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That always feels to me like ranking the chapters of a book.
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Dec 21, 2017 14:38
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Episodes are chapters, seasons are books.
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Dec 21, 2017 18:32
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d0grent posted:Episodes are chapters, seasons are books. Shows are libraries 
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Dec 21, 2017 19:30
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It's why shows are better at adapting book series since the formats are more similar and you don't have to condense a 400 page book into 2 hours of material like movies do.
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Dec 21, 2017 19:48
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Shemp the Stooge posted:White Rose doesn't control people or travel through time, but can send some information back through time. Anyone who uses that information to change things suffers mental and physical effects as a result. Eliot is more tolerant to those effects than most. Eliot's dad being sick was a new thing, probably related to the plant being the end point for received information. Him keeping it from his family was an attempt to keep his family moving down the same path they did previously, as long as they didn't know the impact would be minimal. When Eliot left him at the theatre it was a bigger divergence than he could handle and he died. White-Roses obsession with time is her attempt to keep as much as possible exactly the same as it was previously as to reduce the negative effects of having that information. This is actually a solid theory because it's exactly what happens in the latest William Gibson novel. Light spoilers: The novel takes place in a future after a devastating "event" that's never really clarified, but it was obviously a massive ecological/bio disaster. Someone who is never revealed but is presumed to be in China has figured out how to use quantum computing to send data back into previous "threads", which don't interfere with the actual present but simply are a divergent path that the Universe took.
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Dec 21, 2017 22:56
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Shemp the Stooge posted:White Rose doesn't control people or travel through time, but can send some information back through time. Anyone who uses that information to change things suffers mental and physical effects as a result. Eliot is more tolerant to those effects than most. Eliot's dad being sick was a new thing, probably related to the plant being the end point for received information. Him keeping it from his family was an attempt to keep his family moving down the same path they did previously, as long as they didn't know the impact would be minimal. When Eliot left him at the theatre it was a bigger divergence than he could handle and he died. White-Roses obsession with time is her attempt to keep as much as possible exactly the same as it was previously as to reduce the negative effects of having that information. I like this theory. Maybe not the specifics, but =they could probably hand wave the science (something something quantum!) Another alternative is White Rose has or is building a quantum computer. With that, you could cut through public key encryption, which is used to secure many communications. (For example, the password to your forums account. Or your bank account. Or your email) Also, she could simply want the Congo for rare earth minerals. It's well known they're the limiting factor in a lot of high tech things, and China has been making strides to controlling them in the real world.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:15
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maskenfreiheit posted:I like this theory. Maybe not the specifics, but =they could probably hand wave the science (something something quantum!) dear lowtax: please implement quantum mechanics proof security to protect my shitposting, tia.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:35
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maskenfreiheit posted:
I thought this was 100% confirmed? Aren't they moving the plant right next to the mine?
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Dec 22, 2017 07:31
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Sending messages back in time has been my favourite fan theory so far. Ties in neatly with all the time travel themes in the show, but is believable technology in our current day. It'd be far more plausable than Mr Robot quantum leaping into Elliot from another timeline.
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Dec 22, 2017 11:10
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The movie theater episode literally gives away the thesis of the show "It's much more complicated than that. It's about  ""Actually, it's much simpler than that. It's about how one mistake can change the world."
