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Inescapable Duck posted:There was that entire episode about Marge getting a job at the nuclear plant and getting sexually harassed by Mr Burns with no recourse until she quit. "People like us can't afford justice" is still depressingly relevant 
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Jan 12, 2018 13:07
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Inescapable Duck posted:
Depression era bank robbers like Dillinger were basically folk heroes in their own day. There are a lot of stories, most apocryphal, of him sticking it to the man in one way or another. Jesse James has a similar image despite him essentially being a Confederate insurgent refusing to admit the civil war was over.
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Jan 12, 2018 13:15
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Henchman of Santa posted:Reminds me of another fitting thing (maybe more for the IIMM thread): Mean Girls and Easy A, while both very funny, have to overcome the idea that Lindsay Lohan and Emma Stone wouldn't have boys falling all over themselves for them in high school. I think that they try to play up their personalities as part of it but that wouldn't really matter to 16-year-olds. In Easy A she did have attention iirc, just acted kinda stonewally and weird.
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Jan 12, 2018 13:47
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The whole plot of Easy A was she was pretending to be the town bicycle while having guys pay her for her to pretend she had sex with them, so. And it all resulted from her being pressured into sex and deciding to play along and fool everyone for money.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:08
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It annoys me when Easy A is compared to Mean Girls because Mean Girls is soooo much better.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:16
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Gaunab posted:It annoys me when Easy A is compared to Mean Girls because Mean Girls is soooo much better. They’re both 10 times better than the average high school comedy. Also Mean Girls doesn’t have Stanley Tucci.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:16
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Yeah the episode with Homer being accused of harassment definitely would be problematic if it aired today; not so much because of the episode itself, but because of the way certain people would perceive its message, ignoring specific circumstantial details and just saying "See? That's how easy it is to ruin someone's life! What about men's rights!!!". It's not so much that the writers got it wrong, but rather that they had no idea people would eventually become stupid enough to need this stuff spelled out for them. They figured it was a given that real sexual harassment happens and this was just a story about a fictional, comedic misunderstanding.
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Jan 12, 2018 16:14
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Inescapable Duck posted:Are bank robbers more sympathetic nowadays? It took me over a decade to realize that Robert De Niro wasn't the hero in Heat.
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Jan 12, 2018 16:32
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In retrospect Kevin Spacey got real evil real quick in Baby Driver. There's a new lady bank robber TV series coming out. So yeah, I think it's safe to say America likes bank robbers if they're White women.
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Jan 12, 2018 16:56
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I think people like bank robbers so long as they're painted as the protagonists, and probably up until the point that they start killing people, with the exception of maybe The Dark Knight's Joker. Like, Baby Driver's protagonists are basically all nice, likable people until they all start turning on each other and Kevin Spacey gets mad. Heck, at least 2 GTA games now have the main characters pulling off bank heists with at least semi-likable criminal side-characters, and the bank heist isn't even the climax of either game. You're expected to play for a long while after that, and ostensibly still like the characters.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:14
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SpacePig posted:I think people like bank robbers so long as they're painted as the protagonists, and probably up until the point that they start killing people, with the exception of maybe The Dark Knight's Joker. Like, Baby Driver's protagonists are basically all nice, likable people until they all start turning on each other and Kevin Spacey gets mad. Heck, at least 2 GTA games now have the main characters pulling off bank heists with at least semi-likable criminal side-characters, and the bank heist isn't even the climax of either game. You're expected to play for a long while after that, and ostensibly still like the characters. I would say that people like bank robbers as long as they're relatable. Baby Driver is good at this because the change comes when you realize just how broke some of the people are and how callous and downright sinister they really are underneath that likeability. Even Spacey's character has that in a sort of reverse which the character also pays for. Still, great movie.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:24
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Robbing banks is cool and good.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:43
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:I would say that people like bank robbers as long as they're relatable. Baby Driver is good at this because the change comes when you realize just how broke some of the people are and how callous and downright sinister they really are underneath that likeability. Even Spacey's character has that in a sort of reverse which the character also pays for. But there's that undercurrent of violence. Baby only let's bits and pieces of it in until he's put squarely in front of it with the lady Post Office clerk. Baby Driver does a pretty good job of giving you one side of the story and then you start to realize all of these people are terrible, including Baby.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:46
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Idea: Bank robbery TV series where the protagonists are white nationalists funding their bitcoin mining and trading op. And they wear Pepe masks.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:57
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FreudianSlippers posted:Robbing banks is cool and good. I used to work at a bank, so I'd kinda disagree, but bank heist movies and games and whatnot are still pretty entertaining to me. Krispy Wafer posted:But there's that undercurrent of violence. Baby only let's bits and pieces of it in until he's put squarely in front of it with the lady Post Office clerk. Baby's still sympathetic, though, despite ending up being terrible. It's all about how they're presented. Baby doesn't do any of the physical robbing, and since we see his everyday life, we know he's a regular guy with a fairly regular life. We see him try to save the not-terrible things in his life from his terrible decisions. He's not necessarily a good person, but we sympathize with him because he is the protagonist, and the least terrible of the group.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:57
