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NTRabbit posted:Wahlberg and Williams are represented by the same agency Throwing in a post by therattle from GenChat: therattle posted:It's not that simple.
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Jan 10, 2018 13:30
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The Michael Douglas thing feels very Old Hollywood to me, where it was easier to get out in front of a story in the trades and discredit a victim before they can even fully come forward. It’s a relic from an era that has had the legs cut out from under it this past year, which I think Douglas is going to find out all too soon. If the allegations are true, that shovel he’s been using to bury the story may just bury himself in the process.
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Jan 10, 2018 14:50
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Fart City posted:The Michael Douglas thing feels very Old Hollywood to me, where it was easier to get out in front of a story in the trades and discredit a victim before they can even fully come forward. It’s a relic from an era that has had the legs cut out from under it this past year, which I think Douglas is going to find out all too soon. If the allegations are true, that shovel he’s been using to bury the story may just bury himself in the process. His father was about as Old Hollywood as you can get in terms of being a unrepentant womanizer, and he was still doing it long after a stroke had made it more sad than anything else.
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Jan 10, 2018 15:05
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Zogo posted:French star Deneuve defends men's 'right' to chat up women Le Monde put up that statement signed by 100 women from across entertainment, legal, and academic circles in France, and the translated portions read like flat out misrepresentations of #MeToo (and it's corresponding French equivalent) and what's grown out of the Weinstein scandal.
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Jan 10, 2018 19:17
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Nucleic Acids posted:Le Monde put up that statement signed by 100 women from across entertainment, legal, and academic circles in France, and the translated portions read like flat out misrepresentations of #MeToo (and it's corresponding French equivalent) and what's grown out of the Weinstein scandal.
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Jan 10, 2018 19:34
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Toplowtech posted:The perception of the Weinstein scandal in France is far far less optimistic about what the American feminists will gain out of this crisis than let's say the english speaking part of twitter. Interesting, can you expand on what that general feeling is over there?
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Jan 10, 2018 20:38
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Rhyno posted:What's the opposite of being shocked? That's how I feel hearing that Douglas is also a sex pest. Exasperated?
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Jan 10, 2018 20:43
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Nucleic Acids posted:Le Monde put up that statement signed by 100 women from across entertainment, legal, and academic circles in France, and the translated portions read like flat out misrepresentations of #MeToo (and it's corresponding French equivalent) and what's grown out of the Weinstein scandal. There's still an awful lot of people who flat out don't get that this is about making women and men be heard about their abuse rather than stay silent in shame and especially fear of their (powerful) abusers. It drives me nuts when they try to make slippery slope arguments about how, soon, you can't tell a woman she's pretty anymore.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:44
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Nucleic Acids posted:Le Monde put up that statement signed by 100 women from across entertainment, legal, and academic circles in France, and the translated portions read like flat out misrepresentations of #MeToo (and it's corresponding French equivalent) and what's grown out of the Weinstein scandal. There's no shortage of more conservative older women who will go to bat for how all of this is overplayed or even made up. I think the worst incident of this I experienced myself was when a 96-year old woman in my organization out of nowhere starting talking about how she used to be quite the looker when she was younger and men didn't do anything wrong to her. Thusly, Metoo is completely overblown and sexual harassment doesn't happen. 
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Jan 10, 2018 20:57
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MiddleOne posted:There's no shortage of more conservative older women who will go to bat for how all of this is overplayed or even made up. I think the worst incident of this I experienced myself was when a 96-year old woman in my organization out of nowhere starting talking about how she used to be quite the looker when she was younger and men didn't do anything wrong to her. Thusly, Metoo is completely overblown and sexual harassment doesn't happen. I think there's a lot of people getting that same rap from their grandmothers right about now. I got it from mine, but thankfully she's with it enough and our relationship is good enough that I can say "hey grandma I think that's outdated thinking and you're waaaaay off on this one". But a lot of people understandably have to just eat that stuff or they're risking a major argument.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:59
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-Blackadder- posted:Interesting, can you expand on what that general feeling is over there? Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 21:12
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Toplowtech posted:Basicaly getting ride of a few men and putting a few women in place won't change the system, Hollywood will stay a giant rape machine and just try to hide it better. Worse case scenario, you manage to create an Outreau Trial style affair (McMartin preschool trial would be the us equivalent) and do more damage than you fix. I mean...they ain't wrong.
