan involves more than just simply telling the truth, and the manner in which the truth is being told is explicitly designed to destabilize Terra and thus potentially the entire Sol system right as we're entering a war with a technologically superior and hyper-aggressive alien species. It smacks of hubris. It's exactly like the Terran jump point guard fleet which we warned of the incoming crab fleet. They just knew they could handle it with conventional, oldfleet tactics regardless of the fact that we gave them a full datadump showing they were making a huge mistake. That mistake cost them 3 million dead humans and a massive blow to public confidence in their entire government. Destabilizing Terra at this point is the same sort of massively overconfident mistake. In the absolute best case Terra collapses and we're left to fight the crabs alone until we can absorb the remnants of Terra. In the worst case we fight a hot war with Terra and the crabs at the same time, with MAD missiles involved while we still only have one real population center -- the one with all the missiles pointed at it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
Zurai posted:a really solid argument Couldn't put it better myself. Dominion of Sol has laudable goals but in the present moment it's fantastically arrogant and, worse, misguided. That's a fatal combination.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 20:40
|
|
|
also, we really don't need to do anything to make this lp more interesting and dynamic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 20:54
|
|
|
Allow me to retort: Since the war with the IC, the Terran government has done nothing but gently caress us over or gently caress themselves over in increasingly disastrous ways that have gotten millions of people killed and placed even more at risk. Time and time again they either have actively tried to gently caress us over (trying to claim Ranginui and shut us out of the jump network) or have placed millions at risk through their bad decisions (Crazy Commodore, failing to do anything about the missing scout ships in any reasonable way, setting up a chain of events that got Nova Sol nuked). As it stands the Terran government, as I have been consistently arguing ever since the nuking of Russia, has proven themselves to be both a threat to Martian galactic security and the security of humanity as a whole no matter who is in charge. The idea of allying with such an unreliable and potentially dangerous actor to me is quite frankly ludicrous. And quite frankly the information release puts Mars at the least amount of risk. By contrast Mars has time and time again proven to be able to either conduct themselves in a manner benefiting humanity or been able to deal with whatever problems Terra have caused. And in many cases, both. (And OOC, I would point out that the Space Illuminati/Harris are still out there, and more than likely would try to sabotage any alliance with Terra because Vague Conspiracy Bullshit.) I'm aware that the Dominion of Sol plan is risky but quite frankly the alternative of treating Terra as an equal partner when they have repeatedly demonstrated they cannot be a reliable ally seems to me like a plan that can easily spell disaster for not only Mars, but all of humanity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 21:02
|
|
|
Dominion Lite with a side of Crabs 'Lite' referring to this plan which I wrote up but didn't post before the cutoff. Basically a modified dominion except without antagonistically destabilizing UT's government. (edit: makes more sense as two different items) Plan 'sleep, coffee/food, photoshop. in that order.' Make sure we're broadcasting propaganda aimed at boosting morale and emphasizing unity to discredit the ideology 'Mars First' is pushing. But also emphasizing that Mars is awesome but if you're stuck with a government that sucks you should fight for unionized labor. This part doesn't interfere with the other plans, and presumably we already have propaganda, so it concurrently runs in the background regardless of which we go with. Plan 'Totally Not a Timecube Rant' For actual actions, it ends up as somewhere between a modified Dominion and Acceleration in that we should 'work together' with UT to an extent (civil war or military coup/junta would be bad) but indirectly undermine it in ways that can be exploited later. Especially UT the political entity is partly defined by false claim to authority: Saros posted:Terra is the rightful heir to the Solar System and the Galaxy. Her wayward children must be brought back into line and humanities resources bent towards the single task of claiming the stars. The net result is that we need to 'work together' as allies with extra 'together', like a loose quasi-federation where each planet/polity/etc maintains its independence but with unified leadership (not rulership). To succeed at the common goal of not going extinct, we need to coordinate so that strategic-level decisions should be made by a small leadership counsel that takes guidance from a larger senate/etc so everyone's interests get representation. For now, Mars should lead because nobody else can. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Dec 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
Dr. Snark posted:I'm aware that the Dominion of Sol plan is risky but quite frankly the alternative of treating Terra as an equal partner when they have repeatedly demonstrated they cannot be a reliable ally seems to me like a plan that can easily spell disaster for not only Mars, but all of humanity. Crabs First doesn't treat UT as an equal partner. In fact, the full name of the plan is Crabs First, UT Later. Eating UT is still in the cards, but it acknowledges that the hand we've got right now isn't good enough to run the table on both the Crab and UT. It does propose to prop up the UT for now, but it doesn't in any way consider them equals.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 22:23
|
|
|