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Krispy Wafer posted:But there's that undercurrent of violence. Baby only let's bits and pieces of it in until he's put squarely in front of it with the lady Post Office clerk. The thing that surprised me about Baby Driver is that early on it felt like they were hinting at a different story, with Buddy bonding with Baby and from that I expected Buddy to die sticking up for him against Bats, so the direction they went in was interesting
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Jan 12, 2018 18:01
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El Gallinero Gros posted:The thing that surprised me about Baby Driver is that early on it felt like they were hinting at a different story, with Buddy bonding with Baby and from that I expected Buddy to die sticking up for him against Bats, so the direction they went in was interesting It's a great swerve because Jon Hamm is so goddamn charming and from the moment Bats is introduced you already go "Oh, so this is the guy that's going to gently caress with Baby for the rest of the movie and get a climatic comeuppance" and then he just loving murders him out of nowhere
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Jan 12, 2018 20:08
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Samuringa posted:It's a great swerve because Jon Hamm is so goddamn charming and from the moment Bats is introduced you already go "Oh, so this is the guy that's going to gently caress with Baby for the rest of the movie and get a climatic comeuppance" and then he just loving murders him out of nowhere But it also leads to the biggest disappointment of the movie. They hype Hamm to be this other big deal wheel man and once his turn occurs you realize you're in for one hell of a car chase scene. Then the movie gives us that wet fart of a car chase between the two of them and it's a big let down.
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Jan 12, 2018 20:20
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Krispy Wafer posted:In retrospect Kevin Spacey got real evil real quick in Baby Driver. If you're thinking of Good Girls Retta, a black woman, is one of the stars
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Jan 12, 2018 21:06
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FreudianSlippers posted:
Train robbers in general was actually considered the good guys because the train companies were run by robber barons.
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Jan 12, 2018 21:14
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Trauma Dog 3000 posted:It's good to know that peoples lives are settled and comfortable enough that they can pretend to be upset about the television show freinds Friends hasn't aged well. One of the first seasons Chandler gets a roommate who has a mental illness and his response is to kick him out into the street. And Ross suuuucccckkkkss. The Chick and The Duck do rule though.
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Jan 12, 2018 21:57
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duck trucker posted:Friends hasn't aged well. One of the first seasons Chandler gets a roommate who has a mental illness and his response is to kick him out into the street. We regret to inform you, the duck is racist.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:01
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SiKboy posted:We regret to inform you, the duck is racist. The Duck knows now that a chick is not a toy.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:12
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duck trucker posted:Friends hasn't aged well. One of the first seasons Chandler gets a roommate who has a mental illness and his response is to kick him out into the street. I watched an episode recently where they were sharing embarrassing secrets about each other and one of Chandlers was (unknowningly) kissing a guy, which was treated like the most hilarious, embarrassing thing ever. Worse then Ross making GBS threads himself on Space mountain after bad tacos. It seemed pretty weird nowadays. New York having no black people in at all is pretty funny though.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:51
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Obligatory.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:56
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I didn’t think think the Chandler is gay stories were homophobic as such. The humour mostly comes from how ridiculous his reaction is, and how people assume he’s gay, but can’t quite say why. It’s dated yes, but not as bad as other shows from the time period. Ross has aged badly as a character. Looking back he’s such a creepy nice guy, and his controlling behaviour is shown as being romantic.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:03
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SEX BURRITO posted:I didn’t think think the Chandler is gay stories were homophobic as such. The humour mostly comes from how ridiculous his reaction is, and how people assume he’s gay, but can’t quite say why. It’s dated yes, but not as bad as other shows from the time period. His fear of being thought of as gay is often linked to his embarrassment at his father's sexual antics when he was growing up. Which is less gay panic and more the universal horror of being confronted with parents (and various poolboys) as sexual beings. Add in his father's sexuality being a cause of his parents' messy divorce and you've got a perfectly understandable measure of self-conscious homophobia.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:30
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SEX BURRITO posted:I didn’t think think the Chandler is gay stories were homophobic as such. The humour mostly comes from how ridiculous his reaction is, and how people assume he’s gay, but can’t quite say why. It’s dated yes, but not as bad as other shows from the time period. The episode where Ross is convinced his cousin wants to bang him and so he tries to gently caress her probably wasn't even received well when it happened, or at least I hope it wasn't
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Jan 13, 2018 03:47
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Aesop Poprock posted:The episode where Ross is convinced his cousin wants to bang him and so he tries to gently caress her probably wasn't even received well when it happened, or at least I hope it wasn't What about the episode where Ross was having a relationship with his student and he said "it was frowned upon" but not illegal and then he tells this to some dean or something and get summarily fired? Seems like he was a real creep.