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Jan 10, 2018 21:35
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The Netflix exec who got fired for telling a victim that the company didn't believe the Danny Masterson allegations wants you all to know how sorry he is.
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Jan 10, 2018 22:43
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Barry Convex posted:The Netflix exec who got fired for telling a victim that the company didn't believe the Danny Masterson allegations wants you all to know how sorry he is. I have really conflicted feelings after reading this...
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Jan 10, 2018 22:46
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The fact is “we don’t believe them” is a lovely reply to a sexual abuse accusation, no matter how much or how little you know about the situation. In a way, his ability to give such an off-the-cuff response without having all of the facts (or even by his own admission a cursory understanding) of the situation is just another small example of the tone-deafness surrounding harassment or abuse that men need to meditate on going forward.
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Jan 10, 2018 22:53
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Barry Convex posted:The Netflix exec who got fired for telling a victim that the company didn't believe the Danny Masterson allegations wants you all to know how sorry he is. I'm on his side.
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Jan 10, 2018 22:54
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Barry Convex posted:The Netflix exec who got fired for telling a victim that the company didn't believe the Danny Masterson allegations wants you all to know how sorry he is. Is that how it happened? One of the victims just approached the dude during his daughter’s soccer game? Then was surprised he gave a stupid answer about something he wasn’t directly involved? Well that sucks for the guy. Then again I guess if you reach the level of exec at a big company you should know better than to give out such a stupid answer in the first place.
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Jan 10, 2018 22:55
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Is that how it happened? One of the victims just approached the dude during his daughter’s soccer game? Then was surprised he gave a stupid answer about something he wasn’t directly involved? Well that sucks for the guy. Then again I guess if you reach the level of exec at a big company you should know better than to give out such a stupid answer in the first place. To be honest, it kind of sounds like a Huff Po job given that they had called him that day already and the woman in question called them back before the game was over. I still think it was incredibly stupid. If a stranger approaches you at random and you're a Netflix executive, the best thing to say is "I can't comment".
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Jan 10, 2018 23:06
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21 Muns posted:Dude, this'd be worth shitcanning Stan Lee over if it were loving Breitbart. Sexual abuse is unacceptable no matter who's reporting on it. I am not buying it.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:10
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Judakel posted:I am not buying it. The percentage of old white men who get creepy/grabby with the nurses taking care of them is like 80%. That might be generous actually. I find it very easy to believe. It's even worse with foreign nurses on visas who have extra reason to feel hesitant about reporting incidents of abuse.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:14
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Title might be a little clickbaity, but there's a decent dissection from Forbes about the Williams/Wahlberg situation. Essentially despite her career this was a good thing for Williams who likely wanted a rare starring role to be released, whereas for Marky Mark it was just another gig. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...g/#377ea7357d8b
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Jan 10, 2018 23:19
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Basebf555 posted:The percentage of old white men who get creepy/grabby with the nurses taking care of them is like 80%. That might be generous actually. I find it very easy to believe. It's even worse with foreign nurses on visas who have extra reason to feel hesitant about reporting incidents of abuse. Really started to doubt it once I learned about the extortion attempt.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:19
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DrVenkman posted:To be honest, it kind of sounds like a Huff Po job given that they had called him that day already and the woman in question called them back before the game was over. There might be a good lesson to be learned from this, for both people realizing that the definition of a public figure has expanded to beyond just the big names in any type of business, hell even to regular schmoes like us, given the right set of circumstances w/r/t people being able to instantly share things on social media. I'm conflicted about what this means for the way people need to learn to conduct themselves in public in the age of most people having the internet in their pocket. In the case of this dude, he's an exec at Netflix and probably should have been prepared to just say he had no comment, or like he said directing the woman to people who would have better knowledge on the subject. I can sympathize, though, with the feeling that being at a soccer game with his family was the last place he expected to be put on the record for something, or even to be approached by a woman connected to it directly. I feel bad this guy