NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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EVIL Gibson: Mar 23, 2001; Internet of Things is just someone else's computer that people can't help attaching cameras and door locks to!; Switchblade Switcharoo

As someone who actually started my file server to boot from a USB , don't. Even though I understood that I had to move all caching off the USB to some other place (in my case, ram drive), it was such a bitch to handle upgrades since that always worried me the finite amount of write cycles USB memory has. I know ssds have the same issue, but on a vastly different scale and they have SMART to let me know very shortly when it is going to gently caress up. USB SMART (or the equivalent I was looking at) is very limited what it can pull.

# ? Dec 23, 2017 03:22

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 22:39

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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EVIL Gibson posted:

As someone who actually started my file server to boot from a USB , don't. Even though I understood that I had to move all caching off the USB to some other place (in my case, ram drive), it was such a bitch to handle upgrades since that always worried me the finite amount of write cycles USB memory has. I know ssds have the same issue, but on a vastly different scale and they have SMART to let me know very shortly when it is going to gently caress up. USB SMART (or the equivalent I was looking at) is very limited what it can pull.

You can buy USB 3.0 DOMs that should have reasonable amounts of endurance. Both in the USB-A form factor as well as the header form factor.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kingspec-Industrial-Embedded-USB-Disk-on-Module-32GB-9-Pins-EUSB-DOM-Flash/172519508077

If you are really crazy about endurance they do also make SLC versions of this. Again, in both form factors, but you will probably have to live with like 2-8 GB.

Obviously if you have SATA ports to spare this is not necessary, but if you are cramped for ports these can be a good option.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Dec 23, 2017

# ? Dec 23, 2017 04:44

Greatest Living Man: Jul 22, 2005; ask President Obama

Paul MaudDib posted:

You can buy USB 3.0 DOMs that should have reasonable amounts of endurance. Both in the USB-A form factor as well as the header form factor.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kingspec-Industrial-Embedded-USB-Disk-on-Module-32GB-9-Pins-EUSB-DOM-Flash/172519508077

If you are really crazy about endurance they do also make SLC versions of this. Again, in both form factors, but you will probably have to live with like 2-8 GB.

Obviously if you have SATA ports to spare this is not necessary, but if you are cramped for ports these can be a good option.

What are the cheapest tiny SATA boot drives? Does SATA provide any power? I was looking for something like a flash drive that plugs directly into a SATA port. Couldn't find one so I went with mSATA and a controller.

# ? Dec 23, 2017 07:20

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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Greatest Living Man posted:

What are the cheapest tiny SATA boot drives? Does SATA provide any power? I was looking for something like a flash drive that plugs directly into a SATA port. Couldn't find one so I went with mSATA and a controller.

Analogously to a USB DOM, this is called a SATA DOM.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Dec 23, 2017

# ? Dec 23, 2017 07:22

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Greatest Living Man posted:

What are the cheapest tiny SATA boot drives? Does SATA provide any power? I was looking for something like a flash drive that plugs directly into a SATA port. Couldn't find one so I went with mSATA and a controller.

Depends on the motherboard but some (mostly server type boards like from supermicro etc) have DOM sata ports that provide power (they are yellow on supermicro boards iirc).

e: yep, also this site is a decent explanation. https://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/SATADOM.cfm

# ? Dec 23, 2017 07:38

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

Pretty sure that's a Supermicro-only thing, so for anyone not using one of their boards that supports it, a USB or M.2 setup will be your best bet.

# ? Dec 23, 2017 16:47

Greatest Living Man: Jul 22, 2005; ask President Obama

They're pretty expensive so I think I'm gonna stick with my mSATA pci-e route.

# ? Dec 23, 2017 18:02

The Gunslinger: Jul 24, 2004; Do not forget the face of your father.; Fun Shoe

Reading up UnRAID, seems like a much better fit for my NAS stuff at home than ZFS. The boot drive being a USB doesn't seem like a big deal either, it just contains the array config and a license file. Restoring from a corrupt or dead USB disk seems straight forward. I think I'm going to go this route, I can do dual parity drives if need be and grow the array over time using disks of any size. The VM and docker stuff is just an added bonus.

