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Waiting until tech 7 is fine, I'll probably be too poor before then to really worry about colonising. I'm planning on becoming basically The Netherlands, only a bit further East; the smart play would seem to be securing Iceland, since I am already looking to beat up Denmark ASAP.
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Jan 4, 2018 19:38
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Gort posted:What idea groups do people recommend for Muscovy -> Russia? About a page behind, but it depends on the political situation in Lithuania. If Poland is weak, or especially if they decline the union with Lithuania, then take Admin first, and get to work devouring all the Orthodox land in Lithuania. Otherwise Religious first. Defensive second. Third mostly depends on what you have points to spend, you're usually staring at something of a tech crunch. I honestly kinda like Trade as a diplomatic pick, just to steer as much cash as possible into the cash fountain that is Kazan.
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Jan 4, 2018 19:50
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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RabidWeasel posted:Waiting until tech 7 is fine, I'll probably be too poor before then to really worry about colonising. I'm planning on becoming basically The Netherlands, only a bit further East; the smart play would seem to be securing Iceland, since I am already looking to beat up Denmark ASAP. Iceland is easy to snag from Denmark, it has low development and no forts so you can demand it without actually sailing over there.
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Jan 4, 2018 22:08
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Isn't there also the possibility to beat up some Irish minors?
Poil fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 22:10
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Poil posted:Isn't there's also Irish minors to beat up? what, are their fathers not around? e: oh right, the bar
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Jan 4, 2018 22:37
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As Date, just took Kyoto from Ashikaga and am now the Shogun. I get the event where you can release Chokosabe - I did. Chokosabe is now a Daymio "under Date and Ashikaga". A few years later, Ashikaga annexes them. What the hell? Has anyone had this happen before? Bug or feature?
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Jan 5, 2018 09:35
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So it's like 1540 and I formed Al Andalus! And it's like nobody has gotten into the colonisation game. Is it too late? I think me loving up Castille and Portugal while France and Ireland has hosed England made countries not colonize?
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Jan 5, 2018 11:53
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Brittany, France, Norway and Scotland usually colonize the new world as well. But they don't take it as their first idea group.
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Jan 5, 2018 12:04
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 Trying for the Karaman -> Rum achievement and I've got a way better start than I could imagine. Ottomans picked their first war against Venice/Hungary and friends and got themselves 100 percented and forced to release basically every core they controlled, including my 4. So I allied Byzantium and waited for the Mamluks to declare on the Ottomans and dogpiled them. Of course the Mamluks are still worthless and peaced out after like a year for 1 province. Byzantium and I destroyed the Ottoman navy so I trapped all their troops on the European side, let them force Byzantium out so I didn't have to give them any land and then took everything I could without causing a coalition of all the other Muslims around me. Currently the Ottomans are -33% in a war against Wallachia and Crete 
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Jan 5, 2018 14:38
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Firebatgyro posted:Of course the Mamluks are still worthless and peaced out after like a year for 1 province. Might actually be fore the best really: Ottomans didn't get hit with a shitload of revanchism to give them a second wind.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:12
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Firebatgyro posted:
These sorts of things never make me not happy. Good work! Been meaning to try a run at that achievement myself.
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Jan 5, 2018 16:27
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How does revanchism work really? Also gently caress yea my Andalusia game is fun! But I'm really curious how I'll manage once France gets involved. As is my only friend is Tunis. Castillo, Aragon and marocco are my rivals. No friends anywhere really. Constantly getting more military ideas is my really good solution. Since the world is hosed up im thinking of grabbing expansionist or explorer as fourth idea and getting into that game. (I have basically never done any colonisation ever in any game)
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Jan 5, 2018 16:31
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Man, I hate betraying allied call to arms but what the heck else can I do when they get into wars when I'm in no shape to fight at all and/or it would equal committing suicide by carpet siege from the 5-1 numbers? Also this is a first for me.  That's what happens when you get curb stomped into the mud right at the start you broken pricks!
