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Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

NEED MORE MILK posted:

those suck and also the pencil gives you pressure sensitivity and assists with hand/palm rejection

wacom is the gold standard, especially when it comes to things like pressure and tilt sensing, and have a passive (well, operating off the magnetic field the sensor emits) pen afaik

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Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

wacom is the gold standard, especially when it comes to things like pressure and tilt sensing, and have a passive (well, operating off the magnetic field the sensor emits) pen afaik

Wacom is also rapidly losing market share

every Wacom tablet I used in the 00’s was garbage, can’t say about recent offerings

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

kwinklesOFFICIAL posted:

lmao if you have a pencil.

dixon ticonderoga bithc

accept no substitutes

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:

Wacom is also rapidly losing market share

every Wacom tablet I used in the 00’s was garbage, can’t say about recent offerings

never met a serious art/design person with anything else yet, but, either way, going "timb had to put a battery in there to enable the ~pressure sensitivity~" is bullshit

i again maintain the ipads pro are great though, but let's not defend random aspects in random ways

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...
ah yes, this one feature was done in the 90's with a dedicated unit 8x the size of the products we're talking about, therefore it could be done with marginal space now. rock solid theory here

Bulgogi Hoagie
Jun 1, 2012

We
wacom is for arts people not normal or business people

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

never met a serious art/design person with anything else yet, but, either way, going "timb had to put a battery in there to enable the ~pressure sensitivity~" is bullshit

i again maintain the ipads pro are great though, but let's not defend random aspects in random ways

there’s a bunch of people on YouTube making art videos with the Pro, who previously used Wacoms, most seem to like the pencil better

Stymie
Jan 9, 2001

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
yes there are quite a few paid shills in the world, on youtube especially

if an engineer came to steve with the ipencil he would have done the joker disappearing pencil trick with them

Jimmy Carter
Nov 3, 2005

THIS MOTHERDUCKER
FLIES IN STYLE
maybe instead of demanding an eraser you should be making less mistakes to begin with :colbert:

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

JawnV6 posted:

ah yes, this one feature was done in the 90's with a dedicated unit 8x the size of the products we're talking about, therefore it could be done with marginal space now. rock solid theory here

what on earth are you on about? wacom digitizers are commonly used in various tablets, of size and weight similar to the pros (it is literally another coil and controller chip, nothing actually fancy)

none are, still, as good as an ipad pro, but not because of digitizer quality. i would assume wacom has a bunch of patents on the stuff making almost all competitors go other routes, but it is not independently powered pens that somehow enables quality pressure sensitivity

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

it is not independently powered pens that somehow enables quality pressure sensitivity

cool, maybe use an argument that supports that conclusion instead of specious garbage?? idk im not the one making claims

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

...uh? wacom does pressure sensitivity and does not have independently powered pens, what are you looking for beyond this?

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

...uh? wacom does pressure sensitivity and does not have independently powered pens, what are you looking for beyond this?

proof the pencil would be better the way you describe, specifically, proof the current design of the pencil does not in any way enable it to be better than its competitors

Dixie Cretin Seaman
Jan 22, 2008

all hat and one catte
Hot Rope Guy
i used a windows tablet pc in the naughts, with a wacom digitizer. it was pretty thin and light for its time. the pen had an eraser, didn't need to charge, and had good pressure sensitivity. the computer could track the pen when it hovers near the screen, so that could have been leveraged for palm rejection on a touchscreen. its latency was as good as anything made since up until the most recent ipad.

it had a lot of problems, all of which can be traced back to the decision to cram wintel into a tablet form factor

edit: it was this one

Dixie Cretin Seaman fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 12, 2018

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

Stymie posted:

if an engineer came to steve with the ipencil he would have done the joker disappearing pencil trick with them

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

carry on then posted:

proof the pencil would be better the way you describe, specifically, proof the current design of the pencil does not in any way enable it to be better than its competitors

obviously something prevented this being possible, every thought anyone in yospos ever has about a change in such a major product will have been thought about previously by someone better paid and informed working on the product, i do dare point out, however, that a battery is not needed for excellent pressure sensitivity, as evidenced by wacom being very good at that aspect. i'd bet on patent issues mostly personally

considering that i love the end product either way this all seems pretty defensive

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
steve "the newton was a mistake" jobs would weep over what the ipad has become

heated game moment
Oct 30, 2003

Lipstick Apathy

JawnV6 posted:

cool, maybe use an argument that supports that conclusion instead of specious garbage?? idk im not the one making claims


JawnV6 posted:

ah yes, this one feature was done in the 90's with a dedicated unit 8x the size of the products we're talking about, therefore it could be done with marginal space now. rock solid theory here

look at how upset this guy is. lmao

Doc Block
Apr 15, 2003
Fun Shoe
doesn’t the pencil also have accelerometers so it can tell what angle it’s being held at, to simulate pencil shading etc?

