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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:The Last Boy Scout and True Romance are my favorite Tony Scott movies, although they have more to do with Shane Black, Tarantino, and the excellent casts in both. Top Gun had an enormous amount of influence on 80s action movies for a couple of years until Die Hard came out; you really should see it if only as a historical touchstone.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:04
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:The Last Boy Scout and True Romance are my favorite Tony Scott movies, although they have more to do with Shane Black, Tarantino, and the excellent casts in both. I'm not sure what my favourite of his would be. I like True Romance a lot, though as you say it's more because of the Tarantino screenplay, and I really like The Last Boy Scout even though it's not perfect (I imagine there's a world out there where it was Lethal Weapon 3 and Die Hard With a Vengeance was Lethal Weapon 5  ) and I remember enjoying Crimson Tide. I've never bothered to watch the remake of The Taking of Pelham One Two Three because the original one with Walter Matthau and Robert Shaw is basically perfect. Don't think I've even seen Beverly Hills Cop II, come to think of it (don't think I've seen any of the Beverly Hills Cop movies).What's the best John McTiernan movie outside Predator and Die Hard? I feel like it's got to be The Hunt for Red October but I think it's a pity Harrison Ford isn't in it (not because I dislike Alec Baldwin or anything). I like Patriot Games a lot more than Clear and Present Danger. Were any of the other Jack Ryan movies outside that original trilogy any good?
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Jan 5, 2018 00:28
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Top Gun had an enormous amount of influence on 80s action movies for a couple of years until Die Hard came out; you really should see it if only as a historical touchstone. What are the big "touchstone" action movies? There's the Sean Connery James Bond movies. 48 Hrs. must be one. Die Hard, obviously. The Matrix. Possibly The Bourne Identity?
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Jan 5, 2018 00:31
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Man on Fire
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Jan 5, 2018 00:35
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Wheat Loaf posted:What are the big "touchstone" action movies? Hard Boiled
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Jan 5, 2018 00:41
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Wheat Loaf posted:What are the big "touchstone" action movies? Enter The Dragon
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Jan 5, 2018 00:46
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Death Race 2000
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Jan 5, 2018 00:48
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Enter the Dragon, Lethal Weapon, a bunch of Arnold movies, then more recently I'd throw Bad Boys and Rush Hour in that category, and then Fury Road, The Raid and it's sequel, and John Wick. Bad Boys and Rush Hour aren't necessarily great but this is more about what the public was into and those movies were really popular at the time. Also, I'm not a huge fan but Ong Bak and The Protector were a pretty big deal. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 00:49
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Basebf555 posted:Enter the Dragon, Lethal Weapon, a bunch of Arnold movies, then more recently I'd throw Bad Boys and Rush Hour in that category, and then Fury Road, The Raid and it's sequel, and John Wick. I'm not 100% on Lethal Weapon. I think it's probably the best buddy cop action comedy movie (well, maybe Lethal Weapon 2 is better) but wouldn't stuff like 48 hrs. and even the first two Beverly Hills Cops be more "important" on those terms?
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Jan 5, 2018 00:56
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Wheat Loaf posted:I'm not 100% on Lethal Weapon. I think it's probably the best buddy cop action comedy movie (well, maybe Lethal Weapon 2 is better) but wouldn't stuff like 48 hrs. and even the first two Beverly Hills Cops be more "important" on those terms? I'm going more on the track of a "touchstone" which to me means you have to take into account how popular the movies were, and the Lethal Weapons were huge hits. As were 48 hours and Beverly Hills Cop, but you'd already mentioned 48 hours so I was just trying to add to your list. So if anything I'm probably overestimating the popularity of Ong Bak, The Raid, and even John Wick. But the whole landscape is different now with so many huge franchise blockbusters coming out, it's really hard to get to Lethal Weapon level popularity with a straight-up buddy cop movie.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:58
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Yeah when I said "touchstone" I meant that it made a big splash in cultural consciousness and also clearly influenced later movies. Something like Dirty Harry would be a good candidate. Something like The Killer, which had an enormous influence on action movies but virtually no one in the West knew about, wouldn't. (tho you could say The Killer was a touchstone to HK audiences)
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Jan 5, 2018 01:02
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Sure, fair enough. Maybe it didn't do it first, but Lethal Weapon did it best so it's the one people remember.