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Dec 22, 2017 11:18
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DaveKap posted:I don't want to repeat myself so, in summary, the quality drops, emphasis gets lost, meaning goes undefined, eccentricity goes overused, and overall patterns lose resolution. It is, though, something that you only notice if you're looking for it (and after Season 1 I was looking all over for it, go back and check my posts during that time to see why) and it's just an accumulation of many small things, most of which are on a per-episode basis, with little-to-no examples being large, egregious problems. i'm being pedantic here, but that's not really editing. i get being tired of - i like that term, shortsighting - that particular framing choice in combination with a shallow focus, but it seems strange to harp on s2 and s3 when it's been consistent since s1:   i think esmail has a very distinct style and this device of his is one of them. it can absolutely be annoying - especially if you start paying attention to it. but where you critique the choice i wonder why that choice was made? Usually, i've noticed shortsighting is particularly used for characters with their own agendas hidden from the audience. Elliot, Whiterose, Price, Angela, etc. It also draws your attention when it's not used - when characters finally look at each other, or are framed facing each other, or placed in the center of the frame. Subtlety, i find, is not Esmail's style. His framing and other directorial choices are very deliberate. I also found this interesting, from your link (thanks for sharing): quote:Expanding this style to all of the characters, not just Elliot, was another key decision, one with real storytelling consequences. “We went further with it and used it all over the place,” Campbell says. “That speaks to the idea of Are things real, or are they not? So the idea was to keep it consistent throughout the piece and make people feel like the ground beneath them is undulating constantly. That’s the way Elliot himself feels. It never gives you a sense of really being righted.” we've seen time travel winks and nods ramped up to an extreme these last 2 seasons. it seems the directing was supposed to support that. so i think it's fine to critique Esmail - not the editor - for overusing it, but i think it's a disservice to say it's just because it looks cool. maybe it's a couple of different things? maybe Esmail wanted the audience to really doubt who to trust and what to believe? anyway, you didn't go into too much detail on the other stuff you didn't like, but i'd be interested to hear it. in the meantime, this is one of my favourite shots from the season:  i just love how even though he's taking up almost half of the frame, the building still dwarfs Tyrell. (this is right after Price dismisses him like the bug he is).
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Dec 23, 2017 02:44
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Skizzzer posted:i'm being pedantic here, but that's not really editing. Yeah it’s like “The Mr. Robot Framing Technique” at this point. I always just assumed the goal was to make every character feel more alone and isolated. I dig it
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Dec 23, 2017 03:22
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timp posted:Yeah it’s like “The Mr. Robot Framing Technique” at this point. Skizzzer posted:i'm being pedantic here, but that's not really editing. When I mention that article, I am certainly not talking about editing as that's not the editor the article is talking about, it's the director of photography (or cinematography, depending on what source you check for his credits.) As for the rest, maybe I do have to go back and rewatch Season 1. My current state of memory is telling me that every scene was shot in such a way that you're supposed to get something from it. Every time they shortsight, there's an underlying reason to it that you could suss out. However, my memory is telling me that there wasn't a lot of shortsighting in Season 1. It was done sparingly. Then when Season 2 rolled around, it was just loving everywhere. There would be plenty of times you couldn't discern a good, reliable reason for it. In the end, it was just a thing that Mr. Robot did. Which, I think we can all firmly agree, is exactly what they wanted and is exactly what they did. It's no longer shortsighting, it's just Mr. Robot's typical framing. But I do feel like it's something that can be overdone and it was in Season 2 and, gently caress, I don't even know if Season 3 overdid it because now whenever it happens, I just don't feel anything about it anymore. I don't even really notice it. It doesn't unnerve me because Season 2 made me grow too accustomed to it. This is why I'm so against it being used so much. I want to go back to feeling something with every shot, not just a handful like I do now. Even if I'm willing to admit I have bad memory, I'm also willing to bet that if you went back and counted how many times shortsighting was used in each season, S1 would have the least. As an aside: The Last Jedi has a ton of cinematography and editing that I absolutely love so if you find yourself agreeing with things I say in this thread (all 3 of you) I hope you enjoy the new Star Wars film. 
DaveKap fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 09:52
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Really? I only saw TLJ once, but I actively disliked the camera work/framing. Characters were shot very close, especially in dialog. I rarely felt like I had a sense of the rooms/areas they were in. There were a lot of strange transitions. I specifically remember one where Finn is looking over his shoulder with the camera behind him, then the camera flips to in front of him and he is already looking forward (presumably the second shot would begin with him still looking back then turning to face the camera). There were a number of jarring transitions like that where you can fill in the gap, but it takes you out of the movie. I've found the framing and camera work to be fantastic in Mr. Robot. Likely the best of any TV show I can think of right now. But that's all personal likes/dislikes, as I've never studied film or anything. I guess my question is really more of, what makes TLJ's good, even though that's a little off topic.