I think I'll wait for the just reviewed Fractal Design Define R6 to land though, looks like a great case. I was going to reuse my old machine but you can't bring existing disks into UnRAID since it has to format them. I'll just repurpose the old machine after I copy the data over, lasted several years so no complaints.

The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 23, 2017

# ? Dec 23, 2017 20:50

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

IOwnCalculus posted:

Pretty sure that's a Supermicro-only thing, so for anyone not using one of their boards that supports it, a USB or M.2 setup will be your best bet.

Yeah I think other manufacturers do have DOM stuff too but they may not be compatible, power wise so YMMV.

Small SATA SSDs are really cheap now anyway.

# ? Dec 23, 2017 22:15

insularis: Sep 21, 2002; Donated $20. Get well, Lowtax.; Fun Shoe

D. Ebdrup posted:

...

UFS, Hammer, and plenty of other filesystems do snapshots - but few of them are atomic and work like ZFS does, which includes not taking up additional diskspace unless you change or delete something in the snapshot (which is, if you ask me, the most impressive part of ZFS snapshots).

Not to mention the automatic export to Windows as read only Previous Versions, which is a godsend for users and self-service. Snapshots (and of course backups, IDS,etc, etc) make me go "meh" to ransomware. I can just kill the infected client and roll back 5 minutes on the dataset. My favorite part of ZFS, honestly.

# ? Dec 24, 2017 03:07

Furism: Feb 21, 2006; Live long and headbang

How good is SHR vs RAID1? In a simple 2 drives setup.

# ? Dec 24, 2017 15:21

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

I don't know that this is the right place for it, so please just tell me to edit my post to remove it if it isn't.

An acquaintance is selling a whole bunch of 3TB Toshiba drives on ebay which have have been running in his home-lab server on a zpool - they've been tested with both long and short smartctl tests, and none have exhibited any ckecksum errors according to ZFS by the time they were decommisioned and wiped (though the pool was encrypted).
So if you're in need for some cheap disks for a cheap home-server to fulfill your digital hoarder habits, have at it.

Furism posted:

How good is SHR vs RAID1? In a simple 2 drives setup.

I believe the only advantage to SHR is that Synology lets you easily mirgrate it to SHR2 if/when you add more drives.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 17:47

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

I'm looking to buy my first NAS and the Wirecutter Guide recommends the Synology DS218+. It's a bit expensive though and seems to be more powerful than what I need. If I just need a NAS to serve files to my network then would the DS218j be a cheaper and just as good choice?

# ? Dec 26, 2017 22:24

Ziploc: Sep 19, 2006; MX-5

As long as it can saturate gigabit, it should be more than good enough for that purpose. Pretty sure most Synology stuff can do that now. So double check some benchmarks.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 16:19

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

Ziploc posted:

As long as it can saturate gigabit, it should be more than good enough for that purpose. Pretty sure most Synology stuff can do that now. So double check some benchmarks.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/synology-diskstation-ds218j

quote:

This is a fast NAS. I fitted the NAS with two 6GB WD Red hard disks and ran three speed tests over a wired Gigabit Ethernet connection, copying data sets to and from a RAM disk on my PC. There were 500MB of sub-100KB documents, 500MB of JPEG photos between 2MB and 5MB in size, and a single 570MB video file.

When copying the video file, the NAS could read data at 111MB/sec and write at 108MB/sec. These results imply it�s quicker than the DS216, which is one of the quickest NAS boxes I�ve seen. The photos were read and written at 65MB/sec, while the small files dropped to 26MB/sec for reads and 22MB/sec for writes. These are excellent results, with the large single-file speed approaching the theoretical limits of Gigabit Ethernet.

Encrypting a folder resulted in an average speed drop of 27% for small documents, 52% for photos and 64% for the single large file, so you should only encrypt the folders you really need to (those containing financial information, for example).

Do those speeds check out? I've been running SSD only since years now so that all looks really slow to me but the review said it's fine.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 16:46

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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Boris Galerkin posted:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/synology-diskstation-ds218j

Do those speeds check out? I've been running SSD only since years now so that all looks really slow to me but the review said it's fine.

