|
WD and Crucial (they haven't had another BX200 fiasco, at least) are decent as well, and Intel's SATA drives didn't become competitive again until the 545s.
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 15:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 02:12 |
|
|
GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Ah sorry, in M2. If that drive even was 128GB w 4xPCIE M2 I might want one. the high-capacity optane drives need heatsinks to drive fast enough to saturate a 4x. they couldn't go in a M.2 without melting, this new 800p version is using new "low power states" 58gb is interesting, you can fit an OS on that. probably gonna be like $3 per gb though. Naffer posted:I have a 240GB PNY 8LR8 Pro that I bought about 4 years go and used relatively lightly. At the time, it had rather positive reviews. About a month or two ago I noticed something seemed off, and after benchmarking it realized that while reads were fine, writes to the SSD had slowed to a trickle. Random and sequential writes of ~ 3MB/s. I backed it up, swapped it and formatted and trimmed it but it's still hosed even empty. Should I chuck it in the bin or does anyone have any idea how to rescue or repurpose it? 2) if step 1 is ok, try swapping to different PC if possible? Klyith fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 15:24
|
|
|
Naffer posted:I checked PNY's website and they 1) don't have any firmware for it anymore and 2) don't have software to secure erase it. You could try manually sending it the ATA Secure Erase command from a Linux environment: https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase I don't think there's a way to do it from Windows unfortunately.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 15:49
|
|
|
Do it the old fashioned way and copy over a some unimportant file, then keep duplicating it on the disk till it's full. Wouldn't take that long, even with slowed down writes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
What's wrong with using DBAN?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 17:10
|
|
|
When you format an SSD, how does the SSD know it’s a format operation and zeros all the blocks? Is there a special format ATA command that should be sent during a format? Pershaps older OSes might not be able to do this correctly?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 20:51
|
|
|
When you enable trim in macOS using trimforce, it kinda hangs for a while. Is that hang time the OS sending the SSD all unused blocks and the SSD zeroing them? Seems to take about as long as a secure erase.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 20:56
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:When you format an SSD, how does the SSD know it’s a format operation and zeros all the blocks? Formatting doesn't do that, does it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 21:23
|
|
|
Bob Morales posted:Formatting doesn't do that, does it? "Full format" does, "quick format" only rewrites the basic file system so it appears empty.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 21:28
|
|
|
nielsm posted:"Full format" does, "quick format" only rewrites the basic file system so it appears empty. Actually I’m not sure. A full format to the SSD controller is just a bunch of random writes even if all zero could be valid data. I had a brain fart when I posted. I think you have to send the secure erase ATA command for the SSD to know the blocks are free. So traditional formatting does nothing other than destroying the file table for the OS. The SSD still thinks there’s valid data.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 21:47
|
|
|
nielsm posted:"Full format" does, "quick format" only rewrites the basic file system so it appears empty. On windows full format only started writing zeroes with windows 7. Before that it did a quick format and check disk.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:Is that hang time the OS sending the SSD all unused blocks and the SSD zeroing them?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 21:56
|
|
|
Star War Sex Parrot posted:It's probably issuing TRIM to all of the unused LBAs, but I've never watched the specific behavior of trimforce through an analyzer. The SSD's behavior is indeterminate since different FTLs do whatever the hell they want. Right. I just figured since the hang time is kind of long for just issuing the list of unused blocks. Not sure if there’s another ATA command that forces the SSD to flush its zeroing queue but if it’s not gonna take long then it would make sense to do it when trim is enabled.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 22:03
|
|
|
GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Ah sorry, in M2. I wouldn't even mind 128GB if it was PCIEx4 M2. Problem solved!!! 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 22:09
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:Problem solved!!! A very neat elegant solution!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 22:14
|
|
|
repiv posted:You could try manually sending it the ATA Secure Erase command from a Linux environment: https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase And read the whole thing before you do it: don't do it from (certain?) USB-SATA adapters and brick your drive like I did!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 23:17
|
|
|
ChiralCondensate posted:And read the whole thing before you do it: don't do it from (certain?) USB-SATA adapters and brick your drive like I did! 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 23:57
|
|