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Jan 5, 2018 16:44
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Affi posted:Also gently caress yea my Andalusia game is fun! But I'm really curious how I'll manage once France gets involved. As is my only friend is Tunis. Castillo, Aragon and marocco are my rivals. Before worrying about France finish eating up those rivals, especially the Iberians. Once you control Iberia and colonize a bit you're in a great position.. iirc you said that no one is colonizing right? Then go on and do it yourself, that is awesome, grab the best land in the new world (Caribbean, Mexico, central and south America in rough order of awesomeness - they all feed more or less directly into Sevilla, Mexico peru and Brazil also have tons of gold usually) and the Ivory coast prioritizing centers of trade, build up your trade base and then you'll have enough money to kill anyone, France included. Try to be friends with Ottomans if they're doing ok, they are usually starved for friends and are pretty happy to ally another big-ish Muslim nation. TorakFade fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 16:54
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Firebatgyro posted:
I tried this start 20+ times over the last month and the OE never once actually lost a war, they were getting completely crushed by Albania/Hungary/Venice one time but somehow white peaced while having all of Europe occupied
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Jan 5, 2018 17:38
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Firebatgyro posted:
Don't take your eyes off the bastards. I reduced them to an OPM in my Polish game, took my eyes off the area for twenty years and suddenly they control all of Anatolia and the Levant again. You have to treat the Ottomans like Rome treated Carthage burn them to the loving ground and salt the soil, otherwise they're gonna be back to cause problems.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:57
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Gaius Marius posted:Don't take your eyes off the bastards. I reduced them to an OPM in my Polish game, took my eyes off the area for twenty years and suddenly they control all of Anatolia and the Levant again. You have to treat the Ottomans like Rome treated Carthage burn them to the loving ground and salt the soil, otherwise they're gonna be back to cause problems.  Oh they've been burned to the ground. The vultures kept nibbling more pieces off so it only took a 100% and a 10% war to finish them. Byzantium got mostly eaten by Venice so 1 war with them for Constantinople, 1 war with QQ for a Ezururum or whatever that province is and we're there. Going to continue this one and go for Pasha in Paris Edit: They gave Rum a very nice color Firebatgyro fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 18:03
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thank you for protecting albania 
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Jan 5, 2018 18:29
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Affi posted:How does revanchism work really? The bonuses scale with how much you demand from a country in a peace treaty. If you take 100% war score worth of demands from them, they get 100% revanchism. If you take 10% war score, they get 10% revanchism. They also lose war exhaustion proportional to how much you demand from them. A good way to utterly cripple a big multi-cultural empire, like Ming, is to beat them up, get them to 100% war score and 20 war exhaustion, and then white peace.
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Jan 5, 2018 18:32
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You were given such a lovely gift by the mapgame gods. I, too, had tried a bunch of Karaman starts this week and finally said gently caress it and played AQ instead. Even if you can get some momentum going, you're totally screwed by your starting monarch and heir's garbage tier stats (a total of two monarch points between them) and end up two MIL tech levels behind.
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Jan 5, 2018 18:52
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Fister Roboto posted:The bonuses scale with how much you demand from a country in a peace treaty. If you take 100% war score worth of demands from them, they get 100% revanchism. If you take 10% war score, they get 10% revanchism. They also lose war exhaustion proportional to how much you demand from them. A good way to utterly cripple a big multi-cultural empire, like Ming, is to beat them up, get them to 100% war score and 20 war exhaustion, and then white peace. I've never paid attention to those bonuses. How long do they last?
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Jan 5, 2018 19:59
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Up to 20 years at 100% war score. (https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Warfare#Revanchism)
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Jan 6, 2018 00:35
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Fister Roboto posted:Up to 20 years at 100% war score. Going to loving need that revanchism on account of France invading me ontop of me loving up with keeping up on mil tech.
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Jan 6, 2018 02:11
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boy i feel like this castilian civil war should have ended by now 
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Jan 6, 2018 03:01
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After a lot of frustrating restarts, I finally got the Levant Turnabout. The Mamluk government is insanely good. +2 monarch admin skill (I assume it works the same way as leader pips, so they never get wasted), no stab hits on monarch death, the choice of +15 army tradition with new monarchs (always take this), and +4 accepted cultures. Hell yeah. By the end I was drowning in 3* generals. Mamluks are the new Ottomans. p.s. check out England
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Jan 6, 2018 05:15
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Prav posted:for eu5 i hope that they model the new world as full of sophisticated people in advanced societies and then a spaniard sneezes and everything goes to hell  Also some kind of super-devastation that completely depopulates a province (turning it into an empty province) if it goes on long enough, so you can have a completely full North America map that ends up half-empty by the time the colonizers pick up steam.
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Jan 6, 2018 06:29
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Prav posted:for eu5 i hope that they model the new world as full of sophisticated people in advanced societies and then a spaniard sneezes and everything goes to hell This would honestly be closer to what really happened so, yeah, I'm down for this  Tenochtitlan was likely a metropolis on par with or exceeding the population of most European urban centers of the time.