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Jan 5, 2018 01:09
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Lethal Weapon 2 and 3 were both the highest grossing movie for adults in the years they came out. They both lost out only to like Disney movies, Indiana Jones, and Batman(both times). You really don't see that anymore outside of I guess The Fast and the Furious franchise.
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Jan 5, 2018 01:11
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Basebf555 posted:Boondock Saints has the badass hitman falling through the ceiling and bumbling through the whole thing...but all their bullets seem to find their mark and they kill their target fairly easily. Then all of the real goofy poo poo is cordoned off over here with this idiot character, so as not to taint the pure badass exuding from Reedus and Flannery at all times. To be fair, this was definitely a deliberate stylistic choice to imply the brothers had divine intervention on their side, similar to Blues Brothers. I think it's a cool concept to have a realistic setting but then add a personification of luck or divine will that goes well beyond what could ever happen in real life, it's just a shame that it happened to be attached to the rest of that movie.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:11
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Yes, Top Gun is a martial arts movie. It takes place in a tournament (who willl be Top Gun?), after an accident caused by his own hubris the protagonist doubts his ability to fight (fly) again, etc. Now I want to see a martial arts tournament fight scene done like a Top Gun dogfight where the two combatants spend most of the time running around the arena trying to find each other, looking over their shoulders frantically, trying to get position behind the other. And then since F-14s were two-seaters I guess each fighter would also have another one riding piggyback.
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Jan 5, 2018 04:27
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Wheat Loaf posted:I've never bothered to watch the remake of The Taking of Pelham One Two Three because the original one with Walter Matthau and Robert Shaw is basically perfect. Don't think I've even seen Beverly Hills Cop II, come to think of it (don't think I've seen any of the Beverly Hills Cop movies). I've never seen the Taking of Pelham One Two Three remake either, because the original IS perfect. I even remember a Southern Comfort commercial using the iconic jazz theme a few years ago. Also, Beverly Hills Cop 1 and 2 are fan-loving-tastic. 3 makes me sad, but 2 is very entertaining, and 1 is probably one of my all-time favorite movies, with a moment that makes me smile and laugh uncontrollably just thinking about it. I'm grinning from ear to ear right now, in fact. See 1, and if you like it, see 2. Now that they've added the Lethal Weapon movies to Netflix, I rewatched 1 and 2 for the first time in almost 20 years (basically, since 4 came out). 1 wasn't nearly as good as I remembered, but I recall feeling very mature and even sophisticated seeing it as a kid. I found 2 a lot more entertaining, and thought it had aged a lot better. Having more comic relief and better villains helped 2 immensely.
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Jan 5, 2018 06:27
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Kurosawa and the western remakes were big action touchstones. Tons of ww2 movies and Stagecoach too
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Jan 5, 2018 07:21
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gently caress, the end of the Villainess is super disappointing, like literally all their good ideas got used in the first half, and the second half is unambitious action scenes with a spastic camera.
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Jan 5, 2018 08:37
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I liked The Villainess a lot but thought the plot is a bit too byzantine for its own good.