Zurai posted:Crabs First doesn't treat UT as an equal partner. In fact, the full name of the plan is Crabs First, UT Later. Eating UT is still in the cards, but it acknowledges that the hand we've got right now isn't good enough to run the table on both the Crab and UT. It does propose to prop up the UT for now, but it doesn't in any way consider them equals. That plan also assumes that UT won't try to gently caress us before then. Remember how pissy they got the last time we messed with their sorium supplies? I'm legitimately fairly sure that they aren't going to be as accommodating to an even split of the IC at all. You talk about how the Dominion plan has potential side effects, but the fact of the matter is that Crabs First gives Terra more opportunity to get stronger, potentially find a legitimate victory to rally themselves around, and might not even benefit Mars at all. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Dec 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 22:26
|
|
|
Zurai posted:Crabs First doesn't treat UT as an equal partner. In fact, the full name of the plan is Crabs First, UT Later. Eating UT is still in the cards, but it acknowledges that the hand we've got right now isn't good enough to run the table on both the Crab and UT. It does propose to prop up the UT for now, but it doesn't in any way consider them equals. The problem is the longer the UT exists the more difficult defeating them would be... literally the entire LP we have been saying "we will get them later, but now isn't the time", and this will keep continuing and passing the buck down the line. The Crabs first Terrans latter plan is going to incredibly quickly be the "Crabs first Terrans never" Plan. The UT is tough because of how big it is... right now it is probably the shakiest it's been since the time their navy decided to nuke Earth, where people were adamant we couldn't deal with them. In Space 4x Games, the bigger you get the faster... allows you to balloon exponentially. Terra started with more people, more ships and more industry, what they lacked was TNE's (Now being resolved by interstellar colonies) and technology (Research + Finds + Mystery Source) This is completely different from Al-Andalus, we are in an entirely different game and we aren't making a nation a rival for no reason... Terra already is our rival we have been in a Cold War with them since before the LP began. The goal of the Dominion Plan isn't to drop a truth bomb and then start War-Declaring everyone like Revolutionary France, its to invite everyone to a conference either to sign a new treaty to defend against the Fart Crabs and hopefully get most of the system on board. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Dec 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 22:33
|
|
|
Dr. Snark posted:That plan also assumes that UT won't try to gently caress us before then. Remember how pissy they got the last time we messed with their sorium supplies? I'm legitimately fairly sure that they aren't going to be as accommodating to an even split of the IC at all. Frankly, we could give Terra all of the Sorium refining operations on Jupiter and come out way ahead on the deal. We don't care that much about the Sorium, we care about the shipyards and population centers. I don't think Terra is in a real position to contest those -- Putina doesn't have any reason to think the former IC wageslaves would want her in power and she's on a shakier political ground than we are. We do have the Mars Firsters who won't like us swallowing the moons, but she has her own Earth First movement to worry about in addition to all the other political mess she's in. And it's not like the Sorium from Jupiter is going to suddenly make Terra independent where they weren't before -- they have their own Sorium access now. As for "might not benefit Mars at all", it certainly does. It means we don't have to fight the Crabs alone. We may have managed to luck our way into victories so far, but we've always severely outnumbered the Crabs. The instant they come at us with anything approaching even numbers, we are going to be demolished, so we have to make sure that never happens. The best way to do that in the short term is to make it so we're not having to supply the entire anti-Crab fleet while also having to keep major fleet assets stationed in Sol to defend against attacks from a destabilized UT. Jack2142 posted:The problem is the longer the UT exists the more difficult defeating them would be... literally the entire LP we have been saying "we will get them later, but now isn't the time", and this will keep continuing and passing the buck down the line. The Crabs first Terrans latter plan is going to incredibly quickly be the "Crabs first Terrans never" Plan. The UT is tough because of how big it is... right now it is probably the shakiest it's been since the time their navy decided to nuke Earth, where people were adamant we couldn't deal with them. In Space 4x Games, the bigger you get the faster... allows you to balloon exponentially. Terra started with more people, more ships and more industry, what they lacked was TNE's (Now being resolved by interstellar colonies) and technology (Research + Finds + Mystery Source) It's true that we've been saying "Terra later" from the start, but what you're either conveniently ignoring or not realizing is that the reason for addressing them later has changed. We were forced into the Luna Accords because we absolutely 100% could not take Terra head-on. We would have lost that war badly. We didn't have a big enough tech lead on Terra to make up for their massive industrial and fleet quantity advantages. Now, however, we've seen that Terran fleet assets are woefully behind the times. I genuinely believe that we could take Terra in a one-on-one fight if we had to, now. The thing is, attacking Terra now would not be a one-on-one fight because we have to spend a significant portion of the fleet guarding against the Crabs. Zurai fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Dec 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 22:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 09:08 |
|
|
More importantly Dominion does not presume a shooting war as some people in the thread seem to believe. The idea behind it is that it's a diplomatic measure first, and one that ideally doesn't involve us shooting at UT.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2017 22:39
|
|