lost his job and that I probably said a pretty lovely thing about him when the news first broke about an exec brushing a victim off when questioned about Masterson. I typically advocate wanting the full story before making any judgments, or to have at least more evidence brought forth etc but I still have kneejerk reactions to stories like this when it comes to anger at someone who may have directly or indirectly slighted someone who has come forward as a victim. When this story spiraled out of control and he got fired I was satisfied as hell about it, especially because Netflix had already been taking so long dealing with Masterson in the first place. Even if he wasn't in the wrong (and I don't think he was in the wrong, I think he made a little mistake at a very wrong time) I see what sort of PR disaster Netflix may have been facing if they kept him on, even if they got out ahead of it with his side of the story or whatever. That's just an unfortunate truth about working in big public facing businesses like that. While I hope people don't villainize this dude, I also really loving don't hope people villainize the woman who initially asked him about Masterson. She's been through enough grief and doesn't deserve any more. I'm more than happy to lay blame on this at the feet of the media. esperterra fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 23:27
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Basebf555 posted:The percentage of old white men who get creepy/grabby with the nurses taking care of them is like 80%. That might be generous actually. I find it very easy to believe. It's even worse with foreign nurses on visas who have extra reason to feel hesitant about reporting incidents of abuse. I used to watch the husband of one of my mom's friends before he died, and he had really bad Alzheimer's. One time when I was helping him get to bed he started to take his pants off because he thought I was going to give him a blowjob. But he wasn't being creepy or harassing me, he literally had no idea where he was or who I was. Sometimes he would think I was his wife, sometimes he would think I was his daughter. It just happens. They can't help it. Degenerative mental diseases like that are horrifying and I can't imagine the pain someone who has one might be going through. Whether or not Stan Lee has one idk, but if the allegations against him are laid at him while he was in his old age and not in his youth, I personally might lean toward him just being an elderly man who might say things inappropriate either because a. his brain isn't working properly or b. he's so loving old and frail he might wither into dust if he tries to change old habits. But I can't blame a woman for feeling unsafe just because of how rich and powerful that little old man is. He's probably going to die soon anyway. Isn't he like 90 something?
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Jan 10, 2018 23:34
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esperterra posted:There might be a good lesson to be learned from this, for both people realizing that the definition of a public figure has expanded to beyond just the big names in any type of business, hell even to regular schmoes like us, given the right set of circumstances w/r/t people being able to instantly share things on social media. I'm conflicted about what this means for the way people need to learn to conduct themselves in public in the age of most people having the internet in their pocket. In the case of this dude, he's an exec at Netflix and probably should have been prepared to just say he had no comment, or like he said directing the woman to people who would have better knowledge on the subject. I can sympathize, though, with the feeling that being at a soccer game with his family was the last place he expected to be put on the record for something, or even to be approached by a woman connected directly to it directly. I think your comment about the kneejerk reaction sums up my main issue with this guy being fired. I think it's super unfortunate that everything that sniffs of assault is now being handled like it is completely radioactive without any other considerations. I can see how this is a big PR boondoggle for netflix but having heard his side of the story it feels like such irresponsible "gotcha" journalism... like how did this victim know who this guy was or how to find him at a soccer game? He most certainly should have been held accountable for his actions and received publicity/sensitivity coaching but flat out firing him for an off-the-cuff comment when he had no idea of the context or the intent of the person doing the questioning sounds like a terrible precedent. I'm still all for these things coming to light as much as possible but the collateral damage seems to put at risk the gravity/authenticity of the real problems.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:37
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MMD3 posted:I think your comment about the kneejerk reaction sums up my main issue with this guy being fired. I think it's super unfortunate that everything that sniffs of assault is now being handled like it is completely radioactive without any other considerations. I can see how this is a big PR boondoggle for netflix but having heard his side of the story it feels like such irresponsible "gotcha" journalism... like how did this victim know who this guy was or how to find him at a soccer game? He most certainly should have been held accountable for his actions and received publicity/sensitivity coaching but flat out firing him for an off-the-cuff comment when he had no idea of the context or the intent of the person doing the questioning sounds like a terrible precedent. I'm still all for these things coming to light as much as possible but the collateral damage seems to put at risk the gravity/authenticity of the real problems. Yeah I mean I think best case scenario is that this woman, who is a victim, was used by the Huffington Post to confront this guy and report back on what he says? I mean what really is the likelihood that this woman was following a random Netflix executive around? Again, I think that what he said was really dumb. Even if you're not on company time, when someone asks you a question like that there's about a hundred different answers you can give. But I don't think that anyone really comes out of it looking clean.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:43