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Jan 5, 2018 10:22
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Raiders of the Lost Ark is a touchstone of action cinema, and I’m disappointed I didn’t think of it earlier.Venuz Patrol posted:To be fair, this was definitely a deliberate stylistic choice to imply the brothers had divine intervention on their side, similar to Blues Brothers. I think it's a cool concept to have a realistic setting but then add a personification of luck or divine will that goes well beyond what could ever happen in real life, it's just a shame that it happened to be attached to the rest of that movie. The idea they had god on their side makes the vox pop bit over the credits that much more obnoxious.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:33
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Yea I guess like any other genre a discussion like this is going to really depend on the definition you're working with. Raiders of the Lost Ark didn't come immediately to my mind because I think of it more as an adventure film, but it's action scenes are all time great and I can't really argue with someone who wants to label it as action. Same with westerns, or samurai films. I tend to lump them all together in their own category, but some are more action oriented than others.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:44
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Wheat Loaf posted:Possibly The Bourne Identity? Once you go back far enough, you gotta start counting Westerns and "adventure" films too. I'm not sure when "action" emerged as a genre, but Bullitt is one of the first I can think of.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:50
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Basebf555 posted:Yea I guess like any other genre a discussion like this is going to really depend on the definition you're working with. Raiders of the Lost Ark didn't come immediately to my mind because I think of it more as an adventure film, but it's action scenes are all time great and I can't really argue with someone who wants to label it as action. Same with westerns, or samurai films. I tend to lump them all together in their own category, but some are more action oriented than others.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:59
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Payndz posted:If I was going to pick one thing as 'the greatest action scene of all time', it would be the Raiders truck chase. It's eight minutes of a filmmaker (and the second unit, and stuntmen, and editor, and composer, and and and...) at the absolute top of their game. It's definitely up there, no doubt about it. Kurosawa is often credited with innovating the way action scenes are shot, and Spielberg and George Lucas were known to be two of his most devoted followers. Spielberg once called Kurosawa the Shakespeare of our time. So the scene in Raiders definitely has lots of Kurosawa DNA in it.
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Jan 5, 2018 16:13
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You know what, gently caress, we didn’t mention either Mad Max or Road Warrior as action touchstones, almost every cinematic car chase since has tried to copy those movies.
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Jan 5, 2018 16:17
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X-Ray Pecs posted:You know what, gently caress, we didn’t mention either Mad Max or Road Warrior as action touchstones, almost every cinematic car chase since has tried to copy those movies. Funny because I mentioned Fury Road, I guess I just wasn't a Mad Max guy so they didn't come to mind. But yes they really were extremely influential.
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Jan 5, 2018 16:18
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Basebf555 posted:Funny because I mentioned Fury Road, I guess I just wasn't a Mad Max guy so they didn't come to mind. But yes they really were extremely influential. Fury Road isn’t quite a touchstone yet, but Dunkirk showed that directors could be taking lesson from Fury Road for years to come. It has strong potential to be the action movie of a whole generation.
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Jan 5, 2018 16:22
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Halloween Jack posted:Once you go back far enough, you gotta start counting Westerns and "adventure" films too. I'm not sure when "action" emerged as a genre, but Bullitt is one of the first I can think of. I'm reminded of something I'm not keen on: dvds that make old movies look like direct-to-video movies from 2007. I will give you some examples:       Blah. The dvd cover for Shaft is really dull when you remember how cool the poster looked: 
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Jan 5, 2018 17:08
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Regarding that Shaft cover, it's from a DVD/VHS re-issue of the entire series from when the new movie came out in 2000. This was a horrible time for movie covers because of that last mass produced wave of VHS tapes and early super mass produced wave of DVDs, many of them went that "just put a picture of the star on the cover" despite them having totally rad already existing posters or artwork. I'd say Lethal Weapon is "more" of a touchstone than 48 Hours too even if 48 Hours is more important in some ways. I remember when WPIX 11* would show 48 Hours in the early 90s it would even have this "BEFORE Gibson and Glover, there was....*TV spot for 48 Hours*" I would definitely put both on any action movie touchstone list. If I made a list of touchstone action movies I don't think it'd deviate much from what people have mentioned. I was going to say it's insane that no one's brought up the first three Mad Max movies or Raiders but everyone's corrected that now.  