That's pretty much what you get from gigabit. 1000 Mbit/sec = 125 Mbyte/sec (you lose a little bit to overhead as well), and IOPS are not phenomenal when working with small files over the network.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 17:01

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

I dunno, a cheap PC can do that with 2 disks. 2 disk NASs seem unrealistic to me.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 17:44

Hughlander: May 11, 2005

Thermopyle posted:

Do any of these esata enclosures work with ZFS? I just have no clue if they can just present the raw drives to the OS or how they work.

Piggybacking this, looking for a recommendation for an 8 drive enclosure and PCIe card for the host to go with it. I have a super micro with built in LSI that I�ll be bringing to 8 drives, and then 8 more I�d want as well but not a lot of guides/recommendations out there.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 17:49

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

If you're fine with doing it yourself, you can get this controller board: https://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-cse-ptjbod-cb1-jbod-power-board-diy-jbod-chassis-made-easy/

Along with a chassis of your choice, and a string of SAS adapters, like this one along with two 8087-to-SATA fanout cables. You can get HBAs with 8088 connectors natively on them, or you could use a similar set of adapters on the server end to convert internal SAS ports.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 18:15

SamDabbers: May 26, 2003

Thermopyle posted:

Do any of these esata enclosures work with ZFS? I just have no clue if they can just present the raw drives to the OS or how they work.

Go with a SAS setup. SATA Port Multipliers Considered Harmful.

Hughlander posted:

Piggybacking this, looking for a recommendation for an 8 drive enclosure and PCIe card for the host to go with it. I have a super micro with built in LSI that I�ll be bringing to 8 drives, and then 8 more I�d want as well but not a lot of guides/recommendations out there.

PCIe Card: LSI 9200-8e
External Cables: 1m SFF-8088 (x2)

and either
DIY Chassis Example ~$270: Enclosure + Drive Bays (x2) + Backplane bracket + Internal cables (x2)
or
Commercial Chassis ~$390: Sans Digital TowerRAID 8-bay JBOD

SamDabbers fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Dec 28, 2017

# ? Dec 28, 2017 01:34

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Huh, so with a SATA port multiplier if one drive goes offline, all drives go offline. Not useful under really any circumstances. Thanks for the link.

# ? Dec 28, 2017 01:47

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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ZFS doesn't have persistent cache, and after you start up you need to reload everything, including metadata. Is there a better way to fix this other than adding a "@reboot root find /mypool -iname wtfbbq" to my /etc/crontab?

# ? Dec 28, 2017 03:32

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Paul MaudDib posted:

ZFS doesn't have persistent cache, and after you start up you need to reload everything, including metadata. Is there a better way to fix this other than adding a "@reboot root find /mypool -iname wtfbbq" to my /etc/crontab?

There's two things that are kind of persistent caches for zfs; there's the zpool.cache file which is (mostly) used to initialize large arrays without having to rescan all drives upon reboot. Then there's a planned persistent L2ARC.
Theoretically, once NVRAM DIMMs gets more wide-spread, a persistent ARC kept in NVRAM can also be added, but I've yet to see any concrete proposals as OS' need to add support first (and I'm not sure the main three consumers, especially Illumos as that's the repository of record, have added support for it yet).

_{You'll have to excuse me, it's 5:25 in the morning, local time, and I'm not sure I'm awake enough to understand what you're asking - just wanted to mention the above.}

# ? Dec 28, 2017 05:26

eightysixed: Sep 23, 2004; I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.

Is this still the go-to setup for a regular NAS?

PC Building/Upgrading/Parts-picking Megathread Reloaded posted:

Silverstone DS380 case
ASRock C2750D4I with Intel Avoton C2750 (octo-core Atom)
8 GB DDR3L-1600 ECC UDIMM (or more if doing more than just storage)
(optional) StarTech USBMBADAPT2 USB header-to-ports adapter (for internal USB stick boot drive)
Up to twelve SATA drives (8 3.5� plus 4 2.5�)
Silverstone ST45SF-G power supply

If so, I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger for an unRAID build.
This will run a VM or 2, so obviously more RAM, but other than that, is that still on point?

Thoughts/suggestions/etc appreciated :cheers:

# ? Dec 29, 2017 20:38

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

I'm having a really hard time remembering the details but isn't that Avoton the one that straight up dies from a bug? It seems old enough, (4 years). I wouldn't buy that thing. It's ancient!