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Dec 25, 2017 03:31
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Benson Cunningham posted:I've found the framing and camera work to be fantastic in Mr. Robot. Likely the best of any TV show I can think of right now. But that's all personal likes/dislikes, as I've never studied film or anything. I guess my question is really more of, what makes TLJ's good, even though that's a little off topic. Basically anything shot inside Snokes' room. When Rey and Ben go back to back for the fight and it goes from slow-mo into a normal-mo long-take. The flat side-shot of Ben and Luke standing off. Most of the X-Wing fight shots at the start of the film. The silent scene when Laura Dern blows her ship up. The weird poo poo happening with Rey both when she first sees the dark place and when she's in the dark place's mirror. Finn saying "rebel scum" with out of focus explosions behind him. The camera fly-through entrance of the casino. Framing on Del Toro in the "now or never" shot. Going through the ship's hull when Leia flies back to it. I could keep going and going but a few of those are very specifically awesome because they remind me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AWgzNfzRCk&t=57s I want a Star Wars that looks like this. When you see this art all noir and pulpy, then take into account Rian Johnson made Brick, a noir and pulpy movie, I get a bit excited that he's getting his own trilogy. Er... what this has to do with Mr. Robot? Basically the way Season 1 impacted me in the "getting more out of a scene because of how it's edited and shot" kind of way, I got the same thing from Last Jedi. That's all. There really aren't enough shows or movies that do this to me... to the point I consider it something rare. That's why I felt like pointing it out. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 06:28
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I think the time travel stuff is really far off because of a lack of understanding, on the viewers part, of physics and information technology. I'm almost certain White Rose is making a quantum computer, not to time travel, but because it would allow her to decode e-coin security, maybe even attempt to predetermine future events based upon statistics and collected data. It would allow her to do a multitude of things that would solidify her position as the most powerful person on the planet for the rest of her life. This video will help you understand what a quantum computer can actually do, rather than what you imagine it could do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhHMJCUmq28 Now, just having a simple quantum computer wouldn't change much, but having an absolutely massive and functional end-game quantum computer would change the planet forever. MIT Technology Review MIT Technology Review posted:The system IBM has developed is still extremely finicky and challenging to use, as are those being built by others. In both the 50- and the 20-qubit systems, the quantum state is preserved for 90 microseconds—a record for the industry, but still an extremely short period of time. This is where the show could dip into sci-fi. Some kind of quantum computer, that is functional and most importantly, useful. Maybe White Rose thinks she can time travel with a functional quantum computer (but ultimately not able to), is possible, but suddenly having her suddenly wrote in as that far off the mark would be boring. I just wish people were as excited and impressed with actual science as they are about time travel and alternate dimensions. Here's a quote from Wired about the D-Wave computer and quantum computers likely outcome. Wired.com posted:The dream of quantum computing has always been shrouded in sci-fi hope and hoopla—with giddy predictions of busted crypto, multiverse calculations, and the entire world of computation turned upside down. But it may be that quantum computing arrives in a slower, sideways fashion: as a set of devices used rarely, in the odd places where the problems we have are spoken in their curious language. Quantum computing won’t run on your phone—but maybe some quantum process of Google’s will be key in training the phone to recognize your vocal quirks and make voice recognition better. Maybe it’ll finally teach computers to recognize faces or luggage. Or maybe, like the integrated circuit before it, no one will figure out the best-use cases until they have hardware that works reliably. It’s a more modest way to look at this long-heralded thunderbolt of a technology. But this may be how the quantum era begins: not with a bang, but a glimmer. Oddly enough, the founder of the D-Wave project's name is Geordie Rose. Kabuki Shipoopi fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 18:46
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So I just rewatched Back to the Future 2 last night. The more I think about it, the more I think White Rose's project is a quantum computer. Think about it: the major plot point of BTTF2 is Bif obtaining a sports almanac and using it to place bets. With a quantum computer you can cut through public key encryption. Quick and oversimplified primer: private key encryption is when you enter a password to decrypt something, and the same key encrypts and decrypts. Everyone has the same key and anyone with the key can decrypt. This has a lot of issues, as you can imagine: how does every website agree on a unique encryption key for every user when there's no secure channel to communicate over? Public key encryption splits that in two - there's a PUBLIC key you can share freely and anyone can use to encrypt a message