Top Gun is absolutely an action movie and counts too even if it's not as violent as what we'd normally associate with the genre.I would say The Killer squeezes by on influence alone even if it wasn't popular in the western hemisphere. That's a movie I show people for the first time and they think it was made in like 1993. If we're just talking in the US I'd consider certain ninja movies, specifically Enter the Ninja, Revenge of the Ninja, and American Ninja II: The Confrontation because again even if they're schlock and not fondly remembered today, I mean, NINJA. American Ninja II especially would be shown on TV almost as much as The Beastmaster. A lot of the stereotypical ninja stuff in US movies involving ninja came from those three flicks. Speaking of influential or not, anyone who's seen Mad Max knows at the very end we see Max calmly walk towards the camera as an explosion happens in the background. I could have sworn we mentioned it in this thread but couldn't find it, what movie did that before Mad Max? I think there was only one specific one we could pick out. *The greatest TV station that ever existed, if you liked movies and lived in NYC in the 80s and 90s you watched this station basically all day every day until it became WB Network and now the original is "PIX 11." Saturday morning cartoons? Hell no this station would just show a block of like, Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior, The Godfather, and Flash Gordon. Or Return of the Living Dead, Superman II, and Manhunter. Like the sole qualification of the film programming was "does this movie own?" and I think it had a huge influence on me as a kid and I definitely wouldn't be as into movies as I am now without it. My family didn't have cable until many many years later so this ruled. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 17:12
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Neo Rasa posted:Regarding that Shaft cover, it's from a DVD/VHS re-issue of the entire series from when the new movie came out in 2000. This was a horrible time for movie covers because of that last mass produced wave of VHS tapes and early super mass produced wave of DVDs, many of them went that "just put a picture of the star on the cover" despite them having totally rad already existing posters or artwork. What's especially annoying is that I have Shaft on dvd in a proper dvd box, but I have Shaft's Big Score and Shaft In Africa... in snapcases.  quote:Speaking of influential or not, anyone who's seen Mad Max knows at the very end we see Max calmly walk towards the camera as an explosion happens in the background. I could have sworn we mentioned it in this thread but couldn't find it, what movie did that before Mad Max? I think there was only one specific one we could pick out. The earliest example I can find via a cursory Google search is a 1976 spaghetti western called Get Mean. The scene in question.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:20
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Wheat Loaf posted:I'm reminded of something I'm not keen on: dvds that make old movies look like direct-to-video movies from 2007. I will give you some examples:
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Jan 5, 2018 17:32
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I had written a big post earlier about touchstones that listed them by category and year like Vehicle Chase: Bulitt French Connection Mad Max The Road Warrior but around the 30th movie I stopped because it was getting ridiculous and also I didn't want to miss stuff. If you guys are interested you should pick a genre and list all the super important touchstones (remember: cultural awareness of the film is important)
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Jan 5, 2018 17:35
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Wheat Loaf posted:I'm reminded of something I'm not keen on: dvds that make old movies look like direct-to-video movies from 2007. I will give you some examples: I think the reasoning is studios fear that with original poster artwork is that consumers will see it as "Old" and not want to buy it
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Jan 5, 2018 17:36
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No discussion of awful re-release DVD/Blu-Ray cover’s is complete without the champ
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Jan 5, 2018 19:17
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Jesus Christ, I'm glad I got it on DVD and have no plans to upgrade. To be fair, the DVD cover, while better, implies that it's a zombie movie.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:56
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I remember once my friend and I, looking for a bad film to rent, picked up one with a painted cover. It was obvious that the artist had just copied Arnold from a Conan film (right down to him holding the Atlantean sword), and when we popped it in, it turned out to be some 60s Roman legionnaire film.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:02
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Halloween Jack posted:Jesus Christ, I'm glad I got it on DVD and have no plans to upgrade. I’m imagining a parent buying it for their kid, and the kid realizing that even though their parents got the wrong movie, they still love it when they slit that person’s throat, catch the blood in a beer mug, then drink the blood.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:04
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My parents were oddly prudish about certain things, and they forbade me from renting a lot of horror movies with really good box art. This was a blessing in disguise; they were almost universally complete poo poo. I mean, I missed Sleepaway Camp and some so-bad-it's-good stuff, but I also missed Dracula vs. Frankenstein. I swear, the one at my local video store was a plastic box with an embossed cover. It ruled. This is what the film looks like: 
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Jan 5, 2018 20:17
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X-Ray Pecs posted:I’m imagining a parent buying it for their kid, and the kid realizing that even though their parents got the wrong movie, they still love it when they slit that person’s throat, catch the blood in a beer mug, then drink the blood. You beat me to this. I was going to post how excited I was when this cover came out because you'd have people picking it up thinking it's similar to Twilight and instead they would get to see one of the raddest vampire movies ever made.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:37
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Everyone who hasn't seen it should watch Near Dark. It's probably Kathryn Bigelow's best movie, which is saying something.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:55
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