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.
Going to be hilarious when Samsung and Microsoft launch folding phones and Tim blindly copies 'em.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

need to launch the touchscreen macs first, so it'll be a bit

zen death robot
May 27, 2001

cool startup feel posted:

look at how upset this guy is. lmao

extremely mad about pencils lol

emoji
Jun 4, 2004

cool startup feel posted:

look at how upset this guy is. lmao

lol. So weird

Grassy Knowles
Apr 4, 2003

"The original Terminator was a gritty fucking AMAZING piece of sci-fi. Gritty fucking rock-hard MURDER!"

carry on then posted:

dixon ticonderoga bithc

accept no substitutes

rotring 800

Dixie Cretin Seaman
Jan 22, 2008

all hat and one catte
Hot Rope Guy

Doc Block posted:

doesn’t the pencil also have accelerometers so it can tell what angle it’s being held at, to simulate pencil shading etc?

not only has wacom had this (pen tilt) for years, they also self a pen that tracks the rotation of the pen along its cylindrical axis. so you can define a fancy oblong brush head in photoshop and get different effects as you twist the pen during the stroke

like the eraser on the back, it's the kind of physically-intuitive interface apple used to aspire to

poty
Jun 21, 2008

虹はどこで終わるのですか? あなたの魂の中で、または地平線で?
apple should buy wacom and their lovely patents

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i figure they can just improve the charging situation. wacoms solution is really neat, but with batteries cheap and dense it is probably not really needed anymore. inductive charging for the pen, and a stand where it happens, and no one would think about it again

may be worth it to buy wacom anyway to just replicate all the features of their stuff, but that'd be a committal to an actual pro market, which is likely not apples aim anymore

Astoundingly Ugly Baby
Mar 22, 2006

"...crying bitch cave bitch boy."
- Anonymous Facebook user
before I bought an iPad Pro, I had a Windows Lenovo Yoga tablet 8 or whatever it was called with "anypen" tech, which I'm pretty sure was just a dumb name for a hypersensitive touchscreen. I could use literally any metallic implement as a stylus and it was real bad. Sometimes I could hover a finger over the screen and get phantom touches.

anyhow, one time I heard a guy pronounce Wacom as 'Wackem' and that sounds a lot stupider than how I imagined it to be pronounced, which was 'Way-Com'.

ufarn
May 30, 2009
my mom wants "a larger ipad", and i just know she's going to find a way to shatter it in a million pieces somehow

hopefully a smart cover will do most of the work

Dixie Cretin Seaman
Jan 22, 2008

all hat and one catte
Hot Rope Guy
apple should just use some faceid sensors to track and respond to a new apple pencil that's just a solid piece of pencil-shaped white plastic with some IR-reflective markings for calibration. sell it as an accessory for $200

mrmcd
Feb 22, 2003

Pictured: The only good cop (a fictional one).

Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:

apple should just use some faceid sensors to track and respond to a new apple pencil that's just a solid piece of pencil-shaped white plastic with some IR-reflective markings for calibration. sell it as an accessory for $200

Don't you get in serious, police haul you off to a secret black site kind of trouble for leaking Apple product road maps?

Stymie
Jan 9, 2001

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
nah tim just kind of shrugs and tsks vaguely

steve would literally have leakers thrown off roofs

born on a buy you
Aug 14, 2005

Odd Fullback
Bird Gang
Sack Them All

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

never met a serious art/design person with anything else yet, but, either way, going "timb had to put a battery in there to enable the ~pressure sensitivity~" is bullshit

i again maintain the ipads pro are great though, but let's not defend random aspects in random ways

wacom owns a billion patents around that and will sue the gently caress out of you if you get anywhere near a non-battery operated pressure sensitive stylus.

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?
or maybe Apple figured that they will sell ten million iPads but one hundred thousand pencils so it’s more cost effective to put the expensive hardware in the pencil rather than in every iPad sold

TOPS-420
Feb 13, 2012

apple doesnt seem to have a problem building in expensive hardware nobody uses on the mac. touch bar, thunderbolt controllers, etc

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

Jimmy Carter posted:

maybe instead of demanding an eraser you should be making less mistakes to begin with :colbert:

"Fewer" not "less". Hth.

Grassy Knowles
Apr 4, 2003

"The original Terminator was a gritty fucking AMAZING piece of sci-fi. Gritty fucking rock-hard MURDER!"

Schadenboner posted:

"Fewer" not "less". Hth.

the only less mistake is using more

Astoundingly Ugly Baby
Mar 22, 2006

"...crying bitch cave bitch boy."
- Anonymous Facebook user
Did Apple change the type of plastic used for the keyboards starting with the 12-inch MacBook? The keys on my early-2015 look all greasy and generally gross and I barely ever use this thing. My Air's keyboard looks almost new after nearly 5 years of use.

I think I've asked this before. Not sure.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
just ran into this https://pikeralpha.wordpress.com/2017/08/05/osinstall-mpkg-appears-to-be-missing-or-damaged/

what loving genius came up with

code:
<key>IAEndDate</key>
<date>~date~</date>
and what loving genius removed the fix they already added to resolve this issue the last time it happened?

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infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
i should clarify, this was on an imac with no boot fuckery like that guy, just the fix is the same because the updater has a best-by date that kills your install if it expires before completion

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