|
Klyith posted:the high-capacity optane drives need heatsinks to drive fast enough to saturate a 4x. they couldn't go in a M.2 without melting, this new 800p version is using new "low power states" It doesn't seem that bad. 4 reallocated sectors and only 11TB lifetime writes. That's what, <50 NAND cycles? This is a sandforce based drive if it matters. Naffer fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jan 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
Is this a pricing mistake? https://www.amazon.com/HP-Internal-Solid-2LU81AA-ABL/dp/B075CPBWMX/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1515732576&sr=8-4&keywords=s700+pro
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 05:51
|
|
|
ChiralCondensate posted:And read the whole thing before you do it: don't do it from (certain?) USB-SATA adapters and brick your drive like I did! I bricked a regular HDD by sending it a secure erase command for shits 
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 05:52
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:Is this a pricing mistake?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 05:54
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:$280 sounds like a normal price unless you're seeing something different Oh nm. I haven't shopped SSDs in a while. Wasn't expecting 1T drives for that price and the S700 pro initial reviews put the price for 1T at over $100 more than that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 06:28
|
|
|
Naffer posted:I have a 240GB PNY 8LR8 Pro that I bought about 4 years go and used relatively lightly. At the time, it had rather positive reviews. About a month or two ago I noticed something seemed off, and after benchmarking it realized that while reads were fine, writes to the SSD had slowed to a trickle. Random and sequential writes of ~ 3MB/s. I backed it up, swapped it and formatted and trimmed it but it's still hosed even empty. Should I chuck it in the bin or does anyone have any idea how to rescue or repurpose it? We actually bought 10x XLR8 to our company and started to experience similar issues.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 08:02
|
|
|
You can secure erase with Parted Magic bootable linux. Not free tho. I have the same XLR8 but not nearly as much use on it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 08:15
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:You can secure erase with Parted Magic bootable linux. Not free tho. I have the same XLR8 but not nearly as much use on it. Just tried it using the old free version. Still seems hosed. The benchmark below is after a secure erase on an empty disk. makere posted:We actually bought 10x XLR8 to our company and started to experience similar issues. It looks like a ton of people who reviewed this drive on amazon had similar failure issues.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 14:35
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:Oh nm. I haven't shopped SSDs in a while. Wasn't expecting 1T drives for that price and the S700 pro initial reviews put the price for 1T at over $100 more than that. Does this thread even recommend the S700?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 15:12
|
|
|
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11790/the-hp-s700-and-s700-pro-ssd-review "The S700 Pro's closest relatives in the market are drives like the ADATA Ultimate SU800 that use the same 3D TLC and Silicon Motion's SM2258 controller." Generally the name "ADATA" makes everyone in here recoil and hiss, so I'd say the better bet is the WD Blue 3D for about  or  more. That or the Crucial MX500, which I think is ~$260 for the 1TB model.Here's SR's review for the MX500: http://www.storagereview.com/crucial_mx500_ssd_review_500gb
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 15:45
|
|
|
Naffer posted:Just tried it using the old free version. Still seems hosed. The benchmark below is after a secure erase on an empty disk. yuck, that seems like a firmware fuckup. are you sure that pny has deleted all firmware for the drive? it kinda looks like this might be an all-in-one utility for all their ssds? anyways I'm surprised PNY aren't on the shady scammers list in the OP along with kingston, since they were pulling a lot of the same crap with mixed-bag NAND and selling different things with the same label.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
Klyith posted:yuck, that seems like a firmware fuckup. are you sure that pny has deleted all firmware for the drive? it kinda looks like this might be an all-in-one utility for all their ssds? I've tried every scrap of firmware software I can find. The new software from their site recognizes the drive but gives a strange error "FATAL ERROR: Unable to extract flashware image xxx.xxx." I found some older software (http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Hard-Disk-Utils/PNY-Drive-Utility.shtml) that also recognizes the drive but requires a separate fw file. The two versions I've been able to find "pny-fwimage-v103.fwp" and 108 both give a message that the drive is up to date. Not clear how I'd force them to flash over the existing firmware anyways. I think the fact that PNY deletes the software for old devices from their website is reason enough to never buy their SSDs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 18:33
|
|
|
My XLR8 firmware is marked on the sticker as CS211101
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 18:41