to you. Then there's a PRIVATE key you use to decrypt the files. This is useful, because 1.) it eliminates the need to securely share the key 2.) everyone isn't nessecrily using the same key So for example, the "certificates" your bank, gmail, or these dead gay forums use are public keys. I won't go too deep into the math, but basically public key encryption relies on some assumptions that don't hold up if you're using a quantum computer. So if White Rose could build one, she could theoretically read large chunks of the world's communications. The NSA loves this poo poo for obvious reasons, but hypothetically you could use it for more pedestrian reasons, like reading companies emails to get insider information to trade on. But wait - there's more. Bitcoin (and probably e-coin) rely on public key cryptography. So hypothetically if you can get everyone using these currencies then hijack them, you'll be very rich AND have total information awareness.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:31
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:I think the time travel stuff is really far off because of a lack of understanding, on the viewers part, of physics and information technology. The only reason people are speculating about time travel is because the entire show has been themed around and hinting at time travel from minor to major ways since the start. The "quantum computer" part is just a mcguffin being used in recent discussions. Before we "saw" the thing they showed us (which looked more like the hadron collider than a computer) all we knew is that there was an important facility Whiterose owned which killed Elliot's dad and Angela mom and wanted to put in the Congo. If it wasn't "building a quantum computer to time travel" it was "using the facility to time travel." The quantum poo poo is irrelevant to the speculation.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:20
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DaveKap posted:Before we "saw" the thing they showed us (which looked more like the hadron collider than a computer) Wait are you referring to the nuclear power plant that they refer to as such in the dialog (when the lights dim and he talks about back up generators)?
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Dec 28, 2017 01:24
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cosmically_cosmic posted:Wait are you referring to the nuclear power plant that they refer to as such in the dialog (when the lights dim and he talks about back up generators)? That and the images they showed while the opening credits ran on the screen are what people are interpreting as a hadron collider. I thought it just looked like a nuclear power plant, myself.
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Dec 28, 2017 02:41
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empty baggie posted:That and the images they showed while the opening credits ran on the screen are what people are interpreting as a hadron collider. I thought it just looked like a nuclear power plant, myself. I really do wonder sometimes if this is actually a really deep in joke that I'm missing.
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Dec 28, 2017 06:06
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None of that fits with angela’s  look they’re still alive moment
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Dec 28, 2017 06:12
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cosmically_cosmic posted:Wait are you referring to the nuclear power plant that they refer to as such in the dialog (when the lights dim and he talks about back up generators)?
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Dec 28, 2017 23:13
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empty baggie posted:That and the images they showed while the opening credits ran on the screen are what people are interpreting as a hadron collider. I thought it just looked like a nuclear power plant, myself. What kind of nuclear plant has a bunch of toroids aligned in a row like that?
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Dec 29, 2017 05:18
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Yeah, people think there's a collider because they show a collider:  Murky screenshot, sorry.
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Dec 29, 2017 09:08
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What else would that have been but a/the LHC?
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Dec 29, 2017 12:23
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Price is the fan base insert, he also knows about the time travel plan and thinks it’s crazy.
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Dec 29, 2017 15:57
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Wasn't there some theory the LHC could open up a wormhole to another universe? (Along with possibly opening up a black hole and destroying earth) It'd be pretty lulzy is White Rose trying to create a Stargate and instead creating a black hole that takes out all life on earth
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Dec 29, 2017 16:58
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How Classical Cryptography Will Survive Quantum Computers
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Dec 29, 2017 18:11
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White Rose is mitochondrial eve and she'll have a time machine because this has all happened before 
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Dec 29, 2017 19:05
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Has it been confirmed/denied that there will be a fourth season?