# ? Dec 29, 2017 20:43

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

Yeah, I'd look at something newer. There's a Fractal case that just came out that was discussed in the last few pages, but if you're looking for mostly brand-new hardware I'd go for something with DDR4, probably with ECC support, and one or two LSI controllers. They work so drat well and are so well supported in pretty much every OS that I'd still rather use them over nearly anything else.

# ? Dec 29, 2017 21:00

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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Out of curiosity, what configuration would people recommend for 12x8TB? RAIDZ2, RAIDZ3, dual 6-drive RAIDZ2?

# ? Dec 30, 2017 06:26

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Paul MaudDib posted:

Out of curiosity, what configuration would people recommend for 12x8TB? RAIDZ2, RAIDZ3, dual 6-drive RAIDZ2?

As with everything, it very much depends on your personal tolerance for risk.

That said, RAIDZ2 would seem to be the bare minimum, with RAIDZ3 suggested, and 2x 6-drive RAIDZ2 the best option if you can afford to lose the space. Though I can absolutely understand not wanting to give up fully 1/3 of your storage space to parity--at which point 3x 4-drive RAIDZ1 isn't a horrible idea and knocks it down to 1/4.

# ? Dec 30, 2017 07:02

Rescue Toaster: Mar 13, 2003

Does anyone have a decent notification system setup? Ideally something that would have android, linux, and windows clients and would have simple command line sendmail-replacement style utilities so I could set it up to send notifications from pfsense, FreeNAS, and network ups tools. All these servers/daemons expect you to have a smtp server to send emails to.

Even something that I could run a server locally and open a port and all the phone/pc clients would connect to the server would be nice. The only cloud one I've seen that seems really simple is pushover, but there must be more (and it's not free, not that I would expect anything using somebody else's servers to be free).

The reality is, I don't log into the thing often enough that I'd ever see an actual disk failure probably. So after upgrading to 11.1 I figured I'd finally better set this up properly.

Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Dec 31, 2017

# ? Dec 31, 2017 17:00

ChiralCondensate: Nov 13, 2007; what is that man doing to his colour palette?; Grimey Drawer

Rescue Toaster posted:

Does anyone have a decent notification system setup? Ideally something that would have android, linux, and windows clients and would have simple command line sendmail-replacement style utilities so I could set it up to send notifications from pfsense, FreeNAS, and network ups tools. All these servers/daemons expect you to have a smtp server to send emails to.

Even something that I could run a server locally and open a port and all the phone/pc clients would connect to the server would be nice. The only cloud one I've seen that seems really simple is pushover, but there must be more (and it's not free, not that I would expect anything using somebody else's servers to be free).

The reality is, I don't log into the thing often enough that I'd ever see an actual disk failure probably. So after upgrading to 11.1 I figured I'd finally better set this up properly.

msmtp was fairly easy to setup with a throwaway yahoo account to send all my cron emails from. The only tricks as far as I remember were to put
MAILFROM=myaccount@yahoo.com CONTENT_TYPE="text/html; charset=us-ascii"
at the top of my crontab and to login with the yahoo web client every couple of weeks. But I'm not sure if it will relay stuff from other clients.

# ? Dec 31, 2017 17:15

Tamba: Apr 5, 2010

Rescue Toaster posted:

Does anyone have a decent notification system setup? Ideally something that would have android, linux, and windows clients and would have simple command line sendmail-replacement style utilities so I could set it up to send notifications from pfsense, FreeNAS, and network ups tools. All these servers/daemons expect you to have a smtp server to send emails to.

Even something that I could run a server locally and open a port and all the phone/pc clients would connect to the server would be nice. The only cloud one I've seen that seems really simple is pushover, but there must be more (and it's not free, not that I would expect anything using somebody else's servers to be free).

The reality is, I don't log into the thing often enough that I'd ever see an actual disk failure probably. So after upgrading to 11.1 I figured I'd finally better set this up properly.

How about using an existing messaging app?
Telegram has a bot API that you could use to create a bot to message you whenever anything happens.
Should be relatively simple to set up as long as you're only sending messages, and don't want the bot to react to replies.

code:

curl -i -X GET https://api.telegram.org/bot<apikey>/sendMessage?chat_id=<chatId>&text=<someText>

Tamba fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Dec 31, 2017

# ? Dec 31, 2017 17:27

phosdex: Dec 16, 2005

I have postfix running in a VM to relay mail from internal servers through a Gmail account. It was pretty easy to setup.