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Jan 6, 2018 06:38
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You mean like the European diseases events in EU4? As far as I remember from school the diseases went through the population really really quickly, like diseases usually do when there is no resistance. It devastated the population but it very quickly left only the resistant population left. The diseases didn't literally depopulate the Mesoamericas down to zero population.. Groogy fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 11:53
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From what I remember there are no clean numbers for this and only theories based retellings from colonists and conquistadores, but the estimates for both continents are 50-95% of the population dying to disease. As in some papers claim the Americas had a higher population than Europe at the time. There's excavations for cities with huge field and irrigation areas that could have supported large populations but by the time colonists arrived in those areas there was nothing left there. There's of course other factors that are being mentioned such as climate change and local wars, which destroyed the infrastructure needed to maintain large population centers (food and water supply).
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Jan 6, 2018 12:11
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I didn't say not a lot of people died, in fact I said it devastated them. But it was through the population in about 2-3 years, which I was saying because that's about the timeline of our events as well. Diseases work horrifying efficiently and this is more caused by a "bug" than actual what a disease want to do. Essentially it snuffs itself out. Cortez had started fighting with the Aztec Empire before the population started to die off though just as an FYI. He had already visited Tenochtitlan and Montezuma before that.The siege of Tenochtitlan doesn't come until like.... 3 years later I think since first contact? I'm not super good with exact dates. Groogy fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 12:15
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there were several waves of infection, both new diseases and later outbreaks of earlier ones, and all of them were horrifyingly deadly. entire areas did get depopulated as social systems collapsed and physical infrastructure failed from lack of use and maintenance.
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Jan 6, 2018 13:05
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Prav posted:there were several waves of infection, both new diseases and later outbreaks of earlier ones, and all of them were horrifyingly deadly. entire areas did get depopulated as social systems collapsed and physical infrastructure failed from lack of use and maintenance. Yeah this. It’s very hard to derive population numbers for pre-Columbian America with any sort of precision, but it’s entirely clear that the population of say, Mexico fell from millions, maybe tens of millions, to barely more than a million. A lot of this did not happen right away due to guys like Columbus/Cortez/etc either, it came over the course of the 16th century as more and more possibly diseased Euros showed up.
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Jan 6, 2018 13:39
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 I think I'm off to a good start here. Got Muscovy on my side and I'm about to poke into Transoxiana to get some Khiva cores for vassal feeding. The Ottos hate my guts, they haven't changed ruler once yet and he's militaristic. Hopefully he croaks soon. Ideas so far are defensive and religious. Do anyone know if I can get the gothic invasion achievement if I flip my primary culture to one of the tartars, or do I need to remain gothic?
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Jan 6, 2018 13:53
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Creed Reunion Tour posted:
Must be Gothic for achievement to fire. e: Mind you, I don’t think it says that you must ALWAYS have been Gothic. You could maybe do some next level poo poo where you switch to Tatar now and then regothicize once you’ve secured your position. skasion fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 14:19
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Is there a mod or something that makes it so some diplomatic actions don't need a diplomat or let you use a diplomat already in the country? Like I'm improving relations somewhere and I wanna offer a royal marriage. Right now I have to: recall diplomat wait for cooldown offer royal marriage wait for cooldown send him back to continue improving relations It's retarded and frustrating. If the diplomat is already there hanging out making friends then let him perform some actions.
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Jan 6, 2018 15:16
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So. I'm just so happy loving Austria made Castille revoke their alliance with France. The absolute second I saw that I pressed attack. I needed that so badly!
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Jan 6, 2018 15:46
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fuf posted:Is there a mod or something that makes it so some diplomatic actions don't need a diplomat or let you use a diplomat already in the country? Oh this would be so great. Plus makes sense, the diplomat is there. Tangentially related, I would like to try a gimmick game of loving people over with sabotage, supporting rebels and so on. Is there any country that has particular bonuses to it or is in a good position to engage in espionage?
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Jan 6, 2018 16:46
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Consistent among accounts of Europeans who saw Tenochtitlan before it fell is the assertion that there were few cities in Europe that would have been its equal in beauty or size. Additionally, while it is hard to get solid numbers, we do still have a lot of information such as tribute records. There were something around five hundred cities under the control of the Aztec empire when Cortes began his expedition. But yeah, population estimates in general have been in contention forever and probably always will be. One reliable estimate I found gives over 1 million in the Valley of Mexico (Tenochtitlan and the cities surrounding it) and an addition 2-3 million in the rest of the empire, but I'm sure others can find equally compelling estimates.
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Jan 7, 2018 00:46
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skasion posted:Must be Gothic for achievement to fire. Well poo poo. I flipped culture before checking up in here. Looks like I got some cultural enrichement to do.
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Jan 7, 2018 02:28
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you could just get all the provinces and then destate and flip culture back as your last action
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Jan 7, 2018 04:32
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