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Dec 29, 2017 21:31
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Yeah it's been renewed. Writing is in progress right now but for whatever reason (getting winter weather to depict November 2015, cast conflicts, etc) it may not air until 2019.
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Dec 29, 2017 21:34
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Mameluke posted:Yeah it's been renewed. Writing is in progress right now but for whatever reason (getting winter weather to depict November 2015, cast conflicts, etc) it may not air until 2019. Esmail is filming a different show for Amazon early next year, he's not going to have time to film the new season until next fall.
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Dec 30, 2017 00:23
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Quantum computers are hilarious because so many people spend so much time jerking themselves off about how amazing they're going to be that the just quietly ignore the fact that literally every quantum computer that has ever been built either doesn't work or doesn't do anything regular computers can do. "futurists" are the most gullible motherfuckers out there.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:31
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I really like the theory that Whiterose is spending all this time and effort to build a quantum computer / super-science device that doesn't even work; it would feel like a fitting end to the show's story for even the world's ruling elites to be irrational and emotionally driven, impotently lashing out at systems too big for them to change.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:58
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Tailored Sauce posted:White Rose is mitochondrial eve and she'll have a time machine because this has all happened before No way man, the bible says Mitochondrial Eve, not Mitochondrial Steve!
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Dec 30, 2017 03:04
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Guy Mann posted:Quantum computers are hilarious because so many people spend so much time jerking themselves off about how amazing they're going to be that the just quietly ignore the fact that literally every quantum computer that has ever been built either doesn't work or doesn't do anything regular computers can do. "futurists" are the most gullible motherfuckers out there. We never iterate on unwieldy technology. SUCK IT  FUTURISTS
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Dec 30, 2017 07:47
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Guy Mann posted:Quantum computers are hilarious because so many people spend so much time jerking themselves off about how amazing they're going to be that the just quietly ignore the fact that literally every quantum computer that has ever been built either doesn't work or doesn't do anything regular computers can do. "futurists" are the most gullible motherfuckers out there. Working quantum computers have existed for many years now. They are devices that are intended to accelerate certain types of algorithms, they are not general purpose computers and never will be. Also, the cost per qubit has been constantly going down over the years and there is now a commercial machine available. IBM is releasing their own commercial product next year. Also also, the effects of quantum computers on cryptography are generally overstated. We already have encryption algorithms that can't be accelerated by quantum computing. And at the current pace of progress, we are going to have more than enough time to switch our infrastructure over to these new algorithms as more and more powerful QCs hit the market. High performance quantum computing would only wreck havoc if it were to hit a completely unprepared world.
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Dec 30, 2017 16:12
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Tailored Sauce posted:White Rose is mitochondrial eve and she'll have a time machine because this has all happened before Is Angela Starbuck? 
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Dec 30, 2017 20:39
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Guy Mann posted:Quantum computers are hilarious because so many people spend so much time jerking themselves off about how amazing they're going to be that the just quietly ignore the fact that literally every quantum computer that has ever been built either doesn't work or doesn't do anything regular computers can do. "futurists" are the most gullible motherfuckers out there. This is itself hilarious because you really don't understand quantum computers at all. What we have are quantum adiabatic computers. They work. They absolutely work. But they can only solve a subset of problems that fits a certain type, where they can set up a problem space and then just let it resolve itself naturally into the solution state. We do not have full turing-complete quantum computers and we may not for a long time. That said, as you just demonstrated almost nobody knows anything about how quantum mechanics actually works and just treat the word "quantum" as "more powerful, cooler" which it really isn't. Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Also also, the effects of quantum computers on cryptography are generally overstated. We already have encryption algorithms that can't be accelerated by quantum computing. And at the current pace of progress, we are going to have more than enough time to switch our infrastructure over to these new algorithms as more and more powerful QCs hit the market. High performance quantum computing would only wreck havoc if it were to hit a completely unprepared world. Yeah... its basically Y2K all over again. Except more complicated so more people get confused and panic.
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Dec 30, 2017 20:48
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