# ? Dec 31, 2017 18:51

Matt Zerella: Oct 7, 2002; Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

Pushbullet works fine for me.

# ? Dec 31, 2017 20:01

admiraldennis: Jul 22, 2003; I am the stone that builder refused
I am the visual
The inspiration
That made lady sing the blues

I'm all-of-a-sudden having intermittent connectivity issues between my FreeNAS box and my PC (setup: 40GbE, Mellanox ConnectX-3 on either end, 2x Finisar QSFP+ [FTL414QB2N-E5], 10M 12-core OM3).

Things were working fine for a few weeks, now suddenly I'm having problems. It looks like this on a ping:

code:

Pinging 10.1.1.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=64
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=178ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=64
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.1.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
(then it's fine for a while, repeat)

Anyone ever run into something similar? Nothing of note has changed with my setup, and this makes things pretty much unusable with games freezing up (my games are on my NAS) and explorer hanging. Everything is peachy on 1GbE (standard LAN) so the problem seems isolated to something with the fiber setup.

edit: rebooting FreeNAS seemed to do the trick, at least for now? I had restarted the Windows machine a bunch of times, assuming that was the culprit. I don't really want to be restarting the NAS box on a regular basis as it has a number of clients

. Uptime was only 16 days on the box; I checked top and the CPU wasn't pegged or anything when the dropouts were occurring, all looked good.

admiraldennis fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Jan 3, 2018

# ? Jan 3, 2018 01:10

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Any time this happens it's been the switch but I am talking utterly generically with no 1st hand-knowledge of that high end poo poo.

# ? Jan 3, 2018 01:37

admiraldennis: Jul 22, 2003; I am the stone that builder refused
I am the visual
The inspiration
That made lady sing the blues

redeyes posted:

Any time this happens it's been the switch but I am talking utterly generically with no 1st hand-knowledge of that high end poo poo.

No switch here, just a direct line.

And I'm beginning to suspect FreeBSD's Mellanox drivers? Though I'm hoping not, rebooting the FreeNAS box did seem to fix it in the immediate term (unplugging/replugging the QSFPs, reseating the cables, rebooting the Windows machine - all did not fix)... next time maybe I will try just reloading the driver.

# ? Jan 3, 2018 01:44

necrobobsledder: Mar 21, 2005; Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll; Nap Ghost

You already rebooted the box but I�d have been interested in TX error rates and packet fragmentation counts. Also would be curious about the sysctl flags for your system.

# ? Jan 3, 2018 16:58

Incessant Excess: Aug 15, 2005; Cause of glitch:
Pretentiousness

I'm trying to set up Sabnzbd as a docker container on my new Synology DS918+ and I've run into the first of what I'm sure will be many problems. The completed downloads from Sabnzbd are not where I assumed they would be/where I'd like them to be.

This is what my configuration looks like:

Red line is where the downloads are, blue line is where they should be.

Taken from this here tutorial:
https://drfrankenstein.co.uk/2016/03/26/setting-up-sabnzbd-in-docker-on-a-synology-nas/

I assume that I either messed up the volume mapping of the docker container or that I'm misunderstanding how Docker works and the downloads are where they should be.

Anyone have an idea of whats wrong with my setup?

EDIT: Here is where I'd like to get to in terms of file structure:

DS918+
docker <- not visible to other devices in my network
-sabnzbd
-sonarr
-radarr
-nzbhydra
Downloads <- Usenet downloads go in here
-Movies
-TV
-etc.
Backups
Other

Incessant Excess fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 3, 2018

# ? Jan 3, 2018 17:30

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

Check your sabnzbd configuration for �download path� or something like that. What does it say?

# ? Jan 3, 2018 17:45

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 22:39

Incessant Excess: Aug 15, 2005; Cause of glitch:
Pretentiousness

Still using the default values there (nevermind the "watched" folder, that's also broken right now).

Clicking browse I can't get to anything that's outside the docker folder:

This is as top level as I can get.

# ? Jan 3, 2018 17:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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