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Jan 13, 2018 04:22
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Ross' character is pretty forward thinking since he's obviously the nice guy rear end in a top hat. Like you'd think Chandler would be it, but no it's "WE WERE ON A BREAK!" Ross. Ross would totally be a MRA. Joey is a PUA. Chandler is Incel. Gunther probably posts on 4Chan.
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Jan 13, 2018 04:38
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sassassin posted:His fear of being thought of as gay is often linked to his embarrassment at his father's sexual antics when he was growing up. Which is less gay panic and more the universal horror of being confronted with parents (and various poolboys) as sexual beings. I'd agree with that. I also things that his transgender father when from a comedy punchline to a real person and the relationship between them when Chandler was inviting him to the wedding was quite touching and sympathetic.
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Jan 13, 2018 13:48
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Ross' line "You haven't put on a cocktail dress and hit on me, so you're nothing like either of your parents," may have been his best line of the series.
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Jan 13, 2018 13:51
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Absurd Alhazred posted:What about the episode where Ross was having a relationship with his student and he said "it was frowned upon" but not illegal and then he tells this to some dean or something and get summarily fired? Seems like he was a real creep. Eww yeah. Forgot about the student. The worst Ross storyline is when he can’t cope with Rachel moving on from being a waitress and actually having a career. He belittles her for working in fashion and stalks her because she develops a friendship with a male colleague. When they break up, he spends a long time playing the victim and never really apologises.
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Jan 13, 2018 14:28
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It's a sitcom. George is terrible to everyone on Seinfeld and never apologizes. Remember when George's fiancee died and he didn't give a gently caress? I never saw Bill McNeal apologize either unless it was for his benefit.
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Jan 13, 2018 14:29
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Krispy Wafer posted:Ross would totally be a MRA. Joey is a PUA. Chandler is Incel. Gunther probably posts on 4Chan. Ross would've become famous for being punched out on national television when he appeared at the inauguration of President Biff Tannen representing Men Going Their Own Way.
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Jan 13, 2018 14:33
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Mu Zeta posted:It's a sitcom. George is terrible to everyone on Seinfeld and never apologizes. Remember when George's fiancee died and he didn't give a gently caress? I never saw Bill McNeal apologize either unless it was for his benefit. The tone is totally different, tho. Friends depicts the lives of the characters as much more desirable and aspirational than those on Seinfeld or Newsradio. They're "friends," it's a nice world.
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Jan 13, 2018 14:55
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In Seinfeld the show makes it obvious that everyone is a bad person and they get punished in the finale for it. Friends acts like everyone is great and that Ross and Rachel are some great love. When really Ross is a piece of poo poo who guilts Rachel into giving up her career for him. His only real saving grace is she sucks too. Joey's really the only likeable friend since he's the only one who seems to barely know he's terrible. But I still laugh at a lot of the show because I'm a broke-brained idiot. Rachel answering the door in her wedding dress and scaring away a boyfriend was a great gag.
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Jan 13, 2018 16:35
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And yet people thought and somewhat still think Seinfeld’s characters were good people.
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Jan 13, 2018 16:37
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Arivia posted:And yet people thought and somewhat still think Seinfeld’s characters were good people. The Soup Nazi did nothing wrong.
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Jan 13, 2018 16:48
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MariusLecter posted:The Soup Nazi did nothing wrong. Counterpoint: I saw him at a flea market where he had a table where you could pay thirty bucks for a signed soup ladle, and he spent the whole time clearly annoying a retired porn star who had a table next to him.
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Jan 13, 2018 16:59
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