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Didn't the initial story mention that her child was also playing at the soccer game? I can't remember, but I think it's more likely that a woman who was already upset by how Netflix was handling this may have brought the story forward, and I don't blame her if she did. Idk if she was used by the media or if she contacted them first. I don't think it really matters, either, unless someone comes forward with proof saying she did this on purpose or whatever. I think it's just a series of unfortunate events.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:45
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His comment, one that by his own admission he made completely off the cuff without thinking about it much or researching the facts, shows that his default setting is to disbelieve reports of abuse by his employees. That is a problem. Exactly how much of a problem it is for his career is something I believe in letting the free market sort out.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:45
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Basebf555 posted:His comment, one that by his own admission he made completely off the cuff without thinking about it much or researching the facts, shows that his default setting is to disbelieve reports of abuse by his employees. That is a problem. Exactly how much of a problem it is for his career is something I believe in letting the free market sort out. I mean I don't know if I would even go that far. Yes it's entirely possible, but it's also not him. He had nothing to do with it. He worked in children's programming. If he was directly involved then that's one thing, but he just happened to work for the company. He probably had the same level of insight into what was going on as the janitor did.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:55
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The point is that very little of this, and unfortunately not too much of all that's happening in general, is about justice or equality or whatever. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 10, 2018 23:56
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porfiria posted:The point is that very little of this, and unfortunately not too much of all that's happening in general, is about justice or equality or whatever. Yep. A lot of it is about just being loving angry. And I don't blame people for being angry these days, I'm angry a lot of the time, too. But we need to step back and think for a second sometimes.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:58
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Nothing really gets done without at least a little bit of righteous anger. And it is about justice, because nobody gets justice if the abuse is never reported. Many of these industries basically need to be gutted in terms of the culture and then rebuilt from the ground up. Not that I think it will happen but you would certainly need to crack a few eggs to make that omelette.
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Jan 11, 2018 00:10
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Basebf555 posted:Nothing really gets done without at least a little bit of righteous anger. I agree entirely with the reasoning and the wanted end goals, especially when we're talking about the sexual abuse stuff in Hollywood and every big industry. I just don't agree with the means all the time.
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Jan 11, 2018 00:14
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DrVenkman posted:I mean I don't know if I would even go that far. Yes it's entirely possible, but it's also not him. He had nothing to do with it. He worked in children's programming. If he was directly involved then that's one thing, but he just happened to work for the company. He probably had the same level of insight into what was going on as the janitor did. yeah, my thought was that even though he's an executive there's still a very real chance that he doesn't have much PR training to handle questioning. Not every executive has to talk to the public and is savvy about being mindful of everything they say and how it can reflect on their company. Should he be aware of this? sure, but at a large company I can totally see a situation where he had very little exposure to the team handling the Masterson issue
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Jan 11, 2018 00:17
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MMD3 posted:yeah, my thought was that even though he's an executive there's still a very real chance that he doesn't have much PR training to handle questioning. Not every executive has to talk to the public and is savvy about being mindful of everything they say and how it can reflect on their company. Should he be aware of this? sure, but at a large company I can totally see a situation where he had very little exposure to the team handling the Masterson issue Who would you rather work for, someone who hears a rape allegation and says "holy poo poo, we better look into this immediately" or someone that says "I don't believe it". It's like saying that it's not the person's fault for saying something offensive because they were drunk. People just say what was already in their head when they're drunk.