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:My XLR8 firmware is marked on the sticker as CS211101 My sticker says FW version 5.4.1. We might have different controllers. EDIT: Apparently this drive came with a 5 year warranty if you registered it, but only a 3 year if you didn't. I bought it 3.5 years ago. Lets see what PNY says. EDIT2: I just realized XLR8 is pronounced "accelerate". That makes way more sense now. Naffer fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jan 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
It says it on the outside because it ain't on the inside.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 19:11
|
|
|
BIG HEADLINE posted:It says it on the outside because it ain't on the inside. Well at least PNY's top-notch technical support agrees that there's a problem: PNY support posted:There is no firmware update it seems that drive controller is starting to fail Thanks Don.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 19:53
|
|
|
Naffer posted:My sticker says FW version 5.4.1. We might have different controllers. Guh do I need to register my SSDs now?....nah gently caress it. Ain’t got no time to reg the 1000s of parts I have. GL with Don. Keep us posted.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 21:04
|
|
|
KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:What's wrong with using DBAN? DBAN is built around the assumption that when it overwrites a particular SATA Logical Block Address (LBA) several times in a row, it is overwriting the same physical location in the media each time, and that roughly all of the drive’s physical storage is directly addressable. HDDs actually work that way, more or less. The spare sector pool (and any failed sectors that have been replaced by spares) are not addressable through SATA, but the amount of spare area on a HDD is tiny. SSDs are different. They have a Flash Translation Layer which makes it difficult to know whether you’ve actually erased anything by “overwriting” it. The FTL completely virtualizes the LBA address space, has a significantly bigger physical address space than virtual (there’s usually a minimum of 7% more storage than the marketed capacity of the drive), and will nearly always be doing things like “oh you want to overwrite LBA 379? Ok I’ll mark the old physical location for erasure at some unknown time in the future, pull an erased sector out of the free list, write the new data there, and update the logical to physical address mapping table so that future reads get the new data”. After that, the old data is no longer addressable through SATA commands, but an attacker capable of disassembling the drive or hacking its firmware to get raw flash memory access can read it. When you issue a SATA Secure Erase command to a well designed SSD, it bypasses the FTL and tells the drive to directly and immediately erase all physical storage, including blocks which failed and were retired at some time in the past. This level of erasure is actually better than you can do with DBAN on a HDD since there’s no way for DBAN to erase failed, spared out sectors. (Some SSDS may implement Secure Erase by encrypting all data stored on the drive, and erasing only the decryption key when asked to do a Secure Erase. Same level of erasure, except potentially vulnerable to the encryption cipher getting cracked in the future.) Another point against using DBAN on SSDs is that by its nature DBAN wants to overwrite several times, and that’s not good for your SSD’s lifespan. A Secure Erase should put much less wear on the drive.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
BobHoward posted:Another point against using DBAN on SSDs is that by its nature DBAN wants to overwrite several times, and that’s not good for your SSD’s lifespan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 00:31
|
|
|
Star War Sex Parrot posted:Does DBAN write zeroes or random data? An FTL optimization I'd try would be to only allocate a physical page to an LBA if the value being written is non-zero. In theory then a multiple DBAN pass wouldn't actually affect NAND life unless that process writes non-zero data to the LBAs. Not sure exactly what DBAN does off the top of my head, and that does seem like a viable optimization. However in that case a zero-writing DBAN wouldn’t be erasing much of anything. If you absolutely have to use something like DBAN to erase an SSD with confidence that the data is gone, it would be best to do many overwrite passes and for those passes to actually be writing to physical storage. (Many = some indeterminate amount, but probably 10 full drive writes or more. You’d need to generate enough write-cycle wear to force wear leveling to recycle even the storage that had an outlier level of wear at the start of the process.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 00:48
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:Guh do I need to register my SSDs now?....nah gently caress it. Ain’t got no time to reg the 1000s of parts I have. Don and I came to an agreement and he authorized an RMA. Excellent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 00:48
|
|
|
MX500 2TB's MSRP is $500 flat, which is a new record for non-discounted 2TB drives. It's a really good drive too so it seems like Micron are going for the throat on average NAND pricing. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078C515QL/ https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820156175
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 14:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 02:12 |
|
|
Bench of my mx500 1tb that i got yesterdaycode:
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 21:25
|
|