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Jan 11, 2018 00:20
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Man slaps Harvey Weinstein twice in the face (video): http://www.tmz.com/2018/01/10/harvey-weinstein-attacked-video-restaurant/ Corey Feldman Named in Sexual Battery Report http://www.tmz.com/2018/01/10/corey-feldman-under-investigation-sexual-battery/
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Jan 11, 2018 00:31
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Basebf555 posted:Who would you rather work for, someone who hears a rape allegation and says "holy poo poo, we better look into this immediately" or someone that says "I don't believe it". Except he didn't say "I don't believe it". The woman asked why Netflix hasn't done anything about Masterson and he said that Netflix take all accusations seriously so maybe they don't believe it. He isn't speaking for him. He's being flippant and that's on him. The case against Masterson was ongoing, it's not like the woman came up to this random guy, told him what happened to her and he said he didn't believe her.
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Jan 11, 2018 00:32
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DrVenkman posted:Except he didn't say "I don't believe it". The woman asked why Netflix hasn't done anything about Masterson and he said that Netflix take all accusations seriously so maybe they don't believe it. He isn't speaking for him. He's being flippant and that's on him. The case against Masterson was ongoing, it's not like the woman came up to this random guy, told him what happened to her and he said he didn't believe her. That's my fault for not reading the direct quote before commenting on it, I must have misread someone's post earlier where I thought they quoted him. That does make a difference yea because you could read that a few different ways it's not as direct a statement as I thought it was.
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Jan 11, 2018 00:35
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Basebf555 posted:That's my fault for not reading the direct quote before commenting on it, I must have misread someone's post earlier where I thought they quoted him. That does make a difference yea because you could read that a few different ways it's not as direct a statement as I thought it was. I believe the original story was an exec saying he didn't believe the victim, so I don't blame you for getting it confused before checking the new quote yourself.
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Jan 11, 2018 00:37
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Basebf555 posted:I think there's a lot of people getting that same rap from their grandmothers right about now. I got it from mine, but thankfully she's with it enough and our relationship is good enough that I can say "hey grandma I think that's outdated thinking and you're waaaaay off on this one". But a lot of people understandably have to just eat that stuff or they're risking a major argument. My grandma said something similar, that it just happened and they never considered it wrong. There is a massive generational gap Happy Noodle Boy posted:Is that how it happened? One of the victims just approached the dude during his daughter’s soccer game? Then was surprised he gave a stupid answer about something he wasn’t directly involved? Well that sucks for the guy. Then again I guess if you reach the level of exec at a big company you should know better than to give out such a stupid answer in the first place. Then give a non-answer, not a lovely refusal to do anything. gently caress this guy and trying to make it about him. This is part of the loving problem. We're supposed to be more regretful about some guy's job than a loving rape victim. Oh, no, he got fired? How awful, I'm sure that's much worse than being raped by a loving co-worker who then just carries on. And yes, people are loving angry. I'm angry now because a man's default response to a woman telling him they were raped by a co-worker was to disbelieve her, and somehow we're sad for him. DrVenkman posted:Except he didn't say "I don't believe it". The woman asked why Netflix hasn't done anything about Masterson and he said that Netflix take all accusations seriously so maybe they don't believe it. He isn't speaking for him. He's being flippant and that's on him. The case against Masterson was ongoing, it's not like the woman came up to this random guy, told him what happened to her and he said he didn't believe her. No, he said 'the company doesn't believe it' such a loving moral high ground. The French stuff is really sad. Also, given that they'll happily close ranks to protect a child rapist in Polanski, and a child trafficker whose name I can't remember (kids were being trafficked in Mexico, a French woman was involved, France refused to extradite or prosecute her) I'm loathe to think what the motives here might be.
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Jan 11, 2018 00:47
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